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Ehud
Sep 19, 2003

football.

"Drew Brees? Yah right. When's the last time you saw a good QB from Purdue? Len Dawson? Bob Griese?"

I could be an NFL exec

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Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010

Bad, very bad!

Ehud posted:

"Drew Brees? Yah right. When's the last time you saw a good QB from Purdue? Len Dawson? Bob Griese?"

I could be an NFL exec

I don't care if Jim Everett's biggest highlight is breaking the nose of some jackass radio guy I'm still mad you didn't include him here.

Also wherever Sophia is she's mad you didn't include Kyle Orton.

troofs
Feb 28, 2011

The better Manning.
I really wish this year was better for QBs because I think a lot of these guys would be good potential-type picks in the 3rd-4th or whatever but all the ones I like will be long gone by the time I'd be comfortable with the giants drafting them. Everybody seems to hate Kaaya so maybe he'll drop and Daltos will be right.

FizFashizzle
Mar 30, 2005







That fucker forgot Steve Beuerlein.

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌

Ehud posted:

Also, Notre Dame QB's haven't been good in a while, therefore Kizer must stink, too!!"

That sounds like something a fan would say. It's so stupid and such a dumb, lazy approach to evaluating a player.

Yeah I take a lot of scouting with a grain of salt. For instance that Deshaun Watson blurb was raving about his leadership but kept glossing over how he throws terrible passes and makes boneheaded plays. Plus the three white WR comparison with Cooper Kupp.

But in all honesty if JuJu busts I'm ready to write off every future USC receiver from now until the end of time.

Gumbel2Gumbel
Apr 28, 2010

Doltos posted:

Yeah I take a lot of scouting with a grain of salt. For instance that Deshaun Watson blurb was raving about his leadership but kept glossing over how he throws terrible passes and makes boneheaded plays. Plus the three white WR comparison with Cooper Kupp.

But in all honesty if JuJu busts I'm ready to write off every future USC receiver from now until the end of time.

Hey, Nelson Agholor just needs to run better routes, get more separation, get stronger, and learn how to catch this year!

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World
I like how they can't stop talking about how Kaaya has dead eyes and creeps everyone out.

fsif
Jul 18, 2003

This draft needs more Chad Kelly chatter.

Sataere
Jul 20, 2005


Step 1: Start fight
Step 2: Attack straw man
Step 3: REPEAT

Do not engage with me



sean10mm posted:

I like how they can't stop talking about how Kaaya has dead eyes and creeps everyone out.

I would think that'd be a plus. Nobody complains about Belicheck's dead eyes when he's bringing home championships.

Is this QB class really deep compared to previous years, just lacking in overall top talent? I swear, I like this class more than last years, but I feel crazy because apparently I am the only one.

I get why people could love the top seven guys, but they all scare the gently caress out if me.

Tempest_56
Mar 14, 2009

fsif posted:

This draft needs more Chad Kelly chatter.

No, it doesn't. I have this horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach that the Bills are gonna draft him in the 2nd, because Whaley's an idiot and the idea of being related to Jim Kelly is just a dumb enough marketing thing to make it plausible.

Diva Cupcake
Aug 15, 2005

Another report echoing Albright.

https://twitter.com/greggabe/status/856186322305863681

ozymandius1024
Mar 15, 2006

You don't yank on the Spine of God

How should I feel about that?

How much does he suck?

Gumbel2Gumbel
Apr 28, 2010

ozymandius1024 posted:

How should I feel about that?

How much does he suck?

Taking a runningback who bench presses like me is a bad pick.

Edit:. Actually his college strength and conditioning program doesn't care about bench press and is using different exercises and metrics. Interesting!

Gumbel2Gumbel fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Apr 23, 2017

FizFashizzle
Mar 30, 2005







ozymandius1024 posted:

How should I feel about that?

How much does he suck?

I'll kill you if you kill me.

TheFlyingLlama
Jan 2, 2013

You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and be a llama?



christ. It took me weeks to get okay with the idea of using a top 10 pick on a good runningback, how am I supposed to deal with taking a poo poo one?

ozymandius1024
Mar 15, 2006

You don't yank on the Spine of God

FizFashizzle posted:

I'll kill you if you kill me.

God loving damnit

Intruder
Mar 5, 2003

I got a taste for blown saves

quote:

“He’s a pure millennial,” said a third scout. “He’s caught up in being more of a quarterback image than being a quarterback.

lol

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon

Nap Ghost
I always find these hot takes hilarious at the things they come up with to describe the players

Sataere
Jul 20, 2005


Step 1: Start fight
Step 2: Attack straw man
Step 3: REPEAT

Do not engage with me




The scout was in a rocking chair on his porch while saying this.

