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P-Mack posted:I've decided to summarize via political cartoon: I can't stop laughing at the thought of Luigi from super Mario Bros being saved by faith alone.
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Apr 22, 2017 08:56
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I can't stop laughing either, although not quite for the same reason.
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Apr 22, 2017 10:15
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Public Serpent posted:Thank you! And I don't mind at all. The Church of Sweden, which is Evangelical Lutheran. When I was born it was still the state church, so I would have been a member already if my parents hadn't both left the church before then. Hej och välkommen! Nice to have a member of the largest Lutheran church on board, unless Ethiopia went and surpassed you guys already, in which case nice to have you on board anyway.
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Apr 22, 2017 10:31
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pidan posted:I suppose it'd be to avoid a short-term marriage situation like they have in Iran, where you can basically have a promiscuous lifestyle sanctioned by the religious authorities, if you're a man. It doesn't automatically become valid. For "I was attempting bigamy, and then my spouse died, so now I can actually marry," I think there might have to be an exchange of vows, since any prior exchange of vows was done while at least one of the couple couldn't validly consent to a marriage, but it wouldn't have to be public or even announced.
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Apr 22, 2017 11:00
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Valiantman posted:Hej och välkommen! Ethiopia is lutheran  og velkommen, Public Serpent! Du burde blive asatrú som de seje børn, men hvad kan man gøre 
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Apr 22, 2017 11:28
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Let's just stop having sex, nothing good ever came out of it.
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Apr 22, 2017 12:26
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Don't be so hard on yourself.
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Apr 22, 2017 13:04
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Tias posted:Ethiopia is lutheran Wow, I actually hadn't checked the numbers. Mekane Yesus, Ethiopian Evangelical (Lutheran) Church is easily the largest in the world, with 8.3 million members. Sweden comes second with 6.1 million. Ethiopia is huge though, so it's only about 9% of the estimated population.
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Apr 22, 2017 13:08
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I guess that's why it used to be an Empire. Also gave Italians a bloody nose, but Italians haven't really been good at this war thing for the past 1700 years.
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Apr 22, 2017 13:16
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Can any of the erudite and/or Eastern Christians recommend me a good source for identifying and dealing with passions? HEY GAIL posted:also, Unseen Warfare, Greater Jihad, and Death To The World are all good band names
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Apr 22, 2017 14:33
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zonohedron posted:If he's not in good standing, there's the concept of "Ecclesia supplet", where the Church herself makes up for a lack of jurisdiction if a Catholic has no way of knowing that the priest isn't allowed to do a thing, or if there simply aren't any other priests around. (Paging Worthleast to the thread, Worthleast, I have an Ecclesia supplet question regarding the SSPX in aisle 160) You called? Ecclesia supplet is simply an application of the principle: The salvation of souls is the highest law. We used that argument for justifying confessing to SSPX priests since 1975, but now Papa supplet has made that argument obsolete. Pope Francis continues to surprise me and the canon lawyers by saying "this is how its going to be now, you figure out how it works". But hey, if my sins can be forgiven in the ordinary way instead of the extraordinary way, then my conscience is all the more clear, which is what the Pope wants anyways. I always liked the image of Our Lord at judgement saying "you thought you were confessing properly and doing everything right, but in fact a bishop 800 years ago messed up, and that was no priest at all! Muahahaha!" and someone saying "well I'll be damned!" as the trap door opens. Welcome Public Serpent!
