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It's not our fault Natsuhiko is the worst so-called protagonist.
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Apr 9, 2017 15:07
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CirclMastr posted:It's not our fault Natsuhiko is the worst so-called protagonist. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Hell, I'd be a lot more concerned if everybody else liked Natsuhiko, since I would have no idea why.
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Apr 9, 2017 15:17
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Okay, so was Natsuhiko's memory of being hunted by Watase in the park just another N?
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Apr 9, 2017 15:36
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Glazius posted:Okay, so was Natsuhiko's memory of being hunted by Watase in the park just another N? No, that was real. Q contacted Watase about Natsuhiko and the gang sniffing out their plan and told him, Dojima and Hiyama to deal with it by threatening them as hard as they can, tying them up and hoping that that's enough to scare them off, or if not scare them off, at least keep them away from LABO long enough that they can execute their plan without interference or heightened security coming from some kids coming in and screaming about how Q is planning to attack the place. It at least somewhat worked in that the plan went into action without Natsuhiko and the gang being able to interfere, but them getting stuck in the lower floors of LABO was definitely something they'd rather have avoided.
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Apr 9, 2017 15:41
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Partner: 09/16/2030, 16:10 - Part 2 ♪ BGM: Pose the Question to this World ♫ code:  (If I turn him back into an ''amnesiac rescue worker unaware that he's really a terrorist''--!)--As soon as that idea crossed Natsuhiko's mind-- A feeling in the deepest depths of his mind welled up to refuse it. (!?)That feeling snapped Natsuhiko back to his senses.  Natsuhiko started trembling at the realization of just how terrifying his own thoughts were. (... There's no way I can do that. Even if Watase's a terrorist...!)And besides, inside Watase's brain, Subject N had said this:   A monster, that's what. (That's right. If I erase Watase's memory now... that makes me a ''monster''. So I mustn't... I'm not a monster. I'm a human being...!)Natsuhiko strictly forbade himself from abusing his abilities. Even if he had the power to distort people's memory at will-- there was no way he would ever use that power.  He could not find an answer. (Dammit... I can't think of anything...! At least I can hope that Watase changes his mind between now and until we get out of LABO...)Natsuhiko was frustrated that he could do nothing more. He was honestly not at all confident that he had chosen the right path. As Natsuhiko wallowed in hesitation and hopelessness, Watase called out to him.  Of course I can't accept that. It's just... there's no time to argue about it now. I'll just go along with it for now. The deal's meaningless if we're all dead, after all... ... Anyway, we don't have any time. Let's plan out our next course of action. ...Yeah. I got my memories back now, so let's think things over once more. To come up with a way to ensure everyone's escape, right?The three of them nodded and came face to face. ♪ BGM: Extra-Sensory Perception ♫ To ensure everyone's escape, first we need to do -something- about the ones that went crazy. So first of all, as for the reason why they all went crazy to begin with--It was a mystery up until recently, but now they knew. It's probably safe to assume that Subject N manipulated all of their memories just like she did to you, Captain Kasasagi. Judging from what happened to me, just getting close to that girl is enough for her to rewrite your memories into a jumbled mess and plant malice inside your head. She was an IGF2R Gene Abnormality Type S Communicator whose ability was equal to or perhaps even greater than Natsuhiko's and Yuuri's.   So based on that, when do you think everyone else got infected with Subject N's malice?Watase, his comrades, and the researchers got infected when they encountered Subject N in Area Zero.  Yuuri, about how far do you think Subject N's Senses Sympathy range was? Just a guess, but... probably around 6 m, I think. That's what the professor said a long time ago. 'There's another test subject with stronger abilities', 'her Senses Sympathy range is 6 m'. In the absence of the melt effect, I personally have a range of 1 m at best, so I'd think the limit is maybe around there. I see. So that's how it is... In that case, Subject N shouldn't have been able to manipulate the others' memories from a distance. Just asking, but were there any other Communicators confined in LABO besides you and Subject N, Yuuri? ...No. There were only two test subjects, just like what you learned from Captain Kasasagi's memories. Then the root of the problem must be Subject N, huh... So when were Jun and the others infected with malice?Watase quietly answered Natsuhiko's question. ...I think... I might have a hunch. A hunch? You've seen all of my actions so far, right Natsuhiko? So you should know. We found Subject N's body several hours ago by the cargo lift, remember? All six of us were there at the time. And it was after that when everyone went crazy. The timing fits. But a dead body using BC...? What if Subject N wasn't dead yet? !?Natsuhiko shook his head. That can't be... Ms. Tachibana confirmed her death, didn't she? That's right. Her body was pretty much dead, that's for sure. But what if that was just right after her pulse and other vital signs had ceased... and her consciousness was still barely there? ...Huh?Natsuhiko was surprised for a second-- but then he realized it certainly was a possibility. When using Senses Sympathy, all vital signs drop dramatically. So much so that they could possibly go undetected by the Vital Checker. ...Furthermore, that happened right when it was time for us to administer AD again. In other words, there was a window where 'AD had worn off'. I quickly administered AD to me, Yuuri, and Teach when the time came, but-- Tachibana and the others were busy with CPR, so they injected themselves late. So if you think about it, that would explain why Tachibana, Moribe, and old man Ukita were infected with malice, but the rest of us weren't....So at the verge of death, Subject N used the last of her strength to spread her malice into her surroundings... She was on the verge of death yet she destroyed several people's personalities without letting any of them be aware of it...!? Now I can understand why those high ranked researchers were afraid-- That truly is an 'uncontrollable