Intruder
Mar 5, 2003

I got a taste for blown saves
Kizer has a great arm, poinpoint accuracy, and is extremely intelligent, but.... eh, millenial

Mulaney Power Move
Dec 30, 2004

so does that mean he's trying his best to be an ideal quarterback but his idea of ideal is wrong? is that what that's supposed to mean?

ragle
Nov 1, 2009
https://twitter.com/pinakk12/status/856222215938953218

TheFlyingLlama
Jan 2, 2013

You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and be a llama?



it means that he's a prima dona who wants to be a quarterback for all the wrong reasons, and he cares more about the fame than the game.

so some of the same poo poo cam got hit with back before he got drafted

Raku
Nov 7, 2012

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

Roll Tide

TheFlyingLlama posted:

it means that he's a prima dona who wants to be a quarterback for all the wrong reasons, and he cares more about the fame than the game.

so some of the same poo poo cam got hit with back before he got drafted

Sounds like young Russell Wilson when he would practice giving endorsements

Ches Neckbeard
Dec 3, 2005

You're all garbage, back up the truck BACK IT UP!
Split time with a lovely QB in 2015 because he sucks and got benched multiple times in 2016 because again he sucks. Kizer sucks.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Doltos posted:

Yeah I take a lot of scouting with a grain of salt. For instance that Deshaun Watson blurb was raving about his leadership but kept glossing over how he throws terrible passes and makes boneheaded plays. Plus the three white WR comparison with Cooper Kupp.

But in all honesty if JuJu busts I'm ready to write off every future USC receiver from now until the end of time.

the Watson stuff is weird because he had a ton of picks yet torched bamas defense in both times, so I dunno if he was just funslinging in the regular season or what because he looked incredible against a bunch of NFL prospects both times

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌

Sataere posted:

Is this QB class really deep compared to previous years, just lacking in overall top talent? I swear, I like this class more than last years, but I feel crazy because apparently I am the only one.

I get why people could love the top seven guys, but they all scare the gently caress out if me.

Bruce Arians commented that this was one of the best QB classes since 04. I'm just not seeing it.

This QB class just has too many question marks across the board. There's potential for franchise guys out there

mastershakeman posted:

the Watson stuff is weird because he had a ton of picks yet torched bamas defense in both times, so I dunno if he was just funslinging in the regular season or what because he looked incredible against a bunch of NFL prospects both times

Clemson's a recruiting power house since Dabo got there and he also has a ton of talent even from walk on guys like Renfrow. His offense this year was basically huck it up to Mike Williams or Leggett or throw a dart to Renfrow off a play action. Gallman's a lovely NFL back but he's still a huge guy and him and Feaster tired out defenses. I'm willing to write off Watson's production as a product of the system.

His mechanics are terrible too. He has flashes where he'll plant his feet and deliver a bullet but then it just seems he loses his muscle memory throughout the game. He'll make terrible off balance throws, have happy feet in the pocket, and just lose the ability to place the ball for long stretches of time. That just reeks of a second-third round QB that's going to have to sit for a while, not a future #1 overall pick. I could probably say the same of every QB this year too.

JT Jag
Aug 30, 2009

#1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

quote:

“He’s a pure millennial,” said a third scout. “He’s caught up in being more of a quarterback image than being a quarterback.
Imagine I'm doing the jack-off hand motion in the air right now.

FizFashizzle
Mar 30, 2005







JT Jag posted:

Imagine I'm doing the jack-off hand motion in the air right now.

youre a jags fan i just imagine that whenever you post.

Intruder
Mar 5, 2003

I got a taste for blown saves

FizFashizzle posted:

youre a jags fan i just imagine that whenever you post.

gently caress

JT Jag
Aug 30, 2009

#1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

FizFashizzle posted:

youre a jags fan i just imagine that whenever you post.
This reads like a burn but it doesn't quite hit home. Good structure tho, 7/10

JT Jag
Aug 30, 2009

#1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

JT Jag posted:

This reads like a burn but it doesn't quite hit home. Good structure tho, 7/10
You know what else has good structure but doesn't quite hit home

My diiiiick

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


You know when everyone goes "Can't miss prospect!! Ignore these flaws!!" and it probably means they're a bust, especially if they're DL or QB?

All these pundits and scouts are going "Kizer is a bust!! Ignore his strengths!!" and I think he's probably gonna be successful.

I'm not quite sure whether this means I'm being contrarian, or if it's because I've seen too many top 10 Can't-Miss guys end up busting.

No Irish Need Imply
Nov 30, 2008
How many Can't Miss guys have busted recently?

Probably Magic
Oct 9, 2012

Looking cute, feeling cute.

SKULL.GIF posted:

You know when everyone goes "Can't miss prospect!! Ignore these flaws!!" and it probably means they're a bust, especially if they're DL or QB?

