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thatguy
Feb 5, 2003
The people here just finding out MoMA is retarded are great.

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D1E
Nov 25, 2001


thatguy posted:

The people here just finding out MoMA is retarded are great.

I used to spend way too much time in this loving thread and I used the r-word in nearly every post.

Once I branched out into the less insular and toxic subforums I was mightily surprised to discover that everywhere else you get a probation for using it.

thatguy
Feb 5, 2003

ripptide posted:

Is it just me, or does anyone else think they did the ship design and then someone said "poo poo, we forgot to give it armaments" "Ah well, just tack a gun up here and the spergs will be happy".
It's just you. Thousands of hours go into the design of each ship and every curve and edge is built to be as realistic and immersive as possible.

thatguy
Feb 5, 2003

D1E posted:

I used to spend way too much time in this loving thread and I used the r-word in nearly every post.

Once I branched out into the less insular and toxic subforums I was mightily surprised to discover that everywhere else you get a probation for using it.
MoMA is a creepy mentally ill weirdo.

thatguy
Feb 5, 2003

thatguy posted:

MoMA is a creepy mentally ill weirdo.
Which part of the forum did this post come from? I can't tell.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Drunk Theory posted:

Ahh, but without Derek posting MoMA has no one he deems worthy of replying too.

It'd depend on what his mood is. There's a funny MoMA, a rich tastes MoMA, a bash everybody MoMA, a target everything Derek MoMA, and cig defense MoMA.

Some of these are personable and funny, others are almost silly in how mindlessly obvious they are at what they do. Regardless of how intellectual or wise MoMA seems, he'll rarely make a statement about his own feelings and actions if he's betrayed by cig development. When he does, he ultimately forgets, never responds to people calling him out on it, and continually moves his personal goal posts.

There was one guy who was a backer and was sensible and seemed honest about his expectations. As cig continued to fail he just gave up and I think he said he got a refund at some point but no longer posts. I think he was named Loiosh?

It's not bad to be a backer. It just gets silly when your own personal feelings and expectations constantly get bulldozer over by a multinational corporation doing everything it can do solely to take money. They don't even want a community any more. Just money. At what point do people start to scratch their heads?

Is it the "threat" of people saying it's a scam that makes people want to support it more? Basically just for the sake of argument and belonging to something? I guess it's totally fine, though hopefully they are not still shoveling their own money in to it.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

Real Gantt charts don't look like this. It is hilarious that this is what they passed off as a 'real schedule' and then that people ate it up.

A game with the scope of Star Citizen would probably have hundreds and hundreds of features all given their own row, organized probably by team and then maybe by sub-team or individual depending on team size. Some studios give them cute names (CoreTech - Team Blue, etc). The entire thing looks literally unbelievably amatuer for a studio with a 9-figure budget.

Yeah, this is true.

But is it motion capture? So really how much do you think CR will focus on it? Long enough to get some pictures and videos of him pointing at a computer screen while looking at things he doesn't know about.

Plus this will only last until he sees a movie or something and decides to shift the whole of Development to build a Coruscant (spelling, sorry guys) Star Wars flying car scene through a crowded city cutscene of "totally real gameplay".

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

Mirificus posted:

GeraltMasterWitcher


Witcher avatar








Mirificus fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Apr 18, 2017

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



kingcom posted:

What MOMA just loving said, was that the UI guy just loving throws some poo poo on the screen and the Game Designers need to guess and make best use out of the poo poo the UI person just stuck up there.

Eric Schaefer on the Diablo II UI posted:

I remember I was making the interface for [the skills trees]. There was a stone slab, and the skills would all fit into these sockets. And I thought, "OK, we're basically done, I'll just make this skill tree and this stone slab, and then we will fill it out with skills". At least ten, twenty times, almost per character, I'd have to redo the stone slab with different positions for the skills and different hierarchies between them. And we never had a tool to do this, so I had to render out a whole new stone slab every time we changed a single thing. I made a ton of stone skill tree slabs art over and over and over that all just got thrown away. So, that was a great example, if we had better tools, or if we knew what the process was going to be, I wouldn't have put all that work into it.
If only Eric had known the actual answer was to just stop iterating on the game design because the UI didn't allow it :shrug:

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

kingcom posted:

No but loving real talk about what the hell goes into designing something. The newest expansion for EU IV came out, a confirmed Good Game. In it they introduce a new mechanic called the 'Age' System where if you're managing to achieve specific goals during a time period the 'Age' is set in then you get points towards some nice bonuses right. See below:



For this to work you obviously need some kind of UI interface in order to actually allow the user to interact with it obviously.

