Magic the Gathering Appreciation Station

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LifeLynx: Feb 27, 2001; Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time; Grimey Drawer

ShaneB posted:

Can anyone help me understand why they had to add all the "except if...." text to the non-token Vizier of Many Faces?

Magic rules are based on a 20+ legacy system and sort of operates like a computer system that you manually plug logic into. I'm not sure that makes sense. Copy effects are strange. An embalmed token is a complete copy of the original card, except it's white instead of its original colors and is a Zombie in addition to its types. Everything else is the identical, so its token text that's printed on the token is more of reminder text - its actual text isn't really different from the text box on the original card. If anyone's wondering why this particular token has a different text box than the printed card, keep in mind they all do. All embalmed version tokens should technically have the embalm ability printed on them, since they're exact copies. It's just that embalm can never work on a token because it only works from the graveyard and they can never be in the graveyard, so they just leave it off.

Edit: Also, copy effects copy other copy effects.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:11

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# ? May 15, 2024 08:42

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

ShaneB posted:

Ummm

looks like except if to me

Basically that text is already on the embalmed token... I just don't know why the main card needs it as well.

It's not a double-faced card and has to function if you don't have a copy of the token card.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:12

ShaneB: Oct 22, 2002

evilweasel posted:

It's not a double-faced card and has to function if you don't have a copy of the token card.

This is the best explanation, thank you

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:12

KillarySwank: Jun 24, 2013; Lemon Flavoured

ShaneB posted:

Ummm

looks like except if to me

Basically that text is already on the embalmed token... I just don't know why the main card needs it as well.

Babies play the game too.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:12

ShaneB: Oct 22, 2002

KillarySwank posted:

Babies play the game too.

I just never really considered that the token wouldn't always be around so it's just clumsy templating for that scenario.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:14

Attorney at Funk: Jun 3, 2008; ...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

ShaneB posted:

Ummm

looks like except if to me

Basically that text is already on the embalmed token... I just don't know why the main card needs it as well.

I don't think you can put rules text on a token if it's not on the card that generates the token.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:17

black potus: Jul 13, 2006

Token rules text is all made up lies, much like the constitution or when my dad said santa was real.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:22

Sigma-X: Jun 17, 2005

The best possible outcome for Hour of Devastation, plotwise, based on my limited knowledge of the plot (bolas is there, gatwatch is summoned, plane spoke to Nissa) is this:

Gatwatch arrives. Find Bolas has built himself a planeswalker factory and shielded the city and warped the culture into one of sacrifice.

Gatewatch stop all of this. The day is saved.

The plane itself or something of similar scale was actually being kept restrained by the sacrifice, and is sentient, the planeswalker harvesting was just a side effect that Bolas set up to extract some value from the terrible process.

Bolas is broken, city collapses, plane rides up, Jace and Nissa move to speak to the plane and convince it that the sacrifice was wrong, Jace tries to communicate telepathically and Nissa through her earth mother voodoo.

It loving eats them and the gatewatch has to flee, knowing a sentient plane is going to attempt to chase them through the blind eternities.

Bolas intercepts them a block or two down the road and suggests that New Phyrexia itself can be weaponized and he had been sowing the seeds for such through Tezz. We go to NP and Bolas tries to play NP, the artificial unlife creator vs Amonkhet, the natural organic life devourer, with the Phyrexian rebellion, jacetice league, tezzerets, and Bolas all having conflicting interests.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:34

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

That clone made me realize two things that could help explain the wording:

1. The Embalmed creature has the same name as the creature.
2. The embalm tokens will not always be available.

It seems clunky, but this way you can easily shorthand its representation on the board by moving the card from your graveyard to the battlefield without issue.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:38

clamiam45: Sep 10, 2005; HIGH FIVE! I'M GAY TOO!!!!!!

Sigma-X posted:

The best possible outcome for Hour of Devastation, plotwise, based on my limited knowledge of the plot (bolas is there, gatwatch is summoned, plane spoke to Nissa) is this:

Gatwatch arrives. Find Bolas has built himself a planeswalker factory and shielded the city and warped the culture into one of sacrifice.

Gatewatch stop all of this. The day is saved.

The plane itself or something of similar scale was actually being kept restrained by the sacrifice, and is sentient, the planeswalker harvesting was just a side effect that Bolas set up to extract some value from the terrible process.

Bolas is broken, city collapses, plane rides up, Jace and Nissa move to speak to the plane and convince it that the sacrifice was wrong, Jace tries to communicate telepathically and Nissa through her earth mother voodoo.

It loving eats them and the gatewatch has to flee, knowing a sentient plane is going to attempt to chase them through the blind eternities.

Bolas intercepts them a block or two down the road and suggests that New Phyrexia itself can be weaponized and he had been sowing the seeds for such through Tezz. We go to NP and Bolas tries to play NP, the artificial unlife creator vs Amonkhet, the natural organic life devourer, with the Phyrexian rebellion, jacetice league, tezzerets, and Bolas all having conflicting interests.