All these pundits and scouts are going "Kizer is a bust!! Ignore his strengths!!" and I think he's probably gonna be successful.

I'm not quite sure whether this means I'm being contrarian, or if it's because I've seen too many top 10 Can't-Miss guys end up busting.

I dunno, EJ Manuel had that going, and turned out his detractors were wise. I don't really trust Chip Kelly QBs.

Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010

Bad, very bad!

No Irish Need Imply posted:

How many Can't Miss guys have busted recently?

I don't know, Greg Robinson maybe?

Clowney if you're an idiot.

a neat cape
Feb 22, 2007

Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!

Grittybeard posted:

I don't know, Greg Robinson maybe?

Clowney if you're an idiot.

Let's all remember Aaron Curry

Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010

Bad, very bad!

a neat cape posted:

Let's all remember Aaron Curry

Yeah that's the go to can't miss guy for sure, but that was 8 years ago now.

Time flies, huh?

I guess Sammy Watkins might count but that's another guy who's really good when he's healthy. I don't know, I put injury guys in a different category than busts.

e: Never mind Watkins is fine other than last year, I remember him missing a lot more games than he did.

Grittybeard fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Apr 24, 2017

OSheaman
May 27, 2004

Heavy Fucking Metal
Fun Shoe
http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2017/04/23/mcginn-nfl-draft-dl-character-crapshoot-line/100738052/

quote:

“The type of player who could make your draft or break your heart. Could be the best defensive lineman in the draft if he stays focused and works hard.”

The late Joel Buchsbaum, the first and perhaps still the best of the draftniks, wrote that about Albert Haynesworth 15 years ago when the defensive tackle was coming out of the University of Tennessee.

Certainly those words would apply this year to Malik McDowell, the versatile defensive lineman from Michigan State, and edge rusher Tim Williams of Alabama.

“Taking character out of the equation, McDowell should be the second pick in the draft,” an executive in personnel for an AFC team said. “If anybody tells you differently, they’re playing possum.

“If Williams was a great kid he could get in the first round. He’s in the top five as a pass rusher in this draft.”

McDowell isn’t expected to be a strong consideration for teams until the middle of the first round because of his stunning laziness last season, both in games and practice.

Williams ranks as a total wild card in the draft because of his admitted failed drug tests, overall attitude and poor training habits.

Defensive line has always been a crapshoot. McDowell and Williams join so many others through the years as quintessential boom or bust prospects.

Of 16 personnel people asked by the Journal Sentinel to identify the leading defensive lineman with the best chance to fail, McDowell drew half the votes (eight) and Williams was second with four.

Caleb Brantley was named by a pair of scouts while two players projected as linebackers by 3-4 teams, Derek Barnett and Takk McKinley, each had one mention.

Before visiting East Lansing last season, one evaluator studied McDowell off 2015 tape and was excited to watch live what he thought he would be the top defensive lineman in the draft.

What he saw was McDowell disappearing in games by early October and showing up late and then lollygagging at practice. He still isn’t quite sure why McDowell never showed a lack of effort in 2015 and then quit playing hard in 2016.

A once-promising season for the Spartans turned into a 3-9 debacle. The talented player in the No. 4 jersey declared a year early after contributing merely 34 tackles and 1 ½ sacks in his season shortened to nine games by an ankle injury.

“Worst interview in our room at the combine,” one NFL personnel man said. “Completely sucked the life out of the room. He’s everything that’s wrong with the modern athlete.

“Been entitled his whole life. Not a worker. Doesn’t practice. Asks to be taken out of games all the time. Rolls his ankle and you’d think he had three compound fractures the way that he reacts. It’s hard enough with guys that aren’t (expletive).”

As poorly as McDowell played and handled himself at the combine, he might slide to the second round.

“This guy is an undisciplined and indifferent kind of a player,” said an evaluator from an NFC team. “He’s so gifted but he’s kind of his own man. You’d have to have a coach that could relate to him, that he trusted. If you did the guy could be as good as these other guys.”

Defensive end Myles Garrett, defensive tackle Jonathan Allen and versatile Solomon Thomas are the mainstays in a solid class of defensive linemen. They’re where McDowell could have been if he had tried harder in 2016.

In the Journal Sentinel’s positional polls, evaluators were asked to rank their top five players, with five points assigned to a first-place vote and so forth. No restrictions were placed on the players scouts could choose from other than players couldn’t also be voted for in the linebacker polls.

Nine scouts represented teams with 4-3 base defenses and six represented 3-4 teams.

Here were the results:

Defensive end in a 3-4: Jonathan Allen, 27 points (four firsts); Solomon Thomas, 20 (one); Chris Wormley, 18; Malik McDowell, nine (one); Taco Charlton, seven; Tanoh Kpassagnon, four; Montravious Adams and Eddie Vanderdoes, two, and Nazair Jones, one.

