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Snak posted:It all depends who they get to write it. The main writer for Arise, Tow Ubukata, has almost nothing else under his belt. Kazuchika Kise, who was the chief director for 3/4 of Arise hasn't directed anything other than Arise and is primarily an artist. My major problem with Aramaki isn't that he's got an unique style (especially with transforming motorcycles) or he uses CG. It's that the writing on the Appleseed films is poor. Like, how many times are you going to trot out those spider gun platforms? I mean, the last book had a giant robot power armor piloted by a cyborg!
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Apr 11, 2017 17:22
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Shinji Aramaki did not write any of the Appleseed films. Alpha is the weakest, for the reason you state. Its's a really dull retcon preboot. Appleseed (2004) was written by Haruka Handa and Tsutomu Kamishiro. Neither one has done any particularly notable work. Appleseed Ex Machina (2007) was written by Kiyoto Takeuchi and Todd Weinger. again, not particularly notable. Appleseed Alpha (2014) was written by Marianne Krawczyk, the (former) lead writer for the God of War games. Considering that, I am not worried about Shinji Aramaki's involvement with GitS at all, since he wasn't involved in the parts of Appleseed that were lame.
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Apr 11, 2017 17:32
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I would like to see something new in the GITS verse. You know just saying.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:31
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cosmically_cosmic posted:I would like to see something new in the GITS verse. You know just saying. Yeah, it would be really cool to do a new story and not a treatment of an old one.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:36
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The remakes will continue until ratings improve!
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Apr 11, 2017 22:57
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A live action American GITS set in the American Empire would be fine. It was them who created 2501 anyway, and they have a big part in a bunch of the plots of GITS. Then you don't even need to make excuses about how you decided to put the main characters brain in a white lady after you couldn't get the Asian one you wanted.
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Apr 12, 2017 05:18
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cosmically_cosmic posted:A live action American GITS set in the American Empire would be fine. It was them who created 2501 anyway, and they have a big part in a bunch of the plots of GITS. Then you don't even need to make excuses about how you decided to put the main characters brain in a white lady after you couldn't get the Asian one you wanted. cosmic, my friend, that movie would have exactly as little excuse for not featuring a POC star as any other North American film.
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Apr 12, 2017 12:58
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"We heard your complaints about whitewashing and we decided the best way to fix it was to move the sequel to a different continent, an even bigger sweeping change to the narrative just to avoid having an asian star. The greater the lengths we go to the more okay it is, right?"
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Apr 12, 2017 13:31
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No if they did a full out US remake of it like The Magnificent Seven or The Departed I wouldn't care as much about who they cast as the Kusanagi equivalent character. But if it's in the US I'd obviously also expect a very diverse cast overall.
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Apr 12, 2017 14:26
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Move it to south Africa, have all characters be white Afrikaans-speaking people.
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Apr 12, 2017 14:50
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Mithaldu posted:Move it to south Africa, have all characters be white Afrikaans-speaking people. Yolandi as the Major and Ninja as Batou?
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Apr 12, 2017 15:16
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It must be a godammned nightmare doing an adaptation and finding a balance between making the text novel and fresh and constructing a space within it where you can express yourself artistically but not going so far as to lose those aspects that made the original so memorable. Especially if the project is being pushed by producers and you only get called in to work on one aspect or one stage of the production. It must especially suck for those writers who get called in to make another pass at a script knowing that several guys have already tried and failed and no matter how much blood sweat and tears they put into their version of the script it's also likely to get dumped. .... and then there's projects like I, Robot which started out as a totally unrelated scifi murder mystery but then the studio got the licence to Asimov's books and went "Oh, just change the title and make a few nods to the books if you can and we'll just say that it was 'inspired' by Asimov's work." And then they hired Will Smith to star in it so they brought in a new scriptwriter to rewrite it to suit him and the guy who originally came up with the script and developed it for years and years with several studios ended up with just a "screen story by" credit, and the original idea he came up with a decade before the movie came out never got made.
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Apr 12, 2017 15:38
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Wasn't the original guy's concept for I, Robot also that it would function as like an intro the setting of an eventual Neuromancer movie? It really will never get made.
