|
Thufir posted:That anonymously quoted dude has to be AsinHowe, right? That'd be hilarious, but hell it's not as if the Wings' problems aren't clear as day to pretty much everyone, and I'm sure everybody in that organization under Holland knows it as well. poo poo, a concession stand worker could tell you what's wrong with them.
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 18:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 21:33 |
|
|
i think I found forums poster Wayne Gretzky's Youtube account: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2qNOhP69s_tOr5O2gXkYg it's a channel with a fuckload of highlights and clips from the 80s that i haven't seen before, a lot of 20-30 minute game footage type deals, too. there are a ton of awesome Messier elbows that would all be 8-gamers in the wussy modern NHL and also gems like "Claude Lemieux Punches Dominik Hasek - 1987 Canada Cup" and "Mike Foligno vs Drunk Bruins Fans - April 6,1989". you should really check it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0VlnqENm2g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ2NPGqS45M one of my favorites "Messier Runs Ledyard -1985" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH3cUAvvbkw
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 18:58
|
|
|
Oh poo poo this is an awesome find, boxc E: godddd i miss those bowling ball Jofa helmets like Foligno had DJExile fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Apr 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 19:02
|
|
|
DJExile posted:Oh poo poo this is an awesome find, boxc http://www.olympia-composites.com/category-s/114.htm
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 19:14
|
|
|
HA! That's awesome
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 19:21
|
|
|
Just chiming in to say gently caress Ken Holland sideways with a acid-soaked, fire ant-infested cactus
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 19:21
|
|
|
Is it the local guy who largely shits on Detroit's teams, especially Mike Ilitch, making his article something that Ken Holland will use to justify staying on, because his only critics "are just those out to get us"? *clicks article* Oh great, it is.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 19:28
|
|
|
Thufir posted:That anonymously quoted dude has to be AsinHowe, right? I would 100% believe it, and he's not wrong. That said, what a hilarious person to use as evidence in that article. Someone who "used to work for the Ilitches" is meaningless as an authority on the subject of what Ken Holland believes or doesn't believe. They might as well have literally just pulled a post from AsInHowe or anyone else in RWAS. edit: upon reading the rest, that article is pretty poo poo and we learn nothing from it. Holland's free agents haven't panned out, the Wings haven't found a star in the late rounds of recent drafts, and Holland refuses to 'blow up the team.' Duh. The idea that Yzerman would save the franchise goes completely unquestioned other than to say that Chris Ilitch sucks -- which is true, but that's kind of irrelevant to whether or not Yzerman is a GM wunderkind. RWAS could write a better article about Holland if we all took turns posting one word at a time. I'll start: Fire i am the bird fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Apr 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 19:28
|
|
|
It's not hard to poo poo on all 4 of detroit's teams when all 4 are a mess.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 19:35
|
|
|
This feels like a rehashed Jeff Moss column, without the profanity. The sources for this is absolutely someone who got fired for something stupid, and, because he knows how it will play in the office, Ken Holland. quote:Yzerman did not reply to texts and phone calls for comment. whoa, what a surprise there Ken AsInHowe fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Apr 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 19:36
|
|
|
DJExile posted:spectacular piece on deadspin that lays blame for the Red Wings' malaise directly at the feet of Ken Holland This is right on the fuckin money. Fire Ken Holland into the sun. e: quote:Last year, Gregg Krupa at the Detroit News finally confirmed it: Not only did Ilitch ask Holland to make room for Yzerman, but Holland refused. 