monster'. Basically, 'Case N' is the code to prevent her escape, right? The N standing for ''Nobody'', or perhaps ''Nucleus''. (She was designated ''Subject N''... truly a fitting name for her.)But what frightened Natsuhiko the most wasn't the strength of her ability. It was Subject N's ''malice'' itself in how it corroded the minds of every human around her. Then, could it be... That the bulkheads are under lockdown not to prevent my escape, but hers...? Yeah... judging by the situation, it does seem very likely.Now that Natsuhiko thought about it, Subject N freely walking around a WX particle irradiated LABO would indeed be the worst case scenario. Without AD, there would be no way to stop her BC. Yuuri, did Mom or anyone else ever mention anything about how dangerous Subject N was? N-no, I haven't heard a thing! I knew I wasn't the only test subject, but... LABO policy prohibits test subjects from meeting each other. I always wanted to meet her since we've grown up in the same environment, but... I never thought she'd be this dangerous...! I see... The reason why you were prohibited contact with Subject N was probably to avoid you getting infected by her malice. Dojima probably got infected by malice-- and shot Subject N in his madness.Now that Watase mentioned it, Natsuhiko remembered the tragic scene they saw in Area 3.  Well, I dunno about them. Maybe some researchers happened to be present when the malice-infected Dojima tried to shoot Subject N, and they tried to stop him-- Or maybe the researchers were infected with malice too, and they all tried to kill each other. Maybe N got away, so he tried to chase her down and kill her? But along the way, his legs broke and he got burned to death...Which would make Subject N the root of his death as well.  If that were the case, then Jun and Ukita could start killing each other too. Everyone was already in a critical situation. Balance was being barely maintained by how the brunt of everyone's anger was directed towards Watase. We need to do something quick...! Yeah. There's also the matter of the bomb set in Area Zero. It's set to go off right after the lockdown lifts. So if we all want to survive, we need to escape as soon as the bulkheads open. I really regret our actions in that regard... There's no point apologizing about it now. Let's focus on finding out how to evacuate everyone safely now.Yuuri spoke in an oddly strict tone of voice for her. It seemed even she could get angry. Watase answered with a bitter look on his face. Sorry. You're right... I plan to do everything I can to ensure our escape. Before the bomb goes off, let's capture everyone, tie them up, and wait for the bulkheads to open. I'd love to... but that seems a little difficult.Carrying several bound people out of LABO seemed like an impossible task.   (But even so, we have to do it...!)Natsuhiko resolved himself. When he looked at Yuuri, she too had a look of determination on her face. ...Hikorin, I'll join you...!Natsuhiko nodded and addressed Watase. Captain Kasasagi... can you bring us to everyone else? Mm, what's your plan? Isn't it obvious? We're going to remove everyone's malice and return them to their original selves. Can you pull it off? That means you'll have to fight that monster that was inside my mind again and again. We don't have a choice. Sure, I'll have to confront her again and again, and my mind may be corroded by the malice... But it's an indispensable step for everyone's escape. I want to save everyone. Not just Yuuri.Watase furrowed his eyebrows at Natsuhiko's answer. I see... but still, there's no need for you two to come with me. I'll leave the shelter alone and bring everyone here. You'll what? It's suicide to walk around the facility with those wounds of yours, and it's dangerous to take Yuuri too. It's best you kids stay here. I see...True enough, nobody else knew about the shelter's existence but Ukita. So long as they captured him, they would be safe in there. ...So basically, you'll take everyone to the shelter and Yuuri and I will remove their malice. We repeat that plan until we've gotten everyone, correct? Exactly.All three of them were necessary for this plan. Natsuhiko, Yuuri, and Watase. If any one of them were to betray the others, the plan would fail. Natsuhiko held that thought as the conversation continued. ...Good grief. Looks like we're in the same boat again, huh. Yeah. If you and I don't cooperate, then the plan to return everyone back to normal's a bust. Yeah. I'm a little concerned that you'll betray us, though...Yuuri tugged on Natsuhiko's sleeve when he said that. It's okay, Hikorin. I'm sure he'll pull through for us. Let's believe in 'Captain Kasasagi'.Natsuhiko's heart ached at those words. Obviously, he understood. He knew that Watase was, by nature, a trustworthy human being. Regardless of his mission or status as a terrorist, he would surely honor his promise to protect Natsuhiko and Yuuri. No, even without that promise, he may have already been considering how to get everyone out of there alive. Natsuhiko sighed and spoke to Watase. ...Hey, Captain Kasasagi. I hate you. What? Shouldn't it be obvious? Though it may be for your mission, there's no way I'd like someone who's going to take Yuuri away. I dove through your memory over and over again to free you from your malice... How ungrateful can you get? ...Maybe you're right. I am thankful for what you've done, and I know the matter with Yuuri is inexcusable. But don't worry. I don't like you either. You mess around inside people's heads and change things however you please... Do you know how much trouble you put me through? Sure. I saw how hard you worked. I saw everything. But you had it coming, you know? Mmgh... I guess you're right. I kinda stirred up a hornet's nest there.The two of them faintly smiled as they held that conversation. They were badmouthing each other, yet there was a somewhat friendly mood between them. --Right now, Natsuhiko and Watase were completely mismatched. But there was something they needed to do that neither of them could do alone. Something they needed to join forces to do. And as they shared in that joint role, they both shared a smile. ...Captain Kasasagi. From here on out, we're equals. Let's each fulfill our roles to the best of our ability. Of course. Oh, and... drop the formalities. Let's be casual here.At Watase's request, Natsuhiko responded in the tone he had always been using when speaking inside Watase's head. Got it... We're counting on you, 'Watase'. Yeah, leave it to me.And with that exchange, Natsuhiko and Watase made a firm handshake.  VIDEO: Root Double -Before Crime * After Days- - Intro: Route Double  You know, this game sure likes pegging certain points as ''and now we really start'' with these intro videos. So once again, the real Root Double starts here.
