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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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Majorian posted:It was a criticism that Clinton left herself incredibly open to, and you're deluded if you think Trump wouldn't have made the same criticisms of Clinton if Sanders hadn't. I don't have any problem with these statements. I have a problem with people who espouse them but also claim Corbyn has disasterous approval ratings because he was Backstabbed, which was Condiv's assertion. quote:It was a turn-of-phrase, intended to show you where Clinton failed as a leader. Apparently that went way over your head. It was a dumb reflexive response designed to obsfuscate the point.
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Apr 20, 2017 19:45
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JeffersonClay posted:I am talking about the democrats. It's been explained to you before why this is a dumbshit comparison, so it's not surprising that you're trying to beat this particular dead horse a bit more. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The arguments being made here ARE dumb. There isn't discourse here that leads to anything other than tankies getting mad that they don't have full communism now. When you find yourself on the same side of an argument as people like NewForumSoftware, maybe you should stop and think if you are on the right side. Yes, I too think that the Democratic Party is perfect in every way and that all criticism therefore is just them dumb lefties pining for full communism.
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Apr 20, 2017 19:45
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JeffersonClay posted:It was a dumb reflexive response designed to obsfuscate the point. Yes, because your point was dumb and doesn't even make sense. Cobryn is the leader of the opposition RIGHT NOW. Where's Hillary? She never led anything but her campaign off a cliff and calling her a leader of the democratic party in any way is a joke.
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Apr 20, 2017 19:48
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The arguments being made here ARE dumb. There isn't discourse here that leads to anything other than tankies getting mad that they don't have full communism now. When you find yourself on the same side of an argument as people like NewForumSoftware, maybe you should stop and think if you are on the right side. Who here has defended the tanks getting sent into Hungary in 1956? Because thats what that term means you know? I mean if you're going to use that term you should be able to back it up. Or if not that it tends to mean those who unquestionably defend dictators like Assad , the KIm's or Putins invasions.
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Apr 20, 2017 19:49
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Nevvy Z posted:Unironically this. Leftists don't get a pass on it just because I agree with them on things. ITT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKwyjsJGxk
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Apr 20, 2017 19:50
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call to action posted:Hillary would never do something like found the EPA The creation of the EPA didn't expand the regulatory power of the federal government - it didn't create any new enforcement mechanisms or substantive legislation - it was a reorganization. Clean Air Act was almost a full decade before the EPA, for instance, and was implemented by the precursor to HHS
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Apr 20, 2017 19:54
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Majorian posted:It was a criticism that Clinton left herself incredibly open to, and you're deluded if you think Trump wouldn't have made the same criticisms of Clinton if Sanders hadn't. sure, but the person making the criticism matters
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Apr 20, 2017 19:57
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Yes, my post was stupid. But it was still very thread appropriate. You guys don't seem to mind stupid posts that much. I'm a centrist. I vote for progressive politicians any time I am able to. I don't see how positions advocated in this thread by people like NewForumSoftware will do anything but push people away from progressive ideology and politicians. 50 state strategy? loving awesome! Supporting D's in hard R districts? loving awesome! Railing against centrists because they aren't politically pure enough for you? gently caress you. Hillary Clinton was a terrible candidate. she was still far better than anything we've ever had next to Obama. If you were railing against the likes of Joe Lieberman, I would be right there with you. Instead you guys are calling Cory loving Booker a centrist.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:00
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Yes, my post was stupid. But it was still very thread appropriate. You guys don't seem to mind stupid posts that much. the guy who voted against a bill to make drugs cheaper? yeah he's centrist af and bad
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Apr 20, 2017 20:03
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Yes, my post was stupid. But it was still very thread appropriate. You guys don't seem to mind stupid posts that much. Cory Booker is a centrist. Deal with it.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:03
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:Corey Booker is a centrist. Deal with it. He is a centrist in reference to your own position simply because you see anything to your right as the wrong side. He is a pretty solid center left politician. This is different than a centrist. True centrists don't exist anymore.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:05
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Cerebral Bore posted:It's been explained to you before why this is a dumbshit comparison, so it's not surprising that you're trying to beat this particular dead horse a bit more.. The only time I've made this comparison is right now in this thread, and the only objection to the comparison has been NFS' contention that Clinton wasn't really the democrats' leader.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:05
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Yes, my post was stupid. But it was still very thread appropriate. You guys don't seem to mind stupid posts that much. Anyone who voted down symbolic legislation to make pharmaceuticals cheaper really cannot be called progressive. Also considering how he scolded Obama for bringing up Baine during 2012.... Also I'll agree with Clay. She was the democrats leader. She was a leader of the democrats, who rather then campaigning in states she needed, kept going to fundraisers in SF, LA and NYC. She was a leader who rather then point out all the issues she supported in ads or on the campaign trail instead talked about how her opponent being unfit. She was a leader who didn't allow money to go towards down ticket races. She was a leader who didn't campaign nearly at all in States the dems would lose for the first time in over a generation. She was a leader who after seeing the left do substantially well n the primaries made no attempt to create a unity ticket instead turning to a uninspiring loyal lackey. She was a leader who then talked poo poo about her primary opponets fallowers and yt then when caught made no appologies. She was a leader who endorsed a policy of ignoring or activley atagoniing traditional dem voters because of a imagined group of moderate living in the conservative suburbs. For all of that this leader deserves to be buried along with her vangaurd. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Apr 20, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2017 20:07