Henrik Zetterberg fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Apr 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 19:45
|
|
|
Kal This article is not off to a great start.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 19:49
|
|
|
tinstaach posted:Kal damnit, wrong Ken
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
I'm totally on board with getting the leathery-faced incompetent out of power so he stops loving everything up, but acting like everything would be just as successful as the late '90s if we only made the choice to install the most memorable faces from that era at the head of the table is a different kind of delusion, like it's not like we wouldn't be
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 20:00
|
|
|
If Yzerman took over the wings a few years ago instead of Holland standing firm and refusing to give up the position, they sure as hell wouldn't be back to dynasty levels but they'd at least be a whole lot fuckin' better off than they are right now. Even if the streak would still be dead (likely), they'd at least have a far clearer path forward than they do.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 20:09
|
|
|
DJExile posted:If Yzerman took over the wings a few years ago instead of Holland standing firm and refusing to give up the position, they sure as hell wouldn't be back to dynasty levels but they'd at least be a whole lot fuckin' better off than they are right now. Even if the streak would still be dead (likely), they'd at least have a far clearer path forward than they do. I think Yzerman could have maintained the streak, what he's done in Tampa has been quite good considering what he started with.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 20:12
|
|
|
Tampa loses their best player, barely miss the playoffs, and at the trade deadline offload a NMC contract and gain a draft pick. Yeah, I think he's doing pretty well. UNLIKE ANOTHER PLAYER TURNED GM JOE SAKIC
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 20:22
|
|
|
Yzerman may have been better if only because he isn't Ken 1: would he have had the same power to jettison players like he has done in Tampa? 2: would he have had the same confidence to do so given his longer relationship with players in Detroit? 3: would he have the same supporting staff considering Detroit's sycophantic and incestuous hiring schema? 4: would he have received support from fans and management to rebuild upon taking over? 5: would he be a more conservative GM in Detroit where his legacy is on the line? 6: would he have had a similar stockpile of assets to work with?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 20:48
|
|
|
i am the bird posted:Yzerman may have been better if only because he isn't Ken 1 and 2. Yes. He's Steve Yzerman, and ultimately, he could win any kind of brinksmanship within the Red Wings organization. While Mike Ilitch was an owner built on loyalty, he did allow for guys to be moved if the situation warranted it. And considering how much of the Red Wings' problems are on misplaced loyalty, Yzerman's reputation would allow for things to move at a quicker pace. 3. Yes. Yzerman took some key guys to Tampa, and sources say that Scotty Bowman's departure came from Holland taking all the credit for a room's worth of decision making. So, would Yzerman be doing better with the same supporting staff that led to the 2008 Cup? I think so. 4. Yes, absolutely, he's Steve Yzerman. 5. No. Yzerman's a smart guy, and he'd run the Red Wings just as he would run the Lightning, but with even more of a foundation to work with. It also would have led to free agents giving greater consideration to the Red Wings as well, which is something that fell off in this decade in Detroit. 6. What stockpile are you referring to? And given the seven seasons since he left, isn't it safe to say that most of Tampa Bay's assets at the present are due to Yzerman?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 21:16
|
|
|
6 more refers to assumptions that the team wouldn't have pursued the same general strategy in the early 10s. The rest of your evidence is just "Steve Yzerman is a god" so I don't know what to do with that. Look, I agree that Steve Yzerman probably would've been better based on Holland's godawful run during the same period and Tampa's general success, but that argument requires a lot of assumptions.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 21:27
|
|
|
having Hedman-Stamkos to build around is a pretty great situation, that's a top 5 F and D before he got there. they've done a great job through the draft/FA, but i'm not sure how much of that is due to luck and how much of that is due to him building out a good scouting team and making correct decisions. connolly-namestnikov-koekkoek-drouin-vasilevskiy-deangelo is pretty good for first rounders, especially given that he almost ran drouin out of town. kucherov/nesterov/palat/gudas/point were all 2nd round or later, not sure they projected to be as good as they are. same thing with signing Johnson--diminutive scoring overagers are a dime a dozen, but maybe they saw something different in him. given how bad most GMs are, i think he's pretty good, but who knows how he would have done in detroit. better than holland, surely.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 21:31
|
|
|
The Detroit envy mostly boils down to a) fire Ken Holland and b) Stevie Y nostalgia. It's not even clear that Yzerman was going to be successful when he went to Tampa, so the argument is ahistorical. But yeah, Yzerman is a good GM, has done really well for Tampa, and would be better than Ken Holland.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 21:40
|
|
|
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but missing the playoffs is just the tip of the iceberg that is Red Wings badness. About 1/3 of the their cap space is committed to Justin Abdelkader, Darren Helm, Luke Glendening, Niklas Kronwall, Jonathan Ericsson, and Danny DeKeyser for the next three years. Like, holy poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 21:42
|
|
|
In Holland's defense, locking up DeKeyser didn't seem like a terrible move at the time. So, uh...
