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SyntheticPolygon posted:The butterflies in p5 are Lavenza though. Maybe the gold-eyed/white-haired attendants are all descendants/aspects of Philemon. That's definitely getting into much more speculative territory though.
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Apr 20, 2017 01:42
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Just finished the game! Morgana disappearing for two months and then coming back like nothing happened is the most cat thing ever. Also, why didn't the crew bring Sojiro and Sae into Mementos for like five minutes so that Morgana could talk to them, if you told me there was I way that I could suddenly communicate with my cat like that I would be all over it (he wouldn't tell me "go to bed", he would tell me "no, don't get up"). On a more serious note, I feel like the game really stuck the ending. The way it transitioned into gnostic themes wasn't something that I saw coming, but in retrospect it's an escalation that makes absolutely perfect sense; the Demiurge is the ultimate example of the attitude that the Phantom Thieves are punishing. Good game, 10/10 would play again, Makoto is best.
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Apr 20, 2017 02:24
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you summon satan who manifests a giant gun to blow a god's brains out. none of this "reveal the truth" or "accepting death" bs, you just headshot the fucker and get home in time for christmas
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Apr 20, 2017 02:31
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CharlestonJew posted:you summon satan who manifests a giant gun to blow a god's brains out. none of this "reveal the truth" or "accepting death" bs, you just headshot the fucker and get home in time for christmas Then a couple of months later you go on a road trip and dunk on some cops. Good ending.
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Apr 20, 2017 02:32
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Apr 20, 2017 02:53
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I just beat the game yesterday and I thought hard mode was extremely well balanced gameplay and storywise. The final boss that's ten times bigger than anything you've fought the entire game, Morgana calling you all a bunch of idiots for even thinking of fighting that thing, the battle music, the fact that I had to literally use every party member due to SP exhaustion and struggling at the end dumping all 20 mystery stews on Morgana until I literally had no resources and then finally pulling it off gives justification for all the boasting being done by the final boss.
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Apr 20, 2017 05:41
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Harrow posted:I wish the non-romantic route option for Futaba was "because we're family" instead of "because we're teammates," because I sorta felt like their relationship was close enough to go beyond being just part of the same team even if it isn't romantic. This game makes hefty and awkward use of the word "teammates" since the Japanese version makes heavy use of the word "Nakama".
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Apr 20, 2017 05:54
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Apr 20, 2017 06:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZmZFAAHelQ
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Apr 20, 2017 07:15
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So I just cleared Sae's palace, and I haven't read the rest of this thread, so maybe I'm just being retarded, buuuuttttt How the gently caress did your plan to fake your death actually work Okay so you don't actually steal Sae's treasure, you just pretend like you do so: check. Palace won't crumble or disappear, so it exists in the Metaverse. Then you get captured by the cops that Akechi brought into the Metaverse to ambush you. First question: wouldn't that mean that you and the rest of the police would mysteriously phase into existence before the very eyes of anyone outside the courthouse? Just because the surroundings look normal in the Metaverse unless a Palace is manifested doesn't mean that the people in the real world can see into the Metaverse and vice-versa - to them, you and about a hundred cops would just shimmer into being like, 'Sup. Okay whatever. Then you have Sae take your phone and show it to Akechi (?) to... activate the Meta Nav? I'm not sure why showing it to Akechi was important - couldn't they have just told her "hey, when you pass by Akechi, hit the weird-looking eyeball app icon"? From what I gather the point was to move Akechi (and, as a consequence, Sae) back into the Metaverse, so that Akechi would only kill the cognitive idea of the MC that Sae had in her head, without Akechi actually realizing what was going on. Because it was in the Metaverse but not actually in Sae's palace, no clothes-changing occurred to tip him off. And when he shot and killed you and the guard, you were just cognitive duplicates and obviously not genuine. I think??? that's what was said to me in the massive exposition dump, Ocean's Eleven style Also, for a game with normally very sharp writing and a tight narrative, the entire loving conversation between Akechi and Shido was awful, literally "as you know, <iterates every detail of evil plan>" "ahaha, oh yes, and do you recall how <elaborates on poo poo the other party already knows as well>?" Just real clunky and goofy sounding, I wonder if it was that terrible in the original Japanese
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Apr 20, 2017 07:22
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guts and bolts posted:So I just cleared Sae's palace, and I haven't read the rest of this thread, so maybe I'm just being retarded, buuuuttttt You got the plan pretty much right. The phone needed to be shown to Akechi because it was Futaba who remote-activated the app not Sae who was still out of the loop so she wouldn't tip Akechi off and she wanted to make sure she sent him into the metaverse when it activated. Also the cops could have just set up a perimeter and moved all the public away from the courthouse so they could get into and out of the metaverse no problem. Because they are the cops and they can do that.