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he's a rare holographic pale-blue centrist. one of a kind! please don't compare him to bad dems like hillary
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Apr 20, 2017 20:08
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:He is a centrist in reference to your own position simply because you see anything to your right as the wrong side. He is a pretty solid center left politician. This is different than a centrist. True centrists don't exist anymore. Sorry guy, you are wrong. He dodged the term "progressive", George Norcross III defended him as a fiscal conservative, he defended Bain capital, and he did vote against negotiation for drug prices, among other things. In the future you should rely on empirical assessments such as track records and stated positions as well as allies rather than whatever internal sensations you have in that addled centrist brain.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:12
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Yes, my post was stupid. But it was still very thread appropriate. You guys don't seem to mind stupid posts that much. Actually people are railing against the centrists because they're a bunch of incompetents who keep loving up yet still presume to demand respect, loyalty and absolute power ovet the party. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Hillary Clinton was a terrible candidate. she was still far better than anything we've ever had next to Obama.  JeffersonClay posted:The only time I've made this comparison is right now in this thread, and the only objection to the comparison has been NFS' contention that Clinton wasn't really the democrats' leader. In case you're clueless the supposed "backstabbing" of Clinton consisted of a bunch of regular-rear end people criticising her on the internet whereas the backstabbing of Corbyn was carried out by Labour MP:s and high-level party officials up to and including his own deputy leader. You might have a case if the progressive caucus had suddenly denounced Hillary in the middle of the election campaign and her own campaign staff had leaked those emails, but since that has not been the case your comparison is off as all gently caress.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:12
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Crowsbeak posted:Anyone who voted down symbolic legislation to make pharmaceuticals cheaper really cannot be called progressive. Also considering how he scolded Obama for bringing up Baine during 2012.... I don't think he calls himself a progressive. Also, I don't see the point of hanging a symbolic vote around his neck like it really mattered. If you don't think people like Cory Booker on on your side, it's no wonder you can't put a majority together. Instead of making GBS threads on him and those that support, you should see he votes with you 95% of the time and not try to push the ideologically impure from your ranks. Cory Booker ins't preventing you from achieving progressive legislative wins, so why focus on him instead of the R's that are actually the issue. How is this not loving obvious?
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Apr 20, 2017 20:14
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:He is a centrist in reference to your own position simply because you see anything to your right as the wrong side. He is a pretty solid center left politician. This is different than a centrist. True centrists don't exist anymore. He's pro-privatization and is in a cozy relationship with pharma and charter school lobbyists in a state which has swung heavily Democratic because of how bad the Republican governor was. He's a centrist.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:15
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If you look at the empirical record of Corey booker's senate votes he's indistinguishable from Tammy Baldwin and Liz Warren. http://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate
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Apr 20, 2017 20:18
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Cerebral Bore posted:Actually people are railing against the centrists because they're a bunch of incompetents who keep loving up yet still presume to demand respect, loyalty and absolute power over the party. I don;t think i can argue with this. if the DNC tries to run Hillary again for anything they deserve what they get. But please, name a national ticket candidate of a major party that is been more progressive than Hillary other than Obama. I am not aware of one.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:18
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:sure, but the person making the criticism matters There shall be no ill comments made about abuela in the primary, true or false, those are the rules!
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Apr 20, 2017 20:19
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I don't think he calls himself a progressive. Also, I don't see the point of hanging a symbolic vote around his neck like it really mattered. If you don't think people like Cory Booker on on your side, it's no wonder you can't put a majority together. Instead of making GBS threads on him and those that support, you should see he votes with you 95% of the time and not try to push the ideologically impure from your ranks. Cory Booker ins't preventing you from achieving progressive legislative wins, so why focus on him instead of the R's that are actually the issue. Wrong again. Do some research on how centrists have royally hosed up even deeper blue states, not because of opposition from the right but because their policies are poo poo for most people and they have a stranglehold on the party at all levels. I'll once again ask you to look at reality rather than the increasingly feverish dreams of the centrists.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:20
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I don't think he calls himself a progressive. Also, I don't see the point of hanging a symbolic vote around his neck like it really mattered. If you don't think people like Cory Booker on on your side, it's no wonder you can't put a majority together. Instead of making GBS threads on him and those that support, you should see he votes with you 95% of the time and not try to push the ideologically impure from your ranks. Cory Booker ins't preventing you from achieving progressive legislative wins, so why focus on him instead of the R's that are actually the issue. The way I see it is that Corey is a enough of a coward that if Mendez who is very unpopular was primaried he would become a very proud blue Senator for the rest of the time that he is in Washington.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:20
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:Wrong again. Do some research on how centrists have royally hosed up even deeper blue states, not because of opposition from the right but because their policies are poo poo for most people and they have a stranglehold on the party at all levels. JeffersonClay posted:If you look at the empirical record of Corey booker's senate votes he's indistinguishable from Tammy Baldwin and Liz Warren.  Keep loving that chicken guys. That drat centrist Cory Booker who votes 95% the same as the most progressive members of congress. Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Apr 20, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2017 20:20
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JeffersonClay posted:If you look at the empirical record of Corey booker's senate votes he's indistinguishable from Tammy Baldwin and Liz Warren. hillary and sanders are practically the same! perez and ellison are practically the same!! booker and warren are practically the same!!! all the dems are the same to jeffersonclay. he just cant tell the difference between lieberman and kennedy!
