|
I'm Big Borfo, make me Morfo
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 00:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 23:01 |
|
|
Oh Snapple! posted:It's ALMOST Human! Human Zero
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 01:03
|
|
|
Chapter 6 The Hillary camp believed they "checkmated" Bernie when he said on Meet that Press that he wasn't a capitalist, but a Democratic Socialist. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 01:12
|
|
|
The Hillary campaign was confused on how to deal with a guy who has consistent moral beliefs.
etalian has issued a correction as of 01:17 on Apr 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 01:13
|
|
|
nitpicky stuff: The book portrays the first primary debate as largely a good moment for Hillary, and only an okay moment for Bernie. Mainly because it buried the email issue. Also, Hillary's defense of capitalism for building the strong American Middle Class, in contrast with Bernie's opposition to it. That was supposed to be a good moment? What middle class? Maybe I've been lurking D&D too much with its semantics, but the idea that Bernie is "more liberal" than Hillary to be eyebrow raising. Liberals and conservatives destroyed genuine left wing politics for a generation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 01:27
|
|
|
I think I don't dislike Hillary per say as I more so dislike people who ran her campaign and crafted her entire image into a neoliberal masterpiece. The David Brock's, Robby Mook's and others are the real villains in this equation. People that seemingly refused to pivot their campaign more in line with the direction of the country. Their strategies were also incredibly dumb. People like Bill even having said as much. It was INSANELY frustrating to have these people, various Clinton supporters to tell Bernie supporters to pound salt while they openly embraced any neocon/never trumper that walked though Clinton HQ. There's a lot of people who sincerely wanted to help but were met with double birds, false accusations of racism/sexism, and just every line of bullshit in the world. The campaign itself really should have kicked a lot of these assholes out, hired a lot of Bernie supporters and used Bill, Obama in better ways. Kaine should have NEVER been VP, and there should have been some sort of ultimate show of unity between Bernie, Hillary after he conceded. (VP perhaps? I don't know). Barry Convex posted:If you read to the end, you'll find out that "it was all Russia/the FBI/BernieBros' fault" was a strategy deliberately concocted by Mook and Podesta just after the election to deflect blame. I don't think I've ever lost as much respect for fellow lefty's after this went down. It really was gross.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 01:27
|
|
|
Echo Chamber posted:nitpicky stuff: Bernie is not a liberal unlike the legions of rich centrist hillary men https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqNxne97ubc
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 01:28
|
|
|
etalian posted:Bernie is not a liberal unlike the legions of rich centrist hillary men But the original 60s one. Not everyone's dumb modern cover of it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 01:31
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:I think I don't dislike Hillary per say as I more so dislike people who ran her campaign and crafted her entire image into a neoliberal masterpiece. The buck stops with her.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
Montasque posted:Shattered is a pretty good read. On chapter six right now, and it starts with a great story: We've installed a new emotion chip in her, she should be good to go! "BEEP BOOP BEEP, I HAVE FEELINGS, BEEP BOOP BEEP, I AM HUMANLIKE"
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 01:42
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:It was INSANELY frustrating to have these people, various Clinton supporters to tell Bernie supporters to pound salt while they openly embraced any neocon/never trumper that walked though Clinton HQ. I like when their thread title was, "If you don't like her, don't vote for her." Whoops!
