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Ceciltron posted:I am getting married in July. I got a dispensation and we are getting married civilly, until we can be married in a Church proper. She is the best person I have ever known, and I know God loves her, even if she knows it not. I don't have any power over my fate, nor hers, but I know that the best I can do to make myself aright with the Lord is to do my best, and it is exactly that I shall do. Robots getting married, awww
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Apr 17, 2017 10:44
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 Santa Maria dell'Orto in Rome during Holy Thursday. Imagine being the sacristan and having to light them all 
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Apr 17, 2017 13:36
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System Metternich posted:
...Holy Thursday? Look, I get Good Friday, Palm Sunday, and Ash Wednesday, and I'm sure you guys have a fancy name for the Saturday before Easter, too. But Holy Thursday?
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Apr 17, 2017 13:51
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Cythereal posted:...Holy Thursday? Look, I get Good Friday, Palm Sunday, and Ash Wednesday, and I'm sure you guys have a fancy name for the Saturday before Easter, too. But Holy Thursday? Last Supper, dude
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Apr 17, 2017 14:01
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StashAugustine posted:Last Supper, dude That was on a Thursday, much less deserves its own special name? Protestants fold the celebration of the Last Supper into communion. Well, whatever floats y'alls' boat.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:03
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yes, the last supper was the day before Jesus died. it's in the bible and everything!
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Apr 17, 2017 14:10
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Oh. It never occurred to me that people would celebrate the Last Supper with its own holy day in addition to communion.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:12
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Cythereal posted:That was on a Thursday, much less deserves its own special name? Protestants fold the celebration of the Last Supper into communion. *Baptists, I'm pretty sure Lutherans and Anglicans qualify as Protestant too. Also we do too, but the day of the Last Supper (which is biblically stated to have been the day before crucifixion, after all) definitely deserves a feast day of its own. It's apparently also called “Maundy Thursday“ in English  At least in Catholicism the priest adds a “this is today“ into the Words of Institution on Holy Thursday, which I always found to be pretty neat
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Apr 17, 2017 14:13
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Cythereal posted:...Holy Thursday? Look, I get Good Friday, Palm Sunday, and Ash Wednesday, and I'm sure you guys have a fancy name for the Saturday before Easter, too. But Holy Thursday? Maundy Thursday is a very common day of celebration even in Protestant churches. The word "maundy" derives from "mandatum" or the new commandment that Jesus gave his disciples at the Last Supper - that they love one another as he had loved them. Our church has even had a foot-washing ceremony one year as part of its Maundy Thursday service. That was really awkward for a bunch of uptight white people to wash each others' feet. They didn't do it again.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:42
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Deteriorata posted:Maundy Thursday is a very common day of celebration even in Protestant churches. The word "maundy" derives from "mandatum" or the new commandment that Jesus gave his disciples at the Last Supper - that they love one another as he had loved them. ...Alrighty then. I'll chalk this one up to another tradition the Southern Baptist church I grew up in didn't do and none of the other churches of various denominations I've visited around this time of year have done, either.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:44
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Deteriorata posted:Maundy Thursday is a very common day of celebration even in Protestant churches. The word "maundy" derives from "mandatum" or the new commandment that Jesus gave his disciples at the Last Supper - that they love one another as he had loved them. I've heard the term Maundy Thursday before, but I'm not sure we ever celebrated it formally. We did do foot-washing like twice a year, though I was never clear about whether that was a Mennonite thing or a just-my-church thing.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:47
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Nah, Catholics do it too. There was a bit of an uproar when Francis in his first year as pope washed the feet of a female Muslim prison inmate, which apparently hit all the right/wrong buttons in trad circles
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Apr 17, 2017 14:57
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Cythereal posted:...Alrighty then. I'll chalk this one up to another tradition the Southern Baptist church I grew up in didn't do and none of the other churches of various denominations I've visited around this time of year have done, either. As with everything, it probably depends on which branch of Protestantism your denomination descended from. Methodists are from the Anglicans, Baptists are from the Dissenters/Puritans.
