Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

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Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Arivia posted:

No, no, you were right. My original phrasing was talking about monsters being corroded enough (aka more than a binary state.) What I was saying in response is that you could model it by having decreased corrosion chance for each monster hit by the bolt. 50% for the first monster, if that's successful it hits the second monster, 25% chance to corrode that one and continue through, etc etc.

That's similar to how Bolt of Fire/Cold/Draining operates..

quote:

each target it strikes reduces its max range by 1

# ? Apr 14, 2017 19:54

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# ? May 14, 2024 14:34

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Sage Grimm posted:

That's similar to how Bolt of Fire/Cold/Draining operates..

Right, but this is different. It doesn't always penetrate, it only has a chance to penetrate that drops for each time it's already penetrated.

# ? Apr 14, 2017 20:08

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Arivia posted:

Right, but this is different. It doesn't always penetrate, it only has a chance to penetrate that drops for each time it's already penetrated.

It may work better to make it a non-bolt spell then, maybe as a variation on Searing Ray. I'll try to brainstorm something for it after I'm done with the Charms ones I'm already committed to making (for rejection).

For laughs, who wants to know how accuracy/to-hit works?

quote:

Currently, to calculate player accuracy for both 0.19 and 0.20:
Start with 15
Add floor(dexterity/2)
Add random2(fighting*100+100)/100
If in wisp, fungus, pig, or non-vampire bat form, add random2(XL*100+100)/100
If not in one of the above forms, add random2(weaponskill*100+100)/100 (unarmed is a weapon skill)
If unarmed and not in one of the above forms, add 2. Add an additional 2 if you also have claws.
Add the weapon's enchantment.
Add the weapon's base accuracy.
Add all slaying.
Subtract 3 if starving, bloodless, or fainting. Yes, even as a ghoul.
Subtract armour to-hit penalty and shield to-hit penalty. I will trust you to figure these out yourselves as they are pretty simple.
Subtract 5 if under vertigo.
If you have the eyeballs mutation, add 2*[eyeballs level]+1.
Now set the result to random2(result).
Now subtract 5 if wearing inaccuracy.
Subtract 5 if missing an eye.
Subtract 5 if confused.
Subtract 6 if you cannot see the target.
Add 2+random2(8) (or 1+1d8) if you can see the target and it is backlit (corona, sticky flame, halo without umbra). Note that a haloed and umbraed monster is not considered backlit, but an umbraed and coronaed/sticky flamed monster is.
Subtract 2+random2(4) (or 1+1d4) if you can see the target and it is in an umbra and you do not have night vision.
If it is a melee attack and you are unarmed with confusing touch active, add random2(dexterity).
If it is a melee attack and you are unarmed and transformed, add random2(unarmed_hit_bonus) (you have these enumerated on the page already).
If it is a ranged attack made with portal projectile, add random2([Portal Projectile spell power when you last cast it]).
If it is a ranged attack and the defender has RMsl or DMsl, set the result to random2(result/[2 if deflect missiles, 1 if repel missiles]).

The result is your "to-hit". If this exceeds the monster's EV, that does not mean you will hit. See test_hit.

Since it shows up a lot, random2(N) means set the number to a value from 0 to N-1.

# ? Apr 14, 2017 20:40

LogicNinja: Jan 21, 2011; ...the blur blurs blurringly across the blurred blur in a blur of blurring blurriness that blurred...

I feel like you could get some mileage out of poison spells that do other stuff (the 'toxic glue' that sticks monsters to the ground or to walls is a good idea) and some more out of poison spells that have increasingly powerful effects with repeated castings/successes. You could even give players a poison spell that reduces or eliminates rPois on monsters with enough of a success/enough castings--monsters can do that to us IIRC, why not equalize things?

Acid doesn't have to be irresistible damage, or only irresistible damage. Acid spells could destroy the environment (make floor tiles impassable, remove wall tiles) or create friendly oozes.

# ? Apr 14, 2017 20:57

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

Or a spell that adds some amount of AC piercing damage to your weapon, but corrodes it over time. Maybe have the damage ramp up the more it corrodes it?

# ? Apr 14, 2017 21:21

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

megane posted:

If you come up with a cool spell, nobody's going to give a poo poo what the flavour is.

