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PostNouveau posted:Alright, so all this "Macedonian teenagers are going to hijack your Internet-connected car on the freeway and hold you ransom for bitcoins" stuff is malarkey. There's not a car in the world that will keep going when the brake is engaged. If you can't think of a way that manipulation of the controls of your car could be used maliciously, then I think you're just not trying hard enough.
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Apr 23, 2017 11:28
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MrYenko posted:If you can't think of a way that manipulation of the controls of your car could be used maliciously, then I think you're just not trying hard enough. Maliciously, sure, but not as a kidnapping method. It might be a viable way to murder someone, but there won't be hackers targeting random people for money.
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Apr 23, 2017 11:33
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PostNouveau posted:Maliciously, sure, but not as a kidnapping method. It might be a viable way to murder someone, but there won't be hackers targeting random people for money. I don't think that was ever seriously proposed, here. I think the widest use for this sort of thing would be insurance fraud, personally.
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Apr 23, 2017 11:35
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MrYenko posted:I don't think that was ever seriously proposed, here. violent sex idiot posted:yeah its not like there's any value in someone controlling your brakes to demand money from you right. no one would threaten someone with violence for money
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Apr 23, 2017 11:39
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PostNouveau posted:Alright, so all this "Macedonian teenagers are going to hijack your Internet-connected car on the freeway and hold you ransom for bitcoins" stuff is malarkey. There's not a car in the world that will keep going when the brake is engaged. If the throttle is stuck full on, then the brake won't hold the car at all.
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Apr 23, 2017 11:44
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A full emergency brake lock once a vehicle exceeds 70mph would be completely harmless.
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Apr 23, 2017 12:13
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Brake systems have been computerized since the 70s, incidentally. You can totally prevent the brakes from operating if you have full control over the computer that runs the ABS system.
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Apr 23, 2017 12:37
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PostNouveau posted:Isn't the brake on a car just the same physical thing it always was though? Like there might be a program that would allow automatic braking, but it wouldn't ever interfere with the driver's ability to step on the brake and stop the car? I'd heard all those Toyota crashes were likely driver error after it was all said and done. PostNouveau posted:Alright, so all this "Macedonian teenagers are going to hijack your Internet-connected car on the freeway and hold you ransom for bitcoins" stuff is malarkey. There's not a car in the world that will keep going when the brake is engaged. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 12:52
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evil_bunnY posted:Modern cars are perfectly capable of cooking its brakes. There's a reason the number one track day upgrade is a big brake kit. Yeah it sounds like brake pedals don't actually have the physical connections anymore after all? Seems like an awful idea.
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Apr 23, 2017 12:59
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Megabound posted:A Vision Based Forced Landing Site Selection System for an Autonomous UAV Did you even glance at that paper? A high failure rate neural network based approach, being run on the ground on archived aerial footage. So, not realtime, not a certifiable approach, and for unmanned controlled crashes at best. The gap between that paper and a safe autonomous landing is so much more that 'a lot of work'. Blitter fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 13:18
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^^^ The paper is from 2005. The gap between it and current state of the art is even bigger, just in the other direction. PostNouveau posted:Yeah it sounds like brake pedals don't actually have the physical connections anymore after all? Seems like an awful idea.
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Apr 23, 2017 13:24
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PostNouveau posted:Yeah it sounds like brake pedals don't actually have the physical connections anymore after all? Seems like an awful idea. They are still connected, but the actual braking force you can apply with the pedal itself is minimal without a brake booster. ABS and co. also have bypass valves that could be hosed with.
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Apr 23, 2017 13:25
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I love this and I hope their SCAC is SALA.
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Apr 23, 2017 13:32
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How would these hackers even get their money? I'd imagine most/all victims would crash before they ever got to their phones to make a transfer.
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Apr 23, 2017 13:51
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chitoryu12 posted:How would these hackers even get their money? I'd imagine most/all victims would crash before they ever got to their phones to make a transfer. You crash two cars and kill/injure 2 people. Huge media shitstorm follows for months Then you threaten a bunch of people that you will do it to them if they don't pay up. You wouldn't even need to be able to technically do it - simply engage the door locks, make the engine rev a few times and then call them through Onstar.