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Apr 17, 2017 15:00
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That Thursday (which name in Finnish somehow derives from a malicious folk lore spirit, no idea why) is actually 3rd most popular church-going day in Finland. The first two on the list are the the Christmas Eve and the 1st Advent.
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Apr 17, 2017 15:05
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Alleluia, the Lord is Risen! I can confirm that my (very high) Anglican college Chapel does foot-washing on Maundy Thursday. We do the full Triduum including reserved sacrament and an all-night vigil over it between Maundy Thursday and the morning Eucharist on Good Friday. We also sing the Exultate during the Great Vigil which is one of the high points of the Liturgical year for me. I have actually come back to this Chapel (and regular church attendance in general) after having been away for study and work for many years. This has been the first Easter since 2004 where I have been fully involved in the preparations again and it has been amazing! I actually had the honour of serving as the Sub-deacon for the first time in 13 years at the lower Eucharist on Sunday morning after the fellow who was supposed to do became ill. I was going to be Epistle Acolyte and it was all so last-minute that the Celebrant just handed me the Tunicle and had me put it on over my Surplice. I was amazed how it all just came back to me when the Liturgy started; it gets into your blood after a while and you never forget it I guess. I normally just lurk but this thread has been part of what encouraged me to return to the Chapel when I came home. Thank you and Bless you all!
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Apr 17, 2017 15:09
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Deteriorata posted:As with everything, it probably depends on which branch of Protestantism your denomination descended from. Methodists are from the Anglicans, Baptists are from the Dissenters/Puritans. High church Presbyterians (they exist, mostly in the northeast) do Holy Week as well. It seems to be mostly the Baptists that have erased everything but Easter. The local non-denominational megachurch was bragging about their attendance numbers for their Easter services. 9,618. We had about 400 people at Easter Vigil but our plus one was the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Checkmate, Protestantailures.
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Apr 17, 2017 15:34
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Valiantman posted:That Thursday (which name in Finnish somehow derives from a malicious folk lore spirit, no idea why) is actually 3rd most popular church-going day in Finland. The first two on the list are the the Christmas Eve and the 1st Advent. It's funny how some of the feast day names came to be in German: Maundy/Holy Thursday: Gründonnerstag (lit. "green Thursday"), of which nobody knows where it comes from - because of the Latin term "dies viridium", because some dioceses used to have green as the liturgical colour of the day before the standardisation of Trent, because of the old tradition of eating lots of green vegetables during the day or because it comes from Old High German grīnan, "cry, lament"? Good Friday: Karfreitag, from Old High German kara, "sorrow, grief" Pentecost: Pfingsten, which comes directly from the Greek pentekoste but underwent some interesting changes on its way here Corpus Christi: Fronleichnam, from Old High German vrôn, "belonging/applying to the lord or ruler" and Leichnam, "body, corpse" The most diverse and interesting etymology is definitely the one of Easter, though. Most (European) languages derive it from Hebrew Pessach which in English is traditionally translated as "Passover", but might instead actually have meant "he hovered over, guarding". "Easter" instead is afaik only used in English and German (as "Ostern"), and prooobably comes from Proto-Germanic Austrō, "twilight of dawn" - other possibly etymologies include an old Anglo-Saxon goddess of light "Ēostra" that may or may not have been made up by the Venerable Bede, the word deriving from "East" (where Jerusalem is and where the sun rises) or from northern proto-Germanic ausa, "to pour water" because of the Easter Night being a traditional baptism date. Most Slavic languages call the feast "Great Night", while Bulgarian, Ukrainian and the (Baltic) Lithuanian and Latvian call it "Great Day" instead. In Georgian and Serbo-Croatian it's simply "resurrection", whereas Hungarian and Estonian call it "eating meat"
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Apr 17, 2017 15:53
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cue internet atheists talking about ishtar
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Apr 17, 2017 16:38
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Is that not a possible part of the etymology? Guessing possible roots of words is fun, my favorite probably being the one that leads King Arthur to be based in Colchester. The derivation from Pessach is pretty obvious and it is a bit odd that a bunch of languages just don't do that. I figured some of it might have come from Roman influence. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Apr 17, 2017 |
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Apr 17, 2017 16:46
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OwlFancier posted:Is that not a possible part of the etymology? Nope. Unless you want to believe there was a sudden renaissance of interest in a minor Babylonian goddess that was forgotten fifteen hundred years ago while everyone else in the Christian world was calling it Pascha.
