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Glenn Quebec posted:I'm not worried. Everything was on the up and up with the meeting. It was set in advance and all parties knew what it was about. Because HK couldn't provide real numbers or explain what happened aside from the grossest of negligence, it's on them. Sounds like someone is getting a trip to Hong Kong for a personal audit.
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Apr 18, 2017 21:08
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Glenn Quebec posted:I'm not worried. Everything was on the up and up with the meeting. It was set in advance and all parties knew what it was about. Because HK couldn't provide real numbers or explain what happened aside from the grossest of negligence, it's on them. You didn't prevent the problem, but at least you noticed it before it became a huge deal. Of course now they can never promote you because you are essential in the position you're in. Mr. Nice! posted:Sounds like someone is getting a trip to Hong Kong for a personal audit. Enjoy the lead and arsenic tea!
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Apr 18, 2017 21:13
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Mr. Nice! posted:Sounds like someone is getting a trip to Hong Kong for a personal audit. Audit the haier cave!
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Apr 18, 2017 21:16
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Mr. Nice! posted:Sounds like someone is getting a trip to Hong Kong for a personal audit. Yeah now you get to be the one to be taken out and dined.
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Apr 18, 2017 21:21
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Glen I can't help but feel you were in a poo poo spot, got out of it, and now feel safe but there's a bucket flying at the back of your head that hasn't been noticed yet. Also someone's about to get into a bunch of poo poo and they think it's your fault. Enemy for life. Watch your back. Also make sure to heed all the advice of a bunch of internet weirdos.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:23
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Glenn Quebec posted:I'm not worried. Everything was on the up and up with the meeting. It was set in advance and all parties knew what it was about. Because HK couldn't provide real numbers or explain what happened aside from the grossest of negligence, it's on them. the most frustrating part of my old job was trying to take China poo poo and repackage it into something somewhat understandable by western standards. if China just stays in China I'm fine dealing with it, it's when someone says "TGA can you email **** in USA for us" and I know that I'll be having to email things that make no logical sense in USA I am so incredibly blessed I do not have to do that anymore
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Apr 18, 2017 22:49
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No logical sense meaning? What's in the emails autismo?
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Apr 18, 2017 23:01
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The Great Autismo! posted:the most frustrating part of my old job was trying to take China poo poo and repackage it into something somewhat understandable by western standards. if China just stays in China I'm fine dealing with it, it's when someone says "TGA can you email **** in USA for us" and I know that I'll be having to email things that make no logical sense in USA This is something I'd like to emphasize. The frustration was palpable in the office. My boss sifted through the stuff ahead of time but I think having to voice it is different. We are an extremely consensus driven company so people are always checking and constantly updating each other. This is a global thing and a culture the company demands. So there are dozens of emails with people other than myself (myself included) who've reached out to this team over the past year or so and every time they have checked in like, a-ok boss, all good here. Then the utter obfuscation, in the most utterly Chinese way in the most recent e-mails are stunning. Like these aren't even the people we have been corresponding with since like, ever. Whatever. I'll take a Chinese bullseye to the head. There will be no follow through or trouble aside from ill will and Eustace will kiss my rear end because there has been a clear line that I am to review the work she liases. Because to do otherwise she will lose face.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:06
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Boiled Water posted:No logical sense meaning? poo poo like answering in the beginning of an email thread instead of the most recent and answering a question already answered and then not responding to the most recent and more salient email ever again and when they do you, all you get is a long rear end "I already answered you."
