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Longbaugh01 posted:(I mean a lot of people seem to think Iron Fist was better than mediocre, but if it wasn't an MCU show I bet they wouldn't), I think I just have low expectations for TV in general.
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Apr 22, 2017 18:02
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Piell posted:Daisy is the worst and I hate her and her dumb dad  
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Apr 22, 2017 18:34
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Piell posted:Daisy is the worst and I hate her and her dumb dad 
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Apr 22, 2017 18:57
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Drifter posted:What was the good fight scene? A lot of people liked the Drunken Boxing one, but I felt it was pretty lacking, better only by comparison, not in actuality. Was it a Colleen scene? Drunken master. I'm not saying it was some amazing fight choreography, but at least the drunk guy did a good job.
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Apr 22, 2017 19:24
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So yeah, as can be seen in this thread, you'd have to give one of the later seasons a shot for yourself and get an answer of why it stuck around for 4 seasons that way. Because no one's going to give a satisfying answer on the show's quality at this point without coming off like a shill.
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Apr 22, 2017 19:33
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Or everyone watch Legion instead because it's fuckin dope as hell.
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Apr 22, 2017 19:35
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I watched agents of Shield well past the point it supposedly gets really good. It's ok, but watchable. It's really about on the level of Iron Fist or Arrow, and nowhere near as good as Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Daredevil.
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Apr 22, 2017 19:47
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No, Iron Fist is really bad. And no Shield arc was ever as bad as the back half of Luke Cage. AOS never introduced the core villain halfway into the season. Hell, Iron Fist really introduces the main villain really in the last 4 or so episodes.
notthegoatseguy fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Apr 22, 2017 |
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Apr 22, 2017 19:58
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notthegoatseguy posted:Drunken master. I'm not saying it was some amazing fight choreography, but at least the drunk guy did a good job. The best fight in my opinion from Iron Fist was the old footage of the other Iron Fist beating up those Chinese Soldiers.
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Apr 22, 2017 20:08
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Drifter posted:The best fight in my opinion from Iron Fist was the old footage of the other Iron Fist beating up those Chinese Soldiers. I completely forgot about that, but yeah that was great. But it had no dialogue and no real emotional weight. And still, for a show called Iron Fist, only having two memorable fight scenes is ridiculous.
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Apr 22, 2017 20:17
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notthegoatseguy posted:No, Iron Fist is really bad. And no Shield arc was ever as bad as the back half of Luke Cage. AOS never introduced the core villain halfway into the season. Hell, Iron Fist really introduces the main villain really in the last 4 or so episodes. You sure about that? 
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Apr 22, 2017 20:20
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Touche. But I think having Ward mentioning him earlier, and having a firmly established relationship and being featured before the Winter Soldier reveal, helped develop the character and didn't feel shoe-horned in. Unlike Bokuto who appears for like 1 minute in his first introduction and really isn't expanded upon until the 11th or 12th episode of Iron Fist.
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Apr 22, 2017 20:29
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The thing with Agents of Shields is that it spends its first dozen episodes or so treading water as a by the numbers cop show with vague references to the MCU and most everyone agrees its some degree of crap. Then in the course of one episode they turn everything upside down, establish compelling villains, ramp up the comic bookiness, and step on the gas. The for the rest of the run they keep at it and develop their own stuff away from the MCU which just gives everything a better purpose and flow. Now, you don't have to go and watch it. And if you do if you hate the MCU movies or the CW shows or the netflix shows or Buffy or who the hell knows what, you might still hate Agents of Shield. But like, when people say "it gets better after X episodes" they're not saying it undergoes some subtle change or finds itself that is an excuse for "stockholm syndrome." They're saying that there's actually a moment when the whole thing gets turned upside down and really does become a different show. Whether you like that show or not is only something you can decide. Also, the "22 episode slog" isn't really that big a issue since after S1 Agents of Shield basically brakes their seasons into halves or thirds, storywise. And actually, S1 probably qualifies for that too, its just that the first half is all place setting. But again, I don't imagine many of the people who hate the MCU or think the Netflix shows are mediocre or think the CW shows are hopeless are going to suddenly find that Shield is the "greatest show ever" or anything. So like, control your expectations and don't expect a miracle.
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Apr 22, 2017 20:42
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notthegoatseguy posted:Touche. But I think having Ward mentioning him earlier, and having a firmly established relationship and being featured before the Winter Soldier reveal, helped develop the character and didn't feel shoe-horned in. Unlike Bokuto who appears for like 1 minute in his first introduction and really isn't expanded upon until the 11th or 12th episode of Iron Fist. By the same token, Diamondback gets mentioned all through the first half of Cage, and Shades shows up as the dude's personal rep, and they even refer to Luke's backstory a few times in flashback. Can't help you on Iron Fist, though. Haven't seen it and after most everyone says it sucks, probably won't.
