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Conskill posted:I could see Voidborne staying an ascension perk, but it definitely should be positioned as a first or second potential pick instead of locked into deep, deep engineering.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:10
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Splicer posted:It "makes sense" that you have to know how to build the biggest ships and biggest stations before you can build the biggest stations, but at the same time ehhhhh. Make it a first pick option with only 4 tiles to start with and have every station research add another tile. I donno, like I said down thread, I think "big honking habitats" could be conceived of as even a pre-FTL technology. It's a commitment to a giant engineering project rather than a particularly fantastical one, which is why I think it makes sense as an ascension perk unmoored or at least significantly loosened from raw technology progress.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:11
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Conskill posted:I could see Voidborne staying an ascension perk, but it definitely should be positioned as a first or second potential pick instead of locked into deep, deep engineering. LordAbaddon posted:I think its more that Voidborne has no right to be its own perk instead of a mid-game tech. I could see Habitats being a tech, and maybe have the ringworlds perk locked behind the galactic wonder perk (maybe able to be taken as a second perk rather than a third)
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Apr 18, 2017 22:13
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Habitats should just be a tech with voidborn making them cheaper/bigger/better.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:15
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I named a species Scum because they're terrible little monsters. In my Banks game with them I ended up generating a subspecies called Trans-Scum  Would've liked an option to change species names in-game.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:30
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Baronjutter posted:Habitats should just be a tech with voidborn making them cheaper/bigger/better. They also shouldn't count as colonies for the purposes of Tradition costs, either. They're meant to be an aid to a tall playstyle, not a hindrance. I assume they count as colonies but haven't checked and didn't let that get in the way of complaining.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:32
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I named a species Scum because they're terrible little monsters. In my Banks game with them I ended up generating a subspecies called Trans-Scum Just call your next species Phobe.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:32
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Splicer posted:It "makes sense" that you have to know how to build the biggest ships and biggest stations before you can build the biggest stations, but at the same time ehhhhh. Make it a first pick option with only 4 tiles to start with and have every station research add another tile. Voidborn is amazing because it lets you make colonies with 11 Betharion Power Plants. 4 Habitats produce more energy than a full dyson sphere for significantly less cost and build time than just the site and frame of the sphere. Staltran posted:It lasts for a hundred years, that's pretty long, and possibly practically permanent since you're not going to keep playing for a hundred years after getting it. I'm becoming a fan of consecrated worlds. 10% Happiness and Faster growth that, with techs, lasts 150 years for 150 influence.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:34
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Xae posted:4 Habitats produce more energy than a full dyson sphere for significantly less cost and build time than just the site and frame of the sphere. Habitats are just hands down better than basically all of the other mega structures. The only one that's kind of useful is the one that gives you super radar.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:36
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Habitats are just hands down better than basically all of the other mega structures. The only one that's kind of useful is the one that gives you super radar. I managed to get the ruined Cybrex ring in my territory. Did you know that it's made up of 12 different segments that can each have an orbital habitat over them? Screw actually building a ring world myself, I crammed 144 pops in to a single system.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:46
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Xae posted:Voidborn is amazing because it lets you make colonies with 11 Betharion Power Plants. It seems like a bad idea to allow you to build buildings that need strategic resources to operate on habitats and should probably be the first thing they address with re balancing them.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:46
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LordAbaddon posted:It seems like a bad idea to allow you to build buildings that need strategic resources to operate on habitats and should probably be the first thing they address with re balancing them.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:48
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LordAbaddon posted:It seems like a bad idea to allow you to build buildings that need strategic resources to operate on habitats and should probably be the first thing they address with re balancing them. That's not what he means - Habitats can only build special buildings. The Habitat "Solar Power Processor", though, is +10 Energy, the same as a Betharian Power Plant. e;f,b.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:48
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Conskill posted:I donno, like I said down thread, I think "big honking habitats" could be conceived of as even a pre-FTL technology. It's a commitment to a giant engineering project rather than a particularly fantastical one, which is why I think it makes sense as an ascension perk unmoored or at least significantly loosened from raw technology progress. Actually come to think of it, why are defense stations their own tree? Why aren't they bundled into the station upgrade tree?