Just curious how long you had to run the numbers to figure out that this story was the best of all of them

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:40

bigperm: Jul 10, 2001; some obscure reference

Sigma-X posted:

The best possible outcome for Hour of Devastation, plotwise, based on my limited knowledge of the plot (bolas is there, gatwatch is summoned, plane spoke to Nissa) is this:

Gatwatch arrives. Find Bolas has built himself a planeswalker factory and shielded the city and warped the culture into one of sacrifice.

Gatewatch stop all of this. The day is saved.

The plane itself or something of similar scale was actually being kept restrained by the sacrifice, and is sentient, the planeswalker harvesting was just a side effect that Bolas set up to extract some value from the terrible process.

Bolas is broken, city collapses, plane rides up, Jace and Nissa move to speak to the plane and convince it that the sacrifice was wrong, Jace tries to communicate telepathically and Nissa through her earth mother voodoo.

It loving eats them and the gatewatch has to flee, knowing a sentient plane is going to attempt to chase them through the blind eternities.

Bolas intercepts them a block or two down the road and suggests that New Phyrexia itself can be weaponized and he had been sowing the seeds for such through Tezz. We go to NP and Bolas tries to play NP, the artificial unlife creator vs Amonkhet, the natural organic life devourer, with the Phyrexian rebellion, jacetice league, tezzerets, and Bolas all having conflicting interests.

This would be cool but it's going to be Aether Revolt 2: Graveyard Boo-ga-loo

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:44

YggdrasilTM: Nov 7, 2011

Sigma-X posted:

The best possible outcome for Hour of Devastation, plotwise, based on my limited knowledge of the plot (bolas is there, gatwatch is summoned, plane spoke to Nissa) is this:

Gatwatch arrives. Find Bolas has built himself a planeswalker factory and shielded the city and warped the culture into one of sacrifice.

Gatewatch stop all of this. The day is saved.

The plane itself or something of similar scale was actually being kept restrained by the sacrifice, and is sentient, the planeswalker harvesting was just a side effect that Bolas set up to extract some value from the terrible process.

Bolas is broken, city collapses, plane rides up, Jace and Nissa move to speak to the plane and convince it that the sacrifice was wrong, Jace tries to communicate telepathically and Nissa through her earth mother voodoo.

It loving eats them and the gatewatch has to flee, knowing a sentient plane is going to attempt to chase them through the blind eternities.

Bolas intercepts them a block or two down the road and suggests that New Phyrexia itself can be weaponized and he had been sowing the seeds for such through Tezz. We go to NP and Bolas tries to play NP, the artificial unlife creator vs Amonkhet, the natural organic life devourer, with the Phyrexian rebellion, jacetice league, tezzerets, and Bolas all having conflicting interests.

So basically Battle for Zendikar?

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:45

Jen X: Sep 29, 2014; To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.

Sigma-X posted:

The best possible outcome for Hour of Devastation, plotwise, based on my limited knowledge of the plot (bolas is there, gatwatch is summoned, plane spoke to Nissa) is this:

Gatwatch arrives. Find Bolas has built himself a planeswalker factory and shielded the city and warped the culture into one of sacrifice.

Gatewatch stop all of this. The day is saved.

The plane itself or something of similar scale was actually being kept restrained by the sacrifice, and is sentient, the planeswalker harvesting was just a side effect that Bolas set up to extract some value from the terrible process.

Bolas is broken, city collapses, plane rides up, Jace and Nissa move to speak to the plane and convince it that the sacrifice was wrong, Jace tries to communicate telepathically and Nissa through her earth mother voodoo.

It loving eats them and the gatewatch has to flee, knowing a sentient plane is going to attempt to chase them through the blind eternities.

Bolas intercepts them a block or two down the road and suggests that New Phyrexia itself can be weaponized and he had been sowing the seeds for such through Tezz. We go to NP and Bolas tries to play NP, the artificial unlife creator vs Amonkhet, the natural organic life devourer, with the Phyrexian rebellion, jacetice league, tezzerets, and Bolas all having conflicting interests.

sure, except replace "jace" with "chandra"

if fire can kill cthulhu, it can talk to desertland

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:58

mossyfisk: Nov 8, 2010; FF0000

If that text wasn't on the card, the embalm'd copy would not be white or a zombie.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 22:59

Attorney at Funk: Jun 3, 2008; ...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

mossyfisk posted:

If that text wasn't on the card, the embalm'd copy would not be white or a zombie.

Now if you want to ask "why does Embalm add so many words to an already complicated flashback token mechanic just for the sake of flavor" that question's a lot harder to answer satisfyingly.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 23:19

Sigma-X: Jun 17, 2005

YggdrasilTM posted:

So basically Battle for Zendikar?

More like Rath and the weatherlight saga.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 23:26

myDad: Jan 20, 2010; ce n'est pas ma m�re; College Slice

black potus posted:

Token rules text is all made up lies, much like the constitution or when my dad said santa was real.

Santa is real

# ? Apr 12, 2017 23:34

Star Man: Jun 1, 2008; There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow

Sigma-X posted:

More like Rath and the weatherlight saga.

