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JcDent posted:I'm an idiot, of course I want my leader to stab a fool, that's what being a Champ is all about. So giving the leader a power sword and a bolt pistol while making the slaaneshi marine a regular bolter marine and giving the gunner a plasma gun leaves me with 140 points... to get two autogun cultists instead of one and 15 points for... a photovisor?  this meets your requirements, personally i keep my guys lean and cram as many fighters onto the team as i can
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Apr 11, 2017 17:22
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I'm not sold on Camo gear, especially on close range models. If it also reduced the short range band by 4" they would be mega worth it (and it would arguably make more sense than the actual rules) but unless you are planning to skulk around at 24" away from the enemy Camo is pretty useless. In that list I'd probably put the camo gear on two of the cultists, or on the boltgun marine.
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Apr 11, 2017 17:41
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ineptmule posted:I'm not sold on Camo gear, especially on close range models. If it also reduced the short range band by 4" they would be mega worth it (and it would arguably make more sense than the actual rules) but unless you are planning to skulk around at 24" away from the enemy Camo is pretty useless. Cultists are poo poo and have a different table of stuff that they can get. No camo cloaks.
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Apr 11, 2017 18:05
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Phyresis posted:
The champ feels a little naked without a ranged weapon. Unfortunately, dropping two camo cloaks wouldn't help.
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Apr 11, 2017 18:09
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JcDent posted:The champ feels a little naked without a ranged weapon. Unfortunately, dropping two camo cloaks wouldn't help. i agree that the camo is meh, drop it and a cultist's autogun and give the champ a bolt pistol. the five points left over buys that cultist an extra knife, but i'd just re-buy the camo on either tzeentch marine
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Apr 11, 2017 18:12
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ineptmule posted:I'm not sold on Camo gear, especially on close range models. If it also reduced the short range band by 4" they would be mega worth it (and it would arguably make more sense than the actual rules) but unless you are planning to skulk around at 24" away from the enemy Camo is pretty useless. What does camo do then?
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Apr 11, 2017 18:19
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-4" to enemies long range when targeting the model. So handy on snipers who hang out at 24"+ but not so good on models that get up close. Edit: mixes nicely with telescopic sights 
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Apr 11, 2017 18:25
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Camo is also good against short-ranged enemies. Tau Pathfinders have an 18" maximum range, which is reduced to 14" by camo. If you have a typical 24" range basic weapon, that gives you a 10" dead zone where you can fire but they can't
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Apr 11, 2017 19:44
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Phyresis posted:
Absolutely. You want bodies over toys with the possible exception of at least one expensive gun, when you start out.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:58
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One of my local hams pushed out a SW:A Roster sheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B82YjtNKP2OgS2xjMWVqSWpqT2c/view
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Apr 11, 2017 20:19
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Kaza42 posted:Camo is also good against short-ranged enemies. Tau Pathfinders have an 18" maximum range, which is reduced to 14" by camo. If you have a typical 24" range basic weapon, that gives you a 10" dead zone where you can fire but they can't Good point, yeah. Don't get me wrong, for 5 points it's a great upgrade, and great to use up little extra points allowances when rearming, but I wouldn't prioritise it.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:52
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The tiny hobby store down the road from work got a few sets of SWA, and I was able to reserve the last one on, get this, Monday morning. Unfortunately, they haven't received their shipment yet, though they were expecting it on Monday. I'm being a crybaby and I want my copy now.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:29
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Ashcans posted:Wow, taking a whole new book to print with all the faction rules and additional rules for Inquisitors and Sisters? That's a really cool move. If this is a portent of things to come, its very encouraging. Seconding this, so much so I felt inspired to email GW customer services with a "gently caress yes, keep this up and I'll be back in no time" 
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Apr 12, 2017 19:10
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Picked up my box at lunch. I am torn on whether or not to keep the terrain - it goes with absolutely nothing I own (I have the original NM platforms, along with an MDF set) and yet, it looks pretty nice. I think the lack of ladders everywhere might be the determining factor here. The original NM stuff had ladders all over and it was easy to get to a higher level. The new stuff looks like it will take an entire game just to get to a ladder, and once there, you'll get stuck halfway up and become a target. At least I got ten more boyz to add to my hundreds of unassembled Orks! 
berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 19:23
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berzerkmonkey posted:Picked up my box at lunch. I am torn on whether or not to keep the terrain - it goes with absolutely nothing I own (I have the original NM platforms, along with an MDF set) and yet, it looks pretty nice. If you want to sell it, PM me.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:24
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Man Orks having initiative 2 seems way too punishing to me. 66% chance of falling off a gantry every time you get hit? (even if there's no wound) That's just too loving much. I get that Orks are clumsy but they shouldn't be tripping over themselves to their death just walking down a catwalk. JcDent posted:Just because I'm not buying any new miniatures doesn't mean I can't go stupid with the ones that I have/can assemble. How's this for a CSM list that's Alpha Legion inspired? Technically speaking Alpha Legion shouldn't have any marks, right?  berzerkmonkey posted:I think the lack of ladders everywhere might be the determining factor here. The original NM stuff had ladders all over and it was easy to get to a higher level. The new stuff looks like it will take an entire game just to get to a ladder, and once there, you'll get stuck halfway up and become a target. I was just about to ask, anybody know where I can order some ladder bitz online? This game needs a fuckton of ladders. I guess I'll try to fashion some out of popsicle sticks or something.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:02
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TKIY posted:If you want to sell it, PM me. I'll let you know, though shipping to Canada might be a killer. Zaphod42 posted:I was just about to ask, anybody know where I can order some ladder bitz online? This game needs a fuckton of ladders.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:20
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Zaphod42 posted:Man Orks having initiative 2 seems way too punishing to me. 66% chance of falling off a gantry every time you get hit? (even if there's no wound) That's just too loving much. Guard in Carapace Armor are I2, too. It vexes me, but Clip Harnesses are great and combined with Telescopic Sights and the Sergeant's tendency to not bother shooting so my guys can reroll 1s and therefore not really need to close range with his shotgun, taking up a rooftop and pouring 36" Lasgun fire into targets until they stop moving has made it much, much less of a hindrance.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:00
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Zaphod42 posted:Man Orks having initiative 2 seems way too punishing to me. 66% chance of falling off a gantry every time you get hit? (even if there's no wound) That's just too loving much. I feel like Orks should get some kind of escape pinning bonus while they are benefiting from the Mob Rule effect. Maybe they get a bonus to I tests or they can get an ATSKNF style ability to test to escape pinning.
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Apr 12, 2017 23:08
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ineptmule posted:I feel like Orks should get some kind of escape pinning bonus while they are benefiting from the Mob Rule effect. Maybe they get a bonus to I tests or they can get an ATSKNF style ability to test to escape pinning. In Gorkamorka, the orks were immune to pinning, but grots, humans, and muties had to test! The more you know!
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Apr 12, 2017 23:14
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All leaders have a 6" bubble where the other models in their squad can use their leadership and their initiative for testing out of pinning. It doesn't apply to fall checks, but it's something at least. A nob is I3, after all.
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Apr 12, 2017 23:17
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The Malthusian posted:In Gorkamorka, the orks were immune to pinning, but grots, humans, and muties had to test! The more you know! Mate I play Gorka every week at the moment, you don't have to tell me! I miss my green ladz getting up from virtually everything that hits them 
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Apr 13, 2017 00:17
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ineptmule posted:Mate I play Gorka every week at the moment, you don't have to tell me! I miss my green ladz getting up from virtually everything that hits them Getting hit by a car was shockingly safe. Blew my mind the first time I ran over the opposing gang after rocket boosting as hard as I could.
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Apr 13, 2017 00:39
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Strobe posted:Guard in Carapace Armor are I2, too. It vexes me, but Clip Harnesses are great and combined with Telescopic Sights and the Sergeant's tendency to not bother shooting so my guys can reroll 1s and therefore not really need to close range with his shotgun, taking up a rooftop and pouring 36" Lasgun fire into targets until they stop moving has made it much, much less of a hindrance. Yeah but Orks in 'Eavy Armor are I1. So you're talking about an I2 guard (not a marine, not a scout marine, guardsman) with 4+ against an I2 ork with 6+, or an I2 guard with 4+ against an I1 ork with 4+. Considering I1 means you have a 83% chance of failing an initiative test, that's pretty awful. Which means you basically can't use 'eavy armor, which means orks are... weaker than guardsman?!  They do get two attacks but it hardly seems to make up for it. These boyz have the stats of gretchin!Feels like boyz need an extra wound or something to make up for this. Or make it so 'eavy armor has no imitative penalty since they're already at I2. This is on top of orks having BS2 while everybody else has BS4. But at least that kinda makes sense. Still, orks feel... weak? I guess you get as many dudes as guardsman, and more than space marines. Still guardsman feel like they can camp out with snipers and clip harnesses and the orks are going to try to assault them and end up tripping off the buildings. E: Although if you do actually make it to assault, you get a poo poo-ton of attacks. ineptmule posted:I feel like Orks should get some kind of escape pinning bonus while they are benefiting from the Mob Rule effect. Maybe they get a bonus to I tests or they can get an ATSKNF style ability to test to escape pinning. Agreed, something like that would make sense. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Apr 13, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 02:21
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A Yoof is literally half the cost of a Vet Guard and numbers matter a whole lot for a group that collectively gets next to nothing for sustained fire. Lasguns for days is going to drop Orks, but it's not going to drop them fast enough, especially if you're not marching single file across catwalks and actually trying to stay out of line of sight until you get close to charge range. It's pretty easy to spam a full 20 model Ork band from square 1 with 450 points in Yoofs and five models worth caring about. You're statistically unlikely to lose more than two or three dead before they're Boyz and you can start gutting things right proper like.  EDIT: basically that I2 Guard with 4+ and a Lasgun is already, at bare minimum, three times the cost of a Yoof, and twice the cost of a Boy (I think they're 40 points?). It adds up fast, and if they're that much more expensive they should drat well better be superior.