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Apr 9, 2017 15:48
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So, if there was a bomb in Area Zero that would destroy LABO... why didn't it go off in the Route A 'Normal' Ending? There was no mention of it anywhere, despite mentioning the people who died in Area Zero.
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Apr 9, 2017 16:26
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Reread "Nightmare's end":TheMcD posted:
A bomb seems like a pretty good explanation for what hosed Watase up so hard.
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Apr 9, 2017 16:32
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Nightmare's end: 09/16/2030, 18:15 posted:a ''Case N'' was declared inside LABO. What happened within LABO's walls after that remains largely a mystery. But Sirius communication logs reveal that at the very least, three squad members were conducting rescue efforts as late as 12:20 PM. Then at 6:17 PM, a large-scale explosion occurred in LABO’s core. Two minutes later, the bulkhead that partitioned the surface and basement areas of LABO opened up. Die Zauberflöte: The Magic Flute: 09/16/2030, 07:14 posted:
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Apr 9, 2017 16:35
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...could N's powers be activated on a delay, like a post-hypnotic suggestion? The Subject N in Watase's head was "alive", for the given value of that word, and messed him up pretty bad. Maybe she planted something in Kazami, Ukita and Jun's head that said "Go nutso when I, Subject N, die"?
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Apr 9, 2017 18:08
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TheMcD posted:Reread "Nightmare's end": ...then why were they still able to find the bodies in one piece? Why didn't it 'destroy LABO' as advertised? Why did Watase survive? Haifisch posted:The bomb went off at the right time(1817/6:17pm), but the lockdown was lifted after the explosion for some reason. Also this, I forgot that part, but I figured if there was a bomb it would've hit the people going in--but it didn't Edit: Also... if Watase was told about the whole 'rage virus' effect being possible before even going into LABO, why didn't he believe the doctor that warned him about that very thing happening, and why was he so surprised that it happened? DMW45 fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 21:05
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In case anyone's not reading carefully, the video at the end is a new OP for this route, not the same one we've seen before.
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Apr 9, 2017 22:46
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Junpei posted:...could N's powers be activated on a delay, like a post-hypnotic suggestion? The Subject N in Watase's head was "alive", for the given value of that word, and messed him up pretty bad. Maybe she planted something in Kazami, Ukita and Jun's head that said "Go nutso when I, Subject N, die"? Probably she could, but she probably is alive given we haven't seen her body since it disappeared. Haifisch posted:The bomb went off at the right time(1817/6:17pm), but the lockdown was lifted after the explosion for some reason. I haven't checked back yet, but wasn't that the plan? The bomb goes off before Lockdown ends so that when they come in there's nothing to find, and to prevent others from dying? BenRGamer posted:...then why were they still able to find the bodies in one piece? Why didn't it 'destroy LABO' as advertised? Why did Watase survive? Watase may have survived because of how close he was to the exit bulkheads. LABO, as a BC facility, would have been rendered useless by the bomb detonating so close to Areas N and Zero. As for the bodies, well that makes less sense, but they don't need to be in one piece to be recognizable and they don't even need to be all that recognizable (Example: "These mangled corpses look like female rescue workers." "Which one is Moribe and Tachibana?" "The file says Moribe was the short one...") As for why Watase was surprised by N, the scientists were rather vague about why it would be bad to release her and then it was too late.
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Apr 10, 2017 08:44
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OddHaberdasher posted:I haven't checked back yet, but wasn't that the plan? The bomb goes off before Lockdown ends so that when they come in there's nothing to find, and to prevent others from dying? The plan was for the bomb to go off one minute after lockdown lifted to enable the scientists they needed to drag to Area Zero to escape before it blew.