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 01:53
|
|
|
Accretionist posted:I like when their thread title was, "If you don't like her, don't vote for her." an apt thread title since lol who cares who goons vote for
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 02:21
|
|
|
Accretionist posted:I like when their thread title was, "If you don't like her, don't vote for her." Around 120k less votes in Milwaukee than Obama lol Reminder that the the whole election was decided in the rust belt states by around 100k votes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 02:28
|
|
|
"but she won the popular vote! but she won the popular vote" i continue to insist as nonwhites voting is made illegal
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 02:47
|
|
|
Alright, my listen is now getting into the first open attacks at Bernie from the Hill camp, which started with an attack from Chelsea. I finally realized I'm going to relive the worst moments of the Bernie vs. Hillary fight, and it probably won't end until a few chapters. This poo poo was grim then. As big they hosed up, I try to sit through this story on some level empathizing with some of Hillary's staffers. But everything from Super Tuesday to the convention was just poo poo, save Michigan. The word "Berniebro" hasn't been uttered in this narrative yet, but it probably will soon. This audiobook is going to get a lot harder to sit through now. Echo Chamber has issued a correction as of 03:29 on Apr 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 03:09
|
|
|
The primary flipped me from slightly positive on centrist Democrats to seeing them as the enemy. "Pragmatism," is short-hand for, "be a moderate Republican who's okay with women and minorities in the abstract." "Realistic/mature," is coded language for believing inequality is bad but the causes... the causes are very good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 03:25
|
|
|
Yeah, it's just like Krugman pointed out "serious," "adult," "responsible," etc are always used as codewords for austerity policies. It's not that they're actually proven to be the right choice it's that they're the favored policies of DC elites so if you oppose them you must be some sort of child. Same thing with being anti-war, the "bipartisan foreign policy establishment" thinks it's absurd to not like endless neocon regime change wars so if you oppose that you must be simply naive and uninformed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 03:31
|
|
|
Accretionist posted:The primary flipped me from slightly positive on centrist Democrats to seeing them as the enemy. My view is this. Republicans are always going to exist, and they're always to be on the side of business. That's fine. That's the nature of the beat. There's nothing wrong with having them as a balancing force. The problem is...there's no counter balance to them. What you have is exactly like you said. Moderate Republicans Vs. Conservative Republicans. Ultimately the stumbling block is not with the Ted Cruz's of the world, but rather people supposedly on our side of the aisle who are more than willing to accept the status quo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 03:32
|
|
|
Shear Modulus posted:"but she won the popular vote! but she won the popular vote" i continue to insist as nonwhites voting is made illegal the people really angry about this arent doing much to abolish the electoral college right now. now would be a good start.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 03:46
|
|
|
anime was right posted:the people really angry about this arent doing much to abolish the electoral college right now. now would be a good start. It was never cool.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 03:50
|
|
|
MaxxBot posted:Yeah, it's just like Krugman pointed out "serious," "adult," "responsible," etc are always used as codewords for austerity policies. It's not that they're actually proven to be the right choice it's that they're the favored policies of DC elites so if you oppose them you must be some sort of child. Same thing with being anti-war, the "bipartisan foreign policy establishment" thinks it's absurd to not like endless neocon regime change wars so if you oppose that you must be simply naive and uninformed. yeah and then krugman unironically did the exact same thing he'd been mad at republicans for during the primary when arguing against bernie's medicare for all or free college proposals lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 03:53
|
|
|
krugman went full retard attacking bernie http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-the-banks-should-be-broken-up-20160408
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 04:42
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:There's nothing wrong with having them as a balancing force. Politics doesn't need "balance" you just need to win.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 04:44
|
|
|
I;m still bernie or bust actually
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 04:45
|
|
|
Modest Mao posted:I;m still bernie or bust actually This but buttigieg unironically
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 04:46
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:Politics doesn't need "balance" you just need to win. its weird how stokholm syndrome america is with its parties like people in this thread can't even describe the democratic party moving into 100% sell out mode, except to call them republicans which makes the republicans... double republicans or more right republicans or something. socialist and fascist, right and left, conservative and liberal, red and blue, these words are subsumed by a party now and no longer describe the real world actually America is failing and washington / the elite would rather allow everything to fall to rubble so long as they are king of the rubble heap than see people prosper if it means they only get a normal sized yacht Modest Mao has issued a correction as of 04:55 on Apr 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 04:50
|
|
|
I'm Wolverine
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 04:51
|
|
|
That DICK! posted:I'm Wolverine Mr. Jackman the screening is already over
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 04:52
|
|
|
logikv9 posted:Mr. Jackman the screening is already over He can't help, as by this iteration of the character he's so musclebound he cannot turn around without considerable assistance.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 05:13
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:I think I don't dislike Hillary per say as I more so dislike people who ran her campaign and crafted her entire image into a neoliberal masterpiece. Hillary's husband and supporters are both way worse than her but she's still got a lot to answer for.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 05:20