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Apr 13, 2017 04:28
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Strobe posted:A Yoof is literally half the cost of a Vet Guard and numbers matter a whole lot for a group that collectively gets next to nothing for sustained fire. Lasguns for days is going to drop Orks, but it's not going to drop them fast enough, especially if you're not marching single file across catwalks and actually trying to stay out of line of sight until you get close to charge range. Orks get a shitload of sustained fire on their basic guys. BS2 isn't as big of an issue when even a basic ork can spit out d3 shots and still has access to a red dot. Orks are not hurting.
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Apr 13, 2017 04:37
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For some reason I thought it was half your points in recruits, not half your models. Whoops! Still, 10 Yoofs, 1 Nob, and 9 Boyz should still be doable, if casualties before you get to CC range are what you're worried about. I'd also try to avoid ledges, which should be possible unless you're playing on a map that more closely resembles a trapieze than a collection of alleys and roofs.
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Apr 13, 2017 04:50
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Its 1 inch from any ledge, which from what I've seen counts as most of the places you'd be on a necromunda map. But I guess I can just set up my own terrain to have fewer ledges to taste. And then I don't need as much terrain Yeah I guess I'll have to see how sustained fire works out. I'm still worried about BS2, but having sustained fire 1 on even basic guns is pretty rad. Lots of dakka. Hopefully something sticks. Strobe posted:For some reason I thought it was half your points in recruits, not half your models. Whoops! Still, 10 Yoofs, 1 Nob, and 9 Boyz should still be doable, if casualties before you get to CC range are what you're worried about. I'd also try to avoid ledges, which should be possible unless you're playing on a map that more closely resembles a trapieze than a collection of alleys and roofs. That leaves everybody with only shanks. I guess that's a pretty ork-y list, going hardcore hoard army, with 19 models. But having only shanks feels like they're pretty much termagaunts at that point! I'd rather give at least half of them some shootas or sluggas, and maybe even take a single spanner boy. That ends up bringing the count down to like 7-10 models, which is how many a starting Guard list has. Still, I forgot about the bonus sustained fire, that makes up for the low BS and initiative a bit. I'll see how it goes this weekend when I try it out for real with a friend. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Apr 13, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 05:47
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Blood Axes are win. Even without skills, my mob of six spent about eight turns sneakin' around in a Rescue to position for a simultaneous charge on four of the six sentries. Murdered the fuckers without sounding the alarm and the remaining two guys bottled as soon as they saw the Orks. Captured two of them in return Granted, I got very lucky with the sentry rolls, and there was nothing inherently about the unskilled Blood Axes that led to this happening - but they will only get better at it 
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Apr 13, 2017 06:52
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Zaphod42 posted:Its 1 inch from any ledge, which from what I've seen counts as most of the places you'd be on a necromunda map. But I guess I can just set up my own terrain to have fewer ledges to taste. And then I don't need as much terrain  I already posted this in the 40k thread, this starting Ork roster has 14 Fighters and everyone has a weapon. And Orks are REALLY easy to recruit and resupply, which you will come to find is a big, big deal even in a short campaign. A starter IG kill team that uses up all ten Fighter slots has little in the way of special weapons and nothing resembling volume of fire. IMHO AM is a contender for one of the worst kill teams in SW:A, I don't know what the gently caress they were thinking. They're capped at ten but they're just humans with flak armour and flashlights? Grenade launchers are cool but none of their special weapons are anything to write home about. They're just T3 dudes with none of the cool poo poo that the other generic T3 dudes get. e: using an early resupply to buy red-dot sights for your shootas is a good idea, BS3 helps a lot Phyresis fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Apr 13, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 10:48
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A new Shadespire faction got announced. https://www.facebook.com/warhammerunderworlds/videos/1306236872788473/ Those are some good skelemans right there.