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Apr 22, 2017 20:44
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I'm going with seasons 1 of Iron Fist and Luke Cage both being better than season 1 of Agents of Shield. This is because a far smaller percentage of the people who started watching either Iron Fist or Luke Cage decided to refuse to ever watch the show again than those who wrote Agents of Shield off. We'll have to wait until seasons 2 of Iron Fist, Luke Cage, or Heroes for Hire to determine if the apparently new and improved post disastrous water treading Agents of Shield is actually the better show. I know I watched all the episodes of the Netflix shows but never made it more than 3 episodes into Agents of Shield.
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Apr 22, 2017 21:21
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I'm having a lot of trouble picturing the Netflix versions of Luke Cage and Danny Rand being best friends
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Apr 22, 2017 21:35
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Guy Goodbody posted:I'm having a lot of trouble picturing the Netflix versions of Luke Cage and Danny Rand being best friends Only Danny Rand's Iron Fist can punch through to Luke Cage's heart.
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Apr 22, 2017 21:38
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Gyges posted:I'm going with seasons 1 of Iron Fist and Luke Cage both being better than season 1 of Agents of Shield. That's certainly a valid opinion, but I really think it's an apples-to-kumquats comparison. The Netflix shows are marketed as 'event' television that people need to watch if they want to be part of the conversation. I've seen people who have hated Iron Fist slog through it regardless out of some misplaced sense of obligation. Agents of Shield is marketed as just another tv show among many. Especially now that it's obvious the movies aren't paying attention to the show I can understand how 'fans of the MCU' feel like they have permission to ignore it. So the people who like it watch it, and the people who don't watch NCIS instead.
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Apr 22, 2017 21:37
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Eh. They're both kind of earnest and emotional guys who just kind of ended up heroes because of personal tragedy and a sense of right and wrong. And the both love old school hip hop. I mean, I know everyone hates Danny but the reaction the people in the story had to him was to be kind of frustrated by his earnestness but then respect and like him because of it. I see no reason why Luke wouldn't have the same reaction, especially since he's got some of the same stuff. Now, Jessica. Her I have a hard time seeing liking Danny, at least overtly and right away. But that could actually be fun if they do it right. Especially since she too is an emo product of personal tragedy and connected with Luke over it. She just hides her earnestness/idealism under cynicism and antisocial behavior. So Danny would probably end up a lot like Malcolm in pushing his way in. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Apr 22, 2017 |
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Apr 22, 2017 21:39
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As someone who watches all MCU and some DCU poo poo, I'd put Legion, DD season 1, and JJ at the top without a second thought. Not sure on the order. They all do something amazing and I love them dearly. Shield never comes close but at the same time, it never feels like it's supposed to. It's the endless but more consistent mainline run to the other shows' brilliant short runs that can get away with being artsy fartsy or traveling into the dark heart of mankind.
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Apr 22, 2017 22:06
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Guy Goodbody posted:I'm having a lot of trouble picturing the Netflix versions of Luke Cage and Danny Rand being best friends I'm pretty sure JJ would hate Danny as well. They're going to have to have Claire insist or have Danny appeal to Matt, who'd probably take pity on him.
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Apr 22, 2017 22:30
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Gyges posted:I'm going with seasons 1 of Iron Fist and Luke Cage both being better than season 1 of Agents of Shield. This is because a far smaller percentage of the people who started watching either Iron Fist or Luke Cage decided to refuse to ever watch the show again than those who wrote Agents of Shield off. We'll have to wait until seasons 2 of Iron Fist, Luke Cage, or Heroes for Hire to determine if the apparently new and improved post disastrous water treading Agents of Shield is actually the better show. I basically dropped out of AoS after the second mid-season hiatus. Not sure how much my opinion matters, but, if you want me to drop your show, start taking pseudorandom breaks. I will find something to watch, and, most likely, never come back.
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Apr 22, 2017 23:02
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Samizdata posted:I basically dropped out of AoS after the second mid-season hiatus. Not sure how much my opinion matters, but, if you want me to drop your show, start taking pseudorandom breaks. I will find something to watch, and, most likely, never come back. Guy Goodbody posted:I'm having a lot of trouble picturing the Netflix versions of Luke Cage and Danny Rand being best friends
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Apr 22, 2017 23:29
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I wanted to buy Legion on iTunes but apparently FX put ads in every episode despite the season costing $19.99. gently caress. That. poo poo.
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Apr 22, 2017 23:32
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Well Danny won't be spending the entire Defender's season uncovering troubling things about his parent's murders and their business being used for crime and his close family friends' complicity in it while also repeatedly finding the people he trusts are people working with his sworn enemies, so he probably won't be quite as emo.
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Apr 22, 2017 23:39
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Yakmouth posted:So the people who like it watch it, and the people who don't watch NCIS instead. 
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Apr 23, 2017 00:35
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Okay, I'll bite; what are you watching Tuesday nights at 10?
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Apr 23, 2017 00:46
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Nothing I don't have cable like any normal person below the age of 60.
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Apr 23, 2017 00:50
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Well okay, fair enough. AoS doesn't steam on Netflix in Canada so I have to watch it live if I'm going to watch it at all. But the NCIS thing wasn't a crack at anyone -- it's the show's direct competitor in that timeslot.
