Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Ramc posted:

Realtalk that is some peak HAM.

You don't like scheduling your day around minimizing ghost appearances in an online game? Well then what are you even doing calling yourself a good player??

You could have prevented that death!

# ? Apr 19, 2017 04:08

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# ? May 29, 2024 08:39

Ramc: May 4, 2008; Bringing your thread to a screeching halt, guaranteed.

Prism posted:

You don't like scheduling your day around minimizing ghost appearances in an online game? Well then what are you even doing calling yourself a good player??

You could have prevented that death!

Man I swear these guys. YOU CAN KILL GHOSTS BY WALKING DOWN THE STAIRS YOURSELF YOU IDIOTS

# ? Apr 19, 2017 04:21

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

TBF early game ghosts can be super annoying. They aren't likely to kill you but they are just big walls of HP that you probably can't deal with and have to run everytime they show up, which gets old fast.

Ghosts are interesting in the rest of the game though so I wouldn't want to get rid of them.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 04:24

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

I know 99.9% of people don't actually care about this (like I'm pretty sure most people with 20+ win streaks probably don't care) but the implication that learning how to make queries to the DCSS stats bot can increase your odds of winning is hilarious.

It's exactly the kind of thing that would get scrapped if proposed in modern day crawl, but I guess player ghosts are a relic of sorts.

apple fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Apr 19, 2017

# ? Apr 19, 2017 04:29

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

Ramc posted:

Realtalk that is some peak HAM.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 04:37

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

This is easily solvable by making ghosts pull form the last 100 or so deaths, regardless of whether they've appeared in someone else's game or not

Y'know, if it's actually important to solve

# ? Apr 19, 2017 04:39

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

This had better not make ghosts go away....

# ? Apr 19, 2017 04:43

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

apple posted:

It's exactly the kind of thing that would get scrapped if proposed in modern day crawl, but I guess player ghosts are a relic of sorts.

Actually, the concept of player ghosts has been deemed to hew to close to the chinese tradition of ancestor veneration. Player Ghosts will now be called Was Guys.

Also in accordance with this Heptilakatana-provided Ancestor Spirits will now be called Was Dads.

LogicNinja I couldn't kill your drat ghost with brilliance and 2 full rounds of iron shots and I couldn't be asked to run back to Lair to get my MP ring so I guess you will haunt the halls of Elf 1 for all eternity. Sorry bro.

Vehumet is so good when you get rolling. Right now I have Olgreb's Staff, Ignite Poison, Ignition, and Shatter. So basically no matter how many of you there are now you ALL OF YOU are about to get hosed by something!

Ignition seems underpowered for level 8. Damage in the ideal situation is huge but when there are large numbers of enemies on screen they are usually loosely aggregated and then you are doing about 3/4 the damage of a level 5 fireball. Chain Lightning is way more powerful and efficient in most situations and can also be relied to to take out both close threats and high hp threats. Also, Ignition is Fire only so you have to carry an extra staff if you want to get a multiplier where Firestorm and CL work with a staff of conjurations.

At L7 I would use it for a good while and the fire only school would be very useful. At L8 you might as well just admit you couldn't find firestorm.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 04:52

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

Bring back delayed fireball

# ? Apr 19, 2017 04:57

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

Clearing tomb with ignition sounds amazingly fun but I'm going to die to curses if I try it, aren't I?

beem posted:

ignition[1/1]: Level 8 Fire spell that drops a fireball-like explosion on every hostile monster in LOS (except {firewood} and tentacle segments). The explosions can't hurt the player or allies. Replaces Delayed Fireball in 0.20. Damage per explosion is 3d(3.33+power/9).

# ? Apr 19, 2017 05:24

Konstantin: Jun 20, 2005; And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

Araganzar posted:

Actually, the concept of player ghosts has been deemed to hew to close to the chinese tradition of ancestor veneration. Player Ghosts will now be called Was Guys.

Also in accordance with this Heptilakatana-provided Ancestor Spirits will now be called Was Dads.

In order to attract new players Hep now grants anime waifus instead of Ancestor Spirits.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 05:29

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

Ahahaha LogicNinja say hello to my little friend:

code:

 You closely miss LogicNinja's ghost.
 Your spellforged servitor conjures an orb of pure magic.
 The wavering orb of destruction weakly hits LogicNinja's ghost.
 LogicNinja's ghost is blown up!
_Vehumet accepts your kill.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 05:47

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Araganzar posted:

Clearing tomb with ignition sounds amazingly fun but I'm going to die to curses if I try it, aren't I?

