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Keetron posted:Yeah, buying a new car is stupid in any scenario. Always buy used. No. Buy a new boat.
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Apr 11, 2017 05:46
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The Fool posted:No. Buy a new boat. No, buy a RV. Housing is expensive 
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Apr 11, 2017 13:24
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Just finished my first day it was awesome. Little confused though. My boss doesn't seem to care when I come in or leave which I get. However I asked them what about lunch, since I'm hourly, do I stay 8 hours or 8.5? They were like ehhh I'm flexible. Sometimes I'll be going to lunch meetings outside of work that last ~1.5 hours and I said what about them? Same answer. Thoughts?
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Apr 12, 2017 00:14
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That means as long as you get your work done it doesn't matter, nobody is watching the clock. At least that is what it implies, your mileage may vary Edit: oh, just realized you're on a contract. It sounds like the manager plans to treat you like a regular employee in that regard... What does your contract say about hours and overtime? Jose Valasquez fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 00:17
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huhu posted:Just finished my first day it was awesome. Little confused though. My boss doesn't seem to care when I come in or leave which I get. However I asked them what about lunch, since I'm hourly, do I stay 8 hours or 8.5? They were like ehhh I'm flexible. Sometimes I'll be going to lunch meetings outside of work that last ~1.5 hours and I said what about them? Same answer. Thoughts? Do you at least know whether your lunch is paid? If not, find that out. Then get explicit written clarification about overtime. As in, can you just decide on your own to put in 5 hours of overtime and get the corresponding overtime pay for that? Do you have to get permission? If he keeps being vague look into the official company policy. Have SOMETHING in writing that you can point to. That last thing you want to deal with is a two-faced boss saying, "eh I don't care" and then when you try to get paid he starts saying, "You didn't fill out form 347.8C and get written permission 3 weeks in advance for this overtime, pay denied," whether that's legal where you live or not.
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Apr 12, 2017 00:29
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huhu posted:Just finished my first day it was awesome. Little confused though. My boss doesn't seem to care when I come in or leave which I get. However I asked them what about lunch, since I'm hourly, do I stay 8 hours or 8.5? They were like ehhh I'm flexible. Sometimes I'll be going to lunch meetings outside of work that last ~1.5 hours and I said what about them? Same answer. Thoughts? Going to second getting it in writing solidly. You can do it without being confrontational or anything. Just be all "hey boss since I'm hourly and would like some clarity I want to talk about what is paid, what isn't, and how the overtime works." Get it written down and make sure you two understand each other and all will be good. A boss who is not a lovely boss will be happy to make sure you know what's what.
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Apr 12, 2017 01:13
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huhu posted:Just finished my first day it was awesome. Little confused though. My boss doesn't seem to care when I come in or leave which I get. However I asked them what about lunch, since I'm hourly, do I stay 8 hours or 8.5? They were like ehhh I'm flexible. Sometimes I'll be going to lunch meetings outside of work that last ~1.5 hours and I said what about them? Same answer. Thoughts? Lunch is almost never covered. The major exception is lunch meetings, if you're working during lunch you should be getting paid.
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Apr 12, 2017 02:00
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Any tips for getting a job *after* your first job? I'm planning on more seriously looking in a month or two, but having sent out my resume a bit to test the waters I've literally not got a single response. Been graduated/at my current gig for ~9 months. Also, current title is Jr Software Eng, is it too soon to be looking for a title bump?
