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mandatory lesbian posted:mcmagic did nothing wrong well done with the subtle hitler comparison
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Apr 15, 2017 03:53
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End of Life Guy posted:well done with the subtle hitler comparison The meme has evolved beyond Hitler, End of Life Guy
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Apr 15, 2017 03:55
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Ein Sexmonster posted:It's a core mechanic for green and black? To kill their own dudes?
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Apr 15, 2017 04:05
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Injuryprone posted:To kill their own dudes? That's not what the cards do.
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Apr 15, 2017 04:05
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Injuryprone posted:To kill their own dudes? "Greatness, at any cost" Also, plenty of stuff removes them or triggers when one is placed that it won't be a total drawback.
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Apr 15, 2017 04:07
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Count Bleck posted:Guys I've been playing Persona 5 for the past 3 days what's the take on this set overall? Magic the Gathering continues to be a worse game than Persona 5
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Apr 15, 2017 04:24
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Injuryprone posted:To kill their own dudes? That's not what these cards but actually yes black frequently kills its own dudes
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Apr 15, 2017 04:34
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Even without the exile clause, it wouldn't be the same game object that was discarded, since it went to the stack. Something is off here. Either it goes to the graveyard by way of exile, or by way of exile then the stack. So in both cases it's indirect and by your logic couldn't be found. Except the release notes say it doesn't work that way...
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Apr 15, 2017 07:49
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Something is off here. Huh, you're right, the release notes say if you don't cast the exiled card, Shadow of the Grave can retrieve it even though it should have become a new game object when it moved from exile to the graveyard. I have no explanation for why that's the case.
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Apr 15, 2017 09:10
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Edit: nah, this would mean a flickered creature would be the same one that left the battlefield. Yah that just doesn't make sense StrugglingHoneybun fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Apr 15, 2017 |
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Apr 15, 2017 12:22
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Huh, you're right, the release notes say if you don't cast the exiled card, Shadow of the Grave can retrieve it even though it should have become a new game object when it moved from exile to the graveyard. I have no explanation for why that's the case. Since madness is probably the only instance in which a card can leave the game momentarily before returning, they can change the way the rules refer to it in order to work with Shadow of the Grave the way they wanted it to.
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Apr 15, 2017 15:50
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It doesn't work under the rules absent an obscure rule we aren't considering. The rules control, so the release note is wrong even though you'd have to be at like a PT appealing to a Level 5 head judge before you could expect that kind of Magical Constitutional Law to ever work in your favor. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Apr 15, 2017 |
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Apr 15, 2017 16:14
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Are you guys sure that none of the exceptions for rule 400.7 apply here? http://magiccards.info/rule/400-general.html
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Apr 15, 2017 16:36
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I feel like there has to be something that overrides that because by that logic every card you discard, thus moving it from the Hand Zone to the Graveyard Zone, would become a new object upon changing zones right? Which means that Shadow of the Grave would actually do nothing?
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Apr 15, 2017 17:19
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Shadow of The Grave say 'cards', so I think that means it tracks the cardboard itself and not the game objects?
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Apr 15, 2017 17:19
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Further complicating hypothetical: suppose I discard Basking Rootwalla, cast it with Madness, sacrifice it to Viscera Seer, and then cast Shadow of the Grave. Do I get my Rootwalla back?
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Apr 15, 2017 17:31
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sit on my Facebook posted:Further complicating hypothetical: suppose I discard Basking Rootwalla, cast it with Madness, sacrifice it to Viscera Seer, and then cast Shadow of the Grave. Do I get my Rootwalla back? No, because it entered the graveyard from the field and was not discarded.
