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8-Bit Scholar posted:Hacking is fun. Even with all the chip upgrades, I never felt it was very powerful. Get that one small sword to lv 4, stack crit chips, and bask in your prowess (on normal anyways.) Auto heal/offensive heal is real nice too.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:59
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Nina posted:One argument I keep hearing a lot and I have to kinda agree with is that it's kinda lame both of the cool heroines die for his sake when he's the local genocide lad This isn't really true. Everyone in the game kills a lot of sentient beings. 2B kills both machines AND androids. A2 even has a scene at the end where the machines are begging for their brother's life and she cuts them all down without a hint of mercy or care. It's simply more apparent with 9S because the whole situation is just starting to affect him. His emotions are running hog wild. He has this characters arc of not caring about machines, then realizing that mentions are sentient and have emotions, then forcing himself not to believe that because it would be too painful to do so. 9S drives all of the most emotional scenes in the game and it would have been a much worse experience without him. The hate-boner some people seem to have for him really confuses me.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:03
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RoadCrewWorker posted:You should play SOMA and see if you're smarter than its protagonist Remember how in SOMA a big twist happens midway through the game when the protagonist switches bodies and he's shocked at the implications, and then at the end the EXACT SAME THING happens and he's somehow even MORE shocked at the thing he already experienced, and the game treats it like a massive twist? SOMA tried very hard but the plot was bad and I'm glad Automata handled really similar concepts better.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:05
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Somas protagonist is kinda willfully dense when it comes to wrapping his head around what that abstract concept means to him subjectively, though even players with far less intensely distracting circumstances probably need that point hammered home - and the game calls him out for it too. Turns out continuity of subjective consciousness is kind of an unintuitive concept. Soma owns.Kaboom Dragoon posted:Now that's just hurtful. RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 18:05
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Zinkraptor posted:Remember how in SOMA a big twist happens midway through the game when the protagonist switches bodies and he's shocked at the implications, and then at the end the EXACT SAME THING happens and he's somehow even MORE shocked at the thing he already experienced, and the game treats it like a massive twist? The game doesn't treat it as a massive twist. It's only shocking to the main character, whose companion flat-out calls him stupid for not realizing it the second time around. While not perfect, Soma had a pretty great plot from what I could tell.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:06
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KamikazePotato posted:This isn't really true. Everyone in the game kills a lot of sentient beings. 2B kills both machines AND androids. A2 even has a scene at the end where the machines are begging for their brother's life and she cuts them all down without a hint of mercy or care. It's simply more apparent with 9S because the whole situation is just starting to affect him. His emotions are running hog wild. He has this characters arc of not caring about machines, then realizing that mentions are sentient and have emotions, then forcing himself not to believe that because it would be too painful to do so. The thing that puts me off is it's a stark contrast to the first Nier While the final ending of Nier is the titular guy coming to the realization that his monomania over this single person is destructive and his friends deserve to live more than he does for 9S he's sharing a very similar motivation but in the end he just kinda gets to roll with it. The game doesn't really make a good job of making 9S all that sympathetic other than making him the chew toy of the universe but because his reactions to a lot of stuff are hostile to begin with he doesn't really feel like the undeserving victim other than in extreme hindsight.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:12
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KamikazePotato posted:The game doesn't treat it as a massive twist. It's only shocking to the main character, whose companion flat-out calls him stupid for not realizing it the second time around. While not perfect, Soma had a pretty great plot from what I could tell. I was being a bit harsh - I did enjoy the game. It had a lot of good pieces but it didn't feel like they all fit together too well. I still liked automata's take on the concepts better, though.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:18
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Zinkraptor posted:and I'm glad Automata handled really similar concepts better. RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 18:20
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9s talk Honestly, 2B has the exact same reaction to 9S's "death" at the end of Route A and B as 9S has to hers at the beginning of route C. The difference is that 2B's fury is immediately mitigated by the fact that 9S is Not Actually Dead, and even then, 9S wasn't going to be dead-dead, only kind of dead. She was still going to get a new and sparkly Nines with almost the same memories. 9S flips his poo poo when 2B dies, just like 2B does when 9S dies. He just doesn't get the stabilising effect of her not actually being dead. She's Super Dead right after everyone else he knows at the bunker dies. 2B's death is the culmination of Nines' Worst Day Ever and takes Nines' already fragile mental state and shatters it.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:20
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Nina posted:The thing that puts me off is it's a stark contrast to the first Nier While the final ending of Nier is the titular guy coming to the realization that his monomania over this single person is destructive and his friends deserve to live more than he does for 9S he's sharing a very similar motivation but in the end he just kinda gets to roll with it. I feel like it works because 9S has much less control over the circumstances than Nier did. His monomania didn't cause 2B to die, or the machines to start consolidating into the tower. He gets to where Nier was, but doesn't get a choice, the person he cares about most just dies, along with like 90% of everyone he knows. There's absolutely nothing he can do about it. YoRHa was built to be destroyed from the start, there was no chance for any of them. In what is he not an undeserving victim?