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Apr 10, 2017 14:01
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BenRGamer posted:...then why were they still able to find the bodies in one piece? Why didn't it 'destroy LABO' as advertised? Why did Watase survive? For the first one, I'm guessing they didn't find the bodies in one piece. There's ways to identify bodies that have been burnt to a crisp - dental records are a big one. And you'd bet that a town like Rokumei City has dental records on every single person within its reach. LABO didn't exactly get blown sky high, but all the BC research facilities, which by necessity were all underground, got their poo poo hosed up royally. It was more of a metaphorical destruction than a literal one. Finally, like OddHaberdasher said, the likely answer to Watase surviving is that he was at the furthest possible point from the explosion. So instead of getting burnt to literal death, he just got burnt to legal death. BenRGamer posted:Also this, I forgot that part, but I figured if there was a bomb it would've hit the people going in--but it didn't I'm not quite sure how Watase and the gang wanted to solve the conundrum of "we want everybody that might still be in the underground floors to get out, but also nobody on the above ground floors to get in". I can only estimate the idea was that they would tell the researchers that they planted a bomb and how they could survive by being right at the bulkheads when they open and then getting the gently caress out of Dodge, preferably screaming "HOLY poo poo THERE'S A BOMB AND IT'S GOING TO BLOW GET THE gently caress OUT". It's kind of a lovely situation. BenRGamer posted:Edit: Also... if Watase was told about the whole 'rage virus' effect being possible before even going into LABO, why didn't he believe the doctor that warned him about that very thing happening, and why was he so surprised that it happened? Given that he really hated LABO, even without the rage virus, he might have just interpreted that as the researchers trying to trick him somehow. ArashiKurobara posted:The plan was for the bomb to go off one minute after lockdown lifted to enable the scientists they needed to drag to Area Zero to escape before it blew. And yeah, you folks just stumbled on one of the mysteries in Route Double, which I might as well just confirm as something that we'll run into later: The bomb was supposed to go off one minute *after* the lockdown lifted, but it will in fact go off *before* the lockdown lifts. You can actually take a stab at why that is, though you'd have to think quite a bit about it, given that we haven't even run into the problem yet.
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Apr 10, 2017 17:34
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TheMcD posted:And yeah, you folks just stumbled on one of the mysteries in Route Double, which I might as well just confirm as something that we'll run into later: The bomb was supposed to go off one minute *after* the lockdown lifted, but it will in fact go off *before* the lockdown lifts. You can actually take a stab at why that is, though you'd have to think quite a bit about it, given that we haven't even run into the problem yet. It's probably somehow Ukita's fault.
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Apr 10, 2017 17:50
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Lady in the dark: 09/16/2030, 16:19 ♪ BGM: LABO Security Lv. 2 ♫  He figured he'd need a weapon for self-defense since he didn't known what dangers were lurking out there. Natsuhiko had been a bit reluctant, but he ultimately complied.  Just to reiterate, you guys mustn't leave here at all. We don't know for sure who's been infected with malice, so we don't know what thoughts are driving them either. Consider everyone except me to be an enemy. ...Yeah, I know. The shelter door only opens if you punch in the password from the inside. And we're not gonna be dumb enough to do that unless you call for us.--Natsuhiko was no longer speaking formally with Watase. (... Well, I guess this is just how he normally talks to people.)Besides, it would have been weird for him to treat Watase with respect when he's the terrorist who attacked Yuuri and shot him and Mashiro. It felt odd to Watase having kids their age treat him like an equal, but this way probably fit Watase and Natsuhiko's relationship better anyway. ...Okay, I'll be counting on you, Watase. Make sure you keep your promise with Yuuri. Of course. Okay then, I'm off now. Take care of Yuuri.Watase was about to run past the steel door when he heard a voice call out to him from behind. Um, Captain Kasasagi. Hmm? ...Please be careful, okay? ...Yeah.Watase gave a wry smile and left the shelter.  (Keep your promise, huh...)It went without saying that Watase intended to do so. He never planned on getting others involved with this terrorist plot to begin with. Since he was the one who inadvertently dragged everyone into this mess, he had a responsibility to get them out of the facility safely. But he had qualms about his mission to take Yuuri away with him once they had escaped. It was true that he would have caused this whole incident for absolutely nothing if he didn't bring at least one test subject back. Then the Rokumei City government's wrongdoings would never come to light, and their cover-ups would just continue unabated. But was Yuuri really okay with going with him? And what about Natsuhiko? Naturally, there was no chance in hell he wanted that.  But that was all in the future. For now, all he had to think about was living up to his word with Natsuhiko and keeping his promise with Yuuri.  Much like him, Dojima and Hiyama had also brought guns into the facility. If no one had picked them up yet, that meant they were still lying around somewhere. Watase headed to Area 3 with that thought in mind.   