Then it sounds to me that it's not proscribed at all. Rather, in the devs' experience the people suggesting acid spells are too dumb to sufficiently differentiate them and you are tired of dealing with the same acid->poison spell requests (add Corrosive Bolt and Whatever The Hell Entropy Weavers Cast) again and again.

I don't think we should discourage discussion of acid spells here based on it being on that list. Rather, it should be pointed to for the key issues with adding acid effects as they exist in the game today. I would agree acid in the game today is boring. There's no reason it has to be, and no reason it can't fit under the Poison umbrella given sufficient creativity and imagination.

megane posted:

Really, the problem is that there are 6 different schools focused on dealing damage, differentiated only by a handful of weird spells and what resists them. And it's very easy to splash between them, so even those few differences get bulldozed over by just grabbing spells outside your speciality. There's not really any way to fix this short of completely revamping like 40 different spells, of course.

True, but this is a separate issue across all schools rather than a specific reason to discourage change in one. Things are not so bad overall that one small part cannot be improved.

If there are too many book starts, remove Venom Mage and thus end the thousand natural shocks that bad features are heir to. Young Poisoners becomes just another book.

If there are not too many, then it's good to add differentiation and viability to Venom Mage. As long as it's done, you know, classy.

Honestly, the whole Rejected Concepts page reads like an exasperate dad's litany of things he's tired of the kids asking for. I think it should be taken that way rather than being the ironclad word of THULSA DOOM.

# ? Apr 14, 2017 22:22

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Araganzar posted:

I am having the roughest game and I don't know how to salvage it
code:
araganzar the Severer (Hill Orc Summoner)          Turns: 32086, Time: 02:26:20
Health: 138/138    AC: 32    Str: 18    XL:     17   Next: 16%
Magic:  1/36       EV: 13    Int: 23    God:    Hepliaklqana [******]
Gold:   1283       SH:  0    Dex: 18    Spells: 8 memorised, 10 levels left
 
rFire  + . .      SeeInvis .    a - +7 broad axe
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    D - +4 chain mail {rF+}
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    (no shield)
rPois  .          Spirit   .    h - +3 hat of Pondering {ponderous, MR+ MP+10 In
rElec  .          Reflect  .    J - +0 cloak
rCorr  .          Harm     .    w - +2 pair of gloves
MR     ++...                    y - +2 pair of boots
Stlth  ..........               z - amulet of regeneration {+regen, !d}
                                u - ring of the Aged Dances {Int+3 Dex+7}
                                T - +3 ring of protection
This is the worst setup I have ever had post Orc and Lair. I'm on Shoals 2 and:
- no decent broad or battle axe found
- no other appealing weapons
- no ego cloak, gloves, or boots
- only ego helm is Pondering
- no evocable rage or invis
- best shield is a +0 buckler
- only artefact weapon in game is a crappy distort flail that abyssed me

My resists are horrible:
- only swap rings are rc and sInv
- only MR in the game is on the Hat of Pondering
- only rPois is the +2 robe "Heilodd" {rPois Int+4 Dex-4} (306 gold)
- only other artefact armor is +0 scale with *Corrode
- only artefact jewerly is the amulet of Icrateym {Inacc rC+ Str+4} (350 gold)
- only rElec is lol sorry what's rElec we never heard of that

How am I supposed to do anything without rPois, rElec, or MR? I am getting rocked by basic encounters in shoals and using up my teleports on others. My other branch is Snake which is goddamn impossible right now. Down to 2 pots of curing (thanks, no rpois or MR!). Sojobo is camping Depths entry.

1 enchant armor, no enchant weapon, no advanced spell books. I am thinking about putting on guardian spirit, getting spec weapon up, using a +3 drain battleaxe, and trying to power through Shoals 1-3 and Elf 1-2 to see if I get anything that helps me advance. Any thoughts?

A +7 broad axe is quite good, though. And draining is a good brand if you want to go 2H, though honestly I would probably stick with the +7 broad axe myself. But that's if I was using a shield-you aren't, and presumably you don't want to be because you're using spells.

