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I lost interest in DS1 a bit after Anor Londo and DS3 just before Yhorm and it took me about a year for each game to come back to it and finish it. I finished DS2 in one shot, but I still hold pretty much all the same reservations and criticisms about it as has already been expressed in this thread. DS2 went through a period of being underrated and I think people are overcompensating swinging it the other way. It's as flawed as the other games in the series.
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Apr 16, 2017 05:56
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skasion posted:Crucial point is that neither zone habitually led to a fun experience for the summon, and because neither zone is mandatory or has any super compelling rewards  Santier's Spear. I pretty much always run through both.
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Apr 16, 2017 05:59
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Oh yeah its definitely flawed. I put all of the Souls games on equal footing honestly. But when DS2 came out so many people acted like it was some travesty after DS1. Its nice that people are starting to look back more fondly on it.
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Apr 16, 2017 05:59
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Internet Kraken posted:Oh yeah its definitely flawed. I put all of the Souls games on equal footing honestly. But when DS2 came out so many people acted like it was some travesty after DS1. Its nice that people are starting to look back more fondly on it.  That's the Internet in a nutshell I guess.
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Apr 16, 2017 06:04
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Internet Kraken posted:Oh yeah its definitely flawed. I put all of the Souls games on equal footing honestly. But when DS2 came out so many people acted like it was some travesty after DS1. Its nice that people are starting to look back more fondly on it. Like I've said before: if they had filed the serial numbers off and called it Fallen Kingdom or Memory: Road of Forgotten or whatever, then it would have had an immensely better reception. It was too different from what a lot of people were expecting from a Dark Souls sequel, and those preconceived notions made it difficult for them to enjoy the game as-is. As it stands, time and the quality of the DLCs has gotten people to look back and appreciate the game for what it was. SKULL.GIF posted:DS2 went through a period of being underrated and I think people are overcompensating swinging it the other way. It's as flawed as the other games in the series. It's flawed, sure, but its flaws don't get too much in the way of the overall gameplay. Agility was a garbage-rear end idea, soul memory sucks for PVPing, the covenants are a mess, there's a bunch of hosed up hitboxes, etc. All of these are more annoyances than serious detriments, whereas DS1's Kinetoscope framerate and ungainly controls make trying to go back and play it feel downright awful. Vermain fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 06:13
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Someone in this thread suggested it should've been called Demon's Souls 2, which in many ways is pretty apt.
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Apr 16, 2017 06:19
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I think Dark Souls 2 had the worst base game but awesome DLC (except for the optional areas). Also the slickest armor sets.
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Apr 16, 2017 06:29
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DS2 has really ugly textures and agility is stupid and the lack of ragdoll physics on enemies makes killing mooks way less enjoyable than in the other games. and it took until SOTFS to have permanently respawning enemies and soul memory is stupid. and the dlcs really arent as good as everyone says. source i've platinumed both vanilla ds2 and sotfs.
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Apr 16, 2017 06:31
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CuddlyZombie posted:and it took until SOTFS to have permanently respawning enemies and soul memory is stupid. I'm almost positive that infinite respawning has been in since the game's release, so long as you're in the Covenant of Champions. (edit: double checked; it was in the SotFS patch. it's incredible that was nearly two-odd years ago) Also, the DLCs are great, and are probably the best content in all of the DS series.
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Apr 16, 2017 06:40
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You could have enemies respawn by using an ascetic or join CoC in the base game. Also Brume Tower is still the best area in the entire series.
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Apr 16, 2017 06:41
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the best dark souls dlc is bitterblack isle from dragon's dogma
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Apr 16, 2017 06:41
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Vermain posted:Twin Dragonriders is an obnoxious fight because of how doing this one thing makes the fight about ten thousand times easier, but your chance of actually figuring it out short of pure luck or watching a speedrun is practically nil. The only other boss that comes to mind that can destroy terrain is Scorpioness, and that's three zones and a completely different terrain type away. I though Twin Dragonriders was hilariously easy no matter how it's approached  Matthewmatosis is bad at video games
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Apr 16, 2017 06:48
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SKULL.GIF posted:DS2 went through a period of being underrated and I think people are overcompensating swinging it the other way. It's as flawed as the other games in the series. I'd say it's more flawed by a good margin if you consider the game as a whole, while the other games just have parts that are deeply flawed. It's not literally cancer though, in fact it's still a good game CuddlyZombie posted:and the dlcs really arent as good as everyone says. lmao
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Apr 16, 2017 06:50
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Brume tower is mostly good, aside from a couple annoying rooms and the run up to Sir Alonne being awful, but CoC respawning was absolutely not in the base game and using ascetics requires farming and involves kicking the game up into NG+ and is not really the same thing. Eleum loyce is real bad and Shulva is visually amazing but isn't very noteworthy to play through gameplaywise. The coolest thing about it is the armor ghosts, but the outside of the pyramid is just moving poison statues that are really tedious to deal with, or normal enemies but they do A Lot of damage. And Sinh stays in the air way too much, what is this, Rathalos? Honestly, within DS2, Lost Bastille is a much better zone than any DLC area aside from maybe the main tower area of Brume tower.