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Apr 18, 2017 23:00
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canepazzo posted:Looks like in 1.6 you will get a tech to terraform inhabited planets, and colonization will not be possible while a planet is terraforming. One of the best parts of Spore, after going galactic, was terraforming inhabited planets from luscious paradises to molten wastelands. Should be even more fun in Stellaris.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:18
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WHAT WAS WILL BE; WHAT WILL BE, WAS
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Apr 18, 2017 23:19
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I was dicking around trying to make rings available earlier and quicker, and I couldn't make them available early enough to matter. And the thought occurs to me: why not give one or two ascension perks at game start (gate the powerful ones behind having X perks unlocked already)? I'm still interested in making it exclusive choice between space colonisation and terraforming (except the most trivial first stage terraforming). The problem with going all-habitat is that you've currently got no new spaceports until you can build a ring. Maybe make the ring frame quite cheap, and adding each habit section is the expensive part?
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Apr 18, 2017 23:22
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Splicer posted:That's what I was going for. You can build a big honkin' habitat right off the bat (four pops seems to be about 2 billion people), and additional tech lets you go even bigger. Or you could start at 6 and find something else for the last levels of Defense/Space Station trees to add. And why do you need both for a Habitat which has no defenses?
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Apr 18, 2017 23:23
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GotLag posted:I was dicking around trying to make rings available earlier and quicker, and I couldn't make them available early enough to matter. The problem I run into with all Megastructures, other than Habitats, is that by the time I can complete them I've won the game. Needing to hit the rare tech doesn't help with that. It would be more interesting if you could start them mid game and start gaining benefits from them sooner. I think that is why Habitats work. You can get them fairly early and almost immediately start helping you.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:26
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canepazzo posted:Looks like in 1.6 you will get a tech to terraform inhabited planets, and colonization will not be possible while a planet is terraforming. On the one hand, this is excellent and it really should have worked like that in the first place. On the other hand, I just spent forever on my mod implementing mechanics to get around this limitation and now I'm gonna have to redo it 
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Apr 18, 2017 23:26
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You know me, I love space colonies and poo poo but I don't like habs. I think the core design of the game focused around having colonized and colonizable planets rare/special. They mentioned several times they didn't want every planet able to be terrafomed and the game simply wasn't designed to have empires with dozens or hundreds of systems each with 6+ colonized maxed out planets. One, maybe two planets per system, and many systems having none. Habitats aren't quite planets and don't have all the management aspects, but it lets you flood every system with ridiculous numbers of pops, all pumping out energy at a ridiculous rate. It's "balanced" by making it so late game as to be useless, but its a neat concept. It just doesn't seem implemented right and doesn't seem to follow the spirit of the game's core design of rare planets/not carpeting the galaxy with classic 4X "infinite city sprawl"
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Apr 18, 2017 23:28
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Playing this game really makes me miss the weapon diversity in Sword of the Stars. Are there any good + balanced weapon collections out there?
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Apr 19, 2017 00:09
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I tried doing a unity + science rush in the new game I'm playing, since they complement eachother well. I have 4 perks unlocked, and could have 5 if I didn't branch out af because why not, there's still a point every ~3 years. I'm basically done with research, I'm going into the shroud every 5 years, I'm going to start mass producing habitats in 4 more tradition points to fix my "fleet undocked = negative income" issue, my fleet power is equivalent to the biggest empires out there, including the other players, because they're just now getting their cruiser production online and getting their minerals in order after building up all those colonies. At this rate, I'm going to be able to have a ring world segment or three up by year 2320. Coupled with not having to defend large swathes of land (80% of my space is just outposts I can easily rebuild) and bulwark of harmony + having fortresses by like, year 2240, which pulverized any fleet the enemy could possibly bring at that point, defensive wars are a giant cakewalk. This is compared to my previous multiplayer game, where I randomed into a fanatic militarist xenophobe empire, so I went supremacy and prosperity. By the time unbidden spawned I was hilariously behind with research (pretty much only having tech I could salvage from battle debris, and researching poo poo mid-game techs) and only had 2 perks unlocked and constantly had big power issues (but +800 minerals, because hey, 100% xeno slaves on every non-frozen climate planet my warthogs prefered (which were instead covered with power plants)) and early and mid game were a constant struggle for minerals to keep my lovely low tech fleet competitive with the regional fanatical purifier superpower by throwing ever more hulls at the problem. Sure, the game is gonna be pretty much won by 2320 in both cases, but the way to get there was a gigantic pain as an early conqueror. Fun, but not something I'd want to play very often. There really needs to be a way to tell a sector "build these special buildings (just capital + slave processing in my case), and fill the rest of this shithole with 100% mines and *nothing* else". Having to click 50+ times for each planet I just conquered before I can dump it into a sector is a huge slog. I'm glad building tall works so well now. Not having to bother with sectors until the point where what they're doing doesn't matter because the game is more or less won can be a really nice thing. BenRGamer posted:And why do you need both for a Habitat which has no defenses? TBH, the tech is "deep space installations" or whatever, it just happens to also give defence stations, it's the battleships requirement I don't get. 