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Apr 22, 2017 14:57
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Worthleast posted:I always liked the image of Our Lord at judgement saying "you thought you were confessing properly and doing everything right, but in fact a bishop 800 years ago messed up, and that was no priest at all! Muahahaha!" and someone saying "well I'll be damned!" as the trap door opens. I'm more of a fan of St. Peter sighing, handing you a blue book and asking you to write an essay about Christophanies in the Tanakh. me: yes, all this arguing on calvinist forums has paid off, heaven here I come, fully theologically correct and loving it
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Apr 22, 2017 15:38
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Senju Kannon posted:do you think the same about temporal absolution? if your friend fucks up, can you forgive them? It depends. That's sort of the thing, temporal absolution by virtue of being highly individual is very nuanced, some people might forgive you, some people might not, some people might have conditions. The issue I take with absolution from a God that you can't exactly sit down and have a conversation with is that, to the trespasser, this stands a reasonable chance of overruling the need for temporal absolution, if the creator of the universe is OK with you then anyone who disagrees is probably wrong, after all. And also by nature of the relationship it has to be kind of rules based. You follow the steps and you get your absolution, because you can't actually sit down and work out a settlement with God and your religious leader probably isn't able to do that both due to time, the nature of your relationship with them, and their not actually being involved in the wronging, so they don't have the facts, only your presentation of them. It seems like it relies super heavily on the person doing wrong to cop to it and have a somewhat objective concept of temporal justice, or to not care about temporal justice and just go with divine justice which, as an atheist, is obviously not something that I even recognize. It probably makes more sense if you believe everything will come right in the end and people will get what they deserve, but if you're stuck with the concept of the current life being all there is, it's really hard not to get annoyed when people behave according to this utterly alien concept of justice whereby something ceases to be a problem as long as you follow rules which don't at all guarantee a practical settlement between the parties involved. Obviously in practice I find most people have a concept of temporal justice regardless of their religious persuasion but there's the odd few who seem not to, and for whom their religious beliefs sub in, I don't get on well with them. StashAugustine posted:I mean the alternative is "you hosed up once, enjoy your stay in hell" I would probably characterize that as a problem with divine punishment as well, which the concept of divine absolution, if created in response to the problems of divine punishment, does a poor job of solving because it puts people in conflict with temporal justice. Ov OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Apr 22, 2017 |
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Apr 22, 2017 20:29
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read minjung theology
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Apr 22, 2017 20:38
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Senju Kannon posted:read minjung theology I think you're trying to give an example whereby temporal and divine justice are not necessarily conflicting, and while you are correct, I would argue that the most common Christian presentation of the two I am familiar with, is conflicting. It doesn't always create problems because I think most people don't fully internalize it and possess a sort of instinctive parallel concept of temporal justice, but I feel as though that is in spite of the conflict, not because of it.
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Apr 22, 2017 20:55
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actually it's an example that takes the effects of being sinned against as seriously as sinning and has really interesting ideas because of it too bad despite being majority christian korean theology hasn't spread out to the globe beyond academia
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Apr 22, 2017 21:00
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Senju Kannon posted:too bad despite being majority christian korean theology hasn't spread out to the globe beyond academia I think that's all 20th century theology though, or at least people refuse to engage with it. Liberation theology more like FRANKFURT SCHOOL MODERNIST ATHEIST MARXISM. Liberal Pentecostals are also developing a form of liberation theology which is more in line with the origins of the movement at Azusa Street and also the work of Pandita Ramabai. You will hear about this from approximately no one.
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Apr 22, 2017 23:32
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i mean i think racism is also a part of it, since a number of lay catholics know at least one german theologian but couldn't name an african or asian one if you held their family over lava, regardless of marxist ideology
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Apr 22, 2017 23:40
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I think a lot of hate and distrust towards Pentecostals and Charismatic Catholics comes from a place of racism. 'cause wow wouldn't you know it, it seems to be those swarthy poors who really like that stuff have you even heard of Karl Barth's dialectical Christology smdh They're going to have to deal with the shift of the global center of Christianity eventually; China's on the path to becoming the largest Christian nation in the world within about twenty years. They already have more Catholics than any country in Europe with a government that's hostile to religion and the Vatican just shrugs their shoulders at the whole situation.
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Apr 23, 2017 00:09
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The Phlegmatist posted:I think a lot of hate and distrust towards Pentecostals and Charismatic Catholics comes from a place of racism. 'cause wow wouldn't you know it, it seems to be those swarthy poors who really like that stuff have you even heard of Karl Barth's dialectical Christology smdh all the charismatic catholics i know are white as hell and i distrust them because their theology is completely insane and borderline heretical and they would absolutely shoot gays for sport if they could
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Apr 23, 2017 00:17
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Senju Kannon posted:i mean i think racism is also a part of it, since a number of lay catholics know at least one german theologian but couldn't name an african or asian one if you held their family over lava, regardless of marxist ideology Guilty as charged; please don't hold anyone I'm related to over lava. Any reading suggestions for me so I can avoid lava in future?
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Apr 23, 2017 00:41
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Well you live in white people country. All of the Charismatics at my parish are Mexican or Vietnamese.