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Apr 16, 2017 06:54
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CoC respawning was changed in a patch. It is *absolutely* in the base game as of now. Also, Eleum Loyce and Shulva are great and I'll defend them to my last breath and I honestly don't see in what ways Lost Bastille is better than the DLC or even comparable aside from the fact that it's... large?
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Apr 16, 2017 07:03
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I was with that Dark Souls 2 video until about 10 minutes in when he made the point that fighting tall humanoids in armor w/ big weapons over and over is fine because that's a fun type of fight. Yes. Yes, it is. Occasionally. And he even says he thinks there are enough bosses that aren't like that to break up the monotony of it but he doesn't elaborate on that at all. The first seven bosses of Dark Souls 2 are that way if you play it "in order": The Last Giant, the Pursuer, the Dragonrider, the Old Dragonslayer, the Flexile Sentry, the Ruin Sentinels, and the Lost Sinner are all just like that.  edit: Oh... now he's railing against another video... cool CJacobs fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 07:10
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Obligatum VII posted:I would no joke be really interesting in seeing someone take a swing at an action game that featuring a non-humanoid protagonist. I imagine drifting would be like, an actual pivotal part of your moveset in order to achieve fast turns. Dragon drifting. Okami exists and lets you run around the world barking at people. Also Tokyo Jungle lets you kill lions as a Pomeranian.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:11
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:CoC respawning was changed in a patch. It is *absolutely* in the base game as of now. It is now, but it wasn't for like a year and a half. I was using the past tense. What do you think is so great about Eleum Loyce? I like Bastille because it has multiple avenues of entry, has plenty of secrets, and enemies that will swarm you if you can't deal with crowd control but that easily stagger if you can control them all. The location itself makes sense as a prison to hold undead ala the undead asylum, and it overall feels like a consistently solid experience. The fact that you can take a weird path to skip ruin sentinels is really neat. If I had to take points away from it, it'd be for those explody guys next to Straid.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:12
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i ike lost bastille but it definitely contributes to the "dark souls 2 is a series of levels, not one continuous world" vibe of the game
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Apr 16, 2017 07:15
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CJacobs posted:I was with that Dark Souls 2 video until about 10 minutes in when he made the point that fighting tall humanoids in armor w/ big weapons over and over is fine because that's a fun type of fight. Yes. Yes, it is. Occasionally. There is no "order" to Dark Souls 2 though. You can argue the game pushes you in one direction over the others but you can very much do the first 4 souls in a heavily varied order. I remember this argument coming up a bunch at launch so I went out of my way to count the number of humanoid knight bosses DS2 had compared to DS1. DS2 has more but this is because it overall has more bosses. Proportionally, they are basically the same. Though there's also a problem here where people have different definitions as what constitutes as this kind of fight. Like I wouldn't include Last Giant here because while he's a humanoid, the fight against him doesn't play out like a typical knight encounter. alf_pogs posted:i ike lost bastille but it definitely contributes to the "dark souls 2 is a series of levels, not one continuous world" vibe of the game I mean its an isolated island prison so its lack of connections has more of an excuse than anywhere else. It fits in the world fine. In the interest of fairness, I will say that guys talk about DS1's interconnected nature sacrificing level design isn't correct. Because even though the areas are interconnected, the connections mainly form at their entrances. Blighttown is the only full scale level you could end up going through backwards realistically. So I don't think anywhere was designed around people going through it from multiple directions. Also if DS2 wanted the world to be unrealistic in its geography, they could of made that feeling a lot more prominent. Really sell the idea that the world is a jumbled mess that isn't meshing together properly due to distortion. But I don't think they were going for that. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 07:18
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CuddlyZombie posted:I like Bastille because it has multiple avenues of entry, has plenty of secrets, and enemies that will swarm you if you can't deal with crowd control but that easily stagger if you can control them all. The location itself makes sense as a prison to hold undead ala the undead asylum, and it overall feels like a consistently solid experience. The fact that you can take a weird path to skip ruin sentinels is really neat. If I had to take points away from it, it'd be for those explody guys next to Straid. It goes without saying that a DLC can't have multiple points of entry because it's a crafted standalone experience that needs a beginning, middle and an end. And Eleum Loyce comes pretty close by giving you the opportunity to skip both the quest for the Priestess Eye (don't remember the actual item name, but whatever) and letting you decide just how many knights you want to bring in for the battle against the Burned Ivory King, which allows you to decide how difficult you want the fight to be and how much you want to commit to the DLC. Like all the other DLC, the gimmick is solid, as it alters both the level design and encounter design (I'd say it ranks in the middle, not quite as strong as Shulva's moving buildings and traps, but more interesting than the idols in Brume