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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Nah, don't get me wrong, that sequence is about Shinji being gross and selfish... in the context of having a nervous breakdown, because he's a child soldier caught in the middle of a power play between adults whose motives he doesn't understand and who have constantly abused his trust. The fact that there's a context around Shinji's actions doesn't change the fact that the film really, really wants you to hate him despite him being the audience surrogate. It's hard to see why else you'd open with him masturbating to a comatose girl, have said girl (who has an equally tragic backstory) have the bulk of the heroic moments in the film while Shinji cowers uselessly, and then end with Shinji trying to strangle her while she says to him with full contempt "how disgusting". Essentially I agree with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAMAwErYRpQ ImpAtom posted:Evangelion isn't a bitter "you loving suck and I hate you" thing. It's genuinely a work that has something to say about relationships between people and how hosed up and messed up they can be. There is an undercurrent of anger to it but the anger isn't just at hardcore fans because they suck but anger at a lot of things including Anno having anger at himself. The franchise is critical as a whole of anime nerds but keep in mind that criticism includes the staff. It isn't people doing a gently caress-you to people they hate, it involves a lot of personal elements, self-loathing and a healthy dose of massively slashed budget. I think that sympathy essentially disappears for EoE.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:23
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 Maybe I'm crazy but all the people in this movie look like they were drawn from referencing people in Pinocchio (except above is just an example of someone who doesn't know how to draw) 
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Apr 18, 2017 23:26
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ThermoPhysical posted:I feel like I've been summoned here by this post. Seriously, I want Clawhauser to get more screen time in the inevitable sequel. We clearly need a Clawhauser spinoff. Either a movie or a tv series
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Apr 18, 2017 23:27
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there are no heroic moments in EoE, and the real audience surrogate is Misato
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Apr 18, 2017 23:29
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Those stills really have a 40s Disney feel, and look at Joe's thumb, it's a loving flesh ribbon.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:29
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Fangz posted:The fact that there's a context around Shinji's actions doesn't change the fact that the film really, really wants you to hate him despite him being the audience surrogate. It's hard to see why else you'd open with him masturbating to a comatose girl, have said girl (who has an equally tragic backstory) have the bulk of the heroic moments in the film while Shinji cowers uselessly, and then end with Shinji trying to strangle her while she says to him with full contempt "how disgusting". The fact that you see a hosed up and broken teenager and hate him for something disgusting he did at his very lowest moment is not really something the film supports, no. You're supposed to find it disgusting but a major theme in Evangelion is that everyone has done disgusting things. You post on SomethingAwful.com and in something less your lowest moment you've probably laughed at the misery of others, made jokes about torture and death, or something else you're ashamed and disgusted by and would never admit. You, as the audience, see the character do this thing and it is horrifying and shocking but never portrayed as anything but. It is a broken act of a broken individual struggling to find some relevant desperate feeling as his life is stripped away from him. It does not make it good, likable or sympathetic but Evangelion doesn't hate Shinji even at the end. It pities him. At the end of the day however it says that Shinji, as pitiable and pathetic as he is, is a living being who deserves to exist. It doesn't say he's a hero, it doesn't say he's a great person. It says he's a living being. The big thing Evangelion stresses is that even if life sucks you should live it.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:30
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All my friends watched Evangelion during high school. I thought it was kinda neat as a very strange alien invasion story but all the philosophy and mythology and pseudoscience and mysticism went totally over my head. I lost interest halfway through. One of my friends got suuuper into that stuff and it was all he talked about for years. He thought it was like the deepest thing ever. Other friends talked mainly about the boobs I just wanted to watch a cool action/sci-fi cartoon show 
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Apr 18, 2017 23:35
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That face that kid is pulling reminds me a bit of Joan Cornelia's comics. He's going to pull out a knife stab his uncle, and then himself in a glorious blood fountain
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Apr 18, 2017 23:34
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ImpAtom posted:The fact that you see a hosed up and broken teenager and hate him for something disgusting he did at his very lowest moment is not really something the film supports, no. You're supposed to find it disgusting but a major theme in Evangelion is that everyone has done disgusting things. You post on SomethingAwful.com and in something less your lowest moment you've probably laughed at the misery of others, made jokes about torture and death, or something else you're ashamed and disgusted by and would never admit. You, as the audience, see the character do this thing and it is horrifying and shocking but never portrayed as anything but. It is a broken act of a broken individual struggling to find some relevant desperate feeling as his life is stripped away from him. It does not make it good, likable or sympathetic but Evangelion doesn't hate Shinji even at the end. It pities him. That's a cool and good moral angle, but I'm talking about how EoE presents Shinji. You don't begin and end a movie on a character's worst moment if you want the audience to like him.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:36
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Fangz posted:That's a cool and good moral angle, but I'm talking about how EoE presents Shinji. You don't begin and end a movie on a character's worst moment if you want the audience to like him. EoE begins and ends with his worst moments, but in between he saves the entire human race by making the correct decision to accept suffering and misunderstanding as the necessary cost of human existence. That's not a message of spite or hatred, it's a message of "all this, and yet..."