There was something about Kaladesh that had vibes of Mercadian Masques.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 23:40

atelier morgan: Mar 11, 2003; super-scientific, ultra-gay; Lipstick Apathy

Star Man posted:

There was something about Kaladesh that had vibes of Mercadian Masques.

it wasn''t the art so that seems like a pretty dire insult

# ? Apr 12, 2017 23:43

Hellsau: Jan 14, 2010; NEVER FUCKING TAKE A NIGHT OFF CLAN WARS.

UberJew posted:

it wasn''t the art so that seems like a pretty dire insult

Much like Masques block, Kaladesh block did not have a third set.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 23:47

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

Attorney at Funk posted:

Now if you want to ask "why does Embalm add so many words to an already complicated flashback token mechanic just for the sake of flavor" that question's a lot harder to answer satisfyingly.

Because that flavor is awesome as heck, they're goddamn mummies holy hell.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 23:49

Attorney at Funk: Jun 3, 2008; ...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

Because that flavor is awesome as heck, they're goddamn mummies holy hell.

Eh. They could've done the tokens without the extra rules mumbo jumbo and it'd have been exactly as cool.

# ? Apr 13, 2017 00:14

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

e: Nevermind. I no read good.

ManMythLegend fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Apr 13, 2017

# ? Apr 13, 2017 00:22

sit on my Facebook: Jun 20, 2007; ASS GAS OR GRASS
No One Rides for FREE
In the Trumplord Holy Land

I'll bet any one of you one entire nickel right now that Embalm Clone is standard playable, especially if Gods and Gearhulks are common

# ? Apr 13, 2017 00:22

ZeroCount: Aug 12, 2013

Embalm wording might be clunky but it's never going to cause problems because the core idea is real loving easy to understand. They're mummies! It's like how Animate Dead has roughly ten billion words on it in some incarnations but everybody knows what it does because duh.

# ? Apr 13, 2017 00:23

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

ManMythLegend posted:

Gonna be fun to clone snake god with this T4 and go to town.

By town you mean, the graveyard as a state based action?

# ? Apr 13, 2017 00:29

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

Lone Goat posted:

By town you mean, the graveyard as a state based action?

poo poo. Forgot he was legendary.

# ? Apr 13, 2017 00:40

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

Did you think Rhonas was just a god?!

# ? Apr 13, 2017 00:42

STING 64: Oct 20, 2006

what if rhonas was one of us

# ? Apr 13, 2017 00:50

Ultima66: Sep 2, 2008

I'm the standard format where a competitively costed Clone sucks because every playable expensive creature is a Legendary.

E: poo poo it happened in Kamigawa too.

# ? Apr 13, 2017 00:54

Soul Glo: Aug 27, 2003; Just let it shine through

Clone a green Gearhulk, go to town that way, it's a nice commute

# ? Apr 13, 2017 01:07

black potus: Jul 13, 2006

myDad posted:

Santa is real

A..are tokens real?

# ? Apr 13, 2017 01:10

little munchkin: Aug 15, 2010

Sigma-X posted:

The best possible outcome for Hour of Devastation, plotwise, based on my limited knowledge of the plot (bolas is there, gatwatch is summoned, plane spoke to Nissa) is this:

Gatwatch arrives. Find Bolas has built himself a planeswalker factory and shielded the city and warped the culture into one of sacrifice.

Gatewatch stop all of this. The day is saved.

The plane itself or something of similar scale was actually being kept restrained by the sacrifice, and is sentient, the planeswalker harvesting was just a side effect that Bolas set up to extract some value from the terrible process.

Bolas is broken, city collapses, plane rides up, Jace and Nissa move to speak to the plane and convince it that the sacrifice was wrong, Jace tries to communicate telepathically and Nissa through her earth mother voodoo.

It loving eats them and the gatewatch has to flee, knowing a sentient plane is going to attempt to chase them through the blind eternities.

Bolas intercepts them a block or two down the road and suggests that New Phyrexia itself can be weaponized and he had been sowing the seeds for such through Tezz. We go to NP and Bolas tries to play NP, the artificial unlife creator vs Amonkhet, the natural organic life devourer, with the Phyrexian rebellion, jacetice league, tezzerets, and Bolas all having conflicting interests.

i refuse to read a word of this

# ? Apr 13, 2017 01:34

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

The best possible outcome for Hour of Devastation, plotwise, based on my limited knowledge of the plot (bolas is there, gatwatch is summoned, plane spoke to Nissa) is this:

# ? Apr 13, 2017 02:07

Lottery of Babylon: Apr 25, 2012; STRAIGHT TROPIN'

The best possible outcome for Hour of Devastation, plotwise, based on my limited knowledge of the plot (bolas is there, gatwatch is summoned, plane spoke to Nissa) is this:

Dack Fayden steals the plane of Amonkhet away, leaving the Gatewatch and Bolas floating in empty space. They die.

# ? Apr 13, 2017 02:08

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Ultima66 posted:

I'm the standard format where a competitively costed Clone sucks because every playable expensive creature is a Legendary.

E: poo poo it happened in Kamigawa too.

Well back then, the Clones would have been Murder!

# ? Apr 13, 2017 02:17