|
massed crossbows + horse archers would rekt heavy infantry fite me irl
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 12:24 |
|
|
Phobophilia posted:massed crossbows + horse archers would rekt heavy infantry fite me irl horse archers are like cheating on flat ground but useless elsewhere which is a fact that shaped a lot of ancient borders
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
For how long had aristocrats usually served in the military before getting promoted to an officer's rank in a legion (ie. higher than a Centurio)? Were they just green politicians? Could equites rise to a Legate's rank? Did senatorial rank Romans only serve as Legates?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
Hogge Wild posted:For how long had aristocrats usually served in the military before getting promoted to an officer's rank in a legion (ie. higher than a Centurio)? Were they just green politicians? Could equites rise to a Legate's rank? Did senatorial rank Romans only serve as Legates? if you were on the cursus honorum or its informal precursor you started as a staff officer, either directly under a legate as a tribune or below the tribunes, or else were in the cavalry. staff officers act as cavalry sometimes too. they were green while young of course and some senatorial romans slacked on their military discipline, but as a rule the path to real power and acclaim as a politician was in the military, not the forum, so they generally took it seriously enough if they were ambitious. legate was a political rank so generally barred to equites, but class barriers were never a hard and fast thing in rome this is all in the republic though, the link between class and military service was increasingly irrelevant throughout the empire Jazerus fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Apr 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 01:04
|
|
|
I tried that very recently actually, it tasted like a standard white wine apart from the additional taste of resin, at least to my limited Pontius Pilate posted:There are some secluded areas in Europe that avoided the phylloxera blight and so still have native vines. Again, not exact, but the bottle I had was different though not cheap. That's very interesting, it would be fun one of those once. I'm guessing they were drunk neat and not with water though right? One thing that makes me wonder, and I guess we don't really know exactly, is why they considered it necessary to dilute their wine. Modern wines aren't very nice diluted with water, so they ought to be pretty different from ancient wines. I attended an informal lecture on ancient wines, and that aspect of it was touched upon but apparently we can only speculate why. Maybe their wine was much stronger than ours? But then how did they achieve that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 10:27
|
|
|
Grevling posted:I tried that very recently actually, it tasted like a standard white wine apart from the additional taste of resin, at least to my limited Wine can't be stronger than 15%, because the yeast, which transforms the sugars into alcohol dies off at that percentage and the whole process stops. Distillation is the way to produce anything above that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 11:59
|
|
|
The wine thing is a constant bone of contention because we don't know. The main theories I see advanced: A) We don't actually know when distillation was invented and they were making fortified wines or some kind of liquor and didn't have a distinct word. B) They had some different, now extinct/unknown, type of yeast that could survive higher alcohol levels. C) There was an expectation to be able to drink all night, but being poo poo ripped was uncouth, barbaric behavior so they watered it down to last longer (I suspect this is the most likely) D) There were other drugs added to the wine--opium is one possibility that they had access to.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 12:09
|
|
|
Grevling posted:I attended an informal lecture on ancient wines, and that aspect of it was touched upon but apparently we can only speculate why. Maybe their wine was much stronger than ours? But then how did they achieve that? What, a symposium?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 13:13
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:The wine thing is a constant bone of contention because we don't know. The main theories I see advanced: E) They were cheapskates. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 13:29
|
|
|
Hamlet442 posted:Back to food. The idea of making some Roman foods sounds pretty interesting. Does anybody have any cookbooks that are authentic? Some quick Googling is giving me lots of Italian recipes or only delicacies like dormice and bird tongues. The reason we have recipes for dormice and bird tongues and not "regular" stuff is because they're delicacies/complicated to make. You wouldn't write down a sandwich recipe, would you? I assume you just know that you put some meat, cheese, lettuce, etc between bread. There's no reason to write it down because basically everyone in the world knows how to make a sandwich or something like it. I realize that there's probably a recipe for everything, even sandwiches, on the internet now, but I think the example still gets the point across.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 13:45
|
|
|
Jamwad Hilder posted:The reason we have recipes for dormice and bird tongues and not "regular" stuff is because they're delicacies/complicated to make. You wouldn't write down a sandwich recipe, would you? I assume you just know that you put some meat, cheese, lettuce, etc between bread. There's no reason to write it down because basically everyone in the world knows how to make a sandwich or something like it. I realize that there's probably a recipe for everything, even sandwiches, on the internet now, but I think the example still gets the point across. My favourite implication of the assumption that these were common dishes is the gigantic heaps of discarded, tongueless larks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 13:51
|
|
|