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Apr 15, 2017 17:54
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Bonus posted:Are you guys sure that none of the exceptions for rule 400.7 apply here? http://magiccards.info/rule/400-general.html None of them seem to apply to Shadow of the Grave. sit on my Facebook posted:I feel like there has to be something that overrides that because by that logic every card you discard, thus moving it from the Hand Zone to the Graveyard Zone, would become a new object upon changing zones right? Which means that Shadow of the Grave would actually do nothing? The new game object knows that "being discarded" is how it entered the graveyard, just like Rebound spells know whether or not they were cast from your hand. Madness is different because only the object in exile should remember being discarded; moving from exile to graveyard should remove that memory, and the object in the graveyard should just remember that it was put there from the exile zone. sit on my Facebook posted:Further complicating hypothetical: suppose I discard Basking Rootwalla, cast it with Madness, sacrifice it to Viscera Seer, and then cast Shadow of the Grave. Do I get my Rootwalla back? Release notes say that if you do cast the spell with Madness, you can't get it back. mossyfisk posted:Shadow of The Grave say 'cards', so I think that means it tracks the cardboard itself and not the game objects? Cards are what the game objects represented by physical cards are called except on the battlefield (where they're permanents) and on the stack (where they're spells). The release notes specifically say that if you do cast the spell with Madness and it goes to the graveyard afterward (whether because it's an instant/sorcery or because you sacrificed the permanent it became), Shadow of the Grave won't be able to get it back. If it was tracking physical cards instead of game objects, Shadow in the Grave could retrieve those too.
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Apr 15, 2017 18:28
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mossyfisk posted:Shadow of The Grave say 'cards', so I think that means it tracks the cardboard itself and not the game objects? No, and the reason Madness works is the same reason why this is the case: "Discarded this turn" is a trait that cards in your yard can have. They become a new object when they change zones; when you discard a card, it moves to your graveyard and becomes a "discarded card." People are confusing two things: 1) the act of discarding a card, a game action that triggers Megrim and similar 2) the trait of having been discarded this turn, a trait that only cards in your graveyard can have and that almost nothing cares about (but now something does). As the cards arrive in your yard they become cards you discarded this turn. This applies even to madness cards because if you don't cast them they go to your graveyard and gain the trait "discarded this turn." This trait is only gained upon arrival in the yard so it doesn't matter that they went through more than the expected one zone change.
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Apr 15, 2017 18:34
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:This applies even to madness cards because if you don't cast them they go to your graveyard and gain the trait "discarded this turn." Why?
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Apr 15, 2017 18:39
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I have a hankering to try BR Hellbent this standard due to all the silly madness poo poo and Shadow ofthe Grave.
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Apr 15, 2017 18:40
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Because the process that put them in the yard was the result of a discard. The object becomes a new object, just as it does when you discard a regular card from your hand, but the process that moved the card to your yard was a discard, which is what matters. Note that if you discarded a card with madness, it was exiled, and you responded to the madness trigger with a pull from eternity, it would not be a card you discarded this turn, because the process that put it in your yard was the result of a resolving card, not a discard.
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Apr 15, 2017 18:44
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So if you discard Fiery Temper and cast it for R, does the Fiery Temper become a "discarded card"?
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Apr 15, 2017 18:47
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Discard card -> (Madness Triggers, enters THE MADNESS ZONE , you may now cast your spell, if you choose to cast it, put it on the stack, then back into THE MADNESS ZONE , leave this irrelevant point in discard. If you don't cast, continue as normal.) -> Put your card in the graveyard, where it wound up as a result of discarding. Edit: So in regards to that 2 drop that makes the total of -1/-1 counters you put on your creatures one less, how does that work with Persist? Do they just hit the board with no counter or is it business usual? Melira 9-12 sounds dumb and stupid in Abzan company so I'm guessing it doesn't work that way. Count Bleck fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Apr 15, 2017 |
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Apr 15, 2017 18:49
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Because the process that put them in the yard was the result of a discard. The object becomes a new object, just as it does when you discard a regular card from your hand, but the process that moved the card to your yard was a discard, which is what matters. The process that put them in the yard is the Madness ability.
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Apr 15, 2017 19:11
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Count Bleck posted:Edit: So in regards to that 2 drop that makes the total of -1/-1 counters you put on your creatures one less, how does that work with Persist? Pretty sure they just come back as normal. And abzan company doesn't max out on the available 8 so it seems fine.