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 21:53
|
|
|
Regardless of what he inherited coming into Tampa, resolving the Drouin situation and signing Stamkos and Hedman for what he did is pure wizardry on Yzerman's part.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 22:12
|
|
|
Yzerman handled the Stamkos situation well and he aced the Conacher/Bishop swap, but he also traded Gudas plus a first and third for Coburn, and signed Callahan to a contract worse than any on the Wings. Callahan put up four points in 18 games, and is signed for three more years at $5.8m each.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 23:02
|
|
|
iospace posted:UNLIKE ANOTHER PLAYER TURNED GM JOE SAKIC If Sakic had offloaded his "young stars" at the in-season trade deadline he would have had to have accepted significant underpay. He was looking for a Sergachev (who... no. Just no.) from the Habs for Duchene. That kind of trade only gets made if you're going up against a really dumb GM on a team desperate to break through. They don't seem to be as prevalent as they did 5 years ago.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 23:07
|
|
|
Zodijackylite posted:Yzerman handled the Stamkos situation well and he aced the Conacher/Bishop swap, but he also traded Gudas plus a first and third for Coburn, and signed Callahan to a contract worse than any on the Wings. Callahan put up four points in 18 games, and is signed for three more years at $5.8m each. Won't defend the Callahan contract, but Gudas was hurt that year and they knew they were going deep into the playoffs. Plus, they had two firsts (Callahan again) and really: Coburn is better suited for the style Tampa plays, and he's just all around better if you ask me. I think that signing Callahan was a mistake. Others would say we don't get Boyle or Stralman without Callahan. Butterfly effect.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 23:25
|
|
|
1) gently caress ken holland 2) fire ken holland 3) the main point of that article is dead on, even if some of the details are wrong/dumb (ericsson has always sucked, who gives a gently caress about steve yzerman etc.): the wings have been on the decline since 2010 and have year after year mortgaged their future in order to stay competitive. that and ken holland has signed some outright dumb loving contracts.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 23:59
|
|
|
tinstaach posted:I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but missing the playoffs is just the tip of the iceberg that is Red Wings badness. i was just thinking this the other day and that article highlighted it: the wings are going to be bad for a long, long time. and they'll be on the wrong track as long as holland is GM.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 23:59
|
|
|
I don't nearly have the energy nor resolve to type up the full effortpost that this rightfully deserves but Ken Holland is a jackass who has never done a drat thing for this team that wasn't already done, or could've been done, by anyone else that's been in the organization since the day he showed up. As time passes, he continues to prove himself, perhaps apocryphally but most likely not, to be a stubborn glory hog who cares more about his perceived legacy than the actual future of this team. Yzmeran is a what-if to be sure, and circumstances are definitely not the same as they were in Tampa but three things are 100% for sure: 1) Holland destroyed this team and put them in a huge hole that could very well rival '56-'91 2) Steve Yzerman would've absolutely done a better job, regardless of how minor that improvement would've been 3) Steve Yzerman will never be the GM of the Red Wings unless he's fired from Tampa and even then I'd put the odds drat close to zero
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:07
|
|
|
loving Fire Him
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:07
|
|
|
They should fire him and hire someone committed to the youth movement. A certain Pierre McGuire perhaps.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:09
|
|
|
Teemu Pokemon posted:1) Holland destroyed this team and put them in a huge hole that could very well rival '56-'91 I mean, the Wings have a lot of bad, long-term contracts that'll take a while to sort out, but I think saying that the Red Wings are headed for 40 years of darkness might be a little over the top...it only takes a couple years to rebuild a team from the ground up. Well, unless you have Oilers-level management, then it takes a decade. But still...probably better than the Dead Wings era! 
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:25
|
|
|
Go to cap friendly and look at their roster in 2024 and honestly with a straight face tell me that even if they do choose to finally blow it up and do a proper rebuild, that they'll be anything more than a first round sacrificial lamb by like 2030 the absolute earliest, just as they've been the last few years and doubtful they'd be much better for a few years following barring some incredible luck. e: I did say, paraphrasing myself, "quite possibly." all it takes is a few bad hires and some lovely draft picks, and that 2030 could be 2040. Not to mention that if that stuff about Chris and the Illitch family are actually true, this could be a full blown reverse Wirtz situation Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Apr 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:26
|
|
|
the fact that ken holland still has a job is telling of this franchise's future.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:45
|
|
|
true facts put that on a snapple cap
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:51
|
|
|
http://detroitsportsrag.com/the-nuclear-option/
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:52
|
|
|
Barring some crazy outlier season next year, I doubt Holland will get a new contract. I'm going to be the voice of positivity and incredible delusion for RWAS.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 21:33 |
|
|
There are five different forwards from the 2002 cup team I would rather have running the team than Ken Holland
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:58
|
|