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Apr 18, 2017 23:41
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Anyways, there's nothing uniquely deep or special about Evangelion beyond good character writing, it's just that it deliberately hides the ball re: setting lore-wanking, which leaves you nothing else to talk about except "what are these people doing to each other and what does it mean." I am far less interested in holding up Evangelion in particular than I am in getting people to talk about all fiction that way (a battle I fought and lost in ADTRW.  )
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Apr 18, 2017 23:44
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Anime is poison
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Apr 18, 2017 23:46
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PenguinKnight posted:That face that kid is pulling reminds me a bit of Joan Cornelia's comics. He's going to pull out a knife stab his uncle, and then himself in a glorious blood fountain so that's what his smile reminded me off, I was just thinking it looks weirdly familiar.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:49
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Hedrigall posted:Anime is poison hes right
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Apr 18, 2017 23:48
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I listed a lot of good, non-Ghibli anime movies, and once I see it, I expect A Distant Voice to be another. But Your Name sucks.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:49
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What's with the Your Name hate the past couple pages  Maybe if you're super sensitive to melodrama, I could see how it might be grating. I thought it was a cute story with a nice emotional core though  If you're going to watch a Shinkai film, Your Name is definitely his best effort and it wasn't as "cringy" (I guess?) as his other films.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:49
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Hedrigall posted:I wish they'd move the Ghibli blurays into the normal animation section at the stores I visit so I don't have to step into the anime aisle My Barnes and Noble do this because it's Disney. I think the Gkids stuff is in anime though even if its french
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Apr 18, 2017 23:50
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:EoE begins and ends with his worst moments, but in between he saves the entire human race by making the correct decision to accept suffering and misunderstanding as the necessary cost of human existence. That's not a message of spite or hatred, it's a message of "all this, and yet..." He doesn't save the human race, he opts out of the collective consciousness. The sea of tang is still there. Whether him leaving the tang is good or bad is pretty unclear.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:51
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Fangz posted:He doesn't save the human race, he opts out of the collective consciousness. The sea of tang is still there. Whether him leaving the tang is good or bad is pretty unclear. Nah, it's absolutely clear. His moment of truth isn't "I don't want this," it's "this is wrong," and his decision precipitates Yui's declaration that anyone who wishes to return will be able to do so.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:52
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In good movie news, The Red Turtle kicks rear end and that's a great loving movie 10/10 would Red Turtle.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:53
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teagone posted:What's with the Your Name hate the past couple pages I forgot about Mt. St. Helens in 3 years
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Apr 18, 2017 23:55
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Pick posted:I forgot about Mt. St. Helens in 3 years Well that explains it. You're a monster 
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Apr 18, 2017 23:55
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Motto posted:hes right nah, anime is Pick posted:In good movie news, The Red Turtle kicks rear end and that's a great loving movie 10/10 would Red Turtle. That is a good lookin movie 
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Apr 18, 2017 23:57
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Anime is cartoons.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:58
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I need to give Cowboy Bebop a shot. I bought the blurays after all
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Apr 19, 2017 00:00
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Anime, more like anaemic am I rite?
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Apr 19, 2017 00:01
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Hedrigall posted:I need to give Cowboy Bebop a shot. I bought the blurays after all do yourself a favour and watch it in Japanese, don't fall for the dub hype
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Apr 19, 2017 00:05
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teagone posted:What's with the Your Name hate the past couple pages Hey man, I like Your Name and Shinkai too. High five?
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Apr 19, 2017 00:05
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Hedrigall posted:Anime, more like anaemic am I rite? I am so terribly sorry that we're talking about cartoons in a context that is making you uncomfortable with the thread, Hedrigall. My heart bleeds for you.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:05
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*casts fishing line* A Silent Voice is by the director who made k-on
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Apr 19, 2017 00:06
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I am so terribly sorry that we're talking about cartoons in a context that is making you uncomfortable with the thread, Hedrigall. My heart bleeds for you. Hahaha
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Apr 19, 2017 00:07
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I am so terribly sorry that we're talking about cartoons in a context that is making you uncomfortable with the thread, Hedrigall. My heart bleeds for you. 
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Apr 19, 2017 00:09
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Oh maaaaan I got owned 
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Apr 19, 2017 00:11
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I am so terribly sorry that we're talking about cartoons in a context that is making you uncomfortable with the thread, Hedrigall. My heart bleeds for you. 
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Apr 19, 2017 00:11
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For serious, did anyone get that massive Miyazaki box set that came out a couple of years ago? I've been salivating over it but I recently heard it's super barebones with no special features. Now I'm just considering getting the individual titles I want because they at least have some making of stuff.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:12
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hosed up that I got bait-ninjaed like that
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Apr 19, 2017 00:14
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teagone posted:What's with the Your Name hate the past couple pages In addition to all of the above it involves time travel which gently caress that.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:15
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starkebn posted:do yourself a favour and watch it in Japanese, don't fall for the dub hype 99% of dubs in this world are loving awful. Also, Cowboy Bebop is a dope movie, made even better after watching the series.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:19
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Drifter posted:99% of dubs in this world are loving awful. the only good ones are the ones from shows I watched as a kid 
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Apr 19, 2017 00:22
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Dubs can enhance comedy but either the original needs to be really bad to begin with so you have nothing to lose, or the dub team needs to take a genuine creative role and not just try to reproduce the original 1:1. (True of all translations, really.) Or ideally, both.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:23
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