Tower which were a bit on the game-y side), the enemy variety is quite good, with plenty of invasions and enemies that require different approaches to beat and are placed accordingly (rampart golems usually come as one-against-one duels, the soldiers are usually grouped with other soldiers that cover their weaknesses, the hedgehog exist to put pressure on the player in an area that would otherwise be fairly simple to navigate, and the invasions are all quite good), the theming is consistent (I love that you can knock off a snowball to create a shortcut and kill enemies along the way, though I wish the shortcut was more useful*), there are plenty of hidden paths and secrets, and the bosses are pretty good. Hell, I even like the two tigers fight, though there should absolutely be a bonfire right before it. Now, don't get me wrong, is it perfect? Well, much like the base game, Ivory Tower tends to lack in clutter and moment to moment environmental storytelling, the reuse of some base enemy minibosses and bosses feels a bit incongruous with the rest of the enemy roster, and there's a general overreliance on high poise and high elemental resistances on the base enemies like in the other DLC... but then again, that was also a problem in Artorias of the Abyss, and everyone loves it. * Shortcuts in general are a weakness of the DLC. Because of its bonfire placement, they largely feel redundant.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:23
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The red phantom hedgehogs are my most hated enemy in Dark Souls 2. Holy loving poo poo did those little assholes deal out damage.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:24
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Internet Kraken posted:There is no "order" to Dark Souls 2 though. You can argue the game pushes you in one direction over the others but you can very much do the first 4 souls in a heavily varied order. I'll grant you that it opens up relatively quickly but the "intended" order is surely the Heide's path to completion first, especially because there's a fragrant branch of yore right in the Lost Sinner's boss room. It's the only path that doesn't require you to do anything extra to reach or complete it. You need to survive the drop to the Gutter, need a fragrant branch to access the Shaded Woods, and need to buy your way into Huntsman's Copse (though it's not too expensive). edit: Even in Scholar of the First Sin, where the hag woman sells a fragrant branch right from the start, I'd say it's the "default" path. When you first reach Majula it's the only way out that's not a dead end. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 07:26
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Node posted:The red phantom hedgehogs are my most hated enemy in Dark Souls 2. Holy loving poo poo did those little assholes deal out damage. wait there were red versions of those?!
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Apr 16, 2017 07:30
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Too bad the only way to sell distortion is with swamps. The Ringed City taught me that.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:31
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Also, I played the entirety of the first DLC tonight blind (on stream) and it was great! I had fun with it, though I see the complaints that it was too repetitive. The forest full of a fuckbillion of the Farron dudes was kinda crappy.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:32
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Iretep posted:wait there were red versions of those?! Pretty sure they showd up in NG+. I believe they would attack you in the room with albino demon, just in case Maldrin's trap wasn't annoying enough. CJacobs posted:I'll grant you that it opens up relatively quickly but the "intended" order is surely the Heide's path to completion first, especially because there's a fragrant branch of yore right in the Lost Sinner's boss room. It's the only path that doesn't require you to do anything extra to reach or complete it. You need to survive the drop to the Gutter, need a fragrant branch to access the Shaded Woods, and need to buy your way into Huntsman's Copse (though it's not too expensive). You're correct that Lost Sinner is definitely the intended first lord, but my point was that its not fair to judge the game solely on those bosses because you can potentially and realistically be doing it in a much different order. I doubt that people did all of those bosses before going to any other paths. Particularly because several of them become optional when you do the others. For example, if someone is fighting Pursuer and wants to see the Bastille to completion, there would be no reason for them to have fought Flexile Sentry.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:36
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Internet Kraken posted:You're correct that Lost Sinner is definitely the intended first lord, but my point was that its not fair to judge the game solely on those bosses because you can potentially and realistically be doing it in a much different order. I doubt that people did all of those bosses before going to any other paths. Particularly because several of them become optional when you do the others. For example, if someone is fighting Pursuer and wants to see the Bastille to completion, there would be no reason for them to have fought Flexile Sentry. That's fair. But I still disagree with the original point that there is enough variety. I really think there's not, regardless of its proportion to the other games. More bosses in 2 should mean proportionally less humanoids in armor, not the same amount.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:37
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CJacobs posted:Also, I played the entirety of the first DLC tonight blind (on stream) and it was great! I had fun with it, though I see the complaints that it was too repetitive. The forest full of a fuckbillion of the Farron dudes was kinda crappy. the friede fight was tense as hell, i was definitely glad once you got that out of the way. it's a cool dlc overall but it seriously kind of needed a bit more variety.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:40