Nose tackle in a 3-4: Dalvin Tomlinson, 25 (five firsts); Larry Ogunjobi, 10; Nazair Jones and Elijah Qualls, seven; Davon Godchaux, Jaleel Johnson and D.J. Jones, six; Caleb Brantley and Treyvon Hester, five; McDowell and Vincent Taylor, four; Ryan Glasgow and Stevie Tu’ikolovatu, two, and Vanderdoes, one.

Defensive end in a 4-3: Myles Garrett, 44 (eight firsts); Charles Harris, 22; Derek Barnett, 15; Thomas, 13 (one); Charlton, 11; Takk McKinley, 10½; Jordan Willis, 8½; McDowell, four; Tarell Basham, three; Kpassagnon, two, and Carl Lawson and Tim Williams, one.

Defensive tackle in a 4-3: Allen, 40 (four firsts); Thomas, 29 (five); McDowell, 16; Brantley, 13; Tomlinson and Wormley, seven; Adams and Vanderdoes, five; Johnson, four; Ogunjobi and DeMarcus Walker, three; Nazair Jones, two, and Qualls, one.

At the combine, a reporter asked Alabama’s Williams if had failed any drug tests.

“Oh, yeah, I have failed some,” replied Williams. “I’m a young player. I made decisions that I grew from. It’s all about being a man, owning up to your situations, owning up to your mistakes.

“I’m obviously behind the 8-ball. So I’m here to prove not only to myself but to every organization that if they take me, they’re going to get the best player here.”

Problem for Williams is that some executives say they simply don’t trust him and fear he’s headed for suspension related to the league’s substance-abuse policy.

“He’s not going to quit smoking,” said one evaluator. “There’s no remorse. He’s going to get caught.”

Williams has often been compared to Bruce Irvin, the 15th pick in the 2012 draft by Seattle who also was undersized and entered the draft with merely six career starts (Williams had two).

In other draft-room conversations, veteran evaluators have even brought up Lawrence Taylor, the Hall of Fame linebacker with similar physical dimensions and a well-documented drug problem.

“He’s got really good burst, quickness and bend,” one scout said. “Can contort his body. You don’t want him being a down-in, down-out starter, but somebody will say the production and the talent is too good and roll the dice.”

One scout watched Williams but didn’t even bother writing a report because his organization has removed him from consideration.

“He’s a red flag,” the evaluator said. “It’d be like writing on toilet paper. It doesn’t matter, and he’s probably a better pass rusher than Myles (Garrett).”

When the Journal Sentinel asked 16 executives to name the best pass rusher in the draft regardless of position, 12 tabbed Garrett but Williams drew two votes, as did Thomas.

“He’s probably the most dangerous guy in the draft in terms of not being able to trust him,” said one scout of Williams. “He’s exactly what we need, too.”

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2017/04/23/ranking-nfl-draft-prospects-defensive-linemen/100738094/

quote:

Defensive ends

1. MYLES GARRETT, Texas A&M (6-4½, 270, 4.64, 1): “It’s a no-brainer,” said one scout. “If Cleveland doesn’t take him they should be kicked out of the league.” Third-year junior led the DEs in the vertical jump (41 inches), broad jump (10-8), bench press (33 reps) and Wonderlic intelligence test (31). “When that guy came down the assembly line it was a special day for the Almighty,” said another scout. “He was feeling real good about what he was doing. You do see some lapses but I do think he will live up to the A&M tradition of Von Miller. If Ziggy Ansah is a 5 on talent level, this guy’s a 6. We’re talking a whole different level.” Finished with 145 tackles (48 ½ for loss), 32 ½ sacks and seven forced fumbles. “Straight-laced,” said a third scout. “Well-liked. Motor doesn’t always run hot. Deep thinker. Into jazz.” From Arlington, Texas. “He leaves a lot to be desired,” a fourth scout said. “He’s a good athlete but there are stretches of him not being productive. He’s not really a tough guy. He’s a flash player. I don’t think he plays hard. He’s got burst and speed but I’d take (Joey) Bosa.”

2. SOLOMON THOMAS, Stanford (6-2½, 272, 4.70, 1): Third-year sophomore. “Reminds me of John Randle,” said one scout. “Quick and active, strong and powerful.” On the short side to play 5-technique and lacks bulk for 3-technique. “He’s a little bigger and probably more explosive than Brandon Graham,” said a second scout. “He’s not Aaron Donald but he’s like that. He will win with his quickness and his movement.” Finished with 101 tackles (25 ½ for loss) and 11 ½ sacks in 27 games. “Jonathan Allen is a steadier player but he’s more of a big-play guy,” said a third scout. “He’s an intense and relentless competitor. Makes plays when you have to make plays. He has great measurables, and he backs that up.” Team captain scored 24 on the Wonderlic. “He’s a can’t-miss guy,” said a fourth scout. “People worked him out at linebacker. Love that dude. This kid knows how to play the game.” From Coppell, Texas.

