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ChaosArgate posted:Yeah the actions of the Phantom Thieves isn't super radical for a Western mindset, but respect for superiors in Asian cultures are super ingrained in those societies and trying to do something against abuse from people higher up in the system is generally frowned upon. unless its sports. then its worse in america.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:56
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Josuke Higashikata posted:go download the font earwig factory because it's real similar to the font used in game for name tags and stuff Even better. Time for some avatar improvement
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Apr 17, 2017 20:55
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Real late doing Ann's social link but Going to the temple and running in to Doc, my romance, was pretty friggin good. Her responses to us hanging out were pretty good. "I'll make sure to get the truth from you later." While Ann looked confused was priceless. I don't dislike Ann but drat she's dense.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:56
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darealkooky posted:It's nice to have homosexual characters that represent me. Not everyone is a bioware character irl.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:56
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anime was right posted:unless its sports. then its worse in america. I suspect that sports in Japan is just as corrupt as anything else. Although US sports is a special kind of beast, yes. Edit: did an arcade Zelda game slip past me or something what is going on
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Apr 17, 2017 20:56
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The thing about erica is that the guys make some jokes at her expense but they never once call her a male outside of explaining her history in one scene or try to shame her for her choices. Their interactions with trying to talk toby out of ending up with her feel more like they just don't want their dumbass friend getting into a relationship that would fail for more personality reasons (I guess they do make a joke that their sex "felt weird" but in the best ending they end up together and seem happy so w/e) Again the main thing that impressed me about this is that the character didn't feel the need to go THIS IS WHO I AM, HEAR ME ROAR and instead they just acted like a real person with their sexuality being on the side. Like with arcade (who I'll agree is kinda whatever) this feels way more legit because frankly I don't particularly give a gently caress who characters in video games are loving.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:57
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Harrow posted:meanwhile, apparently in Japan the whole phantom thief aesthetic is really played out and got some flak when the game was first revealed (at least according to something on read on The Internet, which must be true) Oh? That's the first I've heard of this, that's kinda interesting, but yeah, cultural viewpoints are a hell of a thing and looking at how other cultures interpret some things can say a whole lot more than what those things themselves can say. Basically this: Pollyanna posted:The most interesting thing about this game is how the West sees the situation vs Japan, and how this says way more about Japan IRL than the actual game characters.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:57
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Endorph posted:her gender being listed as 'male' in the artbook was extremely *thinking emoji* I generally thought that Catherine handled Erica quite well, but that's very disappointing.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:58
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Pollyanna posted:I suspect that sports in Japan is just as corrupt as anything else. Although US sports is a special kind of beast, yes. japanese sports: symbolic sacrifices of colonel sanders score 1, japan.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:58
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 o fuk
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Apr 17, 2017 20:59
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Endorph posted:real talk arcade is like, fine, but everyone acting like he's the end-all be-all of gay representation of games and every single gay character ever should be written like that, is bad. ya. i want lots of cool queer chars that are all really different and unique ftw
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Apr 17, 2017 20:59
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Yusuke knows what's up.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:59
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darealkooky posted:The thing about erica is that the guys make some jokes at her expense but they never once call her a male outside of explaining her history in one scene or try to shame her for her choices. Their interactions with trying to talk toby out of ending up with her feel more like they just don't want their dumbass friend getting into a relationship that would fail for more personality reasons (I guess they do make a joke that their sex "felt weird" but in the best ending they end up together and seem happy so w/e) Catherine was weird and cool?