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Apr 20, 2017 07:31
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The Lord of Hats posted:Also, why didn't the crew bring Sojiro and Sae into Mementos for like five minutes so that Morgana could talk to them
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Apr 20, 2017 09:20
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Honestly, there are a lot of things about people entering the Metaverse that is kind of inconsistent if you stop to think about it. For a while it seems like the only people that can are those with the potential to awaken a Persona and that maintains consistency until like Palace 4 when Futaba isn't dragged into the Metaverse when you enter the desert despite doing so right outside her room. Yaldabaoth still gives her the Metaverse Nav at this point because he can just do that and all, which breaks all the non-Joker rules established at that point anyway and then she enters of her own accord later for her awakening. Sure, whatever. Then Palace 5 happens, you enter the Metaverse right next to Akechi (albeit with only the player knowing that)... and he also doesn't get dragged in? Then the arrest happens in Palace 6 and a bunch of random policemen can enter the Metaverse? Despite random normals implicitly not being able to enter before, considering the number of them around during entering the Castle and especially the Bank? Sae not being able to understand Morgana is honestly more consistent with the established rules. Everyone else has their awakening before they can understand him (except maybe Ryuji? I don't remember there, but I don't think they interact in the real world before he gets Kidd), so that might be a factor.
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Apr 20, 2017 09:29
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NRVNQSR posted:Now that you say this it makes me realise: Sae has been in the metaverse but she still can't understand Morgana. I guess that's just an oversight. Eh, the whole thing is being in the Metaverse changes your cognition and allows to you percieve things you hadn't before. Sae's in for like five seconds and immediately walks out, and the part she goes into is identical to reality. I don't think it really challenged her cognition of the world enough. Its not like she even saw a shadow or a palace.
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Apr 20, 2017 09:43
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Dragonatrix posted:Honestly, there are a lot of things about people entering the Metaverse that is kind of inconsistent if you stop to think about it. For a while it seems like the only people that can are those with the potential to awaken a Persona and that maintains consistency until like Palace 4 when Futaba isn't dragged into the Metaverse when you enter the desert despite doing so right outside her room. Yaldabaoth still gives her the Metaverse Nav at this point because he can just do that and all, which breaks all the non-Joker rules established at that point anyway and then she enters of her own accord later for her awakening. Sure, whatever. I'm pretty sure Futaba gets it from the gang entering the Metaverse so close to her, like it was a proximity thing or because she was getting so involved in things as Ali Baba. Makes more sense to me than Yaldy just doing her a solid. Also, I assumed Akechi totally was brought in with them he just hid himself so he wasn't seen by the guys.
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Apr 20, 2017 09:45
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Dragonatrix posted:Honestly, there are a lot of things about people entering the Metaverse that is kind of inconsistent if you stop to think about it. For a while it seems like the only people that can are those with the potential to awaken a Persona and that maintains consistency until like Palace 4 when Futaba isn't dragged into the Metaverse when you enter the desert despite doing so right outside her room. Yaldabaoth still gives her the Metaverse Nav at this point because he can just do that and all, which breaks all the non-Joker rules established at that point anyway and then she enters of her own accord later for her awakening. Sure, whatever. Dragonatrix posted:Sae not being able to understand Morgana is honestly more consistent with the established rules. Everyone else has their awakening before they can understand him (except maybe Ryuji? I don't remember there, but I don't think they interact in the real world before he gets Kidd), so that might be a factor.