3. MALIK McDOWELL, Michigan State (6-6½, 297, 4.87, 1-2): Third-year junior. “Classic boom or bust,” one scout said. “You turn on the Notre Dame game this year and a couple others and you’re like, ‘Wow.’ He showed you everything you want. Then he decided to go through the motions.” Long arms (34 ¾ inches), big hands (10 ½) and a Wonderlic of 15. “Tremendous athlete,” another scout said. “He’s got a very narrow stance he got knocked around (in). Can be undisciplined. He’ll go around blocks. He’ll guess. He needs the right attitude to complete his package.” Played well in 2015 but was awful in ’16. Finished with 90 tackles (24 ½ for loss) and 7 ½ sacks. Played extensively at NT in 2015 but projects more to 3-technique or 5-technique in the NFL. “He’s freaky talented,” said a third scout. “All you’ve got to do is put on the national semifinal game last year and he kicked the crap out of Alabama up front. Watch Notre Dame this year. He knocked the crap out of their linemen. He was unbelievable. But there are some really bad games where he checked out. Now the character, he’s got bust written all over him.” From Detroit.

4. TACO CHARLTON, Michigan (6-5½, 274, 4.83, 1-2): Played through an ankle injury in 2016, his first as a starter. “He appeared on the scene for just one year,” said one scout. “I don’t know where he’s been. I don’t think he could stand up. More of a down guy. He did have a good year but we’re a little nervous about him.” Some 3-4 teams feel he could play OLB. “For what we’re asking, (yes),” a second scout said. “His 40 time was not good but there are games this guy can do whatever he wants as a rusher. I entertained the thought of him being the best rusher in the draft. There’s times this guy one-arm bull-rushes guys and just humiliates them. He’s tall, but he can bend and get low.” Playing DE, finished with 94 tackles (27 ½ for loss) and 18 ½ sacks. Wonderlic of 22. “Reminded me of (Cameron) Heyward, the kid from Ohio State that Pittsburgh took in the first (2011), but he’s better,” a third scout. “More movement skills. No, no, no, no, noooo, you would be doing him and your defense a disservice at outside backer. There’s no way he can play up.” From Pickerington, Ohio.

5. JORDAN WILLIS, Kansas State (6-3½, 255, 4.56, 1-2): Three-year starter at DE. “He’s a 4-3 D-end who has all the athletic skills to stand up,” said one scout. “More in the mode of a Charles Haley how he rushes the passer. He’s got power, technique and sneaky athleticism.” Finished with 114 tackles (40 ½ for loss) and 26 sacks. “His floor is very good and not a bad ceiling,” said another scout. “I’d play him as a 4-3 end but he could play in the 3-4 if he had to. Neat thing about him, he’s a package. Can play on all three downs. Very good with his hands. Rushes with a plan. Got enough twitch to win the one on one. On first down he’s a really good leverage player. Not a wow guy but a really good player.” From Kansas City. “He’s wound a little tight but he worked out like a gem,” said a third scout. “High character guy.”

6. TIM WILLIAMS, Alabama (6-3, 243, 4.66, 2): Designated pass rusher for the Crimson Tide (34 games, two starts). “Hell of a rusher,” said one scout. “Wins with get-off and bend and technique. He can get skinny. Not a total liability against the run but lacks size, strength at the point of attack. He’s always going to struggle against the run and some of the dropping stuff from overall intelligence and awareness.” Finished with just 57 tackles (30 for loss) and 20 sacks. Wonderlic of 20. Admitted having failed drug tests. “Doesn’t take care of his body,” a second scout said. “His problem is he’s a (expletive) weight-room guy and he smokes too much. He’s light in the (expletive), but at least he is powerful for a light in the (expletive) guy. He ran 4.7 but plays like a 4.5 guy. He can bend, and all those guys at Alabama are so good with their hands.” Short arms (32 ¾), small hands (9 ¼). “Dynamite pass rusher but I don’t trust him off the field as far as I can throw him,” said a third scout. “He’s selfish. I don’t think he really likes football. I don’t think that’s good.” From Baton Rouge, La.