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Apr 23, 2017 14:05
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Speed 3?
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Apr 23, 2017 14:09
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The goon that couldn't slow down.
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Apr 23, 2017 14:10
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chitoryu12 posted:How would these hackers even get their money? I'd imagine most/all victims would crash before they ever got to their phones to make a transfer. Lie in wait at a cloverleaf and hack approaching cars. Scare the gently caress out of the driver. Tell them to throw out their spare change as they pass the cloverleaf. Pick up the change and profit.
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Apr 23, 2017 14:20
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PostNouveau posted:Isn't the brake on a car just the same physical thing it always was though? Like there might be a program that would allow automatic braking, but it wouldn't ever interfere with the driver's ability to step on the brake and stop the car? I'd heard all those Toyota crashes were likely driver error after it was all said and done. If by "driver error" you mean "the brakes stop working under certain scenarios and only reset and start working again if you stop pressing them" then yes
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Apr 23, 2017 14:43
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chitoryu12 posted:How would these hackers even get their money? I'd imagine most/all victims would crash before they ever got to their phones to make a transfer. i reckon they'd operate like ransomware hackers and disable the car entirely until you pay up rather than try to kill you
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Apr 23, 2017 15:07
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spankmeister posted:If the throttle is stuck full on, then the brake won't hold the car at all. That's absolutely false. The brakes exert a hell of a lot more torque than WOT does. What has occasionally happened in a stuck throttle condition is that the driver doesn't fully apply the brakes at first, and by the time he does so they've overheated and lost braking ability. But if your throttle sticks wide open and you push the brake pedal to the floor, you're going to stop. It won't even be a contest.
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Apr 23, 2017 15:53
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Did ya'll forget that the CIA has already killed a dude via accessing his vehicles controls through it's internet capable system? It was a thing last year.
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Apr 23, 2017 15:55
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PostNouveau posted:Isn't the brake on a car just the same physical thing it always was though? Like there might be a program that would allow automatic braking, but it wouldn't ever interfere with the driver's ability to step on the brake and stop the car? I'd heard all those Toyota crashes were likely driver error after it was all said and done. Driver error and "I want in on the fat payouts."
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Apr 23, 2017 16:04
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If you can find the data on "victims" of the Toyota unintended acceleration fiasco, they're almost all over 60. It was just olds hitting the wrong pedal all along.
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Apr 23, 2017 16:16
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FuturePastNow posted:If you can find the data on "victims" of the Toyota unintended acceleration fiasco, they're almost all over 60. 89 people died
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Apr 23, 2017 16:17
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Spatial posted:This is not a joke. https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/ Cars will get treated like any other unsecured PC or IoT device that never get updates. Send 2 Bitcoins to this address if you want your car's accelerator to work. Another .5 Bitcoins if you want the radio to stop pumping out russian folk music at full volume. (BTW, you car is also helping to ddos a twitch streamer right now.)
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Apr 23, 2017 16:18
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PostNouveau posted:Yeah it sounds like brake pedals don't actually have the physical connections anymore after all? Seems like an awful idea.
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Apr 23, 2017 16:21
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Improbable Lobster posted:If by "driver error" you mean "the brakes stop working under certain scenarios and only reset and start working again if you stop pressing them" then yes Got a source on this one? There have been a lot of electronic failures hypothesized, but I'm not aware of anything having ever been proven to be possible other than the simple and stupid answers like the floor mat wedging the gas pedal and the driver just being an idiot with their foot on the wrong pedal.