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Apr 15, 2017 19:30
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Count Bleck posted:Discard card -> (Madness Triggers, enters THE MADNESS ZONE , you may now cast your spell, if you choose to cast it, put it on the stack, then back into THE MADNESS ZONE , leave this irrelevant point in discard. If you don't cast, continue as normal.) -> Put your card in the graveyard, where it wound up as a result of discarding. Pontius Pilate posted:Pretty sure they just come back as normal. And abzan company doesn't max out on the available 8 so it seems fine.  The secret is that in addition to being your copies of Melira it goes infinite with Devoted Druid in the deck and allows you to tutor out the green god with Chord/CoCo into it to give everyone infinite attack
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Apr 15, 2017 19:48
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TheKingofSprings posted:
I imagine people end up going 3/1 or 4/1 vizier/anafenza, so that you can still put infinite counters on your team with both. We'll finally be playing Podless Meliraless Melira Pod. EDIT: 
uninverted fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Apr 15, 2017 |
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Apr 15, 2017 20:15
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Speculators are a blight on society.
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Apr 15, 2017 20:39
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Some Numbers posted:Speculators are a blight on society. They deserve to be heckled at every opportunity.
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Apr 15, 2017 20:42
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I managed to get a set of Devoted Druids yesterday at a card shop for $4.50 only because they were still in a massive box of commons and uncommons that I sold to them in 2014 and because the owner isn't a dick.
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Apr 15, 2017 20:53
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I got a playset for $4 yesterday because I actually play company and I knew this poo poo would happen. Wonder if it'll even be a decent variant on regular company.
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Apr 15, 2017 21:14
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I got a playset for $4 yesterday because I actually play company and I knew this poo poo would happen. Wonder if it'll even be a decent variant on regular company. You have to play 3 bad cards (Druid, not-Melira, and the god) compared to 2 (Melira and Viscera Seer) in normal Company and you don't get the upside of being able to stack your deck so you also need to have a Chord or the god in hand.
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Apr 15, 2017 21:20
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Looking at cards that were explicitly designed to work with Madness yet keep track of the information of the card like Wolf of Devil's Breach, I don't think it's that much different from how some effects use the last known information of a creature that died, even though that exact game object no longer exists.
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Apr 15, 2017 21:27
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Druid does have the upside that it can be +2 on a Chord of Calling
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Apr 15, 2017 21:28
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suicidesteve posted:You have to play 3 bad cards (Druid, not-Melira, and the god) compared to 2 (Melira and Viscera Seer) in normal Company and you don't get the upside of being able to stack your deck so you also need to have a Chord or the god in hand. I don't think the god is a bad card at all in this deck and you only need one copy. It's five slots you have to spend on infinite mana that you'd otherwise use for voice of resurgence or extra utility creatures or whatever, since the vizier replaces meliras and anafenzas. The vizier package also has the significant upside of being a combo you can company into that doesn't use the graveyard at all.
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Apr 15, 2017 21:39
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suicidesteve posted:You have to play 3 bad cards (Druid, not-Melira, and the god) compared to 2 (Melira and Viscera Seer) in normal Company and you don't get the upside of being able to stack your deck so you also need to have a Chord or the god in hand. The God is fine as a single and the deck runs 2 EWit to buyback Chords, just treat the Druids like you would Wall of Roots
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Apr 15, 2017 21:39
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The other nice part of the combo is both pieces being two CMC, which means you can buy back either with the revolt man E: I'm looking on Salvation and Duskwatch Recruiter/Ballista seem interesting in the deck TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Apr 15, 2017 |
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Apr 15, 2017 21:43
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suicidesteve posted:You have to play 3 bad cards (Druid, not-Melira, and the god) compared to 2 (Melira and Viscera Seer) in normal Company and you don't get the upside of being able to stack your deck so you also need to have a Chord or the god in hand. If you play duskwatch recruiter instead of the god you can stack your deck (add a single elvish visionary and you can even draw that top card).
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Apr 15, 2017 22:10
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little munchkin posted:If you play duskwatch recruiter instead of the god you can stack your deck (add a single elvish visionary and you can even draw that top card). Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you can just draw every creature in your deck with recruiter and infinite mana, no visionary required.
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Apr 15, 2017 22:17
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