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Apr 19, 2017 18:21
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Really all this game needs is D3 style prequel chapters to flesh out the characters a bit more.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:23
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Pretty sure it's in the settings somewhere but there is no fix for this broken inverted brain Can someone tell me the correct button sequence to get to the inverted camera option on the ps4 version please. And please don't trick me into changing languages or nothing please.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:23
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Nina posted:Really all this game needs is D3 style prequel chapters to flesh out the characters a bit more. I definitely would've liked more time with A2. She should've gotten her own pre-Eve-fight route.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:25
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Nina posted:The thing that puts me off is it's a stark contrast to the first Nier While the final ending of Nier is the titular guy coming to the realization that his monomania over this single person is destructive and his friends deserve to live more than he does for 9S he's sharing a very similar motivation but in the end he just kinda gets to roll with it. I thought 9S was sympathetic from the get-go simply because the first thing he does is make a direct choice to sacrifice himself for 2B. And then he does it again at the end of Route A/B! He cares deeply for his friends, even if he goes the opposite way towards his enemies. Dad Nier is the exact same way actually - the first thing of note he does in the game is slaughter a bunch of shades that aren't attacking him. 9S doesn't anything worse than any of the main characters in either Nier game. I don't agree that he gets to roll with his decisions either. He's a broken shell by the end of the game and nothing gets better for him. No one calls him out on it because there's no one in the game that can. What's A2 going to do - tell him to stop murdering machines when she just did 5 seconds ago? I don't know. I've always gotten the impression that people would be less down on 9S if he had a similar character design to 2B/A2.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:26
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Begemot posted:I definitely would've liked more time with A2. She should've gotten her own pre-Eve-fight route. Or just adapt the stage play as a playable scenario.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:28
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Begemot posted:I definitely would've liked more time with A2. She should've gotten her own pre-Eve-fight route. Seriously. The player should have killed the forest king.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:36
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Nina posted:Or just adapt the stage play as a playable scenario.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:37
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9S Spoilercast I already thought 9S was pretty strong as a character, but the post-save-deletion playthrough I've been doing to go through everything has made that even more so. 9S is established as being lonely and desperate for companionship in his ending, to the point where, even though he kinda knows 2B keeps murdering him, he's still very attached to her and excited about being able to work alongside her. He tries to reach out and be friendly with his deadpan Operator, but doesn't realize that 21O was feeling the exact same way he was until she's already outfitted as a B model and infected by the logic virus in their fight. The only two people he felt he could reach out to for companionship created such weird, complicated signals, but at least it was something. He's been saying the whole game "machines can't feel, nothing they do is reasonable" because that's what he's been taught. The foundation of his existence is that he's fighting a war against unfeeling tin cans for the sake of his creators, and then he meets more and more machines who act peaceful or long for each other or have crippling existential crises that lead to suicide, and finally learns that the people he's been fighting for don't even exist, and never will again. That's two out of three (or four, counting 21O) things that got him by in his life shattered, and he's still programmed to protect humans, even though he knows that he's longing for something that's long gone. Then 2B dies for good, and he really has nothing. So he falls back on his previous purpose, murdering machines, and makes up a new purpose (A2 killed 2B) so he has some kind of meaning in his life. That's the whole theme of the game, finding some kind of meaning in something that is inherently meaningless. He's not thinking rationally, he's shutting down, he's being obstinate, he's doing his best to ignore reality because every time he does it's another little crack. Kyle McCarley did a fantastic job with those points, in the Meat Box, Soul Box, and when playing the last part as 9S; when he screams and yells "shut up" over and over he's not being animu crazy, he's desperate and horrified. I never really thought it was played up. I'm probably not making points that haven't been made already, but eh.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:47
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Squidtentacle posted:9S Spoilercast I already thought 9S was pretty strong as a character, but the post-save-deletion playthrough I've been doing to go through everything has made that even more so. 9S is established as being lonely and desperate for companionship in his ending, to the point where, even though he kinda knows 2B keeps murdering him, he's still very attached to her and excited about being able to work alongside her. He tries to reach out and be friendly with his deadpan Operator, but doesn't realize that 21O was feeling the exact same way he was until she's already outfitted as a B model and infected by the logic virus in their fight. The only two people he felt he could reach out to for companionship created such weird, complicated signals, but at least it was something. This explains my thoughts better than I could.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:51
