|
I'm currently feeling under the weather, and cannot laugh without having a little coughing fit. I mention this only to let you know that, if this is my last post, it's because Touch the Skyrim 3.0 has killed me.
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 20:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 14:20 |
|
|
Ariong posted:I'm currently feeling under the weather, and cannot laugh without having a little coughing fit. I mention this only to let you know that, if this is my last post, it's because Touch the Skyrim 3.0 has killed me. nobody needs this many sliders
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 20:26
|
|
|
Poor Miserable Gurgi posted:
I feel like that's absolutely a failure of form if it necessitates a failure in function and in either case isn't really an adequate defense. If the story he wants to tell means we lose all character moments in favor of speeding everyone through some Sliders monologues that's...not good. Like at all. Again, I'm not really willing to give the benefit of the doubt here because almost the exact same problem happened last year with CK, when Griffin had to basically stop the arc multiple times (and create a scenario where the main characters are literally sheparded down a hallway so he could force his narrative into the arc in a semi-organic way) and it created some really, really unlistenable episodes. I don't blame Griffin for trying and I can respect his ambition, and I felt like CK was a failure due to trying for an ultimately noble goal (retrofit a narrative onto a goof podcast) at the cost of podcast enjoyability. However, with the beginning of this most recent arc echoing the same problems CK had a year ago it feels like the characters' narratives and the story's narrative are fundamentally at odds with each other, and it's really unpleasant podcasting as a result.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 20:31
|
|
|
AriadneThread posted:nobody needs this many sliders Every game needs this many sliders. I want to choose exactly how much "Big Aah", "Dialogue Puzzled", and "Left Breast Sagness" my plane in a flight sim has. It's honestly kind of blowing my mind that modders managed to create this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 20:46
|
|
|
Lick! The! Whisk! posted:I feel like that's absolutely a failure of form if it necessitates a failure in function and in either case isn't really an adequate defense. If the story he wants to tell means we lose all character moments in favor of speeding everyone through some Sliders monologues that's...not good. Like at all.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 20:55
|
|
|
hot take i think it is good and fine
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 21:12
|
|
|
Yeah I feel like Griffin's coming at storytelling in TAZ as vaguely video game-y, by which I mean "sometimes there are cutscenes with plot stuff," and that seems perfectly fine to me, so eat it, people who get mad at podcasts!!!
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 21:18
|
|
|
Press conference was definitely the high point of the episode, and Griffin clearly wants to do more character moments, but they're working on finding their footing with the new system. I hope they continue in the vein of the press conference and do it like Campaign does it, where players who don't have characters in the scene take on the voices of those characters so Griffin doesn't end up talking to himself sometimes. For some groups this could be an issue, but given that the Tres Horny Boys enjoy antagonizing each other a little I think they'd get onboard with things pretty fast.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 21:24
|
|
|
timp posted:God help me, the Cheeto Incident is the funniest thing I've ever heard, especially Griffin's reaction to it on last week's Cool Games Inc. Comedy Button is a solid podcast for getting kinda...not much ~insider~ info but more candid/casual conversations from people around the game industry. A bunch of old IGN/Gamespy people just having their friends come over and laugh at horses and tell stories sometimes results in some genuine gold like Adam Sessler talking about the hell G4 was and then talking about finding woods porn as a kid.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 21:30
|
|
|
Luneshot posted:monster factory is over now There are so many middle sliders. Thousands of them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 21:45
|
|
|
Here is my ACTUAL take on the flashback poo poo - I think it's great, and here's why: Griffin has said that he developed this basic story concept by the end of the first arc. And back then, the main characters were just barely becoming actual characters - they were vehicles for Griffin's family to make goofs. So Griffin thought "ooh you know what would be cool? If these guys were secretly mind-wiped scientists from an alternate dimension," and I kind of doubt it even crossed his mind to consider the personal emotional implications of that choice on Magnus, Merle, and Taako. Why would he? Their characters didn't have that kind of weight behind them - and when they launched this game, they weren't attempting to develop characters with that kind of weight behind them. That aspect of the show developed slowly over time, and then the guys grew into their characters and their backstories got fleshed out and they all started to actually genuinely care about it all, and they saw how genuinely invested their fans were getting and it made them get MORE invested, and now Magnus Merle and Taako and a boatload of Griffin's NPCs are genuinely beloved characters and millions of people are dying to find out what happens to them. And even more than that, Travis, Justin, and Clint have themselves become obviously emotionally attached to their characters. And then Griffin found himself in a situation where the entire, pre-existing narrative foundation of the show, which was developed for his brothers and dad to make boner jokes in while pretending to be adventurers, now hinged on totally rewriting the backstories of fully realized and beloved characters who were essentially 'written' by other people without any knowledge of that backstory. And he was going to have a drop a bomb on all three of them and the entire audience and say "...um, actually, the versions of Magnus Merle and Taako you have fallen in love with are not the actual Magnus Merle and Taako, so now you all have to start playing them as essentially different people with different skills, life histories, relationships, knowledge, etc." I mean, jesus, can you even imagine? Once it became clear that the show had evolved beyond the initial concept and Griffin realized all this, he must have started absolutely scrambling for some way to avoid essentially overwriting and erasing all of the main characters. If the show today was still the show it had been back in Gerblins, I think Travis, Justin, and Clint would have been like "woo, awesome, we're space explorers now, what a fun