|
|
|
Modest Mao posted:its weird how stokholm syndrome america is with its parties like It's more like Americans think of politics as a dysfunctional family, where Democrats are the mommy and Republicans are the daddy. Sometimes you might get some tough love from daddy, but he really wants what's best for you. Every good family needs a mommy and daddy, right? So of course there needs to be one party to counterbalance the parenting style of the other. It's basically infantile is what I'm getting at.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 05:29
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:Politics doesn't need "balance" you just need to win. Eh, I'm an idiot that kinda likes some elements of Capitalism. I just don't think the form we have of it now is very good, and it's very predatory. It needs to be regulated, workers need to be protected, banks need to be broken up, etc. Anecdotally? I'll drive on my way to work and think it's cool there's so many restaurants, businesses and such. there's some pretty cool stuff we've gotten as a society, country. But...man..the  worker needs a loving raise. The dude slinging hamburgers at Mickey D's needs the ability to live off his paycheck without having to resort to foodstamps, and such.I feel like an rear end in a top hat saying that stuff because a lot of the idiot politicians have made "Capitalism" a very dirty concept via their actions/inaction's. It really isn't. We really need a party that represents and protects workers though. Jeb! Repetition posted:Hillary's husband and supporters are both way worse than her but she's still got a lot to answer for. Yeah, I mean she did call the shots on this and her arrogance really led to the Trump presidency.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 05:36
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:Eh, I'm an idiot  quote:I just don't think the form we have of it now is very good, and it's very predatory. It needs to be regulated, workers need to be protected, banks need to be broken up, etc. That's nice and all, but even a well regulated capitalist state has to draw in superprofits from abroad if the rate of profit can't be guaranteed domestically. Even at the height of the American welfare state, the United States was getting millions of people killed just so we could guarantee access to foreign markets and labor. Anyway, more relevant to the thread: https://twitter.com/MattBruenig/status/856002248798810113
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 05:40
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:
Banana Republics, correct? (Sad I only really learned about those via "Drunk History". Our education system needs to really be better). I do think that it feels like a lot of causes for unions, a liveable wage and other causes meet a grave yard within the current version of the DNC. BTW, I have taken political spectrum quizzes and they always put me with DSA for some reason. Are they relatively moderate or what is their story?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 05:47
|
|
|
holy poo poo
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 05:51
|
|
|
To be fair, 9/11 really did gently caress everyone's minds. Everyone was rallying around the flag. Even Kucinich and Bernie voted for the Afghan war. The question of Iraq was still a bit further away. But yeah, Chelsea, in her few appearances, doesn't come off well in the book so far.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 05:55
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:Banana Republics, correct? (Sad I only really learned about those via "Drunk History". Our education system needs to really be better). "Banana republic" is usually reserved for the extreme case of countries run by a military junta in partnership with a multinational corporation, but the pattern of forcing open foreign markets or impressing slaves with military means goes back as far as capitalism itself.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 06:01
|
|
|
Hello. My memories of specific macro theory is weak but I did actually major in economics (though I focused on policy and econometrics). Inflation is a good and necessary thing for an economy because it acts as a penalty to hoarding cash. Mild inflation helps money move through the system instead of accumulating in a bank or under some guy's mattress. Think about it like this: In a zero inflation economy it is preferable to hold some zero risk cash reserves rather than investing everything, just for safety. That cash and all its possible expansion through fractional reserve banking has effectively left the economy; although it could pop back in at any time and disrupt prices. All of that can lead to economic stagnation and a credit crunch. In a hyper inflation economy the future value of cash is basically zero so every dollar must be consumed immediately (any investment would have to have a return higher than inflation, so no investments either), meaning no savings to generate credit from. Mild inflation though encourages investment where the return is better than the rate of inflation and keeps all the money moving, which can smooth out bubbles. As long as wages increase along with the price level mild inflation doesn't damage working class purchasing power too much, while theoretically promoting investment in capital. Guess what isn't true in America? Also, inflation theoretically benefits debtors because they get to pay back their debt with inflated money. In reality though expected inflation is usually priced into interest rates so debtors don't benefit unless they have fixed rate interest and actual inflation was higher than expected. But if actual inflation exceeds expected inflation it benefits debtors at the expense of creditors. So, can anyone guess what the overriding policy of the Federal Reserve has been for the last few decades, given that higher than expected inflation hurts creditors and penalizes cash hoarding?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 06:21
|
|
|
Echo Chamber posted:To be fair, 9/11 really did gently caress everyone's minds. Everyone was rallying around the flag. Even Kucinich and Bernie voted for the Afghan war. There's a big leap from being pro-war to actively going out and heckling anti-war demonstrators in their own country.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 06:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 23:01 |
|
|
Chelsea Clinton is also friends with Ivanka Trump.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2017 06:29
|
|