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Hahaha it recorded me fumbling through the glitched out menu during the tutorialsmall hendren posted:Can someone tell me the correct button sequence to get to the inverted camera option on the ps4 version please. And please don't trick me into changing languages or nothing please. settings is the third option on the far right tab, camera is the third option in settings, in camera the first option is horizontal orientation with the first option on that being normal and the second being inverted, the second option in camera is vertical orientation which is set up the same way as horizontal.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:57
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tweet my meat posted:Hahaha it recorded me fumbling through the glitched out menu during the tutorial Cool thanks I'll give that a shot later 
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Apr 19, 2017 19:02
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Exercu posted:9s talk Honestly, 2B has the exact same reaction to 9S's "death" at the end of Route A and B as 9S has to hers at the beginning of route C. The difference is that 2B's fury is immediately mitigated by the fact that 9S is Not Actually Dead, and even then, 9S wasn't going to be dead-dead, only kind of dead. She was still going to get a new and sparkly Nines with almost the same memories. 9S flips his poo poo when 2B dies, just like 2B does when 9S dies. He just doesn't get the stabilising effect of her not actually being dead. She's Super Dead right after everyone else he knows at the bunker dies. 2B's death is the culmination of Nines' Worst Day Ever and takes Nines' already fragile mental state and shatters it. I mean, he literally has the ground pulled out from under him and falls into a giant, dark hole, screaming his lungs out. I'm not sure how much more explicit you can make the visual metaphor without just braining the player with a lead pipe.
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Apr 19, 2017 20:50
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An iron pipe, actually.
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Apr 19, 2017 20:58
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Close to giving up on the recon quest. After going everywhere and fighting everything I found--the golden rabbit, the godzilla expy in the forest, both secret bosses--I'm still sitting at 92% unit data. Is there anything locked behind finishing it that I couldn't get elsewhere? Otherwise I'm gonna call it quits. The enhanced reverse-joint goliath probably isn't worth 3% all by itself, and that's the only thing I know for sure I haven't fought before. There are a couple enemies I'm sure I killed that are listed as enhanced units online but didn't seem to count so I don't know what the gently caress.
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Apr 19, 2017 23:10
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KamikazePotato posted:The game doesn't treat it as a massive twist. It's only shocking to the main character, whose companion flat-out calls him stupid for not realizing it the second time around. While not perfect, Soma had a pretty great plot from what I could tell. I think a lot of people had trouble working with the protagonist in SOMA being his own character, who by necessity had to be more emotionally invested in and less observant about his situation than the player. It was definitely an unusual decision and I'm still not sure how well it worked, because I (and probably most people) spent, like, most of the game wanting to call him an idiot. If anything the first-person perspective worked against it there since you have to do extra work to think about him as a character rather than a player stand-in. I think I'm in the camp that says Automata's handling of these themes was superior because I'm always going to prefer a subtler approach that's willing to trust its audience a little, but SOMA's at least like 20% smarter than it looks at first glance. edit re: recon quest: none of its rewards are unique, I personally wouldn't bother tracking down missing variants for it unless numbers are the most important thing in your life and seeing a 100% on sidequests completed will bring you more joy than, like, an entire bottle of scotch and a really great slice of chocolate cake. Irony.or.Death fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 23:13
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WTF is SOMA?
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Apr 19, 2017 23:29
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Irony.or.Death posted:I think a lot of people had trouble working with the protagonist in SOMA being his own character, who by necessity had to be more emotionally invested in and less observant about his situation than the player. It was definitely an unusual decision and I'm still not sure how well it worked, because I (and probably most people) spent, like, most of the game wanting to call him an idiot. If anything the first-person perspective worked against it there since you have to do extra work to think about him as a character rather than a player stand-in. The setting of SOMA was interesting, but every moment of "oh poo poo, I wonder what happened to the world" was compromised by the idiot ball chained to your neck in the form of the player character, and that's coming from someone who didn't actually finish the game. If it was irritating to me in the first hour or two and it was a thing for the entire playthrough, I think I might drop it from my "I'll get around to it" backlog and go find an LP because jesus christ. I get that there's a difference between being in-character and the dispassionate outside observer standpoint, but a game that came out in 2015 trying to force a "oh god what's going on" player character after 20+ years of media involving this exact sort of question is exactly as irritating as having a FPS involving a character who's never seen/used a gun before, finds one, and then yells "oh god what was that" for the rest of the game every time they or someone else fires a bullet.
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Apr 19, 2017 23:30
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RanKizama posted:WTF is SOMA? Amnesia-like gameplay coupled with "what makes a human" esque postulating story about robots with human memories. It's pretty good!