how many birds do you have to kill to get enough tongues for a meal, anyway
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 13:57
|
|
|
Lots. They sell bags of duck tongues here in China though so if you're killing the birds anyway I guess it's not a big deal?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 14:01
|
|
|
It probably started out as an efficient "don't waste any edible part of the bird" thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 14:14
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:C) There was an expectation to be able to drink all night, but being poo poo ripped was uncouth, barbaric behavior so they watered it down to last longer (I suspect this is the most likely) Yeah, most likely this one. Pliny the Elder mentions that the best loved type of wine was new wine (from the first pressing and likely not fermented too much yet) since you could enjoy more of it without getting totally wasted. There was also the ancient role of the arbiter bibendi whose job it was to dilute the wine correctly at parties, with the goal being to make sure Suetonius over there has a good time without getting too drunk, puking all over everyone and passing out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 15:00
|
|
|
Jamwad Hilder posted:The reason we have recipes for dormice and bird tongues and not "regular" stuff is because they're delicacies/complicated to make. You wouldn't write down a sandwich recipe, would you? I assume you just know that you put some meat, cheese, lettuce, etc between bread. There's no reason to write it down because basically everyone in the world knows how to make a sandwich or something like it. I realize that there's probably a recipe for everything, even sandwiches, on the internet now, but I think the example still gets the point across. This is kind of a problem with a lot of pre-printing-press stuff isn't it? When paper is valuable you don't write common knowledge down, and obviously no one is chiseling sandwich recipes into stone or anything. So for example we have techniques for fancy dueling techniques but can mostly only guess at what two blocks of men-at-arms would fight like.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 15:28
|
|
|
JaucheCharly posted:Wine can't be stronger than 15%, because the yeast, which transforms the sugars into alcohol dies off at that percentage and the whole process stops. Distillation is the way to produce anything above that. Depending on the yeast variety and nutrient levels, you can get a lot stronger than that. Traditional sake is fermented to about 20%, then diluted down. Modern hobby brewers, using specialist yeast strains, have got into the high 20s (though apparently these brews tend to have a lot of fusel oils and would give you a splitting headache to drink in quantity). Falernian wine could be burned, according to Pliny, which suggests it at least sometimes got to over 20% alcohol. One thing to bear in mind is that if your using the same unwashed amphora to brew wine again and again, your going to get some very divergent colonies between producers, and even between fermenting vessels, some of which could have particular adaptations to higher alcohol production. You might also develop symbiotic bacteria, as are used in rice wine and kombucha brewing, further complicating matters.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 17:11
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:There was some belief that tomatoes were poisonous because of their similarity to deadly nightshade, but iirc it wasn't a general or widespread belief. Uh no, they were believed to be poisonous because they are nightshade-plants. Nightshades got their name because they bloom during the night. It's just that the tomatoe plant is an odd nightshade where you can eat the fruit without trouble. (At this point I could suggest trying to eat leaves and flowers from a tomatoe plant as a proof, but I'm not. Please don't, just look nightshades up on wikipedia instead.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 17:37
|
|
|
Perhaps they watered it down because while it got you drunk (the goal) it also tasted terrible and vinegary.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 18:02
|
|
|
LingcodKilla posted:Perhaps they watered it down because while it got you drunk (the goal) it also tasted terrible and vinegary. Some probably did, like the third-pressing poo poo Cato recommends buying for your slaves. But the goal of drinking wine for rich Romans was because they liked drinking it, not only because they wanted to get shitfaced. Wine was important to (rich) Romans, they wrote a lot about how to make it and how to make it well. They spent a lot of time, money and effort on enjoying it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 18:21
|
|
|
How come every nerd on the internet, when asked what they would invent if transported back in time to Ancient Rome, goes with some military or scientific technology that would either require New World items, or get them looked at as fools for trying to satisfy needs that weren't there? Everyone always says gunpowder or trans-Atlantic seafaring or boring obvious poo poo like that. I'd invent chess, I feel like the Romans would like chess. Even if I'd probably fail to get any money out of it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 21:30
|
|
|
The train seems like a good bet to me tbh. Eat poo poo German barbarians, the legions from the Persian border are only a day away.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 21:32
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:The train seems like a good bet to me tbh. Eat poo poo German barbarians, the legions from the Persian border are only a day away. And you're powering it with what? Practical steam engine based rail needs very high quality steel compared to what the Romans generally knew how to make after all - because otherwise your steam engine is just going to blow itself to bits and kill anyone standing near it when it goes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 21:37
|
|
|