surprise, let’s get on with this final boss battle!" But now it's like, "what impact does this reveal have on the way that my lonely childhood created a foundation for my fundamental distrust of others?" There is no way Griffin could have predicted that this would happen, really. And so he came up with this flashback arc. And I am 100% on board with it, because I personally think it's a great way of threading the needle and giving Travis, Justin, and Clint the agency over their characters which the IPRE reveal would otherwise have taken away. Griffin couldn't have just told them "you lived out this 100-year journey and now you remember all of it" at this point - he had to actually find a way to allow them to live it out themselves, and to have their actions during that time actually matter in some way for the story going forward, in the most efficient way he possibly could. And I have enough confidence in him at this point to believe him when he says that the outcomes of this flashback stuff will actually affect the final showdown. Of the three of them, I think Travis grasped the purpose of all this the most quickly, because he immediately turned himself into a recognizably less mature version of Magnus, in a deliberate contrast to his recent character development. To me that shows that he's embracing the idea that these flashback episodes aren't just exposition dumps - they're a chance for the players to form their own 'memories' rather than having them foisted on them by Griffin. showbiz_liz fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Apr 14, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 21:53
|
|
|
Per Sawbones, Justin is on a low-carb diet. Good on him, but ow that must be brutal. He was musing that there are no good low-carb foods that crunch, and that vegetables do not count because it's a different crunch. I support this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 21:58
|
|
|
I recently found TAZ and have been binging through it! Comments about the Suffering Game! Oh my gosh. I was getting so tired of what felt like a series of railroaded gut punches to characters I love...but holy poo poo, it was all worth it for the Magnus dies -> Taako astral projection -> Merle planar ally, moment. I know Clint gets a lot of poo poo for being 'the worst cleric/d&d player ever', but he is forever redeemed and wonderful in my eyes now. Seluin fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Apr 14, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 22:25
|
|
|
This is a very good post.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 22:46
|
|
|
Oh, hey! Now we know what's up with how they all died a whole bunch of times!
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 23:25
|
|
|
Personally I feel like it's a big change of gears to go from literally the middle of a climactic battle to a multi-episode flashback sequence. That's definitely gonna blue ball some people as far as pacing goes. If they had done one of these "years" as an interlude between chapters, or spaced out through the ending, the pacing would have been a little better. I also really don't need to know the characters history in detail before the events of the story take place. I wouldn't have minded at all if the lost century was left vague. Now we get to go through multiple iterations of the same episode layout multiple times. It's like an entire century of the suffering game. You know it's not gonna turn out well each time they have to jump, but you gotta bear through it. I love hot dogs, but I don't want to see how the hot dogs are made.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 00:01
|
|
|
Touch the Skyrim was a better Skyrim Monster Factory than the actual Skyrim Monster Factory.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 00:17
|
|
|
^^^Accurate. Going into the TAZ endgame I was thinking "Man, Griffin's just going to give them some thing to beat the Hunger since they sure as poo poo don't know how to now." This might be an opportunity for them to come up with a solution, or at least discover the key Griffin had in mind in a marginally less railroadey way.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 00:20
|
|
showbiz_liz posted:Here is my ACTUAL take on the flashback poo poo - I think it's great, and here's why: This stuff is all actively bad though? Like, yes Griffin was a green-as-gently caress DM when he came up with alternate character backstories (that phrase alone gives me douche chills) but he kept playing and, in my opinion, got better as time went on. What I'm saying is that Griffin in 2015 or whatever made a bad call. Griffin in 2017 should have known to drop it.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 00:58
|
|
|
"I think this is good" "no I think this is bad" great discussion
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 01:05
|
|
|
MTV Crib Death posted:What I'm saying is that Griffin in 2015 or whatever made a bad call. Griffin in 2017 should have known to drop it. But if he dropped it, he would also have had to drop the entire explanation for the existence of the Red Robes, the Bureau, and the Relics, or else he'd have had to try to totally retcon essentially every single aspect of the story.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 01:55
|
|
showbiz_liz posted:But if he dropped it, he would also have had to drop the entire explanation for the existence of the Red Robes, the Bureau, and the Relics, or else he'd have had to try to totally retcon essentially every single aspect of the story. I'm not saying don't explain it. Explain it in a way that doesn't remove agency. Don't turn your players into little dolls that you move around prebuilt sets. This is very basic GM stuff.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 02:05
|
|
|
MTV Crib Death posted:I'm not saying don't explain it. Explain it in a way that doesn't remove agency. Don't turn your players into little dolls that you move around prebuilt sets. This is very basic GM stuff. Hey Shut up
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 02:09
|
|
|
MTV Crib Death posted:I'm not saying don't explain it. Explain it in a way that doesn't remove agency. Don't turn your players into little dolls that you move around prebuilt sets. This is very basic GM stuff. okay but like all "basic GM stuff" it's only a problem if your players have a problem with it and in this case they don't so who cares
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 02:11
|
|
|
MTV Crib Death posted:I'm not saying don't explain it. Explain it in a way that doesn't remove agency. Don't turn your players into little dolls that you move around prebuilt sets. This is very basic GM stuff. Jesus dude, loving drop it. Chill.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 02:11
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:okay but like all "basic GM stuff" it's only a problem if your players have a problem with it THIS is the big thing. How can something be bad GMing if the GM and all of the players enjoy it?