He hadn't yet examined the place in detail. The room was littered with the bodies of Dojima and the two unknown researchers, unmoved from where he had seen them last. All the blood staining the place had completely dried up and turned black. A dull yet fierce pain stung at Watase's heart when he saw the wretched form of his friend. Dojima...!Watase started to break out into choked sobs. When Watase had amnesia, he hadn't felt the sorrow of having lost his best friend of ten years, but now it burst through like a waterfall.  It wasn't long before their junior Hiyama joined in, and with their similar pasts, the three of them became brothers in arms who understood each other well. And now they were both dead-- Dojima's body lay before him, with Hiyama's only an area away... But no matter how painful their loss was, now was not the time for grief. ...Dojima, Hiyama... I'll carry on your dying wishes. I will make sure that they're fulfilled...!Watase muttered that and looked up. He then endured his sorrow and began diligently searching the room. It wasn't long before he found two pistols lying around-- one in the corner of the room, the other under the desk.  (But... they're both out of bullets, huh.)Dojima and Hiyama, infected with malice, had likely used up all their bullets on the researchers. And yet in spite of that, Subject N had gotten away. (I guess the malice contagion causes you to lose your composure too... ... But you couldn't help it, could you, Dojima? We're rescue workers... We never learned how to kill people.)Watase looked at the corner of the room with those bitter thoughts in mind. The broken jackhammer was sitting there. It was essential to their plan to escape through the pipe.  They wouldn't make it in time before the bomb went off. (If worse comes to worst... do we need to find another escape route aside from the pipe?)But where could they even find one? Watase exited the corpse-littered room as he left that thought in a corner of his mind.  He then stomped on them with all his might with his safety boots, destroying both the guns and the magazines. That way, he didn't have to worry about someone picking one up later and misusing it.  It was a silver lining that not many people there had gotten their hands on guns. Now that he neutralized the threat those guns posed, Watase decided it was finally time to start searching for the people infected with malice. (All right, the first one I should catch is old man Ukita. This place is huge though, so to find him--) If he used those, he could gain a slightly better idea of what was going on in the facility at the moment. He headed off for the surveillance room with that thought.  His greatest fear was Ukita suddenly shooting him from a distance. But it'd actually be advantageous for Watase if he was able to physically spot Ukita first. (It'll probably take him time to reload bullets too... I should just run up to him and throw him to the floor.)Watase had trained in martial arts ever since he joined Q. Now that his memories were back, he fully remembered how to use all those skills. (Never thought I'd have to use them on the old man, though.)He finished descending the staircase when he thought that.  ♪ BGM: Ominous Ambience ♫ Watase heard a familiar voice.  ...sagi is with you too!? No, he's a traitor--... !!He heard voices apparently coming from a room right next to the staircase-- the surveillance room. (Those voices... isn't that the old man and Teach!? poo poo, Teach is in danger!)Watase frantically clashed for the door to the surveillance room and opened it up. Stop it, old man! Don't hurt Te--...!? ♪ BGM: Evil and Nightmares ♫ Watase gasped before he completed his sentence. He had been rendered speechless by the most unexpected scene unfolding before him. !! !!Ena and Ukita turned around in surprise. It wasn't Ukita who was attacking Ena-- it was -Ena- who was pointing a gun at Ukita. (Wh-what the hell!? What's going on!?) Captain Kasasagi... you...!Ena glared at Watase with hostility. (She's gonna shoot!?)Watase drew his body back in surprise--  Wha... the hell was that all about!?Watase stood there in shock. Just then, Ukita started talking to him in a low voice. ...That woman wasn't a mere teacher at all. What? I tried to take her magazine from her, but then she ended up stealing the gun from me... Then she threatened me. She said 'tell me everything you know right now or I'll shoot to kill'. ...!♪ BGM: Approaching Death ♫ Her intent to kill was the real thing. Next thing I knew, I was confessing everything to her... All about the terrorist plot and how you betrayed us halfway through! The plan's a failure! It's all over thanks to you!Ukita lunged at Watase as he shouted that. Wha-!? You've got a gun too, right!? Give to me right now! That woman is probably an assassin sent by LABO! If we don't hunt her down and kill her now, she'll kill us!Ukita tried to steal Watase's gun with bloodshot eyes. It was clear he was completely possessed by madness. (--Dammit, is this also the malice's influence!?)Watase dodged around Ukita with little effort and circled behind him. He then wrapped his arm around the old man's neck and squeezed. Kahh...!It was a sleeper hold-- a technique to render someone powerless without actually harming them. ...--Ukita's arms soon dangled limply. Phew... this should be fine, right, Natsuhiko?Watase sighed heavily and picked up Ukita. He then ran back for the shelter.
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Apr 10, 2017 18:32
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Okay, nice. One down. It'll be interesting to find out what Ukita's deal is.
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Apr 10, 2017 23:18
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Ah, a remind that we still don't know what's up with Teach. What does she want?
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Apr 10, 2017 23:33
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Odd that she pretty much owned Ukita here, but straight up died in the normal ending. Still! Progress!
