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I'm starting to believe that the Jets will absolutely take Trubisky at 6 if he's available. I honestly don't think he'll be on the board though.
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Apr 18, 2017 15:20
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sean10mm posted:Who's going to be the first team to grotesquely reach for a weak QB prospect out of desperation this year? Do we count the Rams / Eagles / Vikings trades of their 1sts this year for Goff / Wentz / Bradford?
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Apr 18, 2017 15:33
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Demon Of The Fall posted:The Titans coddled VY like a newborn babe, I have no idea what else they could have done. He didn't study film, he didn't have the desire to get better. He coasted for a couple good years and then washed out like he would have on any other team. I don't care how good a supporting cast he has, no QB will be successful with bad coaching. Fisher is a mediocre coach who's awful at developing young players and has always surrounded himself with a crummy uninspired staff.
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Apr 18, 2017 15:39
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Bad coaching Pourous offensive line poo poo coordinators Cocaine habit NO WEAPONZ Eventually you just have to hold the QB accountable for being poo poo.
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Apr 18, 2017 16:00
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Kalli posted:Do we count the Rams / Eagles / Vikings trades of their 1sts this year for Goff / Wentz / Bradford? Wentz is looking legitimate if you go back and look at how terrible his WR's were last year. If he doesn't take a big step forward with a healthy Alshon Jeffrey and Torrey Smith it'll be cause for concern.
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Apr 18, 2017 16:31
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If the Browns only had the #1 pick, would Garrett still be the obvious pick or would we be having the "which QB deserves to go #1?" conversation?
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Apr 18, 2017 16:48
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I imagine they'd be more willing to try to trade down and get more picks.
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Apr 18, 2017 17:01
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The games faster than ever. QBs have to have elite reaction times and decision making to sniff what veteran QBs are doing. Luck is still one of if not the best QB prospects to ever come out in the NFL and he's only had two comparable seasons to veteran guys so far. Defenses are insane now in the NFL. College usually shows athletic man coverage or JAG zone coverage due to the ineptitude of the amateur ranks. NFL defenses have guys intentionally take three steps back then two steps forward to match your timing route because the DC had him in the locker room studying tape for five hours. Anyway point is you gotta give QBs a ton of time to develop now before you judge them and even after they bust it's pretty understandable since the position continues to be the hardest to play in the NFL.
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Apr 18, 2017 17:08
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Doltos posted:The games faster than ever. QBs have to have elite reaction times and decision making to sniff what veteran QBs are doing. Luck is still one of if not the best QB prospects to ever come out in the NFL and he's only had two comparable seasons to veteran guys so far. On top of all that, the college QB game diverged from the pro game to the point where you are basically trying to convert cricket players to baseball with some of these guys.
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Apr 18, 2017 17:17
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No Irish Need Imply posted:If the Browns only had the #1 pick, would Garrett still be the obvious pick or would we be having the "which QB deserves to go #1?" conversation? I do not think so. The Raiders, Bengals, Seahawks, Cowboys all built solid teams then plugged in a 2nd-4th round draft pick to find success. The 49ers also did in the short term and the Vikings were at least on their way before Bridgewater had that horrific injury and Washington as well weirdly stumbled into their answer for all they're trying to do to not keep him. This is success out of non-first round QB's that hadn't been seen since the 80's in a modestly short timeframe, so maybe it's a fluke, but more likely the analytical approach is going to try and trade that pick, and when failing, take the ridiculous pass rusher instead of reaching on a QB. Better QB's give you more leeway on the rest of your roster, but building a solid roster will let you win with an average QB. In comparison, when it comes to top of the draft QB's going to awful teams, you have, in the last decade, Luck, Cam, Stafford and Matt Ryan as clear successes, Tannehill should be as well but people are weird about him, and then 3 guys from the last two years which are on some variation of the right track. But, on the other hand, you also have Bortles, RG3, Locker, Gabbert, Bradford, Sanchez and JaMarcus, and none of the guys in this year's class stack up very well to many of these guys as prospects (apparently).