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Apr 12, 2017 15:57
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Neo Rasa posted:No if they did a full out US remake of it like The Magnificent Seven or The Departed I wouldn't care as much about who they cast as the Kusanagi equivalent character. But if it's in the US I'd obviously also expect a very diverse cast overall. Right - that's what K.Waste is mocking . It's not about 'whitewashing' at all, but about unexamined notions of (in this case) ethno-national purity. This means Japanese characters belong in Japan, and Japanese characters do not belong in America because America is multicultural and therefore Japanese identity is subordinate to American identity. It is even more regressive! Authentic criticism of whitewashing would involve asking: why can't David Fincher's Seven have an all-Asian cast? Why can't Epic Movie? Authentic criticism would also celebrate the 'progressive' casting in movies that you dislike - like Catwoman or Ballistic: Ecks Versus Sever. This never happens because, again, the complaints are actually based on weird psychosexual hangups and not any sort of egalitarian project.
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Apr 12, 2017 15:58
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K. Waste posted:cosmic, my friend, that movie would have exactly as little excuse for not featuring a POC star as any other North American film. Umm... You could have POC star? Hell, you could have a black star and it would make more sense than having a white lady leading a Japanese special forces team. And you could go on about how ethno national purity makes it more racist to have your actors playing their actual races instead of putting asian brains in white bodies but I don't buy that.
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Apr 12, 2017 16:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Right - that's what K.Waste is mocking . It's not about 'whitewashing' at all, but about unexamined notions of (in this case) ethno-national purity. True, my expecting a diverse cast in a film set in a diverse place is a weird psychosexual hangup.
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Apr 12, 2017 16:15
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The expectation that any North American film productions will be very diverse overall is empirically incompatible with the U.S. being a white supremacist, capitalist oligarchy. Ghost in the Shell is just a movie. It is commercial film production (and capitalism) overall which is utilitarian-rationalist, racist, sexist, ageist, and ableist.cosmically_cosmic posted:Umm... You could have POC star? Hell, you could have a black star and it would make more sense than having a white lady leading a Japanese special forces team. You are confusing the issue. Nobody has claimed that casting an Asian-American in a starring role is "more racist." What is being claimed is that the speculation about how geographical changes could be used to minimize the controversy - specifically, the visibility of social and economic injustice - is emblematic of reactionary ideology. Having a black star leading a Japanese special forces team only makes more sense than a white lady doing so if you read the signification of race as mutually exclusive from ideology. As with Power Rangers, what matters is what the characters stand for. Otherwise, what we're talking about is just reactionary assimilationism, in which case, the Other still occupies a fraught space that is unilaterally oppressed by dominant ideology.
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Apr 12, 2017 16:27
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K. Waste posted:The expectation that any North American film productions will be very diverse overall is empirically incompatible with the U.S. being a white supremacist, capitalist oligarchy. Ghost in the Shell is just a movie. It is commercial film production (and capitalism) overall which is utilitarian-rationalist, racist, sexist, ageist, and ableist. True, that's just the way it is, no point even talking about or expecting better. Great job.
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Apr 12, 2017 16:28
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Neo Rasa posted:True, that's just the way it is, no point even talking about or expecting better. Great job. I did not say do not expect better and do not talk about it. I'm talking about it right now. What I am pursuing is the radical breaking away of the conception of cinematic arts as forming relationships based on economic advantage and dependence, as opposed to creative and ideological solidarity. Fetishizing celebrities does not cause socioeconomic justice to trickle down to the oppressed. We have to deal with it.
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Apr 12, 2017 16:30
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K. Waste posted:The expectation that any North American film productions will be very diverse overall is empirically incompatible with the U.S. being a white supremacist, capitalist oligarchy. Ghost in the Shell is just a movie. It is commercial film production (and capitalism) overall which is utilitarian-rationalist, racist, sexist, ageist, and ableist. So I guess this is what's it like to post without any context, information, or coherence informing your points? F&F is the most profitable franchise. Minorities make up a disproportionately high percentage of movie goers. Hollywood is currently riding a crest of financially successful minority helmed or starring movies. It's EXACTLY compatible with a capitalist state, and the only reason you would say otherwise is to garner attention by being incredibly and obviously wrong. Also lol at using utilitarian-rationalist (two different ideologies really, though rationalist can mean a lot of things) and reactionary assimilationism, which is also incredibly not a thing, in the same post.