You also have innate rF from your body armor, which you don't always get... and you shouldn't be expecting to always get rPois or MR+ items, and especially not rElec, which is quite rare. Stacked resists will only sometimes happen and assuming you will have them after lair is assuming a crutch the game will not always give you. And hat of pondering is not actually bad, remember that one level of pondering just makes you 0.1 slower. That means you have to move 10 tiles before it makes any difference at all, it's rare past the earlygame that slightly slower movement actually fucks you assuming you are not reckless.
If you are getting wrecked by basic shoals encounters with a +7 13 base damage weapon and 32 AC, you're doing something wrong. rPois shouldn't matter much in shoals(rC is significantly more useful vs. aquamancers, which are one of the most dangerous enemies there) and as long as you play carefully snake is absolutely completable without it.

Always remember to be careful about engaging enemies. As a rule of thumb, don't usually move towards them, especially if they're in a group. Break LoS and let them come around a corner to you. Play around stairs whenever possible.

What summons do you have? Do you have hex wands to deal with shock serpents? If you do, it might be worth training evo a bit while you do shoals, then doing snake afterwards and using confuse/paralyze/etc wands on shock serpents.

LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Apr 14, 2017

# ? Apr 14, 2017 22:24

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

Darox posted:

I don't think you especially need any of those resistances for snake 1-3 if you're even halfway good at killing things. The only condition is taking it slowly because shock serpents are jerks that definitely need to be isolated when missing rElec.

I'd say Shoals > Snake > Elf unless you'd have to gatecrash a stair party or there are a ton of merfolk avatars/satyrs.

I agree but you say that like isolating a speed 15 snake that almost always rolls with other fast snakes is a thing. Hep makes it easier but also makes killholes harder.

TBQH, the few times I've done snake without rPois I had tons of cures and needed them to live. And my EV is low which means eating TONS of poison breath.

What about Vaults? I would probably do Shoals -> Vaults -> Snake -> Elf because resists aren't as hard a stop in Vaults.

edit: sweet, got an acquirement and got +1 boots of stealth, no shops in vaults, one food shop in Elf. Still no rPois or rElec

Araganzar fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Apr 15, 2017

# ? Apr 14, 2017 22:32

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

IronicDongz posted:

You also have innate rF from your body armor, which you don't always get... and you shouldn't be expecting to always get rPois or MR+ items, and especially not rElec, which is quite rare.

Usually by my 2nd rune rPois will be a gear choice rather than a hard gate. If I don't have rPois I should have something else (a great weapon, regen, coverage in other resistance areas) to help make up for it.

IronicDongz posted:

If you are getting wrecked by basic shoals encounters with a +7 13 base damage weapon and 32 AC, you're doing something wrong. rPois shouldn't matter much in shoals(rC is significantly more useful vs. aquamancers, which are one of the most dangerous enemies there) and as long as you play carefully snake is absolutely completable without it.

No reason to sacrifice AC for rC in shoals. Primal Wave is not Cold so the only reason to have rC against an aquamancer is the resistible component of Throw Icicle.

32 AC and 13 EV? No, you don't have to do anything wrong to get wrecked in Shoals like that. Manticores hit consistently with barbs and at least in my shoals they are all over the place, as are Satyrs, Sirens, and Avatars against which MR++ might as well be nothing. Almost everything moves 0.6 on water and there is a lot of water. So I'm constantly presented with situations where cover is rare, movement is extremely limited, and my options are fight or use a teleport. No blink, not to mention no evocable flight and very few potions so fighting in water is common as is having to move several times to stay on land.

I can tell very easily I don't have the tools. I've picked up spec weapon and regen and switched to Guardian Spirit since I have 10MP from Pondering. The hex wands are a good idea although they aren't much good against the naga. Shock Serpents are a big enough threat that it might be worth it. I just have 0 evocations and everything I have is going into defenses and axes. To be quite honest Spec Weapon + Transference is doing a great job letting me end stuff like Avatars. I just didn't have the DPS before Spec Weapon.

Araganzar fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Apr 14, 2017

# ? Apr 14, 2017 22:55

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Stairs in Tomb converted to trapdoors/hatches with fixed destination landing points, corresponding trapdoor/hatch to return is spawned somewhere within 12 tiles of the landing point.