7. TANOH KPASSAGNON, Villanova (6-7, 286, 4.80, 2): Two-year starter at DE in a 3-4. “I compared him to Julius Peppers, the basketball player that’s still raw,” said one scout. “He could turn out to be the best of all of them because of his height, arm length (35 5/8), hand size (10 5/8). This would be like an Al Davis pick.” Compared by one scout to Sean Jones, the Raiders’ second-round pick from Northeastern in 1984. “Sean Jones had some stiffness,” the scout said. “This guy is a lot more athletic. He and Myles Garrett might be the two best athletes of the group.” Finished with 105 tackles (37 ½ for loss) and 22 sacks. “You want a small-school guy to at least flash at the Senior Bowl,” said another scout. “He definitely did that. You can’t draw them up any better than the way he looks.” From Ambler, Pa. “Man, I think he’s a long ways off,” a third scout said. “He’s huge but the instincts are off. Not a natural football player.”

8. DeMARCUS WALKER, Florida State (6-3½, 281, 4.94, 2-3): Third leading sacker in Seminoles’ history. “He’s a technician who wins with effort and toughness,” said one scout. “Reminds me a little bit of Trey Flowers. Not very athletic but knows how to play.” Finished with 179 tackles (41 ½ for loss) and 28 ½ sacks, including 16 as a senior. “When they put him inside in subpackages as a 3-technique he beat a lot of bad offensive linemen with a swim move,” a second scout said. “He’s not big enough to play inside.” Doubtful, too, if he can play OLB. “He had a ton of production but he’s a limited athlete,” a third scout said. “Kind of won more with toughness than anything else. I didn’t see the pass rush transferring to the NFL.” From Jacksonville.

9. TARELL BASHAM, Ohio (6-3½, 268, 4.74, 3): Played 50 games for the Bobcats at DE. “He’s got something to work with,” said one scout. “Got a little bit of pass-rush juice. Good effort. Just a little raw.” Might be able to play OLB. “He did a lot of settling and reading more than attacking,” said a second scout. “He’ll need an awful lot of technique coaching (but) he has the tools to be a base end.” Finished with 152 tackles (38 ½ for loss) and 27 sacks. “Little immature,” said a third scout. “Kind of coasted. What’s his commitment going to be like? Yeah, he’s a good kid, but is he going to respond to being in the NFL on a daily basis? Or is he going to revert to, ‘I’m the best guy on a (expletive) team?’” From Rocky Mount, N.C.

10. DaWUANE SMOOT, Illinois (6-3, 262, 4.80, 3): Played considerably better as a junior than as a senior. “Thought he’d be better this year,” said one scout. “Little bit of an underachiever.” Projects as a RE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4. “Explosive, plays hard, aggressive,” said a second scout. “More effort than speed. Savvy rusher. Slippery. Can be physical in the run game and bend the corner. Blue-collar kid with a blue-collar game.” Finished with 137 tackles (38 ½ for loss) and 16 ½ sacks. “He’s a fluid enough athlete (for OLB),” a third scout said. “If you don’t mind your outside guy being stiff he can do it. Just kind of an up-field rusher.” From Groveport, Ohio.

OTHERS: Carl Lawson, Auburn; Daeshon Hall, Texas A&M; Derek Rivers, Youngstown; Fadol Brown, Mississippi; Isaac Rochell, Notre Dame; Deatrich Wise, Arkansas; Trey Hendrickson, Florida Atlantic; Keionta Davis, Tennessee-Chattanooga; Avery Moss, Youngstown; Garrett Sickels, Penn State; Bryan Cox, Florida; Ifeadi Odonigbo, Northwestern.

Defensive tackles

1. JONATHAN ALLEN, Alabama (6-2½, 285, 5.01, 1): Started 38 of 50 games on a great defense. “Prototype 3-technique,” one scout said. “He’s a beast in that gap. Good enough pass rusher. He can strike you, control the line of scrimmage, find the football and throw you. He’s a man. Very fundamental player.” Finished with 152 tackles (44½ for loss) and 28 sacks. “He’s not athletic,” a second scout said. “He’s got good hips but he doesn’t have speed. He’s good instinctively, plays hard and you can’t move the dude. His lower half is tree trunks.” Several teams have major reservations about his surgical shoulders. “If he passes your medical … but a fantastic kid,” a third scout said. “Awesome football player. Probably the most versatile defensive lineman I’ve ever done in terms of position flex.” Wonderlic of 27. “You just wonder if he can manhandle people like he did in college,” said a fourth scout. From Leesburg, Va. Added a fifth: “Hell of a player but an Alabama beat-up guy, I’m telling you. There’s a lot of them beat-up. He’s a sure thing if he holds up medically.”