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Apr 19, 2017 00:29
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Well I just hit a really weird bug. A nearby Xenophobic FE awakened and attacked my weak neighbor. They proceeded to hover their terrifying doomstack over a single planet, never bringing over their armies. This is behavior I've seen in FE's before, lovely AI but it's normal. Bu then, after a few years, the whole fallen empire just... disappeared. It literally blinked out of existence. The pops are still there, sitting on their worlds, but the government has apparently dissolved since the empire doesn't exist and the space is free. I think I'm going to generate maps with no FE's in the future. Right now all they really contribute is swarms of bugs, and not in the cool Starship Troopers sense. I'd feel bad about losing an end-boss opponent but honestly if they're going to just spontaneously combust then it's no loss. GotLag posted:I was dicking around trying to make rings available earlier and quicker, and I couldn't make them available early enough to matter. What changes did you make? I'm spitballing ideas on how to do the same thing in terms of faster megastructures, if possible without a super invasive overhaul. So far coming up empty. I think the main problem is that the huge, prohibitive mineral costs are only available to already-huge empires that don't actually need ringworlds except as space dickwaving, but going too far in the other direction would make them too dominant. Also, you mentioned making space colonization and terraforming mutually exclusive, I've been pursuing the same idea and recently cooked up a smallish mod that does something like that. Also heavily nerfs Mastery of Nature. I'm pretty sure terraforming perks are still the objectively superior choice though.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:28
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Truga posted:TBH, the tech is "deep space installations" or whatever, it just happens to also give defence stations, it's the battleships requirement I don't get. Considering how much habitats cost and the time it takes to construct them, they really should be an earlier unlock, it's not like they give a empire that big of an advantage.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:49
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Back Hack posted:Considering how much habitats cost and the time it takes to construct them, they really should be an earlier unlock, it's not like they give a empire that big of an advantage. Eh. Fully staffed habitats are pretty awesome research/energy generators, to the point where they generally put to shame, in terms of cost/effort to benefit, the actual research and energy production megastructures. The balance on habitats are just all kinds of screwy at the moment and need to be reassessed, both their time to acquire and the benefits they provide. The concept is cool, but the mechanics are a weird mix where I want to complain they're both ineffectual and too powerful at the same time.
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Apr 19, 2017 00:53
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Conskill posted:Eh. Fully staffed habitats are pretty awesome research/energy generators, to the point where they generally put to shame, in terms of cost/effort to benefit, the actual research and energy production megastructures. The main balance problem is that they're a "win more" thing by virtue of being so binary. They come online very late, so they can't be a staple of your strategy, and if you have the mineral output to spam them, then you're already quite powerful. What they were meant to do is let you build tall, what they actually do is let a soaring lategame empire completely trivialize energy production forever. What I've done when modding is split the two really powerful habitat buildings (research and energy) into two tiers, where Voidborne only requires some early game tech, but outputs are much lower and the vanilla ones are only available with higher level tech. Still doesn't feel right, but I'd be surprised if Paradox didn't heavily overhaul habs in the next balance pass.