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Apr 17, 2017 17:13
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Bel_Canto posted:cue internet atheists talking about ishtar I'm following a Facebook group called "Ancientology" (as if that name wasn't an alarm sign all by itself...) because sometimes they post neat 360° pictures of old temples and stuff, but most of the members are also the type of esoteric weirdos who'll fervently believe in ancient pagan practices being passed on in secret under the watchful eye of a cruel inquisition, or in ancient Mayan stone tablets prophesying the re-arrival of aliens or whatever. So it's not just internet atheists, but clueless self-appointed "pagans" or "mystics" (or whatever they call themselves) too! A recent post claimed that "Ishtar" and "Easter" were pronounced exactly the same, lol I also remember being really concerned many years ago when I read somewhere about all the obvious parallels between the life of Christ and Mithras, only to find out afterwards that virtually all of it was made up wholesale and that literally the same claims circulate about other ancient deities like Horus, Attis, Dionysus (who apparently also is exactly like Moses) and even Krishna
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Apr 17, 2017 17:23
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did they ever post this hilarious thing WORDS IN ENGLISH KINDA SOUND LIKE OTHER WORDS IN ENGLISH IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW
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Apr 17, 2017 17:37
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Why you calling me Jesus? I look Puerto Rican to you?
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Apr 17, 2017 17:49
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I've sassed two people this weekend for posting that idol damned Ishtar meme. gently caress me I hate it so much. Even if it were true, the transmission of celebrations and their changes across time does not mean "Easter = Ishtar." We totally jacked eggs and bunnies for Easter from pagans, but that doesn't mean our Christian feast is somehow really, secretly something else. "Easter" is, I've heard, from a German deity Eostre? Is this true? This is the meme that I saw shared this weekend and EVERY EASTER: 
WerrWaaa fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Apr 17, 2017 |
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Apr 17, 2017 17:58
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WerrWaaa posted:I've sassed two people this weekend for posting that idol damned Ishtar meme. gently caress me I hate it so much. Even if it were true, the transmission of celebrations and their changes across time does not mean "Easter = Ishtar." We totally jacked eggs and bunnies for Easter from pagans, but that doesn't mean our Christian feast is somehow really, secretly something else. "Easter" is, I've heard, from a German deity Eostre? Is this true? The evidence for this is pretty sparse, the whole thing may have been invented by 19th century romantics and theosophists. Or at least that's what the non-right-wing pagan groups I used to frequent say. They also say you're free to include Eostre in your religiosity anyway if you want to. E: I imagine that interpretation is going to become more popular with the tv version of American gods by Neil Gaiman, because Eostre is a character in there. That's a really good book btw pidan fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Apr 17, 2017 |
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Apr 17, 2017 18:08
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pidan posted:hat's a really good book btw Seconded. Everyone read it.
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Apr 17, 2017 18:19
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pidan posted:The evidence for this is pretty sparse, the whole thing may have been invented by 19th century romantics and theosophists. Or at least that's what the non-right-wing pagan groups I used to frequent say. They also say you're free to include Eostre in your religiosity anyway if you want to. Nah the citation is originally from Bede. It gained credibility when Jakob Grimm included it in his Deutsche Mythologie, which remains a masterpiece, but clearly it still has flaws. The Ishtar thing is complete nonsense, which is why I was totally unsurprised when it got shared by the Dawkins Foundation's Facebook page a couple years ago.
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Apr 17, 2017 18:33
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Saving Krishna Christ for nebulous future use. Anyone got that link on why Ishtar Easter is bullwhit? I once met a guy at a hospital who became atheist because of Zeitgeist. Poor fucker.