2. CHRIS WORMLEY, Michigan (6-5, 297, 4.85, 2): Started 30 of 51 games. “Just very bland,” said one scout. “There’s no flash. He’s got a solid floor but the floor and the ceiling are almost touching each other. A by-the-numbers guy. There won’t be a lot of production. You’re just going to get a solid player. A guy like that can get overdrafted based on his position and the intangibles. Normally a guy like that you look at in the fourth, fifth rounds. (Jared) Odrick was a much better player.” Finished with 123 tackles (33 for loss) and 18 sacks. “Without question, he’s an impact run defender,” said a second scout. “He’s the kind of personality you could develop. I think you see a lot of try-hard stuff. He’ll be a guy that will fight hard to try to get better.” Has played DE and DT. “I don’t know if he’ll ever go to a Pro Bowl but he’ll be a great starter for like 10 years,” said a third scout. “There’s just no wow other than you have to stop and realize the kid is 300 and he runs 4.77. Moves like a basketball player. You want him to play a little more angry but that’s just not who he is. Always in the right place.” Wonderlic of 29. From Toledo, Ohio.

3. DALVIN TOMLINSON, Alabama (6-3, 311, 5.16, 2): Probably the best NT available. “He’s one of the best interviews I’ve done in the last 10 years,” said one scout. “He got accepted to Harvard. That was one of his offers. He’s a three-time state wrestling champion in Georgia. His dad died when he was 5 and his mom died when he was 17. Kind of a great story.” Had to wait his turn, eventually starting as a senior. “Just a lunch-pail, tough, strong, gives-it-his-all every-play guy,” said another scout. “He’s had the knees but they (team doctors) say he’s fine.” Tore both ACLs in 2012-’13. Finished with 122 tackles (10 ½ for loss) and four sacks. Didn’t work out well. “Old-school classic nose,” said a third scout. “Reminds me a lot of Aubrayo Franklin. He’s one of the toughest guys ever to come through that school. He’s a grown man. (Jarran) Reed is better. More length, height, faster. Very similar style of play.” Wonderlic of 25. From McDonaugh, Ga.

4. CALEB BRANTLEY, Florida (6-2½, 306, 5.15, 2-3): “Of all the DTs, he probably is the best pass rusher,” said one scout. Fourth-year junior with a Wonderlic of 29. “He’s lazy,” said another scout. “Guy doesn’t always play hard. He’s got some penetration. Got some dog in him. He’s a definite potential bust guy.” Finished with 80 tackles (20½ for loss) and 5½ sacks. Involved in a bar altercation April 13 in Gainesville but after investigation one team has cleared him of wrongdoing. Weighed 330 out of high school in Crescent City, Fla. “Wasn’t in real good shape at pro day,” said a third scout. “He doesn’t bring it all the time. You’re going to have to kick him in the (expletive).” Much more interested in shooting gaps than anchoring against double teams. “I didn’t like his style of play,” said a fourth scout. “I didn’t like his toughness. He’s not that big. Doesn’t play heavy.”

5. MONTRAVIOUS ADAMS, Auburn (6-3½, 304, 4.88, 2-3): Three-year starter played much better as a senior than ever before. “Played with a lot more passion this year,” said one scout. “He was a dog a couple years ago. Can be disruptive if you just say, ‘Go.’ Never going to be a dependable, consistent player because of lack of instincts and the stiffness.” Rapid takeoff as a 3-technique somewhat reminiscent of how ex-Packer Jerel Worthy played at Michigan State. “Worthy’s a better player,” said another scout. “Montravious can run in a straight line but he’s stiff in the lower (body).” Started 36 of 52 games, finishing with 151 tackles (21 for loss) and 11 sacks. “Not a great run defender,” said a third scout. “He’s got strength. He just has not learned how to take on doubles and know when they’re coming.” From Vienna, Ga.

6. LARRY OGUNJOBI, Charlotte (6-2½, 304, 5.01, 3): Started 46 games, most often at NT in a 3-4. “He is an athlete for sure,” said one scout. “Got great takeoff, great quickness, really good kid. He overthinks a lot of stuff. He’ll get pushed around at the point of attack when you have to two-gap. Plays hard.” Wonderlic of 36; considering medical school. “He’s talented, really talented,” another scout said. “There’s some issues with the shoulders, no doubt about it.” Had labrum surgery on each shoulder. Finished with 217 tackles (49 for loss) and 13 sacks. First Charlotte player to appear in the Senior Bowl. “If he’s focused, he can jolt you and shed you,” said a third scout. “But quite often he gets hung up on blocks. He will be a project.” From Greensboro, N.C.