Based on what MOMA just loving said. The Paradox Dev schedule looked like this:

1. Design the loving window and text field with no loving idea whats supposed to go in there and why. Just loving throw poo poo on the screen who cares
2. Come up with a game mechanic that will go in that window and make use of the dumb circles that DDRJake (anything wrong is probably his fault idk) put up on the sides for some reason.
3. Plan how that system is something that can impact the player and how they can make use of it in an interesting and dynamic way given the likelyhood for repetition, and rapidly different circumstances to achive this goal
4. Implement mechanics.
5. Test redesign/repeat


What MOMA just loving said, was that the UI guy just loving throws some poo poo on the screen and the Game Designers need to guess and make best use out of the poo poo the UI person just stuck up there.

The game design meetings are just them pointing at a UI and going
'He put a bunch of squares there ? Why, what do they mean? Should we have something players click on there, like its a bunch of options?
Oh OH maybe its showing you what you're unlocking?
No DAMNIT, the Squares down the right of the page are the ones where it shows what you're unlocking!
No no listen, what if unlocking the things on the right gives you points to unlock the things on the top right? Its like a goal and if you finish the goal you pick which bonus you want.

Goddamnit this pisses me off. Game Design and Development is loving hard and for someone to just piss on all the work and effort real loving teams go through to develop a piece of software, let alone the nightmare of a project that is a video game is infuriating. gently caress you MOMA you loving ignorant hack, gently caress you for deeming all the work actual developers put into their projects. gently caress you for the teams who have to solve complex problems and real legitimate challenges but thanks to their good planning and design philosophy and most importantly their game bible and technical design documents (THEY MADE FIRST) they have a way to solve them.

God loving damnit are you so utterly ignorant of anything to do with software development.

Whoa, friend. :)

Try not to let them get at you. Ignorance of reality is the Star Citizen motto.

Kosumo
Apr 9, 2016

Does anyone have a copy of the original Chris Robert Pledge where he said he would show where the money went if the game was late by more than 18 months?

Derek Smart, Derek Smart, Derek Smart ..... help a brother out Warlord.

thatguy
Feb 5, 2003

Kosumo posted:

Does anyone have a copy of the original Chris Robert Pledge where he said he would show where the money went if the game was late by more than 18 months?

Derek Smart, Derek Smart, Derek Smart ..... help a brother out Warlord.
The game is right on schedule.

Blue On Blue
Nov 14, 2012

Kosumo posted:

Does anyone have a copy of the original Chris Robert Pledge where he said he would show where the money went if the game was late by more than 18 months?

Derek Smart, Derek Smart, Derek Smart ..... help a brother out Warlord.

Isn't that 'the pledge' that was at one time prominently linked on their website , until someone noticed the link just 404d and cig was like uhh oops we will fix that right away !

no_recall
Aug 17, 2015

Lipstick Apathy
CIG doesn't receive death threats nor consumer complaints for their non-delivery and skipped deadlines because they're holding a hundred and ftfy million of backer money in ransom.

Makes you think.

Kosumo
Apr 9, 2016

Sappo569 posted:

Isn't that 'the pledge' that was at one time prominently linked on their website , until someone noticed the link just 404d and cig was like uhh oops we will fix that right away !

Yes, that Pledge but it was edit to take that part out of it (being that it would then date it's self badly and show that they did not do it).

You know, now you just edit those promise/pledges you make once you cant keep them ...... and not with "Sorry but I/we can't do that now" just change it and say "What do you mean, look right here it does not say that"

Blue On Blue
Nov 14, 2012

Kosumo posted:

Yes, that Pledge but it was edit to take that part out of it (being that it would then date it's self badly and show that they did not do it).

You know, now you just edit those promise/pledges you make once you cant keep them ...... and not with "Sorry but I/we can't do that now" just change it and say "What do you mean, look right here it does not say that"

Actually let me correct that , cig blmed turbulent for the missing pledge if I remember

I repeat myself. But does cig actually do anything (good or bad) or is absolutely every part of this project contracted out so they can lay blame more easily

Wait they make pretty space ship jpegs

Slow clap

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



I'm glad that CIG took 5 years to throw together a nonsensical development plan/timeline. This is definitely completely normal.