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Apr 13, 2017 12:34
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SteelMentor posted:A new Shadespire faction got announced. Agree on pretty skelies, GW skelies rule. Tim Prov is going to have some skelemans made in October's kickstarter, but those will be in metal and metal can suck my dick
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Apr 13, 2017 13:16
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SteelMentor posted:A new Shadespire faction got announced. Good models. poo poo name.
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Apr 13, 2017 14:44
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Thundercloud posted:Good models. poo poo name. Agreed. I am tentatively excited about Shadespire, and am hoping it will be a good game for quick matches when we're standing around not doing much at the store. Also, God help me, I am starting to get interested in AoS. I must fight this.
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Apr 13, 2017 14:49
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SteelMentor posted:A new Shadespire faction got announced. Motherfucker. Looks like I'm gonna play Shadespire now.
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Apr 13, 2017 15:27
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berzerkmonkey posted:Agreed. I am considering dipping my toe in if they do a kill team version or I get off my rear end and write one that takes the points system, breaks it down to a per model cost, makes it a 200 point game with a compulsory 80-120 point hero, changes several of the dumbest parts of the rules and every model is it's own unit. You end up with 5-12 models in most cases. Basically to play with kids. Considering the rules are a downloadable 4 page pamphlet I am really surprised they have never gone back and changed them. The FAQ is longer than the rules.
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Apr 13, 2017 16:15
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Thundercloud posted:I am considering dipping my toe in if they do a kill team version or I get off my rear end and write one that takes the points system, breaks it down to a per model cost, makes it a 200 point game with a compulsory 80-120 point hero, changes several of the dumbest parts of the rules and every model is it's own unit. You end up with 5-12 models in most cases. Basically to play with kids. The General's Handbook has points values for all of the units. It's not Kill Team, but it is points values as we are used to them. I'm trying to hold off delving too much into AoS until Shadespire releases, as it might get me to where I want to be. I wasn't planning on buying anything new anyway, just repurposing my square based stuff.
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Apr 13, 2017 16:41
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I know, I'm talking about getting per model values from the generals handbook stuff.
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Apr 13, 2017 17:13
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Phyresis posted:I already posted this in the 40k thread, this starting Ork roster has 14 Fighters and everyone has a weapon. And Orks are REALLY easy to recruit and resupply, which you will come to find is a big, big deal even in a short campaign. A starter IG kill team that uses up all ten Fighter slots has little in the way of special weapons and nothing resembling volume of fire. IMHO AM is a contender for one of the worst kill teams in SW:A, I don't know what the gently caress they were thinking. They're capped at ten but they're just humans with flak armour and flashlights? Grenade launchers are cool but none of their special weapons are anything to write home about. They're just T3 dudes with none of the cool poo poo that the other generic T3 dudes get. Yeah I'm definitely looking at playing something like orks or guard over something like tyranids or chaos because recruiting is so much easier, it just seems the game's more made for teams like that. I dunno, guardsmen can basically turn their whole team into tempestus scions, and a couple of snipers with the right kit can be pretty dang nasty. They may not start the first round with 10 dudes or a bunch of kit, but its pretty easy for guard to recruit or resupply also. They can get carapace armor and hot shot lasguns or sniper rifles, so its a bit more than just flak armor and flashlights. And the leader can give nearby troops reroll to hit? Seems pretty decent. Also, having a scout list is cool, but you'd think they'd have a space marines list that'd just mirror the chaos marines list pretty much, if people wanted to take marines. Have fewer dudes and mix a few scouts in, but make it so your troops get power armor.  Lots of people are asking for deathwatch lists so maybe they'll do something like that. I don't play SMs myself so I don't mind 
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Apr 13, 2017 18:46
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah I'm definitely looking at playing something like orks or guard over something like tyranids or chaos because recruiting is so much easier, it just seems the game's more made for teams like that. I dunno, guardsmen can basically turn their whole team into tempestus scions, and a couple of snipers with the right kit can be pretty dang nasty. They may not start the first round with 10 dudes or a bunch of kit, but its pretty easy for guard to recruit or resupply also. carapace armor gives that -1 init penalty that you're overly concerned about and it is extremely overpriced for lovely T3 crappers, and hotshot lasguns are barely better than flashlights. They're like lovely boltguns, not nearly as good as shootas. The Leader giving up his superior shooting to only reroll 1s on guys within 6" is a nothing ability, it's not even worth giving up his shooting for. IG just don't have the firepower to get the job done. They have terrible special weapons beyond the basic meh ones and lasguns and autoguns are literally the worst guns in the game and making them Str 4 barely helps. IG suffer enormously from the fact that GW refuses to price wargear based on the body that's wielding it. Even guns should cost more if it's being wielded by a more durable fighter, but nope, lovely T3 crappers pay the same price as a Chaos Space Marine for their stuff.
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Apr 13, 2017 19:18
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