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Apr 20, 2017 09:50
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NRVNQSR posted:I'm not sure where you get persona potential as a requirement, since I can't think of anything that ever suggested that. It's never made an explicit suggestion, but it is implied very heavily a few times. Up until the events around Sae's palace, aside from the person operating the Nav, the only people that enter the Metaverse with them are... the playable characters. They either already have a Persona (Morgana, Haru, Akechi) or awaken shortly thereafter. It's not much of a stretch to presume that's a requirement up until it isn't so that it can make the cool as gently caress real plan for owning Akechi work. Like, this happens several times with the most blatant being when the crew first enter Kaneshiro's bank. That happens at Station Square surrounded by a bunch of people and the question that comes to the crew's mind isn't "will all these people end up there with us" but "will they see us disappear?" And then... neither of these things happen, so like if the only requirement is proximity then there's something amiss here. Along with when Joker and Ryuji stumble upon Kamoshida's castle, there's a bunch of folks around then too or when the gang (+Akechi) first go to Okumura's space station. Those guards outside Okumura Foods are right there and there's no concern or issue about them either. 
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Apr 20, 2017 10:05
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They straight up say that you have to hear Morgana talk int he metaverse to understand him in the real world.
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Apr 20, 2017 10:27
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cheetah7071 posted:They straight up say that you have to hear Morgana talk int he metaverse to understand him in the real world. Except for Goro. He can just talk to animals.
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Apr 20, 2017 11:06
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pankeiki does that to a man
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Apr 20, 2017 11:14
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Goro does tell you he's psychic back in like July
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Apr 20, 2017 11:13
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Except for Goro. He can just talk to animals. He could have been stalking you in the Metaverse prior to Pancakes and heard Morgana.
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Apr 20, 2017 14:36
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Harlock posted:He could have been stalking you in the Metaverse prior to Pancakes and heard Morgana. Wait I can't remember does the pancake thing happen before or after Madarama?
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Apr 20, 2017 14:45
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Electric Phantasm posted:Wait I can't remember does the pancake thing happen before or after Madarama? After you steal Madarame's heart
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Apr 20, 2017 14:49
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Yeah, it's right after Madarame. I mean, by that point Akechi had been going into the Metaverse longer than the Phantom Thieves had. He just got careless and didn't realize that he'd overheard a cat speaking and not someone else, which (for perceptive players and, as it turns out, the Phantom Thieves) was a tip that something was clearly off about Akechi's innocent act.
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Apr 20, 2017 14:51
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I'm really glad the cast in Persona 5 is a lot smarter than P4, the crew that meets a person, immediately sees them on the midnight channel that night, and has zero loving clue who it could possibly be
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Apr 20, 2017 15:05
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CharlestonJew posted:I'm really glad the cast in Persona 5 is a lot smarter than P4, the crew that meets a person, immediately sees them on the midnight channel that night, and has zero loving clue who it could possibly be Persona 4's greatest weakness and strength is its adherance to a television format. On a TV show, with weekly gaps between episodes, it sort of makes sense for the characters to struggle a bit to figure out the episode's mystery because the audience may want to try and guess along and you need to allow time for that. With the Investigation Team, though, it feels like they constantly don't learn any real detective skills from their various escapades until an actual detective shows up to solve the mystery in a single dungeon.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:09
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Harrow posted:Yeah, it's right after Madarame. That's why I was asking, since you learn about him being in the Metaverse after defeating Shadow Madarame it's possible that he was in there stalking you and where he first heard Morgana talk so he can hear him again talking about pancakes.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:11
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CharlestonJew posted:I'm really glad the cast in Persona 5 is a lot smarter than P4, the crew that meets a person, immediately sees them on the midnight channel that night, and has zero loving clue who it could possibly be Playing through P4 again, this really isn't true. You accurately guess who's on the midnight channel the first time in almost every instance and the game has you stalk Kanji and Rise for multiple days before their kidnapping to try to prevent it. The game cheats with Naoto and Nanako in that they don't get prior warning for Naoto's kidnapping and Nanako doesn't show properly until the night of. But they recognize them instantly. They end up making a lot of assumptioms, butthe rules for the midnight channel are arcane as gently caress and I can't blame them for making some of the deductions they do. Zore fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Apr 20, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2017 15:14
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Persona 4's greatest weakness and strength is its adherance to a television format. On a TV show, with weekly gaps between episodes, it sort of makes sense for the characters to struggle a bit to figure out the episode's mystery because the audience may want to try and guess along and you need to allow time for that. With the Investigation Team, though, it feels like they constantly don't learn any real detective skills from their various escapades until an actual detective shows up to solve the mystery in a single dungeon. The Investigation Team is not that great at Investigation. Unlike The Phantom Thieves. Since Makoto's basically a criminal mastermind, Futaba's a teen genius, and Morgana's pretty drat sharp as well. The rest are mostly sensible and also Ryuji.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:15
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I'm okay with Ryuji being dumb as bricks because he is the id and heart of the group. For real?!