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Apr 17, 2017 19:46
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JcDent posted:Saving Krishna Christ for nebulous future use. Anyone got that link on why Ishtar Easter is bullwhit? Bel_Canto posted:cue internet atheists talking about ishtar Yeah, I've been telling a bunch of acquintances online why it's dumb. If you're going to go that way, might as well blame Ostara(Eostre), though that doesn't explain why many European languages sound more like Pesach..
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Apr 17, 2017 19:51
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I was going to protest the Lithuanian entymology for Easter, but then my rudimentary Slav knowledge kicked in. At least it doesn't come from Russian-Russian...
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Apr 17, 2017 19:54
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what else can your rudimentary slav knowledge infusion tell us
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Apr 17, 2017 19:54
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The Phlegmatist posted:Nope. So is Easter (the word) a modern thing? It doesn't track back very far even among anglophones? I assumed it was one of the various weird Roman cults that got imported to Britain (given Rome's propensity for nicking gods left and right) and so Britain ended up with a weird word for it. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Apr 17, 2017 |
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Apr 17, 2017 20:00
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Cythereal posted:Oh. It never occurred to me that people would celebrate the Last Supper with its own holy day in addition to communion.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:24
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System Metternich posted:Nah, Catholics do it too. There was a bit of an uproar when Francis in his first year as pope washed the feet of a female Muslim prison inmate, which apparently hit all the right/wrong buttons in trad circles
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Apr 17, 2017 20:25
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Bel_Canto posted:Nah the citation is originally from Bede. OwlFancier posted:So is Easter (the word) a modern thing? It doesn't track back very far even among anglophones? HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Apr 17, 2017 |
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Apr 17, 2017 20:29
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HEY GAIL posted:which is why a bunch of Orthodox i know refuse to call it anything but Pascha, since "easter is pagan." I countered them by proving that the first attested English use of the word was just barely pre-Schism. If our Orthodox brothers and sisters in England called it Easter in English, so can we when we speak English. "Eosturmonath has a name which is now translated "Paschal month", and which was once called after a goddess of theirs named Eostre, in whose honour feasts were celebrated in that month. Now they designate that Paschal season by her name, calling the joys of the new rite by the time-honoured name of the old observance." http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/ has a bunch of entries about Eostre from a pagan perspective; http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/502368.html and http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/591576.html are relevant to the actual discussion of the name of the feast, if you don't want to poke around someone's blog finding the best entries. Cythereal posted:...Holy Thursday? Look, I get Good Friday, Palm Sunday, and Ash Wednesday, and I'm sure you guys have a fancy name for the Saturday before Easter, too. But Holy Thursday? The Saturday before Easter, and the Wednesday, Tuesday, and Monday before Easter, are Holy [day-of-the-week]. Holy Wednesday is sometimes called Spy Wednesday. We also have Fat Tuesday or Shrove Tuesday (day before Ash Wednesday); Easter Monday through Easter Saturday (the days after Easter); four times a year there's "Ember days" - Ember Wednesday, Ember Friday, and Ember Saturday - though that comes from a mistranslation, not from anything to do with embers; and every Sunday has an identifying name, even if it's just "Nth Sunday after Epiphany" (in the older form of the Latin-rite Mass) or "Nth Sunday in Ordinary Time" (in the newer form). We just like naming things, okay? We don't have 47th Catholic Parish of Townname, we have St. Aetheldreda's and St. Drausnius's and the like.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:27
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There's a prison near Munich called “Stadelheim“ and it used to be that inmates would try to soften the blow of telling their families and friends where they were by telling them that they were living in “St. Adelheim“ instead
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Apr 17, 2017 21:47
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StashAugustine posted:Why you calling me Jesus? I look Puerto Rican to you? How do Catholics do their thing?
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Apr 17, 2017 22:51
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Cythereal posted:y'alls' 
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Apr 18, 2017 00:07
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y'all is a perfectly useful neologism and that's the right place for an apostrophe to indicate the plural possessive, i see no problem here
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