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Augus
Mar 9, 2015


Your Computer posted:

While Adaptability and Agility was without a doubt a Bad Design Decision in DS2, I still don't understand why people make such a big deal about it. You only need 20 ADP to get a good roll, and DS2 throws a shitload more souls at you than DS1/3. Depending on what starting class you have, you'll effortlessly get this much ADP before even facing the first boss of your choice :shrug: It's stupid that it's essentially a "get this or die" tax and I won't defend that, but you get so many levels in DS2 that the points in ADP are a drop in the bucket and I feel like people are reacting as if it made a meaningful impact on build variety or damage output or, y'know, anything.

yes that's all very nice after you've already beaten the game a dozen times and already know that there's a stat dedicated to making the game less poo poo that you need to level up ASAP
surprisingly enough, some people play through these games a first time.

stupid design being mitigated by knowing that it is there is such a bad excuse for anything. I can play Sonic 06 without experiencing any bugs. Not because the game is bug free, but because I know where the bugs will trigger so I don't step on those parts of the map. it's still tremendously stupid and even doing a small slice of the game with the lovely fat roll you start with is obnoxious as all hell.

Augus fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Apr 16, 2017

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Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Augus posted:

yes that's all very nice after you've already beaten the game a dozen times and already know that there's a stat dedicated to making the game less poo poo that you need to level up ASAP
surprisingly enough, some people play through these games a first time.

I... but... is no one even reading... I literally said several times... and yet...

One Hundred Monkeys posted:

Forums user "Your Computer" is not actually saying that including adaptability as a stat was a good design decision. He is saying that the negative effects of that design decision aren't quite as severe as some people argue. I hope this post will be of some assistance to you, friend.

Thank you :(

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


Your Computer posted:

I... but... is no one even reading... I literally said several times... and yet...


Thank you :(

I don't play PvP
Having every playthrough of the game start with lovely rolling is lovely.
This isn't rocket science.

New Concept Hole
Oct 10, 2012

東方動的
I didn't care for Soul Memory because I liked to co-op certain bosses, and eventually you'll just be forced out of range for whatever boss you want to fight.

Also having no way of knowing your iframes are bad is dumb.

swamp waste
Nov 4, 2009

There is some very sensual touching going on in the cutscene there. i don't actually think it means anything sexual but it's cool how it contrasts with modern ideas of what bad ass stuff should be like. It even seems authentic to some kind of chivalric masculine touching from a tyme longe gone
Are you guys even disagreeing. It's not that bad when you understand it, but it's baseline pretty bad still and unusually lovely for beginners, who need clarity and consistency in a game this hard more than anyone else does. I don't see how one of those things contradicts the other.

New Concept Hole
Oct 10, 2012

東方動的
The endless cycle of "You just don't get it" will bind us all irrevocably.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused
Let me tell you about Earthen Peak elevator

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

New Concept Hole posted:

The endless cycle of "You just don't get it" will bind us all irrevocably.

I need to say that I don't like the dlc everytime people say it's good you don't understand

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Liquid Dinosaur posted:

Hey so, I've read the various wikis, but just to eliminate any chance i gently caress it up, could you give me the rundown on how to optimally keep Greirat alive on his second run, while also keeping Patches and Siegward's quests okay?

I've cleared Road of Sacrifices and can go to either Cathedral or Farron Keep, and planning on Cathedral first. After I get tricked by patches and he becomes a merchant in Firelink, my options are

A. Buy the Onion armor back to give to Siegward, who will then be in Irithyll when I send Greirat to go there, or

B. Let Patches keep the armor, progress to Irithyll, send Greirat there, tell Patches to help Greirat, kill the Pontiff but DO NOT PROCEED to Irithyll Dungeon, finally buy the armor and help Siegward out of the well?

That sounds right to me when I go over it in my head. I sort of like to do all non mutually exclusive quest things I can in my first run through a Souls game, and I'm already "spoiled" about everything, since on all subsequent runs I'm going to be blowing past stuff and likely forgetting to even talk to NPCs I have no actual use for, like the various magic vendors.