Thursday Next
Jan 11, 2004

FUCK THE ISLE OF APPLES. FUCK THEM IN THEIR STUPID ASSES.
So have they released details on the drink-mixing minigame yet? I haven't bought a spaceship but I was assured I'd be able to make enough money to buy one by hiring on as crew to a Captain of Industry.

TrustmeImLegit
Jan 14, 2017

by FactsAreUseless

Sappo569 posted:

Isn't that 'the pledge' that was at one time prominently linked on their website , until someone noticed the link just 404d and cig was like uhh oops we will fix that right away !

The pledge page is up but theres no link to it anywhere on the website. you have to have the page already bookmarked to get to it.

Blue On Blue
Nov 14, 2012

TrustmeImLegit posted:

The pledge page is up but theres no link to it anywhere on the website. you have to have the page already bookmarked to get to it.

So you're saying they never fixed it ?

Color me shocked

Kosumo
Apr 9, 2016

TrustmeImLegit posted:

The pledge page is up but theres no link to it anywhere on the website. you have to have the page already bookmarked to get to it.

Could you copy text here?

You can trust me, I'm somewhat legit.

Danknificent
Nov 20, 2015

Jinkies! Looks like we've got a mystery on our hands.
Now that there's a schedule do we know exactly when the next deadline will be missed? If so, what's the date?

Thursday Next
Jan 11, 2004

FUCK THE ISLE OF APPLES. FUCK THEM IN THEIR STUPID ASSES.
So can I buy a spaceship by mixing drinks yet or no

Blue On Blue
Nov 14, 2012

Thursday Next posted:

So can I buy a spaceship by mixing drinks yet or no

In your dreams

TrustmeImLegit
Jan 14, 2017

by FactsAreUseless

Kosumo posted:

Could you copy text here?

You can trust me, I'm somewhat legit.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/the-pledge

You’ve pledged your money to earn your Citizenship.

Now it’s our turn.

We, the Star Citizen team at Cloud Imperium, hereby promise to deliver the game you expect. You, the tens of thousands of pledgers, have allowed us to cut out the big publisher and build the game on our terms. To let us focus on quality free of the pressure to deliver by a certain financial quarter. To nurture a new original IP. To put fun ahead of shareholder profits.

We, the Developer, intend to treat you with the same respect we would give a publisher. You will receive regular updates about the progress of the game. We will do a show and tell for each major milestone. Your voice will be heard and represented in our development docs and our feature wish list. You will see art and video and learn about how we intend to implement gameplay mechanics well before the rest of the world. The website will be updated and the community will be maintained. Though the limitations of technology may slow us, we will always do the best for you: if it breaks, we will fix it.

There may be delays and there may be changes; we recognize that such things are inevitable and would be lying to you if we claimed otherwise. But when this happens, we will treat you with the respect you deserve rather than spending your money on public relations. When we need to change a mechanic or alter something you believe should be in the game, we will tell you exactly why.

Your support over the past month has been incredible. You’ve done your part, and we will now do our utmost to live up to your expectations. We will build you the game you are dreaming about.

Signed,
Chris Roberts and the Cloud Imperium Team

Kosumo
Apr 9, 2016

Sappo569 posted:

Actually let me correct that , cig blmed turbulent for the missing pledge if I remember

I repeat myself. But does cig actually do anything (good or bad) or is absolutely every part of this project contracted out so they can lay blame more easily

Wait they make pretty space ship jpegs

Slow clap

Oh, I'm sure that CIG contract out all the writing and directing work to another company owned by Chris Roberts, along with paying him and his wife fees to attend the live events. He may even be getting paid consultancy fees for his work for his own company.

All that work is top notch thought so it's all in the 'good' side of the ledger and a good use of backer funds.

Thursday Next
Jan 11, 2004

FUCK THE ISLE OF APPLES. FUCK THEM IN THEIR STUPID ASSES.

Ben is loving two years out from death at that weight.

Didn't sandi "best saleswoman ever" loving taunt him with doughnuts? I'm all for personal responsibility but Jesus gently caress

Kosumo
Apr 9, 2016

TrustmeImLegit posted:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/the-pledge

You’ve pledged your money to earn your Citizenship.

Now it’s our turn.

We, the Star Citizen team at Cloud Imperium, hereby promise to deliver the game you expect. You, the tens of thousands of pledgers, have allowed us to cut out the big publisher and build the game on our terms. To let us focus on quality free of the pressure to deliver by a certain financial quarter. To nurture a new original IP. To put fun ahead of shareholder profits.

