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at least in symphonia and abyss a big problem with skits in the US version is that they removed all the voice acting because they were too lazy to pay the actors but the text still scrolls suuuuuuuuuuuuper slow to match the nonexistant jp voice acting timing & that really brings the whole experience down anyway I feel like chatting with people in safe rooms/at the hideout and random texting is basically what skits already are so I dunno how else you'd add it other than increasing volume.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:41
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guts and bolts posted:Most of the skits I remember from Abyss, Vesperia, and Zestiria are loving awful garbage that progress nothing, and exist so they'd get mileage out of their "sweatdrop-descending.png" art when someone ate someone else's candy or whatever. I think I would hate skits in Persona, since social links feel like a better version thereof. One huge thing skits have over social links is they have many that don't involve the main character in any capacity
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Apr 20, 2017 01:41
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ROFL Octopus posted:I like it and I think it's cool and good that we get to fight jack frosts as opposed to say, a fuckin table RIP hulk hogan and voltron shadows, you were taken too soon.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:42
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Again, If momentos was fun and the skits weren't interrupted by opening a door my problems would be solved.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:41
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darealkooky posted:at least in symphonia and abyss a big problem with skits in the US version is that they removed all the voice acting because they were too lazy to pay the actors but the text still scrolls suuuuuuuuuuuuper slow to match the nonexistant jp voice acting timing & that really brings the whole experience down Anyway the big diff. between skits and s. links is s. links A) have a linear progression and are supposed to have an arc and B) are only between the protag and the character being s. linked, and the protag is a brick wall of dialogue options so S. links are almost always a character monologuing at the camera about their motivations and backstory with an occasional pause so you can figure out if 'that sucks,' 'that's bad,' or 'that's not very good,' will give you more points. meanwhile skits are between any number of characters and are just random conversations, so there's no need for a sensible progression from skit 1 to skit 2, they can be about anything. one skit estelle can be trying to talk to the dog, the next her and rita can be talking about birthdays or whatever. and I guess my issue with the mementos convos is that they're totally random two line exchanges, and the convos at the hideout are good but there aren't a lot of them and they're usually focused on some specific task instead of just being the characters shooting the poo poo.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:43
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SyntheticPolygon posted:They just don't really address it with each other at all which is weird. It's entirely likely they resolve it off-screen, between themselves. It kind of makes sense; it's not really anything to do with you as the main character, so it'd be weird to shoehorn you in to witness them hashing out their friendship with each other.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:44
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The Gorp posted:Again, If momentos was fun and the skits weren't interrupted by opening a door my problems would be solved. Really they should happen in dungeons. Or those IMs you constantly send during class that they only used to recap the plot so far.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:44
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I finally finished the game. Having played Persona 3 a very long time ago, and Persona 4 for about 6 hours, I stuck to Normal difficulty for my first playthrough and thought it was too easy toward the end; probably anyone who has played the previous games before could start on Hard and be better off for it. I definitely thought the endgame on Normal was way too easy, the final boss was a cakewalk and one of the easiest boss fights in the game imo, I'm glad I didn't spent too much time trying to grind up level 90 personas for him. The game's ending is screaming for a DLC expansion with a new Palace for Joker, where the player can choose not to relinquish their power and instead continue to wield it. Fighting your own Palace would be one hell of a way to cap off the game, I could definitely see the story for it working based on how Joker is characterized through the game. Overall I liked Persona 5 a lot, definitely enough to replay on a harder difficulty. The story was great overall and really captured some great themes. Kamoshida was a fantastic opening villain and Shido was a great final antagonist, although I did have a laugh when Shido and Akechi spent a good 5 minutes