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Apr 19, 2017 23:32
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RoadCrewWorker posted:You should play SOMA and see if you're smarter than its protagonist Is Soma good? I keep meaning to check it out
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Apr 19, 2017 23:36
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Is Soma good? I keep meaning to check it out SOMA is a good story packed into a really mediocre game. I think Frictional fell victim to what I'm going to call It's Not A Walking Sim-itis, where they wanted it to avoid being labeled interactive fiction for marketing purposes, so they gave it the standard Frictional treatment where there's scary monsters and logic puzzles you have to solve to progress, both of which feel (with a single exception) incredibly at odds with the core themes of the story. If it's on sale, I'd buy it.
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Apr 19, 2017 23:52
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I fought some big golden robots today. They don't seem to hit much harder than the regular ones but they have a mountain of HP. I whacked away at one for 5 mins and barely scratched it before I got bored and left.
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Apr 20, 2017 00:05
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Those are mostly for route B.
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Apr 20, 2017 00:12
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Started playthrough two. You're not even halfway through the game they said. You get to play through the same game you played through already again with a worse moveset, (a few) more cutscenes, and more minigames! Though I'm sure it'll branch off once 9S and 2B get seperated after the big ocean battle and the hacking is actually pretty drat neat when you take control of a huge fuckoff enemy. It's also mercifully quick retreading the stuff you've already seen since you start with your full chipset and they place minibosses that drop about 100k worth of stuff around the map to upgrade even further.
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Apr 20, 2017 00:18
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There's a loving shortcut between the two halves of the factory and I've only just discovered this NOW!? so many wasted hours...
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Apr 20, 2017 00:19
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Squidtentacle posted:9S Spoilercast I already thought 9S was pretty strong as a character, but the post-save-deletion playthrough I've been doing to go through everything has made that even more so. 9S is established as being lonely and desperate for companionship in his ending, to the point where, even though he kinda knows 2B keeps murdering him, he's still very attached to her and excited about being able to work alongside her. He tries to reach out and be friendly with his deadpan Operator, but doesn't realize that 21O was feeling the exact same way he was until she's already outfitted as a B model and infected by the logic virus in their fight. The only two people he felt he could reach out to for companionship created such weird, complicated signals, but at least it was something. I also found it interesting how He keeps killing more of 2B in his pursuit of vengeance for her. First the program that took the shape of her in his memories, then the clones, and finally A2, who'd literally taken up her sword, and who was clearly becoming a lot more like 2B from the inherited memories. (Somebody going from "I will stab all machine babies!" to "Fine, Pascal. I'll build the kids a slide." is not a natural progression in that timeframe, you know?) Where she found killing him harder and harder, he finds it easier and easier. On a related note, it's interesting how ending E can, if I understand correctly, spin out of both ending C and ending D, since they both leave the leads in about the same physical position, while leaving their emotional states, and the state of the machines, quite different. A2 can either be snatched back from shame and failure and regret, or brought back after finally finding the death that she was searching for. I mean, her realizing how beautiful the world is leans towards her not entirely minding, but it's still going to leave her in a very different place. Nines could have seen snatches of the machines offering him a paradise in the stars, or not. The machines could be out there somewhere in the heavens, or paid in full for their sins on Earth (while the last of YoRHa is spared, despite all their own crimes. The gods are not just. Whatever would become of us if they were?) And even aside from the two endings, Pascal can be alive, dead, or amnesic, 2E's the only constant there, finally dying to save the man she loved rather than having to kill him, and awake in a world where everything that kept them apart is gone. ...Which, in an interesting reversal, would leave him the one feeling desperately unworthy. She won't feel good, but she finally did things right, while Nines didn't. As I said. Interesting.
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Apr 20, 2017 00:21
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8-Bit Scholar posted:There's a loving shortcut between the two halves of the factory and I've only just discovered this NOW!? How do you get to it? I can tell where it is but not how to get there. Also is there only one save point in the factory?
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Apr 20, 2017 00:34
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Look Sir Droids posted:How do you get to it? I can tell where it is but not how to get there. Also is there only one save point in the factory? There's a 2nd one but you don't unlock it until you go back there for story reasons.
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Apr 20, 2017 00:35
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Saagonsa posted:There's a 2nd one but you don't unlock it until you go back there for story reasons.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:47
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Look Sir Droids posted:How do you get to it? I can tell where it is but not how to get there. As a dude who didn't find it until route C, I'll be kind: when you're near one of the two overhead battle arenas (the one without shipping containers), go under the overhang to your right. Continue onwards. I was goddamn dumb about this game, y'all.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:53
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END ME SCOOB posted:As a dude who didn't find it until route C, I'll be kind: when you're near one of the two overhead battle arenas (the one without shipping containers), go under the overhang to your right. Continue onwards. Thank you, my brother. 
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Apr 20, 2017 01:55
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