Alvarez IV posted:How come every nerd on the internet, when asked what they would invent if transported back in time to Ancient Rome, goes with some military or scientific technology that would either require New World items, or get them looked at as fools for trying to satisfy needs that weren't there? Everyone always says gunpowder or trans-Atlantic seafaring or boring obvious poo poo like that. I'd invent chess, I feel like the Romans would like chess. Even if I'd probably fail to get any money out of it. what about a number system that isn't total rear end
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 21:40
|
|
|
fishmech posted:And you're powering it with what? Practical steam engine based rail needs very high quality steel compared to what the Romans generally knew how to make after all - because otherwise your steam engine is just going to blow itself to bits and kill anyone standing near it when it goes. I may not actually know very much about trains
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 21:40
|
|
|
I'd invent box wine
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 21:48
|
|
|
fishmech posted:And you're powering it with what? Practical steam engine based rail needs very high quality steel compared to what the Romans generally knew how to make after all - because otherwise your steam engine is just going to blow itself to bits and kill anyone standing near it when it goes. human sacrifice! Seriously what I would maybe try to do is a printing press, the Roman world might not have advanced enough metallurgy to do to the movable type metal press, but I bet you could successfully have wood block printing, which while not perfect would be a big step forward? I guess another thing would be how to improve steel production so you can build all your fancy steam engines, guns, tanks etc.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 21:49
|
|
|
If I was to be stuck in ancient [insert favorite civilization here] the first thing I'd teach them is about vaccination and the principle behind it. Odds are that you'll catch something and die from it in the first few weeks, so vaccinating yourself would be very important.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 21:52
|
|
|
Bessemer process?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 21:52
|
|
|
Anyone not saying distillation is a person who hasn't drank enough.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 21:57
|
|
|
Vaccination, bottling food, nitration, population explosion, mass death, now I don't have to be born. Best invention.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 21:58
|
|
|
My understanding is that a basic smallpox vaccine is pretty braindead simple--just take the crushed up remains of an infected person's pocks, let them sit for a bit to be sure the viruses are dead, then snort them. This has a much higher fatality rate than modern vaccines, but is still much much better than actually catching smallpox.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 21:58
|
|
|
Real answer: die in a gutter because you can't speak any language on Earth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 21:59
|
|
|
Bicycles? The legions will ride to the battlefield in a clatter of bells and cries of "Ciao!"
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 22:02
|
|
|
Rockopolis posted:Bicycles? The legions will ride to the battlefield in a clatter of bells and cries of "Ciao!" Rubber wheels require a new world plant
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 22:03
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:My understanding is that a basic smallpox vaccine is pretty braindead simple--just take the crushed up remains of an infected person's pocks, let them sit for a bit to be sure the viruses are dead, then snort them. This has a much higher fatality rate than modern vaccines, but is still much much better than actually catching smallpox. That's the stupid way to do it, getting a live sample of cowpox and introducing it to an open wound is safer and easier.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 22:04
|
|
|
fishmech posted:And you're powering it with what? Practical steam engine based rail needs very high quality steel compared to what the Romans generally knew how to make after all - because otherwise your steam engine is just going to blow itself to bits and kill anyone standing near it when it goes. High quality steel for the engine, large quantities of something worth a drat for the tracks, mines for coal and all the infrastructure that implies, etc. etc. Almost any industrial product is built on a foundation made of many other products and ideas. It's entirely possible for there to be multiple ways for something to come about, but it's exceedingly unlikely to be able to go back centuries from when a society developed something and not have a whole bunch of prerequisites for being able to make something and for needing that something be missing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 22:06
|
|
|
Just to be clear, in this scenario where I'm a time traveler and can invent any technology I want, the limitation is that the resources for it have to be naturally available in the setting I'm time traveling to? This isn't as fun as it could be
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 22:09
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:That's the stupid way to do it, getting a live sample of cowpox and introducing it to an open wound is safer and easier. "Vaccinations cause barbarianism. My cousin was vaccinated and now he wears pants." Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Apr 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 22:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 12:24 |
|
|
Ainsley McTree posted:Just to be clear, in this scenario where I'm a time traveler and can invent any technology I want, the limitation is that the resources for it have to be naturally available in the setting I'm time traveling to? This isn't as fun as it could be It becomes an interesting angle to approach the various interlocking things that make societies work from, though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 22:15
|
|