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Zesty Crab Legs posted:Fair enough. But "someone said it on Survivor Sucks Forums" was an awful source originally. That can not be said enough. There was a person on Sucks who was convinced Varner found out because he's gay so he must have been checking out Zeke's package and realized he did not have one.
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Apr 13, 2017 20:24
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Varner's "strategic reasons" or thinking that Zeke was already out based on the previous season don't mean poo poo. As Zeke himself said, Varner using Zeke's trans status as being evidence of "capability for deception" is seriously transphobic and just as bad if not worse than the fact that he outed Zeke on national TV without his permission.
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Apr 13, 2017 20:28
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Lone Goat posted:Thanks for this. Green team looks like poo poo, I think the team of unpicked players will score higher. I'd love to see that chart get updated in-thread after each episode. I wouldn't post it every episode, but here's a progress report on a milestone.  We thought it'd be fun to leave the last round of picks undrafted, but went ahead and picked who we wanted in the order anyway as a bonus. We're thinking about just merging them into our teams because it would be lame if the unpicked team won. Zesty fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Apr 13, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 21:01
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Woof, old mana tribe.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:06
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Yeah, 9-4 is pretty bad.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:09
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Zesty Crab Legs posted:I wouldn't post it every episode, but here's a progress report on a milestone. Jeez dude you're getting killed out there. RIP Mana and Zesty. I think you should leave them unpicked, and if the unpicked team wins then donate the money to a worthy cause because you losers don't deserve any money (or just give it to whoever placed highest I GUESS).
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Apr 13, 2017 22:16
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Ha. There's no money. It's a 3D printed trophy that gets passed around for bragging rights.
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Apr 13, 2017 22:28
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I just realized that last night's episode answered the question of why the editors had been going out of there way to include Jeff making GBS threads on Varner during challenges.
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Apr 13, 2017 23:37
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poo poo. I liked Varner. That was hard to watch. I feel for him, and I hope he grows and learns from this... but drat was that just an awful thing to do to a person. I can't figure out whether that was an exploitative, raw look at a vicious outing, or an inspirational moment, or both. Like, not only am I conflicted about Varner as a person, I'm conflicted about whether or not that was even worth showing. I'm glad they made sure to include that Zeke was hopeful about its airing, rather than wanting to hide it and it being on the show anyway. It sounds like they've been working with GLAAD for a long period of time on this, so I hope this ends up being a net good. drat, though.
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Apr 13, 2017 23:45
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It really sounds like a lovely thing that a person did without thinking. I don't think Varner is as malicious as it came off. I think the shittier takes are those by Corinne, Hantz, and Ice Cream Eric on twitter.
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Apr 13, 2017 23:50
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I saw Fishback's writeup on the whole thing. He pointed out that if Varner had brought it up at any other point in the game, the editors could probably edit around it, since a lot of poo poo gets left on the cutting room floor. But Tribal is like the one place where they can't really maneuver as well since every single person has a mic and camera trained on them.
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Apr 13, 2017 23:51
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Capsaicin posted:It really sounds like a lovely thing that a person did without thinking. I don't think Varner is as malicious as it came off. I think the shittier takes are those by Corinne, Hantz, and Ice Cream Eric on twitter. Dare I even ask for links?
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Apr 13, 2017 23:52
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Capsaicin posted:It really sounds like a lovely thing that a person did without thinking. I don't think Varner is as malicious as it came off. I think the shittier takes are those by Corinne, Hantz, and Ice Cream Eric on twitter. Outing someone on Survivor in an intense moment could be a spur of the moment bad decision. But Varner was clearly planning to do it before the tribal (given that he told the camera he knew a secret of Zeke's etc), so he had plenty of time to think about it. But even if it was a spur of moment decision to out Zeke, he straight-up said that being trans was a deception. That's not a spur of the moment fuckup, that's a poisonous worldview From Zeke in his People interview http://people.com/tv/survivor-transgender-contestant-zeke-smith-outed-tv-exclusive/ quote:“I think he hoped others would believe that trans people are dangerous and fraudulent. That reasoning is infinitely worse than him outing me because it’s the same one used to discriminate against, attack and murder trans people,” Smith says.