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Apr 20, 2017 15:19
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Ryuji is cool but there were parts of the game I wanted to pin him against the wall and
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Apr 20, 2017 15:30
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I was sad that he never apologized for antagonizing Morgana so much when Morgana was clearly hurting, but complimenting Morgana's skills after he slingshots the remote out of Shadow Okumura's hands was probably Ryuji's version of a sincere apology.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:36
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He should have apologised to Mona, but Mona never really made any effort to not be a poo poo towards Ryuji either.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:37
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Harlock posted:I'm okay with Ryuji being dumb as bricks because he is the id and heart of the group. I like when he "died" after Palace 7 then came back unscathed then got beat up because he hurt everyone's feelings
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Apr 20, 2017 15:38
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To be fair to Ryuji, every time he opened his mouth or tried to be helpful, Morgana called him an idiot. He's kinda consistently a jerk to him. They're both lovely to each other, but Morgana was the one that got all pissy that he wasn't special anymore.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:40
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CharlestonJew posted:Ryuji is cool but there were parts of the game I wanted to pin him against the wall and Its worth it for that scene where Matoko is grilling you and you're trying to deflect her when Ryuji calls up and loudly shouts HEY LET'S GO TO OUR SECRET HIDEOUT TO PLAN CRIMES BECAUSE WE'RE THE PHANTOM THIEVES down the line.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:43
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multijoe posted:Its worth it for that scene where Matoko is grilling you and you're trying to deflect her when Ryuji calls up and loudly shouts HEY LET'S GO TO OUR SECRET HIDEOUT TO PLAN CRIMES BECAUSE WE'RE THE PHANTOM THIEVES down the line. Not being able to callout Ryuji in the scene immediately after that is the worst tho.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:48
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:To be fair to Ryuji, every time he opened his mouth or tried to be helpful, Morgana called him an idiot. He's kinda consistently a jerk to him. They're both lovely to each other, but Morgana was the one that got all pissy that he wasn't special anymore. That's true. I think the difference is that Ryuji never seems all that sensitive about it. He gets insulted and gives it back but doesn't dwell on it. Where Ryuji went wrong, I think, was not recognizing that Morgana was actually having a hard time and knowing when to support his friend. To Ryuji, he was just ribbing Morgana like always, not realizing that this really wasn't the time.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:49
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Harrow posted:That's true. I think the difference is that Ryuji never seems all that sensitive about it. He gets insulted and gives it back but doesn't dwell on it. Where Ryuji went wrong, I think, was not recognizing that Morgana was actually having a hard time and knowing when to support his friend. To Ryuji, he was just ribbing Morgana like always, not realizing that this really wasn't the time. I actually think this is entirely believable and realistic because I certainly have at least one friend like that, who is just so terrible at reading the mood it's unreal. Part of being insult slinging pseudo-hatefriends is knowing which subjects are genuinely off limits because the other person is actually insecure about that poo poo and picking on it isn't cool. Call them ugly or stupid or whatever just don't bring up the one thing they are actually sore about.
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Apr 20, 2017 16:02
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