1. Send Greirat to pillage the first time asap
2. Fall for Patches' trap in the cathedral
3. Work your way back to Patches via the roof beams and buy Sieg's armor off him
4. Give Sieg his armor
5. Send Greirat to pillage a second time

Greirat will survive his trip (however he will still die if you send him to pillage a third time) and Sieg will show up in Irithyll Dungeon. Frankly I wouldn't mess with the Patches route, it's just more finicky.

New Concept Hole
Oct 10, 2012

東方動的

Internet Kraken posted:

Let me tell you about Earthen Peak elevator

Everything's an Earthen Peak elevator to you though.

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

I need to say that I don't like the dlc everytime people say it's good you don't understand

Stick to implying that people that don't like the DLC are bad.

TexMexFoodbaby
Sep 6, 2011

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

swamp waste posted:

Are you guys even disagreeing. It's not that bad when you understand it, but it's baseline pretty bad still and unusually lovely for beginners, who need clarity and consistency in a game this hard more than anyone else does. I don't see how one of those things contradicts the other.

Nah not really. I just get a kick out of the fact that nobody clearly thought about why rolling should be like that. It was like we have this stat in dks1 nobody used. Hmm well tie rolling invincibility frames into it. Then they'll boost that stat that does nothing because we ruined another thing.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

So I want to beeline irithyll dungeon asap for karla so I can get the dark miracles, and currently Sieg is stuck down a well with patches in firelink. How do I make sure that greirat survives while I still succeed in freeing Karla?

1. keep sieg in the well, send greirat pillaging, inform patches. ? Go kill a boss (demon ruins maybe?) and greirat / patches survive?
2. keep sieg in the well, keep greirat in firelink, go through irithyll dungeon & profaned capital until I can free Karla, then give sieg his gear and send greirat pillaging, meet sieg in irithyll for some beer, go kill a boss elsewhere?
3. ???

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused
IMO just let Sieg out of the well and kill Pontiff. Not like Pontiff is much further into the game than Irthyll Dungeon.

Alternatively buy the dark miracles from the boring miracle lady cause she doesn't deserve a good ending anyways.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Paging AttackBacon!

What's a good pair of legs that looks good with the Slave Knight Chest? I like the red cloth draped around the top of the Slave Knight Set, it looks really cool with the Firelink Helm. I'm using Lorian's Greaves because it has cool cloth draped around the back, but it's a dark blue color and doesn't mesh well with the red on Slave Knight. The only other thing I've found that has a similar color is the Desert Pyromancer Dress and it's a tad...revealing.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused

Yorkshire Pudding posted:

Paging AttackBacon!

What's a good pair of legs that looks good with the Slave Knight Chest? I like the red cloth draped around the top of the Slave Knight Set, it looks really cool with the Firelink Helm. I'm using Lorian's Greaves because it has cool cloth draped around the back, but it's a dark blue color and doesn't mesh well with the red on Slave Knight. The only other thing I've found that has a similar color is the Desert Pyromancer Dress and it's a tad...revealing.

Alva's leggings and the undead legion leggings match pretty well with it. The pyromancer boots can also work if you want something less bulky.

There's nothing that perfectly matches the red of the slave knight set though. DS3 armour selection tends to be lacking in colour variety.

Rough Lobster
May 27, 2009

Don't be such a squid, bro
Edit: Got it thanks

Gt Angular Squid

Rough Lobster fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Apr 17, 2017

Kite Pride Worldwide
Apr 20, 2009



Yorkshire Pudding posted:

Paging AttackBacon!

What's a good pair of legs that looks good with the Slave Knight Chest? I like the red cloth draped around the top of the Slave Knight Set, it looks really cool with the Firelink Helm. I'm using Lorian's Greaves because it has cool cloth draped around the back, but it's a dark blue color and doesn't mesh well with the red on Slave Knight. The only other thing I've found that has a similar color is the Desert Pyromancer Dress and it's a tad...revealing.

Lothric Knight Leggings look good with nearly everything

mdct
Sep 2, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.
I like how the Millwood Knight leggings go with the Slave Knight Chest. Desert Sorceress Hood, Slave Knight Armor, Millwood Leggings, and basically any set of gauntlets.