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Apr 18, 2017 23:09
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Boiled Water posted:No logical sense meaning? like when we are well passed a deadline and people in the usa are waiting for stuff and getting increasingly angry that they don't have it, my boss or HR lady would tell me "you can tell the people in usa to have a rest" they don't want to have a rest, they want you to do your loving job. and of course i can't write "sorry we're two weeks late on this thing, just have a rest" so i have to try to repackage the email so it sounds somewhat respectable. so then i have to email the person in usa that, and then the person in usa writes me a rude email telling me i am totally screwing them over and they can't keep waiting and then i go to tell my boss and he's sleeping in his office
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Apr 18, 2017 23:32
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Outrail posted:Glen I can't help but feel you were in a poo poo spot, got out of it, and now feel safe but there's a bucket flying at the back of your head that hasn't been noticed yet. You didnt kill your enemy, you only wounded them. They will come back for you. Sleep with one eye open.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:33
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What does that even mean? I can parse the content but not how it's a viable excuse in a business environment. I'm getting angry just from reading it.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:33
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Boiled Water posted:What does that even mean? I can parse the content but not how it's a viable excuse in a business environment. I'm getting angry just from reading it. i'm trying to find an example from my email to show you what i wrote, lol
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Apr 18, 2017 23:39
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"have a rest" was the go-to phrase at my old job to indicate that "this is not done yet for whatever reason, so tell that person to chill out" it works if you're waiting for something for an extra fifteen minutes and you have a book in your lap. it doesn't work when there was a deadline for something that you yourself set and you are weeks past it and people are emailing you daily asking where xxx is that they are waiting for. boston: "hey i'm waiting for that form you said you would send by the end of january and its the third week of february" me: "maybe you can have a rest" doesn't quite translate
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Apr 18, 2017 23:43
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these past few weeks i've actually been working with a professor in usa who does stuff on cross-cultural communication and earlier this week she gave an hour and a half presentation on how cultures view time, and her two examples were usa and china. it was pretty therapeutic for me because it really drove home how i am not going crazy and how difficult it is to translate something like time from china to usa. i don't have her PPT or notes with me right now they are in my office but it was pretty much usa: views time linearly. time is a commodity that you have a set amount of. schedules are kept and if they can't be, you move on to the next thing and skip the thing that didn't happen. i.e. meeting with work mate from 1-2, if the person shows up at 1:50, you leave at 2 anyway. china: time is circular. there is always more time. do numerous things at once, starting some and starting others later and finishing whenever. schedules are flexible, if the first meeting isn't kept, push every possible thing back until the first meeting is over. i.e. meeting with work mate from 1-2, person shows up at 1:50, you're there till 2:50 with them, maybe even later having tea because they are sorry they were late, so everything is pushed back. time in china and in usa/canada/uk are viewed very very differently and if you are just working in china its fine. its when you start crossing cultures and have different understandings and different cultural values with regards to things is when china gets super difficult. at least for me.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:48
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Would it have been bad for you if you just added a post script to the effect of "Look dude, THESE PEOPLE AREN'T EVEN WORKING I'M SORRY" because drat.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:48
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Punctuality is civilized behavior and a lack of punctuality is degenerate barbarism. The germans and dutch have the right idea. Going to be 5min late? You phone/text and apologize and better have a drat good excuse. If you say yes to a plan, that's literally written down in your planner and it's a set commitment that you don't flake out of. Dinner at 5:15? You're there at 5:15, and if you don't bring a +1 unless it was agreed on before hand. My co-worker is dating a fellow from south africa and there's a lot of this "cultural time" poo poo. In his culture you apparently just say yes to all plans and commitments, but it doesn't mean anything it's just being polite. "Dinner at 5 tomorrow?" yes. "Movie at 5:30 tomorrow?" yes. "Are you free to help me move from 3 till 6?" yes. Then you just show up to some or none when ever you have time and act very confused when people are upset because you certainly don't expect anyone else to be punctual or do what they said. Already an hour late to an event and they're asking you if you are coming? Say yes even if you're still in bed. Just always say yes. Can you finish this by the end of the work day? Yes. You didn't finish it, will it be done in the morning? yes. You said it would be done in the morning?? Afternoon? yes. next day? Yes. Always yes, it's always ready soon. It's not that you don't know how long it will take, you knew from the start it would take 3 days, but you just say yes to what ever timeline they said because it will be done when it's done, what's the fuss?? Have a rest.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:05