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Apr 23, 2017 16:22
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FuturePastNow posted:If you can find the data on "victims" of the Toyota unintended acceleration fiasco, they're almost all over 60. There were a couple cases where the floor mats tangled with the pedal, but yeah, it was mostly user error. We went through the exact same thing with the Audi 5000 in the mid-80s, and it was the same thing: olds mashing the wrong pedal. In fairness this time around it was complicated by Toyota's lovely AI. Since instead of a key, a ubiquitous interface that absolutely everyone on the planet understands, they decided to go with a pushbutton starter. If you're sitting stopped, and your car's running, you push the button to turn it off. But since you don't want people accidentally turning their car off at 70mph if they shift in their seat and bump the button or something, what you do is you make the switch modal, without telling anyone (except in the user manual, and who reads that?): if the car's in motion, you have to push the button and hold it in for a few seconds. So the number two thing on the "stuck throttle" checklist, turn the car off, was being attempted by panicky people who'd just push the button and have nothing happen. The investigation found that there were a few cases where the root cause were the floor mats getting entangled in the pedals.
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Apr 23, 2017 16:25
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wolrah posted:Got a source on this one? There have been a lot of electronic failures hypothesized, but I'm not aware of anything having ever been proven to be possible other than the simple and stupid answers like the floor mat wedging the gas pedal and the driver just being an idiot with their foot on the wrong pedal. I might be thinking of a different Toyota recall
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Apr 23, 2017 16:26
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Wall Balls posted:i reckon they'd operate like ransomware hackers and disable the car entirely until you pay up rather than try to kill you
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Apr 23, 2017 16:42
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Azathoth posted:Seems like it's almost inevitable unless auto manufacturers do the smart thing and not allow OTA updates to the software that controls the car. 
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Apr 23, 2017 16:58
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This derail sucks and you guys have killed this thread.
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Apr 23, 2017 17:00
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Nocheez posted:This derail sucks and you guys have killed this thread. Sorry boys, thread ain't up to code. CLOSE 'EM DOWN!
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Apr 23, 2017 17:17
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Improbable Lobster posted:89 people died Baby boomers aren't people and deserve death
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Apr 23, 2017 17:18
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Nocheez posted:This derail sucks and you guys have killed this thread. Once we get self posting message boards we won't have to worry about thread derails.
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Apr 23, 2017 17:32
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Manual transmission supremacy. Get on my level shitlords.
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Apr 23, 2017 17:43
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i think it's very funny that goons will nitpick incredibly unlikely scenarios to death and then say "AND THE MANUFACTURERS WILL NEVER FIX IT!" if a bunch of ordinary peoples cars started getting hacked, you can bet there would be a recall the likes of which has never been seen before. did you guys forget about the Takata airbag recall already? How about frame rust issues on Toyota trucks? Every Toyota dealership in the Northeast has a guy on staff that exclusively does frame swaps. Also, my car gets software updates when needed so I'm not sure why people are saying they never get done. They don't add on entirely new OS's, but they can get little software fixes. Phanatic posted:There were a couple cases where the floor mats tangled with the pedal, but yeah, it was mostly user error. We went through the exact same thing with the Audi 5000 in the mid-80s, and it was the same thing: olds mashing the wrong pedal. UI, but yea the issue really comes down to people buying a car with a different driver interface and not reading the manual. There is method to the Prius's design madness but I think it was kind of foolish to make it as esoteric to old people as they did. If you'd been driving cars for 50 years, the Prius was different enough to cause confusion. But the acceleration issues were all user error. Tumble fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 17:59
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Deeply unfortunate that the public takeaway from Toyota's criminally negligent software design seems to be "user error". That's their legal department's defence that you're mistaking for truth. Don't know why you would believe them. In court, the software was examined by an embedded software expert. His conclusion, having examined their software for 20 months, was that the "unintended acceleration" was not only a possible cause but definitely the cause. Why, because they totally hosed up every possible aspect of their software. It was embarrassingly and shockingly bad work throughout, with every single steroeotypically terrible design choice you can imagine. Untestable, unmaintainable spaghetti code. No MISRA compliance. Thousands of warnings in released code. Unintended memory corruption. No ECC on the hardware. Thread safety violations. A total lack of redundancy. 11,000 global variables. This is the kind of joke level garbage we embedded software people laugh about at lunch, except this time it was linked to whether people lived or die. Toyota hosed up their software and it killed people, that is the undeniable truth.
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Apr 23, 2017 18:20
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Holy loving poo poo you lot are gooning the gently caress out of this thread. Can we get back to gifs of dumb asses on work sites please?
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