summarizing all their evil deeds to each other. The ending was a pretty typical JRPG ending but I did like how it wrapped in the core theme of people imprisoning themselves in the confines of society. My favorite bit of the story was how much weight the game placed on who the traitor was, a question answered really early in the plot, while the real twist was how Joker faked his own death and escaped captivity. That was a great reveal that brought together a lot of little clues left earlier in the game. I only used a guide for social link answers and didn't end up maxing all of them (Fortune 8, Devil 8) but I think it would be trivial to do without a 100% plotted GameFAQs guide with just a little bit of information: - Most Devil and some Sun rank-ups give lots of Charm, as good as taking a medicine bath - Tower gives out lots of Kindness on nearly every rank-up (but unlocks fairly late), as good as feeding your flower the best nutrients - The sooner Temperence is completed, the more time it saves - Ranking up Fortune will also save you time in the long run The Ninth Layer fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Apr 20, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2017 01:44
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Endorph posted:i dont think you remember skits very well, then, because there's lots of funny ones and also ones that expand a ton on characterization and worldbuilding, and i cant even remember one like what you're describing. I mostly remember them in Vesperia, and the skits were just really boring and incredibly high in volume. I also recall an achievement for seeing them all, which is probably why I have such a negative opinion on them - there were a lot, and they felt largely pointless. My recollection of them is that they largely fell into exposition for exposition's sake, repeating plot details you likely had just seen explained a few moments ago, or were just kind of like... generic and bland conversation? I can't remember any of them being really good, outside of a few based on gags? But yeah, it's been a while. I still think that if you find social links boring or generic, skits are not the solution to that problem.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:46
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8-Bit Scholar posted:It's entirely likely they resolve it off-screen, between themselves. It kind of makes sense; it's not really anything to do with you as the main character, so it'd be weird to shoehorn you in to witness them hashing out their friendship with each other. It'd be nice to witness it happening. If not me the character but me the player who is invested in the stories of the party members and cares about them.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:47
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8-Bit Scholar posted:It's entirely likely they resolve it off-screen, between themselves. It kind of makes sense; it's not really anything to do with you as the main character, so it'd be weird to shoehorn you in to witness them hashing out their friendship with each other. It's weird to show you the characters having character development? That's the whole reason I'm here! That's the whole point of a character You can't just have the character go from A to B. That's like the most important thing about characters! Not showing you the character development is like the most laziest thing I can think of. Not showing that development is what caused Persona 4 to have characters that can be so easily watered down to like two things about them that Arena and Persona Q did at times Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Apr 20, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2017 01:47
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8-Bit Scholar posted:It's entirely likely they resolve it off-screen, between themselves. It kind of makes sense; it's not really anything to do with you as the main character, so it'd be weird to shoehorn you in to witness them hashing out their friendship with each other. except in the previous game in the series, one that P4 is so heavily based on it's entire soundtrack is still on the disk for no reason other than it being more  to remove than just dummy out, had multiple scenes where exactly this happens like akihiko getting sad about shinji at his funeral alone or yukari and mitsuru coming to terms with their game long animosity after bonding over their mutually dead dads who were involved in the same shady poo pooso for p4 to not do this means either they either just got lazy or the writers no longer think things like this are important actually thinking about it P4 ~totally~ does this anyway with all those teddie/nanako scenes in the hospital so who even knows what they were doing darealkooky fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Apr 20, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2017 01:47