:yikes:

E: My opinion is that non-Torment immune/resistant players are going to want to use a ring of teleportation to skip into the hallway on Tomb:1 by locking onto one of the enemies inside, since it will likely be safer than the normal entrance to Tomb:2. Tomb:3 actually becomes somewhat nicer due to the introduction of doors to the treasure chambers to actually allow retreat and LOS blocking, so that isn't as much of a concern. Avoid the main chamber of Tomb:2 at all costs.

Floodkiller fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Apr 15, 2017

# ? Apr 15, 2017 00:00

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

I didn't know this was being worked on but any changes to Tomb that make it less tedious (even if it makes it harder) is very welcome because it was mind-numbing.

This is long-term healthy for Tomb's design.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 00:03

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

Araganzar posted:

I agree but you say that like isolating a speed 15 snake that almost always rolls with other fast snakes is a thing. Hep makes it easier but also makes killholes harder.

TBQH, the few times I've done snake without rPois I had tons of cures and needed them to live. And my EV is low which means eating TONS of poison breath.

What about Vaults? I would probably do Shoals -> Vaults -> Snake -> Elf because resists aren't as hard a stop in Vaults.

I thought shock serpents were a solo spawn. All the other snakes definitely spawn in packs but I've never seen a shock serpent with them. They can spawn near those packs, but that's different.
The serious poison threats in snake are PArrow and OTR, I've never had poison spit be a serious problem, especially with regeneration.
I was ignoring vaults because of the rune lock, but between sentinels and wardens I'd still do snake first.

Floodkiller posted:

Stairs in Tomb converted to trapdoors/hatches with fixed destination landing points, corresponding trapdoor/hatch to return is spawned somewhere within 12 tiles of the landing point.

Guess Tomb won't be my regular choice for 4th rune anymore. Big congrats to Tar and Cocy on their promotion.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 00:19

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

Darox posted:

Guess Tomb won't be my regular choice for 4th rune anymore. Big congrats to Tar and Cocy on their promotion.

You were doing Tomb over Abyss/Slime?

# ? Apr 15, 2017 00:26

Decrepus: May 21, 2008; In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.

Imagine if every endgame threat wasn't an enemy that had Torment lol

# ? Apr 15, 2017 00:27

brennon: Sep 15, 2004

Floodkiller posted:

Stairs in Tomb converted to trapdoors/hatches with fixed destination landing points, corresponding trapdoor/hatch to return is spawned somewhere within 12 tiles of the landing point.

E: My opinion is that non-Torment immune/resistant players are going to want to use a ring of teleportation to skip into the hallway on Tomb:1 by locking onto one of the enemies inside, since it will likely be safer than the normal entrance to Tomb:2. Tomb:3 actually becomes somewhat nicer due to the introduction of doors to the treasure chambers to actually allow retreat and LOS blocking, so that isn't as much of a concern. Avoid the main chamber of Tomb:2 at all costs.

Haha yeah dude. I love casting fire storm as a mummy- *is whispered something from off screen*- it's come to my attention not everyone spams firestorm and is torment immune. Not sure about this change frankly.

Decrepus posted:

Imagine if every endgame threat wasn't an enemy that had Torment lol

Yeah, I kind of wish there'd be some innovation regarding endgame threats and torment/hellfire spam, it's really tiresome and repetitive in and of itself. The stair dancing in tomb is merely a symptom of this torment/unresistable damage style of design, although actually segmenting it into hallways or providing cover on the landing spot might make it less silly.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 00:42

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

SKULL.GIF posted:

This is long-term healthy for Tomb's design.

The problem with half-measures is that they never get made into full reforms.

Go all-in on fixing Tomb, don't let gammafunk just make it harder without addressing the underlying issues.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 01:08

megane: Jun 20, 2008

"never"

Try playing it once before complaining about it.

Also I think "addressing the underlying issues" is exactly what he's doing.

megane fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Apr 15, 2017

# ? Apr 15, 2017 01:10

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

The stair dancing in Tomb is actually a symptom of its layout more than anything. At two separate points (three with a certain T1 corridor layout) there are huge ambushes immediately camping the stairways and most characters can't take a sustained fight against 5+ priests and greater mummies. Nobody* stairdances the entry gate, nobody* stairdances the hells.