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Apr 14, 2017 00:06
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Yeah, all of that makes a lot more sense. I guess I'm just hoping against hope that sometimes people are just dumb and not malicious. :\ Corinne, Erik, and Hantz have all said they think it's a ratings ploy and it was set-up by producers to come out at tribal.
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Apr 14, 2017 00:09
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Capsaicin posted:Corinne, Erik, and Hantz have all said they think it's a ratings ploy and it was set-up by producers to come out at tribal. Well, they can all go gently caress themselves.
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Apr 14, 2017 00:11
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And Varner willingly agreed to the ploy? How much would they have to pay you to do that haha
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Apr 14, 2017 00:11
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Corinne's main reason for thinking this seems to be because the word at the immunity comp was "metamorphosis". 
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Apr 14, 2017 00:18
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Fast Luck posted:And Varner willingly agreed to the ploy? How much would they have to pay you to do that haha Yeah I see no way Varner would agree to that. I'm really not one to ever give a large entity like CBS the benefit of the doubt but if Varner hadn't mentioned it, I really think it never would have come up by CBS at any point during Zeke's two runs.
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Apr 14, 2017 00:19
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As well-known of a show as Survivor is, even if you assume CBS is a malicious entity ready to manufacture a ratings grab, it's a huge leap to assume they're going to go to their workhorse reality show rather than a new show they're trying to get off the ground.
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Apr 14, 2017 00:23
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I think Corinne is probably a little too conspiracy-minded, but I also think that Jeff probably didn't just allude to his plans in confessional. Production was probably very aware of what he planned to do, and I doubt they were mad about it.
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Apr 14, 2017 00:31
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I'm also very very sure it would be illegal tampering on CBS's part under game show law. They hosed up with Jenna Lewis that way in season one, and she got a nice settlement for it. If it ever came out that this was staged, and it would (ugh, phrasing), Survivor is immediately cancelled and several people never find work ever again.
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Apr 14, 2017 00:35
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I doubt it's staged but it's reasonable to think CBS knew exactly what Varner was planning and made no attempt to stop him all for 15 minutes of TV bloggers would go crazy over.
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Apr 14, 2017 00:49
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They really can't stop it because, sadly, there's no way to guarantee it wouldn't have worked within the game. I get the circumstance and what happened was super lovely, but I don't agree with the idea that production should've interfered. Even Zeke himself admitted he was prepared that it could come out at some point, albeit surely not in the manner it ended up coming out.
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Apr 14, 2017 01:35
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Propaganda Machine posted:I'm also very very sure it would be illegal tampering on CBS's part under game show law. They hosed up with Jenna Lewis that way in season one, and she got a nice settlement for it. If it ever came out that this was staged, and it would (ugh, phrasing), Survivor is immediately cancelled and several people never find work ever again. What's this about Jenna?
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Apr 14, 2017 01:36
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i'm at a loss at how to take all of that. like how the gently caress can you think that's ok for even a second? survivor must really gently caress you up. i almost wonder if that's partially why they showed the stuff at the start where everyone talked about how rough it was. to give some perspective. zeke handled it extremely well and i have a lot of respect for him. also for probst for managing that obviously unexpected situation as well as he did.
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Apr 14, 2017 01:42
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 Yeah, this was right after Varner said what he said. He's baffled.
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Apr 14, 2017 01:46
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Arcanen posted:Varner's "strategic reasons" or thinking that Zeke was already out based on the previous season don't mean poo poo. As Zeke himself said, Varner using Zeke's trans status as being evidence of "capability for deception" is seriously transphobic and just as bad if not worse than the fact that he outed Zeke on national TV without his permission. Right. It also reeks of post-hoc rationalization.