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here's one, after telling someone we need at least another week and HR told me to tell them to "have a rest" quote:I've been told it should be done sometime in the next week. I know that's what we've said before, and I can only tell you what I'm being told.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:08
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i am p sure there are at least two people in the united states who despise me and if they ever see me on a street will try to punch me in the face, because they got emails like this for months because my boss changed his original mind and kept putting stuff off hoping it would go away but refusing to tell me that or have me tell the person that, and then finally the people in usa got upset and were like "gently caress u we're finished" and i felt like poo poo about it and my boss was like "hey great problem solved"
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Apr 19, 2017 00:10
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The Great Autismo! posted:i am p sure there are at least two people in the united states who despise me and if they ever see me on a street will try to punch me in the face, because they got emails like this for months because my boss changed his original mind and kept putting stuff off hoping it would go away but refusing to tell me that or have me tell the person that, and then finally the people in usa got upset and were like "gently caress u we're finished" and i felt like poo poo about it and my boss was like "hey great problem solved" If anyone's mad at you personally that's hosed up. "Don't shoot the messenger" and all.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:11
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Baronjutter posted:Punctuality is civilized behavior and a lack of punctuality is degenerate barbarism. The germans and dutch have the right idea. Going to be 5min late? You phone/text and apologize and better have a drat good excuse. If you say yes to a plan, that's literally written down in your planner and it's a set commitment that you don't flake out of. Dinner at 5:15? You're there at 5:15, and if you don't bring a +1 unless it was agreed on before hand. i agree i am a very punctual person but you can't really be punctual in china so you have to be willing to go along with the south african way of cultural time like you described. start at 10 means "more or less we hope like half the people will be there between 9:55 and 10:15 and i guess we'll just see what we got" because Yao is probably stuck in a traffic jam and ooop Zhou's toilet is leaking at home so he's waiting for a plumber that's having a nap under a bridge 3km away and Wang's husband got really drunk last night and has a bad hangover so she's making him some tea and will be half an hour late, etc etc etc i just always show up on time and bring a book. i've got a lot of reading done since coming to china.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:15
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The Great Autismo! posted:i am p sure there are at least two people in the united states who despise me and if they ever see me on a street will try to punch me in the face, because they got emails like this for months because my boss changed his original mind and kept putting stuff off hoping it would go away but refusing to tell me that or have me tell the person that, and then finally the people in usa got upset and were like "gently caress u we're finished" and i felt like poo poo about it and my boss was like "hey great problem solved" I want to punch your boss.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:15
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Baronjutter posted:Punctuality is civilized behavior and a lack of punctuality is degenerate barbarism. The germans and dutch have the right idea. Going to be 5min late? You phone/text and apologize and better have a drat good excuse. If you say yes to a plan, that's literally written down in your planner and it's a set commitment that you don't flake out of. Dinner at 5:15? You're there at 5:15, and if you don't bring a +1 unless it was agreed on before hand. If you said this in the D&D thread you would be probed for casual racism by the way
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Apr 19, 2017 00:25
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That attitude from your boss is hilarious. What would have happened if you had told the US guys the truth and been like "Getting things done on time isn't a priority here, it'll probably be completed at some point. My boss is currently taking a nap."
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Apr 19, 2017 00:30
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I couldn't deal with that poo poo. The idea of having to wait on people to show up is irritating, especially if it means i'm gonna have to stay even later to finish up the goddamn job. note to self, never seek work outside of the states, canada, or western europe.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:31
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GoutPatrol posted:If you said this in the D&D thread you would be probed for casual racism by the way Isn't that the Race Blindness problem? As in... 1a) Racism is thinking other ethnicities are intrinsically not respectable. 1b) notRacism is thinking other ethnicities are intrinsically respectable. 2) [Fail to consider differences between groups] 3) [Default to:] Middle-Class White People are intrinsically respectable. 4) Other ethnicities are Middle-Class White People. And then you're left with conversations like: Goon 1: Yeah, they're making huge strides in public sanitation. It's still pretty harrowing in the cities, though. Goon 2: [Conflicts with Middle-Class White People] Whoa, racism much? Accretionist fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 00:35
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GoutPatrol posted:If you said this in the D&D thread you would be probed for casual racism by the way 
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Apr 19, 2017 00:36