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Apr 17, 2017 21:00
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good
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Apr 17, 2017 21:01
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darealkooky posted:Again the main thing that impressed me about this is that the character didn't feel the need to go THIS IS WHO I AM, HEAR ME ROAR and instead they just acted like a real person with their sexuality being on the side. Like with arcade (who I'll agree is kinda whatever) this feels way more legit because frankly I don't particularly give a gently caress who characters in video games are loving.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:00
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As I recall, Erica's friends that knew her since high school weren't grossed out by it at all. They were cool with joking around about it, but it didn't feel disrespectful to me. On the other hand, they did treat it as something of a prank to play on the new guy.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:01
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Futaba teaching Yusuke about sentai and action figures was extremely good
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Apr 17, 2017 21:01
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My view is that having stupid gag characters is fine as long as the story also contain major characters who are more then just a stereotype.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:01
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darealkooky posted:Except that the last game put out by these same people had some of the most progressive LGBT characters this side of arcade gannon. Say what you will about japanese mainstream culture but if there's one thing they have right it's that there's media for all tastes and people. It may lack tokenized gay characters shoehorned into a game that can't go two conversations without talking about how they are not only gay but gay for you but you can easily find media with characters that represent you if you just dig a little deeper. "They made a good thing" doesn't excuse the bad thing and it's a weird argument to say so. I don't want explicitly in your face characters going "LOOK AT ME I'M GAY" but I'd like the gay characters to not be godawful pedophile jokes. That's really not much to ask.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:01
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Moltrey posted:I need to replay Catherine, the last time I touched it was like the week it came out, but that reveal really just turned me off the cast who I thought were surprisingly okay for a group of dudes in their late 20s - early 30's. Catherine is extremely cool and good but if you're not a puzzle person, just play it on the super easy mode
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Apr 17, 2017 21:01
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Moltrey posted:I need to replay Catherine, the last time I touched it was like the week it came out, but that reveal really just turned me off the cast who I thought were surprisingly okay for a group of dudes in their late 20s - early 30's. Close friends can sometimes dunk on eachother, even on touchy subjects sometimes. Like Vincent makes one mean comment regarding womens sports to her or something and she responds by owning him back, which seemed pretty natural for close friends who have known eachother forever. Obviously that's not something you could joke about with everyone but it felt pretty realistic, to me at least.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:02
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Close friends can sometimes dunk on eachother, even on touchy subjects sometimes. Like Vincent makes one mean comment regarding womens sports to her or something and she responds by owning him back, which seemed pretty natural for close friends who have known eachother forever. Obviously that's not something you could joke about with everyone but it felt pretty realistic, to me at least.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:02
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Endorph posted:yeah, i think them loving with each other about it was fine, but a couple of scenes did kinda go to a weird place with it. It was far from perfect, but I guess I'm, personally willing to give it a pass since it didn't feel like the gags came from a place of malice. But I think it's fine if people got uncomfortable with it obviously.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:04
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YoshiOfYellow posted:"They made a good thing" doesn't excuse the bad thing and it's a weird argument to say so. I don't want explicitly in your face characters going "LOOK AT ME I'M GAY" but I'd like the gay characters to not be godawful pedophile jokes. That's really not much to ask. personally I'd like gay characters that can just be characters of any kind the author wants but what do I know, maybe playing ff7 and seeing the honeybee inn during my formative years has permanently ruined my brain to gags like this e: more specifically my point wasn't that atlus has balanced their homo karmic scale by making catherine, but rather that catherine shows that they can make characters that aren't weird gags so the guys post I was replying to that there needs to be any representation that isn't a weird gag isn't really a fair point because that totally exists, and asking it to be forced into everything when they weren't really thinking about it at the time is uncalled for. darealkooky fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Apr 17, 2017 |
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Apr 17, 2017 21:04
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On the topic of Persona's attempts at progressiveness, I was pleasantly surprised that (Temperance rank 8 spoilers) the game didn't seem to pass any judgment on Kawakami for her past as a sex worker. The parents blackmailing her are clearly portrayed as huge assholes for bringing it up, but the game doesn't act like Kawakami did anything wrong, and Joker's immediate instinct is to go "gently caress these assholes for hurting my teacher friend." Maybe that gets walked back in rank 9 or 10, I dunno yet.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:06
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cloud shoulda stayed a girl e: kawakami was not ever a sex worker unless i completely missed something Ibram Gaunt posted:Close friends can sometimes dunk on eachother, even on touchy subjects sometimes. Like Vincent makes one mean comment regarding womens sports to her or something and she responds by owning him back, which seemed pretty natural for close friends who have known eachother forever. Obviously that's not something you could joke about with everyone but it felt pretty realistic, to me at least.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:06
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Apr 17, 2017 21:07
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Harrow posted:On the topic of Persona's attempts at progressiveness, I was pleasantly surprised that (Temperance rank 8 spoilers) the game didn't seem to pass any judgment on Kawakami for her past as a sex worker. The parents blackmailing her are clearly portrayed as huge assholes for bringing it up, but the game doesn't act like Kawakami did anything wrong, and Joker's immediate instinct is to go "gently caress these assholes for hurting my teacher friend." Maybe that gets walked back in rank 9 or 10, I dunno yet. Nah, Kawakami stays completely sympathetic through and through. It's a really good character arc and it really highlights Joker's strong moral compass and refusal to let injustice stand.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:07
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darealkooky posted:that totally exists, and asking it to be forced into everything when they weren't really thinking about it at the time is uncalled for.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:09
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Endorph posted:that totally exists in a totally separate game why should every game be the same and have to meet the same checklist of things it has to include?