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

Wolnir's skeletons don't have a hitbox this playthrough. Awesome, good boss from

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

Wolnir's skeletons don't have a hitbox this playthrough. Awesome, good boss from

Wolnir has skeletons?

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

This being my forth playthrough I've finally seen him pull out the sword. I also finally noticed the free blessed shield in settlement.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Nuebot posted:

Wolnir has skeletons?

If hes not busy releasing his darkness bong hits all over them, yes

Rough Lobster
May 27, 2009

Don't be such a squid, bro
He can raise up some skellies, and depending on how many bracelets he has they get tougher. All three is standard skeletons. One left and you get bonewheels! He usually ends up killing them himself with his dark miasma.

pmchem
Jan 22, 2010


What are the red-infused hand weapons I see people using in pvp? some kind of special caestus? what is this pvp meta?

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

This being my forth playthrough I've finally seen him pull out the sword. I also finally noticed the free blessed shield in settlement.

I always wondered why you got a sword from his soul.

Rough Lobster posted:

He can raise up some skellies, and depending on how many bracelets he has they get tougher. All three is standard skeletons. One left and you get bonewheels! He usually ends up killing them himself with his dark miasma.
I've literally never seen him raise skeletons.

pmchem posted:

What are the red-infused hand weapons I see people using in pvp? some kind of special caestus? what is this pvp meta?

Dark Fist? It's been a weapon since the first game.

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

You can interupt his long as summoning animation. But he does like to do it.

Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER
:dings:
Taco Defender
Maybe its just me, but the defense increase you get when you are summoned as a spear of the church, and the host has phantoms, just isn't enough. Is the ritual spear even worth using?

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Node posted:

Maybe its just me, but the defense increase you get when you are summoned as a spear of the church, and the host has phantoms, just isn't enough. Is the ritual spear even worth using?

They nerfed it recently. The best use for the ritual spear I think is when you're first summoned. People almost always go for a backstab asap, if you're quick you can punish pretty much the whole group and get off a quick hit or two while they're confused.

Mazed
Oct 23, 2010

:blizz:


Alright, so.

I dusted off DS3 because I never played any of the DLC, now I'm doing that on a new game. I wandered into Ariandel after clearing the Cathedral and Farron Keep, and I began immediately to suspect that this area was designed for endgame-geared characters when I wound up running away from giant sacks of HP left and right. But nonetheless I kept going.

So now I'm fighting a not-angry Ninja Nun and her very angry large Scottish Mummy dad, and this boss fight is incredibly cool, but they can two-shot me. Should I just gently caress off for a while, or have people pulled this off without a plus ten weapon?

By the way, whoever at Fromsoft thinks having this many enemies with grab attacks is okay needs a smack upside the head. Also whoever decided it was okay to have generic spear-and-shield hollows be mega-aggressive marathon sprinters because gently caress that.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Mazed posted:

Alright, so.

I dusted off DS3 because I never played any of the DLC, now I'm doing that on a new game. I wandered into Ariandel after clearing the Cathedral and Farron Keep, and I began immediately to suspect that this area was designed for endgame-geared characters when I wound up running away from giant sacks of HP left and right. But nonetheless I kept going.

So now I'm fighting a not-angry Ninja Nun and her very angry large Scottish Mummy dad or something, and this boss fight is incredibly cool, but they can two-shot me. Should I just gently caress off for a while, or have people pulled this off without a plus ten weapon?

By the way, whoever at Fromsoft thinks having this many enemies with grab attacks is okay needs a smack upside the head. Also whoever decided it was okay to have generic spear-and-shield hollows be mega-aggressive marathon sprinters because gently caress that.

It's possible, it's not easy but it's possible. I'd say for a weaker character the hardest phase would be the second one where Ariandel's fire makes it real hard to keep track of what Friede is up to. Since they share a health bar, though, you can just smack his butt and run away. If you hit hard enough you can stunlock her as well.

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007

Arggh, I started a new faith dude, it is painful compared to my previous strength guy. Hitting things with a heavy-infused greatsword (the guts one) easily propelled me through the game. That character is now swinging around ledo's and loving it.