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Apr 18, 2017 17:21
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what the NFL needs is an actual developmental league where they can train QBs to do what the NFL needs them to do without the pressure of having to actually win real NFL games.
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Apr 18, 2017 17:26
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TheFlyingLlama posted:what the NFL needs is an actual developmental league where they can train QBs to do what the NFL needs them to do without the pressure of having to actually win real NFL games. Good thing they shut down NFL Europe!
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Apr 18, 2017 17:40
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TheFlyingLlama posted:what the NFL needs is an actual developmental league where they can train QBs to do what the NFL needs them to do without the pressure of having to actually win real NFL games. So.... college? Because you can forever find something that is a step between, but you'll never replicate what a real game is like because no matter what you're playing with people who couldn't play on Sunday.
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Apr 18, 2017 17:43
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Diva Cupcake posted:I'm starting to believe that the Jets will absolutely take Trubisky at 6 if he's available. I honestly don't think he'll be on the board though. If this was the year the Chiefs had the #1 pick and not the god forsaken geno smith year I'd already own a Trubisky jersey. But I wouldn't wear it because I'm too snobby to wear a football jersey as clothes
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Apr 18, 2017 17:44
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TBeats posted:So.... college? College is about winning college games, not training QBs to do what the NFL wants
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Apr 18, 2017 17:45
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Colleges care about winning too much. In an NFL development league there'd be a whole lot less gimmick offenses I imagine. Edit: beaten with less words...
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Apr 18, 2017 17:46
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PrinceRandom posted:Colleges care about winning too much. In an NFL development league there'd be a whole lot less gimmick offenses I imagine. What's a gimmick offense? 
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Apr 18, 2017 17:50
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PrinceRandom posted:Colleges care about winning too much. In an NFL development league there'd be a whole lot less gimmick offenses I imagine. Yeah but in a D-league you would have a lot less speed and talent. How many teams would you have? 10? 20? 32? Think about Brock Osweiller. Now think of what the Texans would have had at QB in a farm system if they had Brock Osweiller starting in the playoffs. Factor in injuries and I don't think it makes sense to have a D-league.
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Apr 18, 2017 17:52
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Air Raid obviously. Think about that before you draft Mahomes, Houston.
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Apr 18, 2017 17:51
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Wiccan Wasteland posted:What's a gimmick offense? Big 12 sissy stuff
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Apr 18, 2017 17:53
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Wiccan Wasteland posted:What's a gimmick offense? It's when you just run the drat ball
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Apr 18, 2017 17:59
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Honestly, if you have an utterly terrible QB situation, an NFL team could probably find some success running one of those gimmick offenses. At least more then they currently do. NFL coaches are insanely conservative though. I bet if the NFL expanded by like 8 teams, some would though, because the standard talent pool would just suck so bad at that point.
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Apr 18, 2017 18:02
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PrinceRandom posted:Big 12 sissy stuff Thank god, I thought you were going to bring up the Big 10 silly stuff or the ACC goofy things. Kalli posted:Honestly, if you have an utterly terrible QB situation, an NFL team could probably find some success running one of those gimmick offenses. At least more then they currently do. A lot of NFL teams are running stuff that some consider gimmicks. Pick plays and rub routes that teams run now can at least be traced back to the Air Raid when the base play was Mesh. Most of the innovation that we're seeing in the NFL now is due to coaches having the freedom to try stuff out in college before it transitioning up to the NFL. Wiccan Wasteland fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 18:02
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Kalli posted:Honestly, if you have an utterly terrible QB situation, an NFL team could probably find some success running one of those gimmick offenses. At least more then they currently do. I bet Chip Kelly would be great in the NFL
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Apr 18, 2017 18:09
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kiimo posted:I bet Chip Kelly would be great in the NFL It could! Chip proved himself an awful GM, but that first year in Philly his offense was really good, and last year, the 49ers loving sucked, but both Kaepernick and Carlos Hyde looked reasonably solid, especially considering their receiving core was an abortion.