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Apr 12, 2017 16:42
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Right - that's what K.Waste is mocking . It's not about 'whitewashing' at all, but about unexamined notions of (in this case) ethno-national purity. The people who are critical of whitewashing absolutely do both of these, but the backlash is usually pretty severe and the criticism never gets any traction. It's come up recently with the Coen brother's new movie, the new Harry Potter thing, and Tim Burton being Tim Burton. But if Hollywood won't even cast Asian actors into ostensibly Asian roles, maybe getting them to cast Asian actors into neutral roles is a bridge too far for the moment.
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Apr 12, 2017 16:42
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cosmically_cosmic posted:Umm... You could have POC star? Hell, you could have a black star and it would make more sense than having a white lady leading a Japanese special forces team. 1) The film isn't set in Japan. It's set in Hong Kong. 2) Scarlett Johannson is playing her actual race. Ghost In the Shell 2017 is about a white woman. Race is not stored in your brain. If you mean the character's 'actual' race, then Major's race - as Milky Moor pointed out - is 'Anime'. The major in 1995 is specifically designed to be a generic Asian-ish character who is mass-producible and easily marketable to Americans overseas. (Just swap the hairstyles!) If we were to merely translate the anime to live-action, Motoko Kusanagi would look like this:  Squinty posted:The people who are critical of whitewashing absolutely do both of these, but the backlash is usually pretty severe and the criticism never gets any traction. It's come up recently with the Coen brother's new movie, the new Harry Potter thing, and Tim Burton being Tim Burton. But if Hollywood won't even cast Asian actors into ostensibly Asian roles, maybe getting them to cast Asian actors into neutral roles is a bridge too far for the moment. Why are you dialing back your criticism? Going easy on them? SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 16:44
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nsfw that poo poo
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Apr 12, 2017 16:47
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:If you mean the character's 'actual' race, then Major's race - as Milky Moor pointed out - is 'Anime'. The major in 1995 is specifically designed to be a generic Asian-ish character who is mass-producible and easily marketable to Americans overseas. (Just swap the hairstyles!) If we were to merely translate the anime to live-action, Motoko Kusanagi would look like this: Objectively wrong. They intentionally redesigned her for the 1995 movie to not look like this.
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Apr 12, 2017 16:50
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Neo Rasa posted:Objectively wrong. They intentionally redesigned her for the 1995 movie to not look like this. If that was the intention, then they failed. Major's 'parents' are a multinational corporation called Megatech Body. Her race was custom-designed for sale in various markets. We see an identical Woman sitting at a table in Hong Kong. Is that woman originally Chinese? And what is the puppetmaster's origin? It doesn't particularly matter. The advance of computerization is gradually wiping out nations and ethnic groups. These three characters all have the same race: Anime. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 17:00
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The Puppet Master's body in the 95 movie was stolen from a local factory.
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Apr 12, 2017 17:03
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Snak posted:The Puppet Master's body in the 95 movie was stolen from a local factory. Puppetmaster comes from 'the net' and chooses to incarnate as a blonde, blue-eyed, and pale-skinned Anime.
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Apr 12, 2017 17:06
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:If that was the intention, then they failed. Major's 'parents' are a multinational corporation called Megatech Body. Her race was custom-designed for sale in various markets. Weird I feel like I've heard this line of thought somewhere... http://perezhilton.com/2017-03-28-scarlett-johansson-gma-interview-ghost-in-the-shell-whitewashing-planned-parenthood-politics
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Apr 12, 2017 17:15
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K. Waste posted:You are confusing the issue. Except I was talking about an American GITS film being set in the American Empire, theoretically about sections 9's American Empire equivelent. So it wouldn't be a black person leading a Japanese special forces team, it would be an American leading an American team in a take on the GITS universe (Which I don't really see anything wrong with, as much as you can argue that the very act of American's making anything is inherently racist or whatever).