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Apr 11, 2017 17:35
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NINE YEARS WORTH OF CONVERSATION: 09/16/2030, 16:23 ♪ BGM: LABO Security Lv. 3 ♫  Mashiro was groaning in pain.  U-ugh....! Mashiron looks like she's in pain, huh... ...Yeah.Natsuhiko was frustrated at being powerless to help her. There were so many things he wanted to talk about when she woke up. He wanted to tell her that Yuuri was alive.  (This is what it must have felt like to watch me stupefied, unable to wake up.)That incident had shattered their daily lives. Natsuhiko became stupefied once he was told of Yuuri's death, and when he woke up, he started to see a phantom-- The three kids who had once been together had become distanced in many ways. (But after such a long time, we're finally all together again. And yet...)Mashiro had watched over Natsuhiko until his time of awakening came. And now, Mashiro was the one lying down, wakeless. What if, before Mashiro woke up-- Watase handed Yuuri over to Q and she was taken away somewhere? Those two best friends might never meet again. ...Yuuri, are you sure you're okay with it? Yeah. At this rate, that might mean you'll have to part with Mashiro too, you know? Just how sad would it make her to hear about everything after the fact...?Yuuri suddenly sighed in reply. You know, Hikorin... I'm sure it might make Mashiron sad, but sadness is only temporary, you know? Huh? Well, I'm sure she'll have mixed feelings about knowing that I'm alive. Wh-why's that!? ... She loves you so much, she risked her life to come with you all the way to LABO. But if I were to suddenly appear and steal you away after all of that, then even Mashiron would get mad. H-hey, hold on, Yuuri... Of course, the deal with Captain Kasasagi was to ensure everyone got saved. But it's also a good opportunity for me to back off, too. With me out of the way, you and Mashiron can be together. Yeah. So it really is the best course of-- What are you saying, idiot?Natsuhiko couldn't bear to listen anymore, so he interrupted her. I-... idiot!?Yuuri's eyes widened. It was understandable. That was the very first time Natsuhiko had ever badmouthed her. But nonetheless, Natsuhiko hardened his heart and continued. ...Yuuri, don't you know? Don't you know just how much Mashiro loved you? Do you know how much it pained her heart to learn that you had died? But... that was ages ago. Who cares about a dead friend who's been gone for nine whole years? Besides, Mashiron's a way, way, more amazing girl than me... There's no way a girl like her would care about someone like me forever... After all, Mashiron's so cute, and cheerful, and popular with all the boys-- None of that matters to her, and you know it, don't you? ...Yuuri pouted her lips. It was a conversation nine years in the making. Natsuhiko and Yuuri were speaking not through BC, but with their own voices. Not through lies and falsehoods, but from the heart.  You're not just some '9-year-dead friend' to her at all. She still cares about you. There's no way in hell that Mashiro would be upset to learn you're alive. So please stop this nonsense about backing off for Mashiro's sake... I'm sure that's actually the one thing she'd hate the most. ... But...Yuuri looked more and more confused. Natsuhiko sighed. ...Say, Yuuri. Can you please drop the mindset that 'it's okay if I suffer as long as nobody else has to'? Huh? I'm not just talking about the thing with Mashiro. You're like that with Watase's deal too. You were confined here for nine years, and at the end of all of that, you fall into Q's hands... You're not okay with that, are you? I don't want you to go through that again. I want to set you free.Once Natsuhiko had said all that-- Yuuri smiled ever so slightly. ...If only. If only I could go outside, bask in the light of the sun, and walk freely in the park... I'm sure it'd be fun. If only I could go on a trip somewhere with you, and Mashiron, and Salyu, and the professor too. Then--Yuuri interrupted Natsuhiko when he tried to speak. But I can't. Even if we disregard Mashiron's feelings, I really still can't be with you guys. Wh... why not? Because I'm a test subject. LABO has their eye on me. ...! You don't know just how frightening LABO can be. They're an institution that's confined people for years on end, you know? They could even be above the police for all we know. Even if you stood against LABO as an individual, you'd have no chance to succeed, Hikorin. Only organizations can oppose organizations... So you see, that's why... if I want to leave here, then I have no choice but to let Q take custody of me.Natsuhiko was speechless in light of Yuuri's sad words. Now he understood why she had been so obstinate. She didn't want to get Natsuhiko or Mashiro involved. (But still... in the end... that still means Yuuri has to endure suffering all by herself, doesn't it!?)Once that thought crossed Natsuhiko's mind-- he suddenly heard a sound coming from outside the shelter door. !? Who's there!? It's me. Please open up.It was Watase. Relieved, Natsuhiko input the password on the keypad beside the door. And soon enough, the iron door opened and Watase appeared.  ♪ BGM: LABO Security Lv. 2 ♫ Watase was carrying a limp Ukita under his arm. Mr. Ukita! Relax, he's just unconscious.Watase gently laid Ukita down on the floor. And sure enough, Ukita had not a single visible wound. Natsuhiko was unsure how exactly Watase had apprehended him, but-- (It couldn't have been easy to apprehend someone who had a gun without hurting them, could it...?) Well, now you see exactly what my stance is, don't you? ...Watase.Watase had kept his promise with Yuuri. ''Evacuate everyone safely.'' It seemed Watase was striving to make sure nobody got hurt during the process, either. (drat... I'm not sure if this guy's got integrity or what...)While Natsuhiko found himself at a loss for words, Yuuri spoke for him. Um, Captain Kasasagi... thank you for keeping your promise. ...Hmph.Watase looked uncomfortable and just turned up his nose. ...Anyway, if you're gonna do it, then just do it already. That, uh, malice erasure thing. There's no doubt that the monster's screwing around inside the old man's head. He'll probably go berserk again the moment he wakes up. And that's definitely gonna be a pain. Y-yeah.Natsuhiko had seen a deranged Ukita up close too. He was no doubt infected with malice. (But I won't do something as crude as a full memory erasure anymore...!)That was the decision Natsuhiko had made. So he would erase ''only'' the malice within Ukita, in the same way he had done with Watase. ...Okay. Yuuri. This