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Ccs posted:That attitude from your boss is hilarious. What would have happened if you had told the US guys the truth and been like "Getting things done on time isn't a priority here, it'll probably be completed at some point. My boss is currently taking a nap." yeah i mean this would have been great and all but it makes us look incredibly unprofessional, right? idk i was trying to remain professional, even though i guess it wasn't necessary. "Hey, we'll get it done. Everyone here is super lazy and half my office is sleeping. I keep telling them to do the work and they just kind of laugh and go back to watching TV dramas on their mobile phones. Hope USA is great, buddy!" while that would have been therapeutic to send, i don't think it would have been the best choice professionally
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Apr 19, 2017 00:42
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The Great Autismo! posted:like when we are well passed a deadline and people in the usa are waiting for stuff and getting increasingly angry that they don't have it, my boss or HR lady would tell me "you can tell the people in usa to have a rest" It sounds like your boss was hired for his ability to have a rest.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:44
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This was a hige issue when i worked in a global position and why I no longer do. It was the worst 8 months of making no progress on asks, being told it would be done, it not getting done, then being blamed by the US side for not working harder to make sure tasks were finished.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:48
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Barudak posted:This was a hige issue when i worked in a global position and why I no longer do. It was the worst 8 months of making no progress on asks, being told it would be done, it not getting done, then being blamed by the US side for not working harder to make sure tasks were finished. This is pretty much me at the moment. Been here for 4 months and I'm already looking for a new job. Had an interview last week and a few more coming up. It's just the worst job in the world. Having people actively and obviously lie to you and then getting blamed for it is the worst.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:59
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basic hitler posted:I couldn't deal with that poo poo. The idea of having to wait on people to show up is irritating, especially if it means i'm gonna have to stay even later to finish up the goddamn job. I had a acquaintance from one of the temporally negligent cultures. I told her we are leaving for snowboarding at 8AM be at my house so we can carpool over. I get a call from her at noon while im on the mountain, "where is everyone?" Biiiitch we are snowboarding. Why would we wait 4 hours for her? After about 7 more similar instances she started to realize that other people value their own time and she should maybe show up on time if she wants to participate. just kidding, she posted on facebook how unnamed people were mean to her and refused to reflect on her own chronic lateness
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Apr 19, 2017 01:24
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http://www.businessinsider.com/how-different-cultures-understand-time-2014-5quote:Chinese um source plz
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Apr 19, 2017 01:34
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I remember before I moved to Japan that I read some article that was fawning over the Perfectly Punctual Train System, and how if trains were even a minute late that the company would "Issue a sincere apology to the customers waiting". As soon as I got here I realized that meant that whenever a train was late an announcing came over the intercom and said "The train will be late, sorry for the inconvenience".
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Apr 19, 2017 02:39
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The Great Autismo! posted:http://www.businessinsider.com/how-different-cultures-understand-time-2014-5 lol this is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever read in my life. I cannot think of a single instance in three years when something was on time. I've done two major adaptations to deal with Chinese Time: A) If there's a work thing from 2-4 PM, I stop working and leave at 4 PM whether it's finished or not. B) If I'm meeting people for dinner or whatever at 6 PM, I leave my apartment at 6 PM. This way, when I arrive at 7 I only have to wait ten or fifteen minutes for the others to show up instead of over an hour.
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Apr 19, 2017 03:04
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I used to hang out with Brazilians. If you aren't going to wait an hour, don't bother waiting at all.
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Apr 19, 2017 03:05
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im the sense of common trust and intent that is the bedrock of chinese business transactions
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Apr 19, 2017 03:05
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GoutPatrol posted:If you said this in the D&D thread you would be probed for casual racism by the way And the extra good part is literally every time I've ever brought this up with Chinese people they're like "I know right? We're always late lol!"
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Apr 19, 2017 03:06
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Who has more punctual trains than Japan though?
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Apr 19, 2017 03:12
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japan trains are p punctual i thought, but i do have to tell my wife we are leaving about 20 minutes earlier than i intend to, because she will be at least another ten minutes past the time every single time, and then half the time something comes up in that time that requires an extra 5-10 minutes. so if i want to leave for somewhere at 8:30, i always tell her we need to leave by 8:15 at the VERY latest, and we're usually out the door by 8:25-8:30
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Apr 19, 2017 03:19
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