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Apr 12, 2017 17:15
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Neo Rasa posted:Weird I feel like I've heard this line of thought somewhere... Right: Ghost In The Shell 2017 presents harsh criticism of white supremacist ideology, where white is the 'natural' default. The character tears her skin off at the end. Ghost in the Shell 1995 did the same basic thing, by making the Satanic embodiment of the entire internet blonde, blue-eyed and extremely pale. The advance of computerization is gradually wiping out nations and ethnic groups. This is a bad thing. The internet is white supremacist. The same point was made in the Transformers films. The aliens scanned the entire internet to form their identities, and emerged as American car commercials.
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Apr 12, 2017 17:27
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An adaptation like Edge of Tomorrow would have done more to obscure the problem of whitewashing, and thus lessen the controversy. But it doesn't address the problem of how whitewashed cinema is. It's funny how GITS doesn't even hides its cynicism, and the execs openly blame the whitewashing issue, yet people are coming up with ways to defend it and nonetheless muddy the waters. Are we really, really, really sure ScarJo's character is really really Asian? 
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Apr 12, 2017 17:32
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You're doing a better job of muddying waters by aggressively misrepresenting things.
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Apr 12, 2017 17:34
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Echo Chamber posted:It's funny how GITS doesn't even hides its cynicism, and the execs openly blame the whitewashing issue, yet people are coming up with ways to defend it and nonetheless muddy the waters. Nobody denies that there was a controversy, so I'm not sure what some executives recognizing that there was a controversy has to do with anything.
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Apr 12, 2017 17:40
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Echo Chamber posted:It's funny how GITS doesn't even hides its cynicism, and the execs openly blame the whitewashing issue, yet people are coming up with ways to defend it and nonetheless muddy the waters. You are confusing depiction with endorsement, and confusing the artwork with the corporation that produced it. Nobody is defending the corporation. The 1995 and 2017 films both depict the character as a product of white supremacy. Neither film endorses white supremacy. (Except, perhaps, unwittingly in the case of the 1995 film.)  Ghost In the Shell 1995 predicted this.
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Apr 12, 2017 17:59
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Shageletic posted:So I guess this is what's it like to post without any context, information, or coherence informing your points? Your post is weighted heavily by fallacy. F&F is just a movie. It being profitable does not trickle down to moviegoers. Rather, it fundamentally concentrates capital and the fruit of labor within a pre-established, classist hierarchy, which still lives and dies on the pretense of economic profitability, not justice. Minorities making up a disproportionate number of consumers says nothing about their quality of life. This is akin to the right wing meme that 'Asian-Americans are more successful than white Americans!' Meanwhile, you can just go to any place where there is a high concentration of Asian-Americans and see that the struggle is real. Assimilationism is conservative ideology, framing the acculturation of the Other as the logical, neutral progression of Manifest Destiny.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:08
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Donnerberg posted:I should see Speedracer since people talk warmly about it in this thread, but I've wanted a Hollywood version of Redline for a while now. I assume I'll be disappointed that Speedracer is not that. ...and I'm pretty sure if I wait a couple more years, Fast and Furious will be cars in space. Speed Racer is a 'big screen, big sound' experience. It's eye-bleedingly colourful and some of the sound work in the races is pretty fantastic. It's also funny, has heart and an amusing business lecture towards the end... I watched Redline and was very impressed by the animation but I don't recall much of the story, I've now overwritten it in my mind with an episode of Space Dandy which was basically the same thing (the title character Dandy even looks like the guy from Redline).
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Apr 13, 2017 00:31
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Okay, you sold me. And Redline's story is just an excuse to have a ridiculous race, so I wouldn't worry about it.
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Apr 13, 2017 04:44
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Speed Racer is fantastic.
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Apr 13, 2017 04:46
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Donnerberg posted:Okay, you sold me. Redline's plot is almost non-existent, but there are important things going on it it besides just looking cool. It's basically one big paean to cooperation, expressed through sci-fi racecars (and barely veiled references to orgasm.  )
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Apr 13, 2017 05:49
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Snak posted:Speed Racer is fantastic. It's true and I go back to read Film Crit Hulk's view of it every now and again simply because they're basically a love story to the movie  http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/03/27/film-crit-hulk-smash-speed-racer-as-artist http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2013/11/20/hulks-favorite-movies-speed-racer-2008
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Apr 13, 2017 10:40
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