time, let's start off by accessing and repairing just the 'floral-scented memories' from the get-go. And then we'll erase Subject N's spirit. Huh? Are you sure? That sounds a little different from the process we used for Captain Kasasagi, though... I want to minimize reading other people's memories to only what's absolutely necessary. I'm sure even Mr. Ukita wouldn't like it if we just peeked into his mind without permission, you know?That was something Natsuhiko had been prohibiting himself from doing. But in response to that answer, Watase said-- ...I see. So you're prohibiting yourself from abusing your abilities, huh. I admire that intention of yours, kid... but I think it's dangerous. Dangerous? Why? Just erasing his malice doesn't necessarily make him safe, does it? What? Mr. Ukita's one of your comrades, isn't he? You don't believe in him? That's not what I'm talking about. It's just, there's honestly a lot about the old man as a person that I don't understand. I know I'm not one to talk, but there's just way too much about the old man's behavior that's suspicious. Like how he tied up Yuuri. So don't you think it's worth checking out what's been driving him, just to make sure? Mmm...It was a little unexpected for Watase to say such a thing despite not being a Communicator. But Yuuri spoke in support of that opinion as well. ...Hikorin, I can understand why you'd have qualms about doing it, but don't you think it'd be best if we did a proper check of Mr. Ukita's past? Huh? I get the feeling that repairing the falsified memories will require as deep an understanding of Mr. Ukita as possible. Or else we'll have no way of knowing for sure if the memories have been properly repaired or not... ...That's true.Watase and Yuuri made sound arguments. Though it was important to know the dangers of his ability, it might have been more dangerous to fixate on such moral issues. Perhaps he should follow Watase's and Yuuri's suggestion.   VOTING Well, that didn't take long. Once again, we have a pretty crucial decision to be making. Natsuhiko doesn't want to be diving too deeply into Ukita's memories, but Watase and Yuuri disagree. Their arguments seem pretty sound, but something they didn't quite mention is that spending more time spent paging through memories is more time spent exposed to Subject N's mindfucking. Last time was a pretty close call, and we still don't really know whether continued exposure to Subject N will make Natsuhiko more vulnerable. This time, our decision will be made based on whether we favor Natsuhiko or favor Ukita. Which option means what is once again left as an exercise for the viewer. Choose wisely.
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Apr 11, 2017 18:31
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Don't make me choose between the villain and the worst protagonist 
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Apr 11, 2017 18:42
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CirclMastr posted:Don't make me choose between the villain and the worst protagonist I do like this choice as a response to you pretty much unanimously picking Watase the last two rounds. "Oh, that how you want to play it? Well, here, pick between Natsuhiko and Ukita now! HA!"
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Apr 11, 2017 19:01
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Ukita Let's see what his deal is. Natsuhiko's totally justified qualms will lead us to a bad end because  so ukita it is.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:12
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Yeah I'm saying Ukita because the moral of this game is "blind self sacrifice is always the correct choice, especially the more extreme and potentially damaging it is"
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Apr 11, 2017 20:25
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Sorry OP I hate to sound like a spoilsport it's just that the game lost me somewhere around Route Before and it's been sorta bumbling its way towards a conclusion. I just sorta treat the story in the way I'd treat Heroes Rise.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:04
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Favour Natsuhiko, even though it's pretty clear that Keiji Ukita did nothing wrong.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:28
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Ukita, because basically everyone(including Yuuri, who's Always Right for plot reasons) said we should.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:52
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Logicblade posted:it's pretty clear that Keiji Ukita did nothing wrong. : 
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Apr 11, 2017 21:53
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SSNeoman posted:Sorry OP I hate to sound like a spoilsport it's just that the game lost me somewhere around Route Before and it's been sorta bumbling its way towards a conclusion. I just sorta treat the story in the way I'd treat Heroes Rise. As for the vote... geez... so I dislike Natsuhiko and am extremely wary of Ukita, BUT I'm super nosy and wanna know what his deal is. I also don't think the game will let us continue without knowing literally every bit of world-building and backstory possible. So, Ukita I guess.
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Apr 11, 2017 23:05
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If it matters to anyone's vote, it's a yellow branch, not a red one.
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Apr 11, 2017 23:55
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WATASEMANIA: 1 That's what you get for bringing a teacher into the ring Ukita!  Definitely favoring Ukita here. We need to save up our N resistance for potential Teach problems in the future. She's the only one more mysterious than Double Agent Doctor here.
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Apr 12, 2017 00:36
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Ukita, because favoring Natsuhiko always seems like the wrong decision now. dude has terrible judgment and is lucky to have two not-idiots telling him what to do. also, I have to agree that the game sort of lost the plot for a while in Route Before. I guess it doesn't bother people as much who are used to Japanese slice of life stuff and exceptionally long-winded pseudoscience lectures that could be a quarter of the length and be far more understandable. When poo poo starts getting real, it gets interesting again, but it doesn't really pick up until Salyu knocks out the security guard.