_{*HOM obviously still lures to their hearts delight but it's a lot less egregious than stairdancing}

SKULL.GIF posted:

You were doing Tomb over Abyss/Slime?

Slime is filled with corrosion, mutation, and annoying walls. If I was having trouble with the unholy zones I might do it for the XP/loot but otherwise I'd rather put it off.

The Abyss is an awful place with bad rewards. The only reasons to go get the abyss rune are A: You get banished and find it before the exit, B: You're ignoring the usual procession and need it for a rune lock or C: You already have 14 runes.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 02:40

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Abyss is definitely easier than pan/hell, at least.

Also I absolutely do stairdance hell sometimes on characters who aren't stacked

# ? Apr 15, 2017 02:46

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

Stairdancing Hell is definitely a thing what with the huge open ambush, but I was referring to Tar/Dis/Coc/Geh. The stair mechanics and hell effects make dancing in the separate hells impractical, let alone the fact that the stairs and runevault are usually on opposite sides of the map

# ? Apr 15, 2017 03:19

Devlan Mud: Apr 10, 2006; I'll hear your stories when we come back, alright?

Man I'm sure removing stairs from Tomb will totally lead to reform in that branch just like the removal of rMut led to Malmutate reform!

# ? Apr 15, 2017 03:22

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Devlan Mud posted:

Man I'm sure removing stairs from Tomb will totally lead to reform in that branch just like the removal of rMut led to Malmutate reform!

They got rid of cMut, that totally changes Malmutate :nyoron:

# ? Apr 15, 2017 03:25

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Darox posted:

Stairdancing Hell is definitely a thing what with the huge open ambush, but I was referring to Tar/Dis/Coc/Geh.

I was too.

It's slow but sometimes smart.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 03:28

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

megane posted:

"never"

Try playing it once before complaining about it.

Also I think "addressing the underlying issues" is exactly what he's doing.

Oh yeah, let me just whip together a Tomb-ready character. Get back to you in five.

The underlying issues are the the death curses, torments, and ambushes. Not the only effective way to deal with them.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 04:04

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

Has anything been done on the Zin front w/r/t new mutation yet

# ? Apr 15, 2017 04:45

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
...

it's not like people need to 'try out' the tomb change to understand it, anyways. i'm sure most of the posters here have done tomb before and are well aware of what the change does.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 05:29

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Samog posted:

Has anything been done on the Zin front w/r/t new mutation yet

Well, if you're asking if they remembered that Holy Pan shouldn't give you potions of mutation because Zin disapproves, the answer is yes! It now replaces them all with cancellation.

If you're asking the rather more important question, whether there's any way for a worshipper of Zin to remove a bad mutation since they can't drink the shuffle mutations potion, the answer is no. (Except once, at max piety, but that's not new.)

Prism fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Apr 15, 2017

# ? Apr 15, 2017 05:35

Bob NewSCART: Feb 1, 2012; Outstanding afternoon. "I've often said there's nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse."

I haven't played this in forever. Maybe since .11 or .12? It was right around when the devs were debating what to do about melee being inferior to spellcasting and added some special abilities to all the different melee weapon types I believe?

How much has changed since then? I imagine a whole poo poo load. How is melee nowadays and is web titles vastly improved ?

# ? Apr 15, 2017 05:38

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

Putting on a huge suit of armor and swinging a huge axe around is the easiest way to play

# ? Apr 15, 2017 05:39

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Johnny Joestar posted:

it's not like people need to 'try out' the tomb change to understand it, anyways. i'm sure most of the posters here have done tomb before and are well aware of what the change does.

I'm actually not. I mean, I think I do, but surely its not being communicated properly cause what it proposes is pointless. None of those changes actually make it preferable to not stair dance. It just makes it way harder. People only stairdance in Tomb because its a loving nightmare to try and clear unless you happen to be immune to torment. The enemies are impossible to kill without being tormented due to mummy death curses. There's also a ton of smiting that adds up over time and plenty of chaff to keep you from eliminating the threats causing this quickly.

So if I were to do Tomb now, I would just run to an escape hatch as soon as I go down one. Then I'd fight until I need to retreat and go up the hatch. In other words, stairdancing, just way for inefficient. But its not like you have any other loving option since any other strategy will just get you killed if you don't have a specific build tailored to crushing Tomb.