If you can still stairdance you should be ok, just keep iron shot/IOOD for isolated greater mummies and get rN+++ if you have the gear

# ? Apr 19, 2017 05:46

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

LogicNinja posted:

the cursed +0 pair of gloves of Fun {*Corrode rPois rC+ Str+4}

Fun is corrosive to the game, the devs were right! Everything I know is a lie!

# ? Apr 19, 2017 06:19

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

excuse me kind sir won't you loan me a unrandart or two? the kids at school are laughing at my boots and especially my ring of fire. "what, did you get that on D2 or something?" they're so mean...

code:

araganzar the Metallomancer (DrFE)                Turns: 111960, Time: 08:27:24

b - +3 Elemental Staff {rElec rF++ rC++ MR++ AC+
t - +3 warlock's mirror {reflect}
   (armour unavailable)
q - +2 hat of the Bear Spirit {Spirit, +Rage rN+
X - +2 cloak of the Thief {+Fog Slay-2 SInv Stlt
K - +0 pair of fencer's gloves {+Riposte Dex+3}
C - +2 pair of boots "Ackof" {rPois rC++}
W - amulet of Vitality {Regen+ HP+15}
z - ring of the Octopus King {rF+ AC+1 EV+1 Str+
j - ring of fire {rF+, rC-}

# ? Apr 19, 2017 07:10

Goffer: Apr 4, 2007; "..."

cheetah7071 posted:

This is easily solvable by making ghosts pull form the last 100 or so deaths, regardless of whether they've appeared in someone else's game or not

Y'know, if it's actually important to solve

Ghosts should continue to live on in the pool until they are slain, and can spawn dynamically if someone dies on the same level as you as you are playing

# ? Apr 19, 2017 07:32

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

I want ghostcrawl. Every enemy a ghost, ghosts never deleted even if seen or slain (you can't kill what is already dead). Hep the only god you can choose as ghost god! Returning the Orb reveals the biggest secret of all: you were a ghost the whole time. Oooooooooo

:ghost:

World Famous W fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Apr 19, 2017

# ? Apr 19, 2017 07:53

tote up a bags: Jun 8, 2006; die stoats die

Ghosts are big XP pinatas and are cool imo

# ? Apr 19, 2017 08:05

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

ghosts are really annoying when your character can't reasonably kill them and the way they are statted out is... strange. they don't really accurately model the amount of damage said character had at time of death at all, for one thing.

if ghosts were revamped(including a removal of Dr ghost breath ffs) I would likely have less of a problem with them but as it stands I think they are either annoying or trivial and Not Great to have in the game

# ? Apr 19, 2017 08:24

a star war betamax: Sep 17, 2011; by Lowtax; Gary’s Answer

I personally think ghosts should be a little rarer, especially early level ghosts. But make them even more dangerous. Maybe give them blink and invisibility and other ghostly abilities. Let then ghost through walls.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 08:50

Decrepus: May 21, 2008; In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.

Trunko posted:

I personally think ghosts should be a little rarer, especially early level ghosts. But make them even more dangerous. Maybe give them blink and invisibility and other ghostly abilities. Let then ghost through walls.

You can't just give them every Bomber Man ability.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 11:50

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

IronicDongz posted:

(including a removal of Dr ghost breath ffs)

This is in trunk

# ? Apr 19, 2017 12:04

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

thank gorbness

# ? Apr 19, 2017 12:06

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Nevermind

# ? Apr 19, 2017 14:11

Lawdog69: Nov 2, 2010

Holy moly, don't try to do slime without rCorrode. Just lost the manliest MiFi ever (cleared hells, lair runes and abyss with 0 problems) because I got instantly corroded to -40 after moving off some stairs and was eaten by some dumb jellies

# ? Apr 19, 2017 14:55

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

Melee only ghosts are usually boring because you can and should walk away every time and they're just annoyances, caster ghosts are neat because they're effectively scaling uniques with semi-random spell sets that can appear anywhere. Caster ghosts past d7ish are good, melee ghosts in late-extended are sometimes interesting, early-mid game melee ghosts are boring. If the area limit for ghost spawning was pushed down further to at least d6 I think that would cull a lot of the most boring ghosts. Ghosts of xl4 characters aren't interesting. e: Alternatively, a hard requirement that only players at level 15~ or higher turn into ghosts. Weaker characters don't have enough regrets or moxie needed to become a ghost.