I just got taken down by the pontiff. I am using the new improved saint bident right now, and while the length is good it still feels weak. Could be because I am used to swinging around huge weapons though. I have the lightning spear miracle, but it hits like a wet noodle right now with 28 faith. I did finish the questline to get the dragonslayer axe, which I've heard is pretty killer raw with lightning blade, not that I have that miracle yet. I was kind of hoping to keep my physical stats at base for knight and just use the sunlight straight sword, but if the dragonslayer axe is good enough I might bump up to that.

How bad was the recent raw lothric knight greatsword nerf? I noticed the last patch notes had

quote:

Reduced damage of “Dark”, “Fire” and “Raw” infusions for “Lothric Knight Greatsword”
Reduced damage of “Dark” and “Fire” infusions for “Murky Hand Scythe” and “Dragonslayer’s Axe”
I guess lightning is still an option for it.

mdct
Sep 2, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.
Friede is the hardest boss fight in the game, possibly the series, and not only is Ariandel intended for at least level 80+ characters, Friede herself is distinctly an extremely endgame boss fight. You should probably gently caress off and come back beefy.

Mazed
Oct 23, 2010

:blizz:


I've enjoyed the Friede fight, even if it's kicking my rear end. The first phase has that distinctive feeling of being seriously harsh until you clear it, not so bad afterwards given that she's so stunlockable (though running down your stamina this way is a trap) but after that it just gets a giant shot in the arm, and I'm aware that's not even the last phase to it.

Really mixed bag though, Ariandel. Parts of it are almost Izalith-tier in tedious enemy placement, but the better parts are really good, and they're not wasting an opportunity putting a new spin on the story.

And the painter is the single most adorable person in any Souls game.


Question on weapons, having missed a number of patches: Are the Brigand Twindaggers any better now?

Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER
:dings:
Taco Defender
People are seriously disconnecting themselves whenever they see a player invade the Halflight fight. They'd rather bear the shame of pulling the plug than possibly losing to another human being. Its happened to me four times now.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



As in you're being summoned and they D/C out of the fight? I died twice to that because of the horribly laggy DS3 connection issues because the Ringed Knight Paired Greatswords users it inevitably summons just stunlock me from half a screen away. It's probably easier, and less annoying, to just go offline and fight whatever the NPC summon is.

basalt
Jan 11, 2015

They probably want to fight the NPC as it's an encounter that's both more interesting and challenging than anything the vast majority of players can provide. I'm not sure why they wouldn't just play in offline mode, though.

Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER
:dings:
Taco Defender

basalt posted:

They probably want to fight the NPC as it's an encounter that's both more interesting and challenging than anything the vast majority of players can provide. I'm not sure why they wouldn't just play in offline mode, though.

One guy did it with three phantoms. For a few seconds, the defense increase was significant. They chip off 100 or less health. But you get swarmed and it really doesn't matter how much absorption you have. Still, the guy disconnected anyway which I thought was funny. I should get a covenant item for that. Farming them from ringed knights is a pain in the rear end.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005


skasion posted:

If hes not busy releasing his darkness bong hits all over them, yes

people can say what they will about Wolner but he is pretty metal.

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh
I have zero issues with wolnir and having the boss of an area with skeletons just be one huge fuckin skeleton is *gough stone voice* VERY GOOD

Mazed posted:

I've enjoyed the Friede fight, even if it's kicking my rear end. The first phase has that distinctive feeling of being seriously harsh until you clear it, not so bad afterwards given that she's so stunlockable (though running down your stamina this way is a trap) but after that it just gets a giant shot in the arm, and I'm aware that's not even the last phase to it.
If you get something with decent ranged damage second phase is easy peasy because you can just kite and shoot big boy while neither of them really do any moves that hit you if you run around

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Fair Bear Maiden
Jun 17, 2013

CJacobs posted:

Did the Hbomberguy dude not mention covenants at all in his video because I would like to see him defend 500 required kills to reach +3 in several of the pvp ones.

In the context of the series, Dark Souls 2 covenants are good. This does not invalidate your complaint, but it just further highlights how bad the mechanic has always been.

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