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Apr 23, 2017 00:41
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i don't give a poo poo who believes in it, charismatic catholicism is hosed up. (whereas mexican folk catholicism is metal as hell and mostly rad)
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Apr 23, 2017 00:44
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zonohedron posted:Guilty as charged; please don't hold anyone I'm related to over lava. Any reading suggestions for me so I can avoid lava in future? i know zero ones that would appeal to a mainstream catholic so i am part of the problem wait i'm not catholic anymore that makes me adjacent to the problem augustine ichiro okumura would be the best one i can think of but his spirituality is SUPER japanese and SUPER catholic which is kinda in opposition to shusaku endo's themes in silence now that i think of it
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Apr 23, 2017 00:48
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Senju Kannon posted:i know zero ones that would appeal to a mainstream catholic so i am part of the problem I have purchased Awakening to Prayer and when Amazon deigns to leave it in the bushes next to my front door I will read it and give the thread a book report!
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Apr 23, 2017 00:52
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i bought it at a library book sale while I was in undergrad for a buck and is partially responsible for my eventual conversion to jodo shinshu so look forward to that i guess tho for real i would love to see your review no one i know has read it other than me
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Apr 23, 2017 00:55
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HEY GAIL posted:i don't give a poo poo who believes in it, charismatic catholicism is hosed up. (whereas mexican folk catholicism is metal as hell and mostly rad) lol if you've never seen an 80 year old vietnamese lady dance her feet off when that hammond organ starts playing during the praise break e: uh oh, a Japanese Carmelite, this sounds like something I should probably read too
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Apr 23, 2017 00:55
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i'm trying to find stuff by him in Japanese but when you don't know the kanji for someone's name it's basically a crapshoot
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Apr 23, 2017 01:02
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Senju Kannon posted:i'm trying to find stuff by him in Japanese but when you don't know the kanji for someone's name it's basically a crapshoot 奥村一郎 His name is easy to find. You just look up how Ichiro is spelled and then search for it with his name in Romaji.
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Apr 23, 2017 03:39
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none of it is online but here's the guy fake edit: wow, beaten
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Apr 23, 2017 03:40
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Paladinus posted:奥村一郎 女神 can be read Megami or Mary, i don't trust romaji to teach me how names are written in kanji
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Apr 23, 2017 03:57
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The Phlegmatist posted:none of it is online but here's the guy oh no he's dead i'm sad  there's a series of compilations of his work in tankobon form, i'm gonna check the first volume out and see if i can make anything out with the aid of a kanji dictionary. for some reason i feel like christian theology would be easier for me than shin buddhist studies
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Apr 23, 2017 03:59
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The Phlegmatist posted:I'm more of a fan of St. Peter sighing, handing you a blue book and asking you to write an essay about Christophanies in the Tanakh. Calvinist heaven is an eternity of debating how they got there, exactly.
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Apr 23, 2017 04:10
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CountFosco posted:Calvinist heaven is an eternity of debating how they got there, exactly. So it's exactly the same as Calvinist hell?
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Apr 23, 2017 10:31
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What's charismatic Catholicism?
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Apr 23, 2017 14:15
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JcDent posted:What's charismatic Catholicism? It's people who take a perfectly normal Eucharistic adoration and make it weird by adding light shows and singing. They also talk about following Jesus, quite loudly and in the vernacular. Or English. I think
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Apr 23, 2017 14:28
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Have any of you just stopped caring about theology Like I used to care a lot but now I care less about it than dealing with my own poo poo
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Apr 23, 2017 14:33
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Smoking Crow posted:Have any of you just stopped caring about theology Welcome to Evangelical Protestantism, please enjoy your stay.
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Apr 23, 2017 14:41
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JcDent posted:What's charismatic Catholicism? Speaking in tongues, healing masses where you can receive the Sacrament of Anointing the Sick, raising your hands in the air during Mass, a devotion to Padre Pio. They're basically Pentecostals except still Catholic. It's more popular in the global south than it is in the US or Europe (although I think there are quite a few in Italy) and you generally won't run into them unless you go seek them out. Or see a mariachi band at Adoration because they love that for some reason.
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Apr 23, 2017 14:49
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Smoking Crow posted:Have any of you just stopped caring about theology yes but i feel like me answering is cheating Cythereal posted:Welcome to Evangelical Protestantism, please enjoy your stay. listen i've read a ton of evangelical theologians (mostly as a "here's what the other side of this issue thinks" type of exercise) and let me tell you, there is an intellectual tradition there very small and very loathed by their own community, but it's there
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Apr 23, 2017 15:15
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