Also ghost bones should only be removed when you actually kill them, the silly extra rules are dumb. Evidence: that loving shaftbot

IronicDongz posted:

ghosts are really annoying when your character can't reasonably kill them and the way they are statted out is... strange. they don't really accurately model the amount of damage said character had at time of death at all, for one thing.

if ghosts were revamped(including a removal of Dr ghost breath ffs) I would likely have less of a problem with them but as it stands I think they are either annoying or trivial and Not Great to have in the game

The way ghosts inherit player stats is interesting because player stats tend to be a lot bigger. Unfortunately this means you encounter ghosts with 200+ health and 50~ AC/EV who are nigh-immortal assholes that make you long for dispel undead, but they're certainly unique problems.

Darox fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Apr 19, 2017

# ? Apr 19, 2017 14:56

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

Lawdog69 posted:

Holy moly, don't try to do slime without rCorrode. Just lost the manliest MiFi ever (cleared hells, lair runes and abyss with 0 problems) because I got instantly corroded to -40 after moving off some stairs and was eaten by some dumb jellies .

You know, a lot of people where vocal about their support of removing 'gotchas' in crawl, but I honestly think we can all band together and say you brought that on yourself. Next up: don't go into literal fantasy volcanoes without heat resistance, and Cocytus has an icy lake, yo.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 15:18

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

tote up a bags posted:

Ghosts are big XP pinatas and are cool imo

Yeah this

# ? Apr 19, 2017 16:16

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

Serephina posted:

You know, a lot of people where vocal about their support of removing 'gotchas' in crawl, but I honestly think we can all band together and say you brought that on yourself. Next up: don't go into literal fantasy volcanoes without heat resistance, and Cocytus has an icy lake, yo.

Is it communicated anywhere the walls in slime do damage and corrode? A first time player/new player isn't necessarily going to connect slime and corrosion in their minds so the first time they realize they need Rcorrode for slime is the above scenario, which is a gotcha.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 16:47

fool of sound: Oct 10, 2012

Most of the slime entrance vaults have corrosive walls, and right clicking them tells you that they are covered in acidic slime.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 16:51

Cerepol: Dec 2, 2011

A huge problem with ghosts is they are basically free XP on certain powerful from the start combos (MiFi, DEFE with conjure flame and time) and just annoying moving exclusion zones on anything else.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 17:01

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

Carcer posted:

Is it communicated anywhere the walls in slime do damage and corrode? A first time player/new player isn't necessarily going to connect slime and corrosion in their minds so the first time they realize they need Rcorrode for slime is the above scenario, which is a gotcha.

As mentioned, most entrance vaults have corrosive walls, and it's a branch explicitly labeled after the prototypical corrosive enemy, usually with a few of them hanging around to remind you of it.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 17:18

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Corrosion is a big problem if you're relying on weapon damage and AC to keep you alive. If you're going to venture into the Slime Pits without rAcid, you will want more defenses in EV and SH, so that they fruther negate the chances of rolling for corrosion via dodging and blocking the attack entirely. None of the enemies there (barring disintegration beam from the occasional eye of devastation) make a lot of noise so you can use this to draw what's visible to you away from unknown territory and destroy them without worry of pulling more than you can handle. The only occasion that you can't do this is when you're taking stairs.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 17:19

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

This argument is becoming pointless under the weight of evidence, but the prototypical "slime" creature, slimes, are not acidic. Jellies are, but I can't say I've always run into one before I reached the slime entrance.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 18:03

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

Carcer posted:

Is it communicated anywhere the walls in slime do damage and corrode? A first time player/new player isn't necessarily going to connect slime and corrosion in their minds so the first time they realize they need Rcorrode for slime is the above scenario, which is a gotcha.

Presumably if you are playing the game unspoiled, the first thing you would do when encountering a branch portal is I don't know, LOOK AT THE PORTAL?

A staircase leading to the Slime Pits.

The Slime Pits are the amorphous realm of acids, jellies and slimes. Even the walls drip with painful acid. Any trace of intelligent beings has long been dissolved. Still, there are rumours of great treasures deep down, hidden safely away in secret chambers without any entrance.

Second sentence. First sentence mentions the jellies you're concerned about not having had the opportunity to encounter.

This information an also be found in game anywhere you are - hit ?, look up the slime branch, and you get the same description.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 18:13

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

While we are on the subject of things that are broken how about the draining brand on monsters?