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Apr 12, 2017 00:59
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It was a snowball of things. Like I appreciated Route After since I felt it had mature characters (who had their own agendas) and had a steady way of increasing the tension. Like I sort of got how the game put you into the seat of "help Watase survive" and I could dig that. Sure there was ultimately one-ish correct path, but the game did a good job of feeling like there were some consequences to our choices. I felt like Route Before relied way too much railroading. I didn't like how the game sort of forces you to be amicable with Salyu. We knew the character for all of a day, but the game's like "DO YOU TRUST THEM???" Uhhh...no? Gimme a bit more time to get to know her drat. Like if they game you that SSS choice after you found out about her problem, it would be way more fluid and then Natsuhiko would look like he had trust issues if he refused. And the entire route has false choices like this. It's very amateur hour VN mechanics, even if it has plot reasons. I didn't like Mashiro. She just rubbed me the wrong way. She has little personality outside of IS CHILDHOOD FRIEND, IS ANIME FAN and WIFE MATERIAL. She was a tomboy during her childhood, but she apparently stopped because she grew up? Why? Cause of Natsuhiko? Does she feel guilty about what she is doing to Natsuhiko? Cause if so, then the game should show that. She just feels like a character who was constructed less as a character within a story, but a character written around anime tropes. I also have a hard time pinning down the personalities of these three. They're supposed to be kids, but then they're like "so are you aware of social/psychological experiments such as the Milgrim case?" This has less to do with Salyu and more with Nats and Mash. Speaking of which, the game is pairing the two hard but I just cannot see how they could become a couple. And don't say "well they were together for years" because that's a boring cop-out. The two share little in common. She never stands up for Natsuhiko, she never takes his side and he always seems to be dragged into her half-baked ideas. And the game takes her side when she does. Mashiro assisted Miyako in lying to Natsuhiko which should be a cause of a major rift between them even if Mashiro was in the right (I'm still not convinced she was btw). It's the same problem I have with Remember Me; the story really glosses the gently caress over the MCs actions which rather drastically change people's lives and motivations. Here it's even worse because not only is Natsuhiko just accepting this, he's treating it as a point of affection. The twist is loving laughable. I'm sorry but I seriously find it absurd to the point of shooting into straight up humor territory. Yuuri was actually a fragment of Natsuhiko's madness! Except no she's actually real and has been modifying Natsuhiko's memory for years! You can't do that. No story survives this sort of twist whiplash. You can't have a character dramatically fade away and then pop out a few seconds later saying "I'm okay that was actually my twin brother lol" Like I wasn't on board with the whole "family therapy" thing (this is a sticking point for me still cause goddamn) but every new revelation just served to make the twist more convoluted and sillier. This was clearly a focal point of the story and it wasn't nearly as dramatic as the revelation that Kazami was Watase's girlfriend. This was a series of revelations that should have come as barrage of shocks to Natsuhiko, but he just sort of accepts it. We still probably have the Gradual Vindication of the Coward Miyako Tenkawa to look forward to, so that'll be nice. The game also started doing two things I hate in Before: flashbacks within flashbacks and worthless CG reuse. Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 01:09
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(My) Reason A Natsu x Mashiro is a great thing:
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Apr 12, 2017 01:15
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SSNeoman posted:I felt like Route Before relied way too much railroading. I didn't like how the game sort of forces you to be amicable with Salyu. We knew the character for all of a day, but the game's like "DO YOU TRUST THEM???" Uhhh...no? Gimme a bit more time to get to know her drat. Like if they game you that SSS choice after you found out about her problem, it would be way more fluid and then Natsuhiko would look like he had trust issues if he refused. And the entire route has false choices like this. It's very amateur hour VN mechanics, even if it has plot reasons. Isn't it suppose to seem really forced? I thought Yuuri trying to manipulate Natsuhiko into trusting Salyu.
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Apr 12, 2017 04:11
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Junpei posted:(My) Reason A Natsu x Mashiro is a great thing:
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Apr 12, 2017 04:37
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:Man, out of context this is a seriously creepy image. But in context it's super heartwarming.
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Apr 12, 2017 05:06
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I'm still really invested and interested in where this is going, but Route After will probably where my fondest memories of the game lies
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Apr 12, 2017 05:28
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Mraagvpeine posted:Isn't it suppose to seem really forced? I thought Yuuri trying to manipulate Natsuhiko into trusting Salyu. Doesn't matter. If it's not engaging then it's just boring to be strung along till the conclusion. Nothing stopped them from adding some branches. You don't instantly trust Salyu? K. We'll give the the scene where she tries to play nice and tries to get your trust. You do trust Salyu? You get the scene where the trio walk to school together and Natsuhiko might open up about something. Hell I'd argue that making the route a kinetic novel would work better. Or, better yet, have the game automatically show SSS input to show how it's now out of the player's control. Or even better, have the player put in the SSS, but then suddenly *static* and the SSS is different, pull the rug out from under them. Spatula City posted:also, I have to agree that the game sort of lost the plot for a while in Route Before. I guess it doesn't bother people as much who are used to Japanese slice of life stuff and exceptionally long-winded pseudoscience lectures that could be a quarter of the length and be far more understandable. When poo poo starts getting real, it gets interesting again, but it doesn't really pick up until Salyu knocks out the security guard. SoL VNs are hard to do well, especially if you don't really have a goal like getting more dokis. This was okay. There were a lot of background details I liked, the side characters and stories gave the world flavor and the world building was there, but the characters were simply too weak to carry the game till the plot could kick in. Junpei posted:But in context it's super heartwarming. Is it though? He just found out his friend has been propagating a lie that's been keeping him alive. And he's trying to sacrifice himself to save her when she refuses to leave out of her own stubbornness. I get why he did that, but I think it was more of the tension of the moment rather than Natsuhiko's actual feelings. going d'aww over it is a bit premature. Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 11:51
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SSNeoman posted:Or even better, have the player put in the SSS, but then suddenly *static* and the SSS is different, pull the rug out from under them. That's... a bad idea and would actively push people away if you did it more than once.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:45
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