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Apr 12, 2017 02:53
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Had a phone screening today. The woman asked me the reason why I was looking for another job. I said: 1) Pay raise 2) More opportunities to develop vs. doing QA and customer service stuff 3) Learning new front-end tech, specifically JS frameworks. I thought these were all solid reasons to look for a new job. Right now, I'm 5 months into my first job after college and making below the AVG and MED wages for my field. I'm fine with this because I'm learning and getting experience. The screening woman said, "If you were my nephew, I'd smack you. You should never tell a hiring manager that you're looking for a pay raise because entry level people usually expect more than they're actually worth and it just ends up pissing the hiring manager off." Like  . Lady, obviously I want a pay raise. Why is that such a taboo thing to bring up? I was even told by my current employer that you should always discuss compensation in every interview you take.I was pretty confused, but I'd like to hear other thoughts about this? Is "I want to make more money" really a bad point to bring up in an interview? Ploft-shell crab posted:Any tips for getting a job *after* your first job? I'm planning on more seriously looking in a month or two, but having sent out my resume a bit to test the waters I've literally not got a single response. Been graduated/at my current gig for ~9 months. Same. I've just been putting out feelers and updating my resume/cover letter to include keywords and details that match all the job postings well.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:36
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Grump posted:Had a phone screening today. The woman asked me the reason why I was looking for another job. No. Money is always a valid reason to look for a job. People say otherwise are suspicious, and will probably take advantage of you.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:42
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lifg posted:No. Money is always a valid reason to look for a job. People say otherwise are suspicious, and will probably take advantage of you. Yeah that's a gigantic red flag no matter what the field or job. People go to work to get paid. People tend to search for ways they can get paid more. That's like...basic.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:54
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If I was trying to get a job somewhere and the first point of contact talked about slapping me I would nope the gently caress out of there immediately. That seems incredibly hosed up and dysfunctional.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:56
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Ploft-shell crab posted:Any tips for getting a job *after* your first job? I'm planning on more seriously looking in a month or two, but having sent out my resume a bit to test the waters I've literally not got a single response. Been graduated/at my current gig for ~9 months. Any particular reason you're looking after less than a year? I don't think there's much consensus on what's "unreliable job-hopping" and what's no big deal, but when you've never held a job for year that feels to me like the same risk-group as hiring someone straight out of college.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:59
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camoseven posted:If I was trying to get a job somewhere and the first point of contact talked about slapping me I would nope the gently caress out of there immediately. That seems incredibly hosed up and dysfunctional. yeah. The funny part was that she asked me what I'm making now, and after I told her she said that they offer a lot more than my current job. I think I was just dealing with a nutcase HR lady.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:59
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camoseven posted:If I was trying to get a job somewhere and the first point of contact talked about slapping me I would nope the gently caress out of there immediately. That seems incredibly hosed up and dysfunctional. Yeah, the most generous interpretation of a statement like that that I can think of is that the interviewer is treating you like some irresponsible child who doesn't know what's best for itself. Not a good sign in many ways.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:04
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Yeah that's a gigantic red flag no matter what the field or job. Yes but we still don't bring it up at the first talk usually. It would be like small talk during an initial blind date. "So what's your goals?" "Sex, hot messy sex hopefully with you".
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Apr 12, 2017 19:05
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Hughlander posted:Yes but we still don't bring it up at the first talk usually. It would be like small talk during an initial blind date. "So what's your goals?" "Sex, hot messy sex hopefully with you". Uhhhh have you been on Tinder?
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Apr 12, 2017 19:09
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Grump posted:Had a phone screening today. The woman asked me the reason why I was looking for another job. I think it's definitely a red flag to be told something like that. It sounds like she has issues with her nephew and also with controlling her emotions.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:15
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Yeah that's a gigantic red flag no matter what the field or job. Yeah if that happened to me I would immediatly ask them to withdraw my application. If they are willing to represent themselves that way to people that don't even work there imagine how they treat their employees. Do you think you'd be able to get a raise out of a place that assumes you're worthless before they even meet you?
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Apr 12, 2017 19:16
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I dunno, a drawled anecdote about child abuse seems about right for a small-time HR person from the south faced with a situation they thought was crass? My question is why are you being honest with recruiters? It's not like they're returning the favor. "I want to improve myself and hope that you afford me the opportunity to spend my waking hours in your glorious fluoresced cubicles, and perhaps if you deem me worthy a paycheque would be in order". Lie. Lie egregiously. Lie until you're blue in the face.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:19
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Grump posted:yeah. The funny part was that she asked me what I'm making now, and after I told her she said that they offer a lot more than my current job. You shouldn't have told her what you're making now.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:21
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JawnV6 posted:I dunno, a drawled anecdote about child abuse seems about right for a small-time HR person from the south faced with a situation they thought was crass? A cubicle would be paradise compared to this open office hellscape. In fact that's one of my make or break questions now, What is the office layout? E actually that's not true anymore I just only apply to fully remote positions now. Gildiss fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 19:27
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It was a poor statement for her to make but five months out of college saying "I want more money" up front at a job interview isn't showing a lot of tact.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:39
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Destroyenator posted:It was a poor statement for her to make but five months out of college saying "I want more money" up front at a job interview isn't showing a lot of tact. It depends on context. The way Grump wrote it "1) Pay raise" isn't tactful, but if it was more like "What are you making right now?" "$30k/year" "Oh! Well we can definitely get you a lot more than that. Why are you looking to leave?" "Well, I feel like I'm being under-compensated..." Then it's fine.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:55
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Grump posted:The screening woman said, "If you were my nephew, I'd smack you. You should never tell a hiring manager that you're looking for a pay raise because entry level people usually expect more than they're actually worth and it just ends up pissing the hiring manager off."