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what im trying to communicate here is that i just want a bunch of scenes of the party hanging out in various combinations, and skits basically allow for that because they're quick enough that you can put in a lot of them but long enough to feel like actual dynamics are developing. the text convos in this game are one of the highlights but it's a huge golden corral of the entire party, nobody is actually in the same room as each other, and morgana isn't in them. like, iunno, imagine a quick 30 second bit of ryuji and haru hanging out afterschool and ryuji's like 'i think ill grab some teriyaki or something, you want any' and haru's like 'im a vegetarian' and ryuji's like '.... but your dad makes burgers...???', mwaq mwaq mwaq mwaq, roll credits, and then there's a follow up 30 second bit of ryuji and haru at a fancy vegetarian restaurant and ryuji's like 'hey, this actually isn't bad,' and haru's like 'right!!' and then a waiter comes by and ryuji's like 'oh, i'll pay for my half, don't worry' and then he looks at the bill and just slowly puts his wallet back down and looks away out of guilt and shame. those two things would establish a dynamic between them, be funny, and wouldn't take that much time.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:48
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I think they already made their clumsy attempt to do more stuff like that with golden, and it ended up being the lame rear end go to the beach/start a band/hang out with marie scenes
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Apr 20, 2017 01:49
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Moltrey posted:Dude what It's development that happens in their S-links, with you present, in a context where it makes sense for you to be there. You don't need to be present to see Yukiko and Chie discuss their friendship and what it really means; presuming that they even needed to. As I said before, the toxic nature of their friendship stemmed from their individual insecurities, which they overcome as a matter of defeating their Shadows and then ultimately S-linking with you, the player. They remain good friends throughout because they literally grew up together.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:50
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Also after beating Persona 5 I really want to play Nocturne again, especially after the ending sequence. I can't wait to get another SMT game based off the assets from this one.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:51
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No Mods No Masters posted:I think they already made their clumsy attempt to do more stuff like that with golden, and it ended up being the lame rear end go to the beach/start a band/hang out with marie scenes Starting a band ruled though!!!!!
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Apr 20, 2017 01:50
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Moltrey posted:Dude what That's a bit unfair. You can only say that retroactively and it's hard to say for certain why those characters are that way in those games. For all we know, P5's cast will appear in other games in very watered down basic caricatures of themselves.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:51
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guts and bolts posted:I mostly remember them in Vesperia, and the skits were just really boring and incredibly high in volume. I also recall an achievement for seeing them all, which is probably why I have such a negative opinion on them - there were a lot, and they felt largely pointless. My recollection of them is that they largely fell into exposition for exposition's sake, repeating plot details you likely had just seen explained a few moments ago, or were just kind of like... generic and bland conversation? I can't remember any of them being really good, outside of a few based on gags? But yeah, it's been a while. They are pointless in that they don't advance the plot, but they are about fleshing out character dynamics, which social links are not designed to do. You can have both social links and skits. In fact you should
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Apr 20, 2017 01:51
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I guess technically the various message chains in this game basically amount to being a slightly less well presented skit.Endorph posted:yeah that sucked but they dubbed them from vesperia onwards so that's solved. Excuse me, Legendia onwards  Also, there needs to be victory skits.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:51
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We now live in a world where it may be encouraged not to put too much interaction between characters in the game. If we were completely satisfied and hit all the bases, how would we get people to.... 1. Read the Manga 2. Watch the Anime 3. Play the side-story game in a year 4. Buy the remake with a new Mary-Sue Velvet Room attendant and two new culture festivals and much more!
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Apr 20, 2017 01:52
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Starting a band ruled though!!!!!
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Apr 20, 2017 01:52
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Starting a band ruled though!!!!! Yeah, those scenes were dumb in the best possible way and everyone getting stage fright in front of a tiny small town crowd was great. 