7. EDDIE VANDERDOES, UCLA (6-3, 303, 4.98, 3-4): Top-ranked defensive lineman in the nation as a freshman from Auburn, Calif. Came off a broken foot to start alongside Kenny Clark in 2014 and again in the ’15 opener before suffering a torn ACL. “Everyone there (UCLA) thought he was better than the guy Green Bay drafted (Clark),” said one scout. “He came back last year (’16) and he’s lazy and got to 340 and was sluggish. Then he goes to the Senior Bowl and he’s 310 or whatever and played good. Not sure what you’re going to get with him. He was kind of entitled at UCLA. They let him get away with anything he wanted. Wasn’t really coached well. He’s a big athlete. You’re betting on the come.” Finished with 126 tackles (13 ½ for loss) and four sacks. Baseball pitcher in high school. “He can be dominant with his flashes,” another scout said. “He’s just not consistent. He was coddled there. It’s a matter of getting around people that won’t take his little sob story about how his hangnail hurts or something and pressure him into playing. He’s a first-round talent.” Wonderlic of 20.

8. JALEEL JOHNSON, Iowa (6-2½, 316, 5.27, 3-4): Two-year starter. Mediocre spring workouts didn’t help his cause. “He has feel, plays with leverage, stacks O-linemen and then disengages,” said one scout. “I just liked him as a run player. I don’t think he plays on third down. Tested poorly. He’s a nose. In the right system I could see him starting.” Hold-the-fort type NT. “Good hand placement,” another scout said. “More of a bull rusher. He’s not an agile guy.” Finished with 112 tackles (18 for loss) and 12 sacks, including 7½ in 2016. Played at Montini Catholic in suburban Chicago.

9. NAZAIR JONES, North Carolina (6-5, 304, 5.11, 3-4): Longest arms (34⅞) and biggest hands (10⅞) of the DTs. “He’s non-typical of a lot of North Carolina defensive players in that he’s tough, plays hard and is a good worker,” said one scout. “They have a history of finesse guys and good athletes. He was the opposite. Great kid. Really liked his interview.” Diagnosed with complex regional pain syndrome when, at 16, he woke up one morning and couldn’t walk. He told teams it’s incurable, but with weekly medication he has played without incident. Finished with 146 tackles (22 for loss) and five sacks. “He’s pretty good hand controlling his area and, with a head of steam, can roll up a blocker and get to the quarterback,” said another scout. “There’s enough there that he’s going to be a pretty drat good player.” From Roanoke Rapids, N.C.

10. DAVON GODCHAUX, Louisiana State (6-3½, 305, 5.19, 4): Third-year junior declared a year early with 34 starts in 37 games. “He’s late off the ball a lot this year,” said one scout. “Got good size. He’ll flash.” Overcame a harrowing upbringing in Plaquemine, La. The type of player some scouts root for. “There’s a lot of bad stuff that’s been around him in the past,” said one. “The fact he’s gotten where he is now should be a credit to him.” Finished with 145 tackles (19 for loss) and 12½ sacks. “Two-gap interior guy,” said another scout. “Not going to give you much pass rush but can hold the point.”

OTHERS: Elijah Qualls, Washington; Carlos Watkins, Clemson; D.J. Jones, Mississippi; Treyvon Hester, Toledo; Vincent Taylor, Oklahoma State; Ryan Glasgow, Michigan; Grover Stewart, Albany (Ga.) State; Stevie Tu’ikolovatu, Southern California; Jarron Jones, Notre Dame; Tanzel Smart, Tulane; Josh Tupou, Colorado; Charles Walker, ex-Oklahoma.

****

Unsung Hero

D.J. Jones, NT, Mississippi: Nonqualifier out of Greenville, S.C., who helped East Mississippi win two national junior-college championships. Backed up at Ole Miss in 2015 before starting at NT last year. Disruptive and strong (28 reps on the bench), but also short (6-0 ½, 316) and short-armed (32 ½ inches).

Scouts' Nightmare

Grover Stewart, DT, Albany State (Ga.): Massive (6-4½, 334) interior player from the Division II ranks. Visited a ton of teams this spring after flashing in the NFLPA all-star game, running a 5.17 40 and bench-pressing 30 times. He also amassed 27 sacks in four seasons. Don’t be surprised if he sneaks into the fourth or fifth round.

Packers' Pick to Remember

Cletidus Hunt, DT, Kentucky State: Third-round pick in 1999. Was a fixture at 3-technique from 2000-’04. His Journal Sentinel grades were C-plus in 2000, C in ’01, B in ’02 and ’03, and C-plus in ’04. GM Mike Sherman signed him to a six-year, $25.35 million deal in March 2003. Limited by tendinitis in both knees, Hunt was cut by GM Ted Thompson on Sept. 3, 2005 and never played again. He finished with 17 sacks.

Quote to Note

AFC personnel man: “One thing about Michigan guys. Michigan people have always been tough. There’s very few people that have come out of Michigan that aren’t tough. It’s just the mentality of the program since (Bo) Schembechler.”

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a neat cape
Feb 22, 2007

Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!

Grittybeard posted:

Yeah that's the go to can't miss guy for sure, but that was 8 years ago now.

Time flies, huh?


gently caress.

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