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Apr 20, 2017 20:21
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:Yes I'd be willing to help however I can. I have some experience in municipal government, for whatever it is worth which isn't much considering the horror show it tends to be.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:22
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JeffersonClay posted:I'm pretty sure the difference is that the Labor electorate that chose Corbyn is tiny compared to the Democrat electorate that chose Clinton.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:22
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:
The fact you and jc think this is at all meaningful data speaks volumes. Please, go on.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:23
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:
Voting record means poo poo. Booker is already tarnished as a puppet of Wall Street and Big Pharma. Running him for president in 2020 would be a loving disaster.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:26
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:The fact you and jc think this is at all meaningful data speaks volumes. Please, go on. AstheWorldWorlds posted:In the future you should rely on empirical assessments such as track records and stated positions as well as allies rather than whatever internal sensations you have in that addled centrist brain. You guys are so terrible a this.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:25
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Majorian posted:Voting record means poo poo. Booker is already tarnished as a puppet of Wall Street and Big Pharma. Running him for president in 2020 would be a loving disaster. I don't remember suggesting he run for president, only that he wasn't as terrible as people make him out to be.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:26
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:sure, but the person making the criticism matters It does, but the fact that the vast majority of Bernie supporters turned out for Clinton suggests that he didn't leave terribly deep wounds. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I don't remember suggesting he run for president, only that he wasn't as terrible as people make him out to be. The reason why people are unloading both barrels into him is that he's easily the most likely candidate for the centrists in 2020. And since centrists still hold the lion's share of power in the Democratic leadership, the left needs to make it clear that he is not an acceptable nominee.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:27
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:You guys are so terrible a this. Track record =/= narrow focus on voting record, but a good attempt.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:28
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Majorian posted:It does, but the fact that the vast majority of Bernie supporters turned out for Clinton suggests that he didn't leave terribly deep wounds. I feel like the rift on the DNC side was waaaay overstated. People with similar ideologies to those in this thread made it seem much worse than it really was. bernie had very little problem with Hillary other than her Economic centrist policies. People turned that into the idea that she was literally worse than trump.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:29
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I feel like the rift on the DNC side was waaaay overstated. People with similar ideologies to those in this thread made it seem much worse than it really was. bernie had very little problem with Hillary other than her Economic centrist policies. People turned that into the idea that she was literally worse than trump. There are some people who believe she would have been worse than Trump. I don't think very many of them post in this thread.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:30
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Maybe people are correct in being cautious about a man who said attacks against Bain were "nauseating"
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Apr 20, 2017 20:31
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Majorian posted:There are some people who believe she would have been worse than Trump. I don't think very many of them post in this thread. ANYONE that thinks that has no right to call themselves a progressive. Oh Snapple! posted:Maybe people are correct in being cautious about a man who said attacks against Bain were "nauseating" I mean, sure, but don't act like he is somehow not center left leaning overall.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:33
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Oh Snapple! posted:Maybe people are correct in being cautious about a man who said attacks against Bain were "nauseating" Naw dude, centrists don't exist anymore apparently.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:32
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We just had an extremely high-profile case of a bill not being brought to a vote because it would have embarrassed politicians. Actual bills being brought to a vote are done to ensure the least possible embarrassment and disagreement with ideological factions within a partyMajorian posted:Voting record means poo poo. Booker is already tarnished as a puppet of Wall Street and Big Pharma. Running him for president in 2020 would be a loving disaster. Yeah. The last several elections have showed voters are attracted to narrative and authenticity. Booker is attractive to a specific type of East Coast professional who thinks they're beyond all that
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Apr 20, 2017 20:34
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JeffersonClay posted:I don't have any problem with these statements. I have a problem with people who espouse them but also claim Corbyn has disasterous approval ratings because he was Backstabbed, which was Condiv's assertion. Hillary isn't Corbyn. Sanders is Corbyn, Hillary's toadies in the DNC are the backstabbers. HTH. You don't get to make Hillary into a betrayed underdog.
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Apr 20, 2017 20:35
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