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Apr 17, 2017 21:09
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Moltrey posted:cloud shoulda stayed a girl It's been forever since I played so I could be wrong, but I thought they didn't want him getting with Erica, but didn't want to out her which is why they were all basically sucking air through their teeth everytime Toby made some weird rear end comment about wanting to bang her. My interpretation was just that they all kinda just hoped their relationship would fizzle out without it fracturing their friend group. But maybe I just basically retroactively justified it in my head over the years. 
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Apr 17, 2017 21:10
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Only one thing really startled me in this game and that was Kawakami's "cutsie" face she made every once in a while when hamming up the Master schtick.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:11
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darealkooky posted:why should every game be the same and have to meet the same checklist of things it has to include?
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Apr 17, 2017 21:11
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ChaosArgate posted:Nah, Kawakami stays completely sympathetic through and through. It's a really good character arc and it really highlights Joker's strong moral compass and refusal to let injustice stand. Yeah, hers is my favorite link so far. Its tonal shift from awkward comedy to something really heartfelt is handled well and she turned out to be a really likable and sympathetic character.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:11
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Harrow posted:Yeah, hers is my favorite link so far. Its tonal shift from awkward comedy to something really heartfelt is handled well and she turned out to be a really likable and sympathetic character. it feels like every single adult social link is about them being blackmailed
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Apr 17, 2017 21:13
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Moltrey posted:cloud shoulda stayed a girl Did you just completely ignore her intro? She's pretty heavily implying she isn't sleeping with the MC only because he's a high schooler before she realizes who he is. That along with some other comments she and others make are clearly trying to suggest the maid thing is at least partially prostitution.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:14
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Moltrey posted:cloud shoulda stayed a girl Went through Catherine a couple months back so some stuff might be hazy but the only things I recall were kinda subtle jabs that would fly over your head unless you already knew her deal like "Hey Erica are you having the dreams too?" I think you're not really remembering Toby as the guys never stop him or set him up as a prank or anything. Toby does it all on his own and the guys don't know if they should tell him or not and that's about it. Like the literal last shot of True Lovers has Erica with her arm around him and they're getting a drink together. Edit: There's this image in the credits  But like 10 seconds later in the next scene 
ThisIsACoolGuy fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Apr 17, 2017 |
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Apr 17, 2017 21:16
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Endorph posted:nobody is saying it should! why do you keep reacting like people want every game to have a fifteen hour lecture on lgbt discrimination when they're just going 'that joke kinda sucked poo poo and it'd be nice if it didn't suck poo poo' It just seems like a weird thing to get in arms about, a joke that isn't really funny has lead to people saying that there are no positive representations of homosexuaity in media that aren't jokes and all kinds of other hyperbolic poo poo. I'd much rather people treat homosexuality as another thing they can make unfunny jokes about instead of othering it either by hatred or eggshell walking, both piss me off. I realize the hypocrisy in calling people out for overacting to things on the internet when I just posted tons of paragraphs doing basally the same thing tho so I'm gonna just abort this comment chain here and go back to talking about things that matter, like which jrpg character is the strongest in a fight.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:17
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Zore posted:Did you just completely ignore her intro? She's pretty heavily implying she isn't sleeping with the MC only because he's a high schooler before she realizes who he is. Like 5000 yen doesn't make sense if you are actually having sex with the women
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Apr 17, 2017 21:19
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Moltrey posted:I always took the maid thing as almost like a hostess club thing where you are paying an attractive woman to come over in a french maid outfit to clean and toss around innuendo around for like an hour but nothing actually happens because that's not what this, there would not be flyers for this (or however Mishima found it) if there was sex involved In real life, you get off the menu services from "health workers". I'm sure 5000 yen doesn't accurately represent real world costs but either way, it's not going to be an all inclusive fee for what off the record acts may be offered. It'd be an appearance fee. She implies that she's not offering sex services but when the blackmail money goes up, she considers going into it.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:20
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