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Apr 18, 2017 18:15
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Wiccan Wasteland posted:What's a gimmick offense? Everything that isn't the WCO
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Apr 18, 2017 18:26
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I think it might be fair to say that just about any offense will work if you have good coaches, good QB, good line and good playmakers who fit the system. I'd say that's more important than the system. They made the Run and Gun work, they made the Air Coryell work. The only obsolete offense in the NFL might be the wishbone.
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Apr 18, 2017 18:47
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All aboard the Beathard Train CHOOOHCOOO. https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/854383329591918592
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Apr 18, 2017 18:52
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Wiccan Wasteland posted:Thank god, I thought you were going to bring up the Big 10 silly stuff or the ACC goofy things. Panthers ran a zone read gimmick offense two years ago that led the NFL in scoring and I think red zone efficiency. The next year it was less effective. Not sure if it was the injuries and Stewart/Tolbert hitting that age wall for backs, but the feeling I got was gimmicks work to a point where teams have film on you, and then they adjust. The panthers were also running a very complex offense and after the injuries, they had a hard time plugging less experienced guys into that system. Either way, I think it had a 2 year lifespan tops before teams figured it out fully and started punishing us for running it (especially since it gave teams a free pass to hit Cam every time he ran the zone read).
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Apr 18, 2017 19:12
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Slowpoke! posted:Panthers ran a zone read gimmick offense two years ago that led the NFL in scoring and I think red zone efficiency. The next year it was less effective. Not sure if it was the injuries and Stewart/Tolbert hitting that age wall for backs, but the feeling I got was gimmicks work to a point where teams have film on you, and then they adjust. The panthers were also running a very complex offense and after the injuries, they had a hard time plugging less experienced guys into that system. Either way, I think it had a 2 year lifespan tops before teams figured it out fully and started punishing us for running it (especially since it gave teams a free pass to hit Cam every time he ran the zone read). The Panthers offense failed last year due to injuries on the offensive line and QB, as well as the drastic decline of Mike Tolbert. Regardless of whether or not the league figured it out, it's obvious officials are going to let defenders kill Cam, so they need to move onto something else. Of course it took Mike Shula basically three full seasons to come up with that offense so I don't have a lot of faith he's going to make something new.
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Apr 18, 2017 19:27
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kiimo posted:The only obsolete offense in the NFL might be the wishbone. that sounds like quitter talk to me
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Apr 18, 2017 19:30
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Walter Football mocks Peterman to the Browns in the 2nd because "obviously they're going to tank again". 
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Apr 18, 2017 20:11
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Kalli posted:Honestly, if you have an utterly terrible QB situation, an NFL team could probably find some success running one of those gimmick offenses. At least more then they currently do. I mean, this is what the 2011 Broncos did.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:42
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 quote:Cardinals QB Bruce Arians said there are 5 or 6 starting quarterbacks in this year's draft. He again called this year's QB class one of the best class of arms he's seen.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:52
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:I mean, this is what the 2011 Broncos did. The Killing of Timmy, Parts 1 & 2, was delightful.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:52
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Well I mean if all you look at is the arms it makes sense.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:10
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Post on Reddit listing all player visits with multiple meetings with the same team. https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/662pok/players_with_multiple_meetings_with_the_same_team/ quote:New York Jets
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Apr 18, 2017 22:38
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Chargers are working out Kizer
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Apr 18, 2017 23:58
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Kalli posted:I do not think so. I find it interesting that you're willing to call Carr a success already but Wentz is conspicuously missing from this post. Also the argument that maybe Bortles is ok.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:14
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Diqnol posted:I find it interesting that you're willing to call Carr a success already but Wentz is conspicuously missing from this post. Also the argument that maybe Bortles is ok. Because Wentz isn't a success or failure yet???
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Apr 19, 2017 00:28
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