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Apr 12, 2017 20:01
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Mniot posted:Any particular reason you're looking after less than a year? I don't think there's much consensus on what's "unreliable job-hopping" and what's no big deal, but when you've never held a job for year that feels to me like the same risk-group as hiring someone straight out of college. Makes sense. Concern about stability of my position/desire to move are my biggest motivating factors.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:29
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Mniot posted:It depends on context. The way Grump wrote it "1) Pay raise" isn't tactful, but if it was more like Nah it was the other way around. Why I was looking to leave was the first question she asked. I got the snappy response right after that. She asked what I was earning towards the end of the conversation. Even if it was forward, we're all adults and I think that being honest in that I want to make more money is a pretty valid point to bring up in a phone screen. Even if saying that is pretty obvious.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:31
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Grump posted:Even if it was forward, we're all adults and I think that being honest in that I want to make more money is a pretty valid point to bring up in a phone screen. Even if saying that is pretty obvious. Don't lead with it. It doesn't get you any good will. Lie better. Determine if they're going to pay you more after longer than 1 minute on the phone.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:37
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JawnV6 posted:Has this approach worked for you historically? Has leading with that as your primary reason for leaving really resonated with any recruiters and had them go the extra mile for you? Have they rewarded this adult honesty with similar candor about the companies you're applying for? I disagree. It does work. It worked for me. Don't lie. Recruiters aren't the enemy.
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Apr 12, 2017 23:52
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lifg posted:I disagree. Let's see the middle ground here. You don't have to lie about everything. And recruiters are the enemy.
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Apr 12, 2017 23:56
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lifg posted:I disagree. This is awful advice. Recruiters are the enemy as their incentives are in no way aligned with yours. You also can't ignore social norms and expect it to go over well. Should you be able to say that you're leaving over pay? Probably but that completely ignores that social norms in America are to not talk about pay and thus doing so makes you appear greedy. You also should never tell a recruiter your current compensation until you get an offer.
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Apr 13, 2017 00:03
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Ploft-shell crab posted:Any tips for getting a job *after* your first job? I'm planning on more seriously looking in a month or two, but having sent out my resume a bit to test the waters I've literally not got a single response. Been graduated/at my current gig for ~9 months. I started looking for a job change about 9 months out of school (what I ended up doing was significantly different than what I'd applied to and the compensation was absolutely atrocious with how much my role grew) and I got very, very few bites. It was also around November so hiring was slow, but I finally got a bit in January. I really get the impression that until you hit about 1.5-2 years of experience, you're more undesirable than a new grad. I was also lucky enough that my company didn't give people junior titles. I did end up getting a new position (it's been a dream so far) with a big paybump and better benefits all around, so it's certainly possible, it's just going to be rough going.
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Apr 13, 2017 00:08
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lifg posted:I disagree. I can picture a situation where an external recruiter isn't turned off by "GIMME MOENY" being the first thing out of a RCG's mouth, but there's generally a polite fiction that we're all in this to further the state of the art, collaborate with other experts in the field, and maybe as a side effect get paid monies. "Lie" is a little bold, but Grump's radical honesty isn't getting results and I went a little strong. Can you elaborate on your experience getting a job when your stated reasons for leaving were wholly unconnected to your professional development and entirely centered on compensation?
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Apr 13, 2017 00:40
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JawnV6 posted:I can picture a situation where an external recruiter isn't turned off by "GIMME MOENY" being the first thing out of a RCG's mouth, but there's generally a polite fiction that we're all in this to further the state of the art, collaborate with other experts in the field, and maybe as a side effect get paid monies. "Lie" is a little bold, but Grump's radical honesty isn't getting results and I went a little strong. I was getting paid very little at my first job, and needed more money to pay some medical bills. When I talked to a recruiter who placed a lot of people at Bank of America I said that I was looking for a pay increase. He understood. It was that simple. Again, when talking to the recruiter who got me my latest job, when she asked what I was looking for, I gave a specific salary as my #3 requirement. I don't know why people here think recruiters will be angry at you for talking about money. They won't. Money is why we have jobs, recruiters know that. Of all the things that will sink a good job opportunity, talking about money with the recruiter just isn't on the list. (Now talking about money with the team lead during a technical interview, *that's* a bit gauche.)