We, the Developer, intend to treat you with the same respect we would give a publisher. You will receive regular updates about the progress of the game. We will do a show and tell for each major milestone. Your voice will be heard and represented in our development docs and our feature wish list. You will see art and video and learn about how we intend to implement gameplay mechanics well before the rest of the world. The website will be updated and the community will be maintained. Though the limitations of technology may slow us, we will always do the best for you: if it breaks, we will fix it.

There may be delays and there may be changes; we recognize that such things are inevitable and would be lying to you if we claimed otherwise. But when this happens, we will treat you with the respect you deserve rather than spending your money on public relations. When we need to change a mechanic or alter something you believe should be in the game, we will tell you exactly why.

Your support over the past month has been incredible. You’ve done your part, and we will now do our utmost to live up to your expectations. We will build you the game you are dreaming about.

Signed,
Chris Roberts and the Cloud Imperium Team

I believe there was a earlier different version - the one that enrage the Warlord about showing where the money was being spent.

Thanks for the link thought.

Thursday Next
Jan 11, 2004

FUCK THE ISLE OF APPLES. FUCK THEM IN THEIR STUPID ASSES.
Also hello thread I have not checked this subforum in a year, looks like we are still not subsumed by the fourth stimpire

Ben fat

Sandi unqualified

Chris idiot

Game vapor

Yes?

Wise Learned Man
Apr 22, 2008

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Lipstick Apathy

Kosumo posted:

Could you copy text here?

You can trust me, I'm somewhat legit.



It's so full of poo poo. They should have just changed it to "Now I have your money, so gently caress all of that. You'll eat poo poo and like it." At least that would be somewhat reflective of reality.

Wise Learned Man fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Apr 18, 2017

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Kosumo posted:

I believe there was a earlier different version - the one that enrage the Warlord about showing where the money was being spent.

Thanks for the link thought.

You're thinking of the TOS.

TrustmeImLegit
Jan 14, 2017

by FactsAreUseless

Kosumo posted:

I believe there was a earlier different version - the one that enrage the Warlord about showing where the money was being spent.

Thanks for the link thought.

Thats from the old TOS

Kosumo
Apr 9, 2016

Thanks, I'll look for that.

Cheers Goonies, I don't care if you are all a bunch of cuntifus, you are welcome to sleep in your cars parked out side my house any time!

boviscopophobic
Feb 5, 2016

The Titanic posted:

There was one guy who was a backer and was sensible and seemed honest about his expectations. As cig continued to fail he just gave up and I think he said he got a refund at some point but no longer posts. I think he was named Loiosh?
Unfortunately I think he had some kind of sense of sad resignation over the money and never chose to pursue a refund, or else he didn't inform us..

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

Hey, did RSI actually do away with their forums? Like, it's gone? What happened?

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao

Sappo569 posted:

Forget that they've crammed more into a single patch than they've managed to produce in 4 or 5 or 6 years of development all told

All it takes is one blocker or a slowed pipeline and they won't be able to refactor the code to make it all work

.... crap I think I'm infected

Sapo569, your suit!!!

ripptide
Jul 28, 2016

Kosumo posted:

I believe there was a earlier different version - the one that enrage the Warlord about showing where the money was being spent.

Thanks for the link thought.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't in the Pledge (specifically) but it was in the previous ToS.

EggsAisle
Dec 17, 2013

I get it! You're, uh...
I've been afraid to ask: where did the stimpire thing come from? Was it actually written by CIG, or was it fanfiction?

TrustmeImLegit
Jan 14, 2017

by FactsAreUseless

spacetoaster posted:

Hey, did RSI actually do away with their forums? Like, it's gone? What happened?

They closed em to force people to spectrum, a shittier 'alpha' forum . The Entire Spectrum General Forum has received 22 posts in the last hour. Its primetime with the main forums closed. Its dead.

This thread is usually faster.

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ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

Tippis posted:

Some truths have really stood the test of time, even in such an ever-changing field as computer languages:

[url="http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/ewd498.html"]

I just used VB because it's funny. The same problem arises from UI-first design in Delphi or Visual C++. It's a great tool when you've already designed the app. It's not so great when you're thinking of what it looks like before you know what it does.

Disclaimer: I program in old basic because retro-computing is fun for me.

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