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Apr 20, 2017 01:51
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dig up, thread
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Apr 20, 2017 01:52
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[quote="8-Bit Scholar" post="471537902"] It's development that happens in their S-links, with you present, in a context where it makes sense for you to be there. You don't need to be present to see Yukiko and Chie discuss their friendship and what it really means; presuming that they even needed to. [quote] yu narakumi does not need to be there, but i, the player, would like to see them grow more genuinely comfortable with each other since they are both decently likable characters and i enjoy their dynamic when they're allowed to actually show it. the protagonist does not need to be in a scene for it to be shown.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:52
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OneDeadman posted:Excuse me, Legendia onwards I still have a huge soft spot for that game though, warts and all.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:52
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Honestly the persona games are insanely verbose enough already, they should make more efficient use of the reams and reams of dialogue they have already than add even more scenes to mash through
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Apr 20, 2017 01:53
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OneDeadman posted:Also, there needs to be victory skits. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Xvk8Q0Nk8
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Apr 20, 2017 01:53
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OneDeadman posted:Excuse me, Legendia onwards that game only had slightly more skits than it did unique dungeon gimmmicks or characters I didn't violently hate, so it's not really fair to count that one
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Apr 20, 2017 01:54
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Endorph posted:what im trying to communicate here is that i just want a bunch of scenes of the party hanging out in various combinations, and skits basically allow for that because they're quick enough that you can put in a lot of them but long enough to feel like actual dynamics are developing. the text convos in this game are one of the highlights but it's a huge golden corral of the entire party, nobody is actually in the same room as each other, and morgana isn't in them. It would be cool to have social link-esque scenes between people who aren't the MC, but I also don't know if that meshes super well with the tone or point of Persona's narrative - we're basically just living in the MC's shoes. Stuff happens off-screen to us and we're usually not privy to it unless it is directly related to the plot (Sae and Akechi talking, Makoto at home, SIU Director's inane babbling, etc.) I think it's a good idea to have characters interact more frequently with people who aren't you, like in Persona 3 that happens a good bit? But if the game periodically stopped so I could read a conversation with character portrait panes talking about boring nonsense I'd probably not like that. I already find most of the lines in Mementos to be basically white noise, save for a few.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:53
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Endorph posted:[quote="8-Bit Scholar" post="471537902"] Yeah there are several great skits that Velvet soesnt even know happened and they are great.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:54
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8-Bit Scholar posted:It's development that happens in their S-links, with you present, in a context where it makes sense for you to be there. You don't need to be present to see Yukiko and Chie discuss their friendship and what it really means; presuming that they even needed to. As I said before, the toxic nature of their friendship stemmed from their individual insecurities, which they overcome as a matter of defeating their Shadows and then ultimately S-linking with you, the player. They remain good friends throughout because they literally grew up together.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:54
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OneDeadman posted:Also, there needs to be victory skits. Did you see that Shinji?
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Apr 20, 2017 01:55
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No Mods No Masters posted:Honestly the persona games are insanely verbose enough already, they should make more efficient use of the reams and reams of dialogue they have already than add even more scenes to mash through They could cut a lot of dialogue by cutting the mini plot recaps that happen nearly daily during story events.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:56
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I feel like one of the differences between P3 and P4/5 is that P3 didn't have social links for most of the main cast, and the social links that did exist tended to be about side issues rather than core character conflicts which were mostly resolved in plot. Moving everyone to supports and making them about fundamental character things means fitting scenes like the P3 stuff is a lot harder and gets mucky when it touches on anything the social links do because it might retread the same ground, or if you start the link late you get a totally regression in personality.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:56
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it's almost like party member slinks as they currently exist are a bad idea or something
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Apr 20, 2017 01:56
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No Mods No Masters posted:I think they already made their clumsy attempt to do more stuff like that with golden, and it ended up being the lame rear end go to the beach/start a band/hang out with marie scenes The beach scene was amazing. wtf.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:56
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The Ninth Layer posted:Also after beating Persona 5 I really want to play Nocturne again, especially after the ending sequence. I can't wait to get another SMT game based off the assets from this one. I really hope they reuse their assets and engine to make another SMT game or something like they did in the PS2 era. A new wave of current gen SMT would be baller.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:56
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CharlestheHammer posted:They could cut a lot of dialogue by cutting the mini plot recaps that happen nearly daily during story events. Or, instead of having pointless white noise like "character approaches you at train station, reminds you of your deadline, asks you to go to the Palace today," they could just show us two other characters talking about their day or building their relationships. I'd be down with that, as long as they were short and punchy and there weren't a million of them. I wound up skipping a majority of the Vesperia skits because of how boring they were.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:57
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darealkooky posted:it's almost like party member slinks as they currently exist are a bad idea or something They aren't a bad idea but they need to be supplemented.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:57
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