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i felt like maybe i was the wrong level for good multiplayer in ds3 but i just killed pontiff and realise that the entire userbase is duking it out just outside
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Apr 16, 2017 07:40
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I just realized the reason people are discussing DS2 is Hbomberguy's video, so let me just say that his Bloodborne video's arguments made little sense to me, so while I agree that Dark Souls 2 is unfairly maligned, I'm also fully expecting his new video to be full of circular logic, strange off the wall assertions, and the baseless need to put down other games while talking up his favorite.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:48
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I have always and will always defend DS2 for many of its design choices, though not all of them, because all of the games have some extremely questionable choices at some point in the game anyway. DS2 Scholar best Souls game.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:50
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That's because most of their design choices were utterly correct. They basically only did two blatantly wrong things: Agility and Soul Memory. Of those, DS1 pulled a similar stunt of having a bad stat (Resistance), and in DS2 it doesn't even matter because Soul Vessels are a thing and you don't exactly have to be stingy with your levels. Soul Memory is pretty bad, but inconsequential for the vast majority of the playerbase.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:55
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Tallgeese posted:That's because most of their design choices were utterly correct. Agreed completely about agility and soul memory. My third primary complaint was the fact that there were consumable invasion items only. All red and blue orbs were cracked, you couldn't get a whole one. Other than that, and world inconsistency, the game is just so much more fun. I miss twinblades, as goofy as they were.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:57
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I'll grant the lack of full orbs I guess. But let's be brutally honest: that was an attempt to expand people's range of PVP areas and targets. Think about it: in DS1 all that infinite orb basically amounted to was spamming it in the same couple of areas you had the SL to invade. DS2 was an attempt to make people move the hell around. It didn't "work", mind you, but I respect the attempt.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:59
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Honestly as a player concerned with PvP I hate DS3's system more than agility. Because every build having the same rolls is pretty loving boring. I guess to me the ideal system would be no agility stat but to have equipment rate still change roll distances. Fair Bear Maiden posted:I just realized the reason people are discussing DS2 is Hbomberguy's video, so let me just say that his Bloodborne video's arguments made little sense to me, so while I agree that Dark Souls 2 is unfairly maligned, I'm also fully expecting his new video to be full of circular logic, strange off the wall assertions, and the baseless need to put down other games while talking up his favorite. Pretty much. He raises some good points but he also raises several that I found to be questionable. He also rags on DS1 a lot but I guess that's because he's intentionally trying to rile up the people that blindly champion it. Tallgeese posted:I'll grant the lack of full orbs I guess. I...really don't see how. You could get your cracked orbs and go wherever you wanted. What did make people move around was SM, because it would end up forcing you out of lower level invasion spots at some point. Unless you just revert your save of course. I think the limited invasion items was an attempt to get people to use the arenas more, as that was the best way to get them. But I hate arena PvP so being forced to do it really pissed me off. In the end I started using a cheat engine just to give my invaders 99 orbs.
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Apr 16, 2017 08:04
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I know you chug a lot faster in DS3, do you roll farther and more often too? It seems like it. The PVP is so much different compared to 2, which felt better paced.
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Apr 16, 2017 08:06
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Internet Kraken posted:I guess to me the ideal system would be no agility stat but to have equipment rate still change roll distances. I would also like a good souls-like where you can block highs and lows and it's more like a proper 3d fighting game, but w/e
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Apr 16, 2017 08:08
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Internet Kraken posted:I...really don't see how. You could get your cracked orbs and go wherever you wanted. What did make people move around was SM, because it would end up forcing you out of lower level invasion spots at some point. Unless you just revert your save of course. If you think about it, putting orbs in the arena increased the range of fighting targets and types of fighter. This combined with SM theoretically ensured you would have to change venues.
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Apr 16, 2017 08:09
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This dude argues that walking from one bonfire to another in Dark Souls 1 because you couldn't warp was tedious and boring. Is he serious? It takes like less than 5 minutes to get from the gate of Sen's Fortress down to Quelaag's Domain, probably the farthest you'll have to hoof it unless you backtrack from Anor Londo at some point. I know this because I had to do it because I forgot to ring the bell on my latest playthrough like a goddamn idiot.
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Apr 16, 2017 08:13
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