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 02:12
|
|
|
The International Congress of Game Masters gave Griffin a bad rap so he is officially a bad GM now sorry guys
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 02:13
|
|
purple death ray posted:Hey Nah. Every bomb rear end moment in this show came from Justin or Clint throwing their brains against obstacles in their path. This format strips that potential away. Edit: posted this before the dogpile. I'll shut up. MTV Crib Death fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Apr 15, 2017 |
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 02:16
|
|
|
There *must* be a tabletop forums thread for podcasts. Can I officially (again) petition that game mechanics discussion be moved to that thread? I wanna talk about good good brothers and good good goofs. Please? vvv this Wake_N_Bake fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Apr 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 02:17
|
|
|
I know I'm not alone in not considering TAZ to be 'a recorded tabletop gaming session'. It's an improvised fantasy adventure podcast that uses tabletop gaming mechanics. I couldn't be further from caring about whether anything on the show would be a good thing to do in an actual RPG session.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 02:22
|
|
|
Wake_N_Bake posted:There *must* be a tabletop forums thread for podcasts. Can I officially (again) petition that game mechanics discussion be moved to that thread? loving seriously.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 02:33
|
|
|
showbiz_liz posted:I know I'm not alone in not considering TAZ to be 'a recorded tabletop gaming session'. It's an improvised fantasy adventure podcast that uses tabletop gaming mechanics. I couldn't be further from caring about whether anything on the show would be a good thing to do in an actual RPG session. This. They flat-out admitted in the last The The Adventure Zone Zone that they sometimes ignore or fabricate dice rolls if the changed roll would be funnier. Basically, they are making an entertaining podcast hung on the skeleton of a D&D game, but from their POV the entertainment is far, far more important than faithfulness to D&D rules and customs. There exist accurate D&D podcasts. TAZ isn't one, and doesn't care that it isn't one.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 02:43
|
|
|
I have liked all the TAZ episodes, both expository-heavy and interaction-heavy, including the Crystal Kingdom arc, and have never been bored soooooooooooooooooooooooo yup
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 02:54
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/lawfulfutch/status/853047034097442816
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 03:02
|
|
|
Big deal. Call me when someone does a cosplay of Sagness Jambone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 03:09
|
|
|
"people who disagree with us should have to post somewhere else!" "by the way have you seen the facebook group? what a bunch of hugboxy losers!"
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 03:33
|
|
|
Ariong posted:I'm currently feeling under the weather, and cannot laugh without having a little coughing fit. I mention this only to let you know that, if this is my last post, it's because Touch the Skyrim 3.0 has killed me. I'm literally sick in bed and I had half a dozen coughing fits watching it. It's both funny and painful.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 03:36
|
|
|
It's nice at least that MBMBaM is consistently excellent enough that we don't have to grouse about it at all
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 03:59
|
|
|
showbiz_liz posted:I know I'm not alone in not considering TAZ to be 'a recorded tabletop gaming session'. It's an improvised fantasy adventure podcast that uses tabletop gaming mechanics. I couldn't be further from caring about whether anything on the show would be a good thing to do in an actual RPG session. IF that's true, and I agree, then this was by-far one of the worst episodes because it allowed for very little-to-no improvising. It was the three main characters describing their actions, rolling a dice, then Griffin reading a short story. Over and over again. Again, this would've been solved entirely if the scenes from the, for lack of a better term, incursions would've been scenes over just going "I do this" "You do that" over and over and over. This episode should've had actual character work instead of overbearing exposition that sucked all dramatic tension or interest from the episode as it felt like complete and utter tell not show. It wasn't entertaining to listen to and was a failure in the exact same way CK was a failure- player agency and improvisation was sidelined for GM fiat and exposition. And let's be clear here. This isn't a DnD game - er, well, it is, but more importantly it's a DnD actual play podcast. As Griffin himself noted in TTAZZ 2, this is meant to, chiefly, appeal to an audience and entertain them, and the absolute worst way to do that is to remove any sense of improvisation or cooperative worldbuilding as one person takes the reins and reads their fiction aloud. It makes for incredibly passive, boring podcasting. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Apr 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 04:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 14:20 |
|
|
Alaois posted:"people who disagree with us should have to post somewhere else!" It's pretty much just you and skeleton man who need to return to your home, in the sewer.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 04:27
|
|