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Apr 13, 2017 01:17
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I've never had anyone respond negatively to me mentioning money being a motivating factor for a new job. I also always mention it last after career growth and the other poo poo you're supposed to say, as if it were just a nice bonus reason. I'm pretty happy at my current job but at my last one my answer to that question was usually: 1) Technical reasons; wanting to move away from particular technologies, toward other technologies (whatever their company uses), wanting better technical processes/practices 2) Career reasons; no room to move up at current company, not learning anything new, feel that I'm stagnating 3) Money; "I think I'm worth more than what I'm currently making" Also: 1A) Don't get too negative or poo poo talk, and preface the answer by reinforcing that I like my current company and coworkers, but...
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Apr 13, 2017 01:55
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Lie/truth is not how I'd think about it. You're framing the narrative and whatever you say first is going to be a big part of that. If the first thing you say is that you want $x, then you are "the engineer who costs $x" and that's rarely helpful to you. You want to give them a positive impression first and then talk money. That flips the interviewer's thinking from "they cost $90k. Were they $90k good?" into "they were good. Can we afford $90k?" As a junior developer, your assets are: coming from a "good" school, having friends in the right places, and how well you can interview. You want to use the interview to pump yourself up and talk about money late in the process, hopefully after they've decided that they want you. As a more experienced developer, you can talk about money sooner because you have more background. If you're some kind of celebrity coder you can open with "yo I want $500k" because you've already reached the point of the interview where they've decided to hire you. External recruiters (who are not employees of the company you're interviewing at) can be a different story. If you have a good recruiter, you can tell them "I want $90k" up front and they won't be offended. They'll filter out companies that they think won't offer that much and they'll soften up the companies they do send you to, to make sure they'll offer the right number. Many recruiters are garbage, but I've worked with three different phenomenal recruiters so I'd never write the whole profession off. If you don't have a strong professional network a recruiter can be awesome. That said, a good recruiter will almost never be interested in hunting chump college grads so if you're in this thread you shouldn't trust recruiters.
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Apr 13, 2017 03:04
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lifg posted:I was getting paid very little at my first job, and needed more money to pay some medical bills. When I talked to a recruiter who placed a lot of people at Bank of America I said that I was looking for a pay increase. He understood. It was that simple. lifg posted:#3 requirement
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Apr 13, 2017 03:26
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I think we might be getting off-point here. I definitely don't think talking about the specific compensation during the initial phone screen is okay. But I do think telling a recruiter that you're looking for a job that pays more is fine , and that you shouldn't be scolded for bringing it up. Like, that's a given. Who looks for a job that offers equal pay??? Maybe as a junior level person, it might come off as snobby, but I definitely don't think that "junior level employees usually overestimate how much they're actually worth" is an appropriate response. It does seem like their treating me like an irresponsible child, like Herbotron said. Either way, I don't plan on taking this job if I get far into the interview process. It's a little far. Thermopyle posted:You shouldn't have told her what you're making now. Agreed. I definitely regretted that after the call.
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Apr 13, 2017 03:32
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Pointsman posted:I started looking for a job change about 9 months out of school (what I ended up doing was significantly different than what I'd applied to and the compensation was absolutely atrocious with how much my role grew) and I got very, very few bites. It was also around November so hiring was slow, but I finally got a bit in January. I really get the impression that until you hit about 1.5-2 years of experience, you're more undesirable than a new grad. I was also lucky enough that my company didn't give people junior titles. Thanks for the info! Yeah it definitely feels like I got more interest as a new grad than I am getting now 
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Apr 13, 2017 03:47
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It's important to differentiate between external recruiter and internal recruiter/HR. You can be much more blunt with an external recruiter and if they're not an idiot (many are) their job is to convey the message to the company while making you look good. When you're talking to an internal recruiter you are talking to an employee of the company and you need to be entirely on your guard. It's not helpful to say "I want more money" without naming a figure. Every company thinks that they pay the right amount. Don't talk about money until you're ready to talk about money. An HR person saying "I would slap you" is insane. That doesn't mean you don't need to improve your approach. Grump posted:Either way, I don't plan on taking this job if I get far into the interview process. It's a little far. Why are you even talking to them? Why are they even talking to you? Will they invite you to come on-site to get slapped?
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Apr 13, 2017 03:49
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