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Apr 23, 2017 00:55
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So yeah, like I've been saying, either watch AOS in the later seasons where they start bringing in and directly referencing comic book villains like Absorbing Man (With ball and chain!) or don't. The show doesn't have the critical acclaim and power behind it something like multiple Primetime Emmy, Satellite, Golden Globe, Peabody Award, Critics' Choice Award,Television Critics Association Award winner Breaking Bad. Nor is it the Walking Dead or Game of Thrones so no one besides people already watching Marvel stuff are going to recommend it. Really, I just say this because it's not a loving abomination and it's not going to annihilate like Hurricane Katrina- and also because it's going to remain a topic since it's a Marvel show and this song and dance over 'Show bad! Eh, it's not terrible. It gets better'. got real tiring back when Jessica Jones had only been released for two days.
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Apr 23, 2017 01:10
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notthegoatseguy posted:Drunken master. I'm not saying it was some amazing fight choreography, but at least the drunk guy did a good job. There was also Kyle vs. ice cream scoop.
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Apr 23, 2017 01:59
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Like I said before, if you like Doctor Who there's a good chance you'll like Agents of Shield. They're both melodramatic and nonsensical with anvil-dropping plots of no subtlety and meandering plotting. If you like the characters then you appreciate the rest. I don't mean any of that as a knock on either show, people seem to genuinely enjoy that stuff and more power to them. But AoS and Doctor Who are not shows that you can enjoy if you prefer more serious and well plotted stuff. Of course if "well plotted" is your bag then you've suffered for the past 15 years at least in a wasteland of mediocrity. 
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Apr 23, 2017 03:09
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jng2058 posted:You sure about that? Yeah but The Clairvoyant is mentioned constantly through the season so it's not really the same
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Apr 23, 2017 03:34
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I feel since I had a hand in starting this AoS conversation, I should reiterate that my original contention was only that AoS is an alright, ok, and entertaining show that I've watched every episode of (for better and for worse), but I didn't understand the level of praise it gets in its thread on here and other threads. I mean its own thread is bound to be an echo chamber--I get that--but it seems more echo-y than most other show threads I follow and I find it curious.Yakmouth posted:Well okay, fair enough. AoS doesn't steam on Netflix in Canada so I have to watch it live if I'm going to watch it at all. It seemed like it was a crack the way it was phrased. If it wasn't then fine, but it really did seem like a "If you don't watch Agents Of Shield then you must be one of those people that watches NCIS." Which is why I responded the way I did. Honestly, I had no idea NCIS was on at the same time, because there's really no reason for me (and a lot of people) to know that if we don't even use cable and/or watch things live. Yakmouth posted:Okay, I'll bite; what are you watching Tuesday nights at 10? I'll bite back even though like I said above I don't have cable or watch things live, but if I did and had to make a choice between watching Agents Of Shield live and watching The Americans live ummm I'm definitely choosing The Americans. No question.
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Apr 23, 2017 04:40
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Chalk it up to bad wording on my part, then. I'm not here to antagonize anyone.
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Apr 23, 2017 04:56
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Longbaugh01 posted:I feel since I had a hand in starting this AoS conversation, I should reiterate that my original contention was only that AoS is an alright, ok, and entertaining show that I've watched every episode of (for better and for worse), but I didn't understand the level of praise it gets in its thread on here and other threads. I mean its own thread is bound to be an echo chamber--I get that--but it seems more echo-y than most other show threads I follow and I find it curious. It consistently hovers between 7/10 and 9/10. That's not "alright, ok", it's pretty loving good, especially for a scifi/action show.
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Apr 23, 2017 05:13
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Longbaugh01 posted:I'll bite back even though like I said above I don't have cable or watch things live, but if I did and had to make a choice between watching Agents Of Shield live and watching The Americans live ummm I'm definitely choosing The Americans. No question. Except The Americans repeats itself immediately after every new episode, so you can watch a new episode of AoS and follow it up with a new episode of The Americans and not miss a dang thing. 
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Apr 23, 2017 05:42
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enraged_camel posted:It consistently hovers between 7/10 and 9/10. That's not "alright, ok", it's pretty loving good, especially for a scifi/action show. That's your personal rating. For me, it's a solid 7 show. It never makes it beyond 8 (and it's rare when it hits 8) and it rarely drops below a 6 after the first season. It's consistently enjoyable but not excellent. I don't idolize the past or something either, there are a few solid 10 sci-fi/action shows around in my opinion as well as a few recent solid 10 comedies.
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Apr 23, 2017 06:03
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bloodychill posted:there are a few solid 10 sci-fi/action shows around like what
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Apr 23, 2017 06:39
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Yeah but The Clairvoyant is mentioned constantly through the season so it's not really the same So's Diamondback in Luke Cage. You can't exempt AoS with that excuse and still criticize Cage for playing it exactly the same way. If you want to criticize Iron Fist, well as I said, I haven't seen it so have at it. 
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Apr 23, 2017 06:53
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