I really don't think Tomb can be made fun without an enemy overhaul because lets face it, dozens of mummy priests and greater mummies is not fun to clear. Making Tomb harder without actually addressing this is

well

I'm gonna be blunt; its really loving dumb.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 05:45

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
...

mostly i meant that the tomb stair change is pretty immediately obvious in what the specific change is and what it's doing and trying to cut down on, so the idea of us needing to actually play through it first to complain about it is kind of stupid. it's a dumb bandaid solution to cut down on a thing that was a symptom of the actual problem, that being tomb having a bunch of really goddamn annoying enemies that mostly demand specific tactics to take care of if you don't want a headache.

because it's not fun. tomb just seriously isn't fun and hasn't been for the longest time. i'll believe it when i see it if this is somehow the first step of a giant, sweeping revamp of how tomb plays out, but for now it's just going 'actually, you were playing this segment where a bunch of leathery assholes deathfuck your character repeatedly wrong, so we're taking away normal staircases'

# ? Apr 15, 2017 06:00

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

The Tomb staircase changes were also accompanied by changes to where the stairs placed you and I haven't seen any responses yet that actually addressed this difference.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 06:04

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

Do the stairs not put you in the "entrance" areas of the different floors like the old stairs would? Can you potentially land directly in the loot vaults on tomb 3 now?

# ? Apr 15, 2017 09:52

Mu.: Sep 15, 2003; The thing about Forevereal Modding Mu is that he loves editing files and wants others to download his permanent mods. Fully editing, rich text, altering files and loving it. Download his mods and enjoy it.

Zin should lose his current mutation resistance, and gain a different kind of mutation resistance that forces malmutate to give you temporary mutations instead of permanent ones.

Like you're so full of Zin's Zest that your body is naturally healing away mutations, or whatever.

Higher piety means shorter duration.

His one-time cure would be to remove permanent mutations you might have gained prior to converting.

Imo.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 12:22

Devlan Mud: Apr 10, 2006; I'll hear your stories when we come back, alright?

Remove Zin'a one-time removal and put random mutation removal on a gift/piety timer in my opinion.

E: replace his mutation resistance with polymorph immunity or something if you want, too.

Devlan Mud fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Apr 15, 2017

# ? Apr 15, 2017 13:20

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

Distill Zin's essence into a potion. We can call them Potions of Cure Mutation.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 13:21

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

SKULL.GIF posted:

The Tomb staircase changes were also accompanied by changes to where the stairs placed you and I haven't seen any responses yet that actually addressed this difference.

I'm honestly not sure how it would matter, since the enemy types stayed the same. So you're rushed by a billion mummies that torment you literally as fast as you can kill them in a differeny hallway now, and this is more fun because...?

# ? Apr 15, 2017 13:39

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Well the layout for the Tomb ambushes appears to be completely unchanged. I'm not keen on not having an out for such an immediately dangerous entrance in Tomb 2; the commit says 12 tiles from the start of the first hatch to the escape one. And it doesn't change how you would approach the fight either, you would still aim to be on or close to the hatch to Tomb 1 before settling in for a fight.

Tomb 3 is not an immediate danger and the addition of the doors to short-circuit your way back to the escape hatches is a Good Change, because you won't have the 6-tile long hallway as your only recourse for fighting through the Tomb enemies. And having to bail means you have a chunk of enemies drawn into that side so it will (hopefully) not be a cluster gently caress trying to resettle in the opposite treasure room for the second round.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 14:46

funmanguy: Apr 20, 2006; What time is it?

I just downloaded the singleplayer version of the game and did the tutorial and two quick rounds. First was as a centaur with a bow, got to the fourth floor and ended up dying to some dude with a holy mace or something. I tried kiting him around forever and barely dented his health so I just switched to a sword to try and manmode him, and promptly got splated. Next round was as a troll berserker, ran into some magical cat thing on the second floor and got Imped to death.

I am having fun and have no loving idea what im doing.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 19:22

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# ? May 14, 2024 14:34

dyzzy: Dec 22, 2009; argh

If you have the opportunity, try playing on one of the online servers. It can be fun to have an audience giving advice.

# ? Apr 15, 2017 22:10

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