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Apr 14, 2017 01:47
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Maybe it was just me, but I'm not even sure the producers knew Varner was going to out Zeke at TC. I mean 'I know something about Zeke nobody else does' is a very vague statement. Especially since Varner himself said that he just picked up on it, Zeke never actually told him he was trans. Of course, choosing to show it and build up to it on national TV is a different story. I'm actually curious what it's going to be for the contestants who weren't at TC, because they're obviously going to ask questions about 'oh hey, how did last tribal go?' at the merge. So I'm not sure if Zeke's going to out himself now to the rest of the contestants since half of them already know (although I'm sure they're all going to not say it til Zeke does out of respect).
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Apr 14, 2017 01:50
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Celery Jello posted:What's this about Jenna? Wasn't it Stacey Stillman that got the settlement, not Jenna?
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Apr 14, 2017 02:06
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Yeah I thought Jenna was the victim of the alphabet strategy.
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Apr 14, 2017 02:08
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Also of course BuzzFeed immediately goes and spreads the news. I'm not sure they've grasped the idea of not publicly outing someone.
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Apr 14, 2017 02:08
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thexerox123 posted:Corinne's main reason for thinking this seems to be because the word at the immunity comp was "metamorphosis". That doesn't even make sense because the season is titled "Game Changers" and changing is the very definition of metamorphosis. Also, the reactions were way to genuine, so if there was collusion then it was strictly between Varner/CBS and that just doesn't make sense either. Finally, I'm sure Zeke knew that it would eventually come out at some point. Either someone would make a connection and approach him during the show, or maybe he would be feel super close to someone and share it, or maybe someone would dig up history and publish it after/during the show. But this is like the shittiest way it could have happened. And I still just don't get how Zeke could be thought of as deceptive for not telling people. I don't even consider myself particularly enlightened about these kind of issues, but it just doesn't make sense to me. I mean sure, if Zeke was starting a relationship with someone and didn't tell them, I could see that being labeled deceptive. But 'hey, are you transgender?' just doesn't seem like something that should be part of 'normal' types of conversations, even with people who are stuck on an island during a very interpersonal game. I mean isn't that the point of the whole thing? Zeke is a guy and he's always been a guy. Wouldn't the real deception be if Zeke was continuing to live as a woman because then he wouldn't be being true to himself?
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Apr 14, 2017 02:12
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ApplesandOranges posted:Also of course BuzzFeed immediately goes and spreads the news. I mean, it's in all kinds of news outlets including with articles and interviews by Zeke, it's not outing him at this point.
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Apr 14, 2017 02:13
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As long as Zeke OK'd it, I think it was good to show it. First, it happened. They would have had to edit out the entire tribal, which would have led to rumors that would be even more damaging to Zeke and give the benefit of the doubt to Varner who is happy to lie about what he said even when I can see it with my own eyes. Second, I think it does a public good (again, if Zeke is ok with it). Hate isn't spread by mustache-twirling victims, it comes from normal-seeming people who hate so casually they may not even know what they are doing. Middle America got to see someone who they already liked and have seen positive framing of, someone who is totally normal and cool, and find out that maybe trans people aren't scary unknowable creatures. They got to see 7-8 people shut Varner down not by screaming at him and calling him an rear end in a top hat, but by calmly destroying his argument and expressing love for Zeke. It would have been better if this had been done on Zeke's own terms, but papering over it isn't the answer IMO
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Apr 14, 2017 02:16
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Not voting was super corny.
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Apr 14, 2017 02:39
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They kind of did, but they didn't write down names.
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Apr 14, 2017 02:45
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Bigass Moth posted:Not voting was super corny. Not really, everybody including Varner knew the outcome of a vote. Nothing wrong with him basically getting kicked off the show instead of them voting.
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Apr 14, 2017 03:08
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I think not voting at that point was the right call. It would have been kinda weird for them to queue up the music for a montage of all of them going up there and proclaiming Varner to be voted out. Plus I think no one was interested in who he would have voted for, it was a done deal.
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Apr 14, 2017 03:33
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Even Varner would have voted for Varner at that point if he could.
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Apr 14, 2017 03:38
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Someone brought up Russel Hantz's twitter. I don't recommend you read it. He always spoils himself on the season so he can make vague statements about the eventual winner all season and then claim that he's a genius who knew what would happen. Just throwing that out there.
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Apr 14, 2017 03:59
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