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Apr 19, 2017 01:05
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Truga posted:TBH, the tech is "deep space installations" or whatever, it just happens to also give defence stations, it's the battleships requirement I don't get. They're not Deep Space Installations, either, you have to build them by a planet. Nothing about the requirements make any sense.
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Apr 19, 2017 01:15
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Could someone give me a short explanation of Governing ethic attraction?
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Apr 19, 2017 01:29
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It adds more pull to the ethics your government has for your pops, so you'll have stronger factions that are aligned to your ethics, and less of those that aren't. More = Good, if you don't want to change your government ethics.
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Apr 19, 2017 01:35
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BenRGamer posted:It adds more pull to the ethics your government has for your pops, so you'll have stronger factions that are aligned to your ethics, and less of those that aren't. So basically it'll yield me more influence over time?
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Apr 19, 2017 01:36
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More happiness more basically everything Unless you're a hive mind in which case gently caress it who cares about those entire mechanics
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Apr 19, 2017 01:37
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First game of Utopia I played I got space habitats with my second ascension perk. Of course, I was gunning for those techs as hard as I could with that civic that gives you an extra research option and a huge focus on engineering research (went well with my robots for multiple reasons). Less then 10 years later energy was a joke, and it remained that way for the rest of the game. Later I played with a mod that lowered the requirements a whole lot, and got space habitats with my first perk. That was kind of silly and mainly balanced by the fact that I was playing a four system empire. Eventually I had to super focus all my planets on minerals to balance my insane energy, and managed to crank out an empire-level output from just a few systems. It was really fun and difficult at times, but if I'd done that and expanded as far as I could it'd be super broken. So on the balance... I think it's fine? They're a big deal, but fairly hard to get and that seems balanced. I would really like an earlier version for RP reasons. It feels good to have people living in orbitals. My proposal for earlier habitats would be to make their buildings less effective at the start, and have them upgrade over time automatically (their build-'em-and-forget nature is a great feature that keeps them from being overwhelming when you spam them everywhere). The other mega structures though... at least they're cool ideas. Requirements should probably be lower since they're honestly not all that useful. Except the science stations. That's not even a cool idea. Why are science stations so lame? At least they could have a cool concept like if they were massive supercomputers that simulated an entire universe or something, or if they were basically dyson spheres you built around black holes for absurd levels of science. As it is they're super 
Eiba fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 01:54
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Science Stations should be able to generate strategic resources. A guaranteed source of dark matter or living metal would make them worthwhile.
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Apr 19, 2017 02:01
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Have they added a way to easily tab through all your spaceports when building several ships yet?
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Apr 19, 2017 02:07
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I feel like megastructures would be better if they had low tier versions. Like instead of a dyson sphere you can just build a big solar array that gives +30 energy or something. Or instead of a full blown ringworld you can just make a solar orbital habitat that can later be upgraded into a ringworld.
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Apr 19, 2017 02:13
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Xae posted:Voidborn is amazing because it lets you make colonies with 11 Betharion Power Plants. I really love building Habitats and then consecrating them. I really wish habitats came earlier so I can stick to my plan of exclusively slave worlds with an aristocratic elite that only live in space right from the get go.
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Apr 19, 2017 02:41
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OwlFancier posted:I feel like megastructures would be better if they had low tier versions. Like instead of a dyson sphere you can just build a big solar array that gives +30 energy or something. Or instead of a full blown ringworld you can just make a solar orbital habitat that can later be upgraded into a ringworld. They already have this, hahah. Just don't let you build to the final stage until you get the tech or perk or whatever!
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Apr 19, 2017 02:59
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So, how do mods interact now and what do you do about conflicts? I kinda wanna try this mod, I think someone in the thread mentioned making it awhile back, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=907841383 But I'm also using Utopia Expanded and I dunno if that'll conflict... I think it will?
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Apr 19, 2017 03:40
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Honestly it looks like they would be compatible. Basically the main issue for mod compatibility is "do they change the same vanilla files?" and in that specific case it doesn't look like they do - Guildencrantz' mod changes some techs and Ascension Perks, Utopia Expanded adds more techs, but mostly changes the vanilla Megastructures.
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Apr 19, 2017 03:59
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