I just had like every dancing weapon in Elf be draining, then I run into a blademaster elf with TWO RAPIERS OF DRAINING and they get 4 swings a round:

code:

he deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining!
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining!
_You feel drained.
 You see here a long sword of holy wrath.
 You take 41 damage, and have 163/204 hp.
 MASSIVE DAMAGE!!
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining.
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining.
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining!
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you but does no damage.
_You feel drained.
 You take 26 damage, and have 137/204 hp.
 You fade into invisibility!
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining!
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you but does no damage.
_You feel drained.
 You take 6 damage, and have 131/204 hp. You now have 26/28 mp.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining!
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining!
_You feel drained.
_You take 23 damage, and have 109/204 hp.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining.
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you but does no damage.
_You feel drained.
 You take 3 damage, and have 107/204 hp.
 You open the deep elf blademaster like a pillowcase!!!
 Your headbutt misses the deep elf blademaster.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you but does no damage.
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you but does no damage.
_You feel drained.
 You hit the deep elf blademaster.
 Your headbutt misses the deep elf blademaster.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you but does no damage.
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining!
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you but does no damage.
 You feel drained.
_The deep elf blademaster barely misses you.
 You take 9 damage, and have 100/204 hp.
 You catch the helpless deep elf blademaster completely off-guard!
 You slice the deep elf blademaster!!
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining!
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining!!
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining.
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you but does no damage.
_You feel drained.
 You take 45 damage, and have 55/204 hp.
 MASSIVE DAMAGE!!
 MP restored: 28
 You fail to use your ability.
 The deep elf blademaster barely misses you.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining.
 You feel drained.
 You take 3 damage, and have 52/204 hp.
 You feel much better.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you with a rapier of draining!
 You feel drained.
 The deep elf blademaster hits you but does no damage.
_You feel drained.

Here is what my stats look like now, on a XL22 Minotaur:

code:

    Skill           Level Cost   Apt       Skill           Level Cost   Apt
  a - Fighting         6.0  21.2   +2    g - Spellcasting     0.0  10.0   -4
  b - Axes             9.8  33.9   +2    h + Charms           0.0   6.0   -4
      Maces & Flails   4.6   3.5   +2    i - Summonings       0.0   5.0   -3
      Polearms         4.2   0.7   +2    j - Necromancy       0.0  11.8   -3
      Staves           0.0   0.7   +2    k - Translocations   0.0   1.7   -3
  c - Unarmed Combat   0.0   0.8   +1    l + Air Magic        0.0   5.0   -3

  d - Throwing         1.5  17.0    0    m - Invocations      0.0   8.0    0
      Slings           0.0   0.8   +1    n - Evocations       0.0  15.5   -1
                                         o - Stealth          0.0   2.4   -1
  e + Armour           6.0  23.3   +2
  f - Dodging          4.6  22.7   +1

That's every over 13 points of draining on every skill. Before I could kill him with invis, heroism, and finesse. Shouldn't this cap somewhere? Jesus Christ!

Update, death mage drained me a few more times, finally tported on Elf 3 as he was vamp draining me faster than I could do damage. At over 14 points of skill drain now.

edit: I DIED THAT WAS TOTAL loving BULLSHIT

Araganzar fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Apr 19, 2017

# ? Apr 19, 2017 19:18

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

How much rNeg did you have? Getting drained to gently caress and back is a nightmare but I expect it with certain enemies and if I dip into dark red it's a sign to retreat and try and find a way to get that experience back before re-entering.

But yeah, losing ~13 points in every category is lovely. If there a max corrosion?

# ? Apr 19, 2017 19:30

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

That's more on you for trying to take a blademaster with two highly accurate, fast weapons of draining without sufficient rN. Did you know that rN+++ makes you immune? And a pip can be gained temporarily from potion of resistance, so with two other equipment sources (rings being natural!) you're basically set for an encounter like this.

^ Nope you can get continually corroded if you just keep refreshing it. The base chance of it applying slowly decreases the more you get corroded however.

Sage Grimm fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Apr 19, 2017

# ? Apr 19, 2017 19:34

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

Sage Grimm posted:

That's more on you for trying to take a blademaster with two highly accurate, fast weapons of draining without sufficient rN.

They are speed 15, you can't port on an uncleared Elf 3 without an even greater chance of death, and it's not like there was a big sign on the door saying "DE Blademaster with Two Draining Weapons".

# ? Apr 19, 2017 20:01

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# ? May 29, 2024 08:39

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

Araganzar posted:

They are speed 15, you can't port on an uncleared Elf 3 without an even greater chance of death, and it's not like there was a big sign on the door saying "DE Blademaster with Two Draining Weapons".

Elf 3 is optional and I assume you had a tele to burn if you were in there.

# ? Apr 19, 2017 20:08

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