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Kai Tave posted:So is Nick Spencer an alt-righter or? Nah he's not, he's just an idiot.
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Apr 24, 2017 07:56
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Nah he's not, he's just an idiot. Is he trying to make some deep commentary and loving it up incredibly or what? I don't know the story so far but when I see Odinism, Nazism and alternate history poo poo mushed together I'm like fuckin here we go.
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Apr 24, 2017 07:59
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The guy writing Captain America handwringing over people punching Nazis was one of the dumber things I've ever seen.
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Apr 24, 2017 08:00
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JBP posted:Is he trying to make some deep commentary and loving it up incredibly or what? This is my vote. "  how profound!
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Apr 24, 2017 08:09
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JBP posted:Is he trying to make some deep commentary and loving it up incredibly or what? I don't know the story so far but when I see Odinism, Nazism and alternate history poo poo mushed together I'm like fuckin here we go. The Mjolnir bit is from an issue that hasn't been released yet but from everything else he's written recently he comes across as short-sighted and privileged rather than outright alt-right.
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Apr 24, 2017 08:12
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Nah he's not, he's just an idiot. I mean that's not really a no.
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Apr 24, 2017 08:14
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Doctor Spaceman posted:The Mjolnir bit is from an issue that hasn't been released yet but from everything else he's written recently he comes across as short-sighted and privileged rather than outright alt-right.
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Apr 24, 2017 08:25
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P.d0t posted:This is my vote. A gritty GI Joe reboot where Cobra Commander is unmasked to reveal Chuck Schumer Destro is Cory Booker and The Baroness is Diane Feinstein
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Apr 24, 2017 08:30
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Kai Tave posted:That said some dude named Nick Spencer apparently pitched Marvel editorial a bold, visionary storyline that could be summed up as "what if all this time Captain America was actually a Nazi?????? And, like, the Allies only won WWII because the used the cosmic cube to cheat reality into what we THINK is the true timeline but then it gets undone because something something anyway Captain America is totally a Nazi now, and maybe always has been" and because this is comics instead of his body being immediately fired out of a cannon into the sun he was told "so when can you start?" SHIELD had a cosmic cube which they were loving around with. It exploded and took on the form of a sentient young girl named Kubik. They decide to use Kubik to mentally control captured villains in a pleasantville style town in an attempt to rehabilitate them by giving them false memories of "normal' lives. poo poo goes south as it always does with the villains eventually remembering who they were and revolting. Heroes go in to deal with the mess and during this Kubik restores Captain America's youth (he had lost his super soldier serum and had become an old man). Shield director gets a lot of heat for all this. Winter Soldier absconds with Kubik. Later on we find out that Kubik was friends with Red Skull, because she remembered him from when he was wielding her as a cosmic cube, and has been chatting with him. He asked her for a little favor, which was to gently caress with Captain America. So she rewrote his past. Now as Cap remembers it in his flashbacks he was recruited by Hydra and has been a secret sleeper agent for them all this time. Also BFF with Baron Zemo. Captain America, Agent of Hydra has been moving pieces into position for Hydra's ~grand plan~, he has also been working against Red Skull because he is no true hydraman. He rescued Baron Zemo and told him they were super friends which left Baron Zemo going  Up to this point all signs are pointing to this mostly being in Cap's head. The "allies created/used the Cosmic Cube to undo the Axis/Hydra victory" is part of this delusion, the flashback says that only Cap will remember this because of the  they were about to do to him.
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Apr 24, 2017 09:27
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All this Nazi talk is making me remember the comic Uber, which while it has issues(like pretty much everything else Avatar Press publishes), it also has one of my favorite attempts to codify superpowers in a comic book universe, with lots of interesting twists and turns to it's system
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Apr 24, 2017 09:39
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The Saddest Robot posted:SHIELD had a cosmic cube which they were loving around with. It exploded and took on the form of a sentient young girl named Kubik. They decide to use Kubik to mentally control captured villains in a pleasantville style town in an attempt to rehabilitate them by giving them false memories of "normal' lives. poo poo goes south as it always does with the villains eventually remembering who they were and revolting. Heroes go in to deal with the mess and during this Kubik restores Captain America's youth (he had lost his super soldier serum and had become an old man). Shield director gets a lot of heat for all this. Winter Soldier absconds with Kubik. oh well when you put it like that
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Apr 24, 2017 09:56
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the dumbest thing about secret empire is that mark millar already did nazi captain america in ultimates 2 and that was like 10 years ago but like secret empire, it was also big trash
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Apr 24, 2017 11:00
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Serf posted:the dumbest thing about secret empire is that mark millar already did nazi captain america in ultimates 2 and that was like 10 years ago Mark Millar licks goats
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Apr 24, 2017 11:08
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Millar's Communist Batman wasn't much better.
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Apr 24, 2017 11:11
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The dumbest thing about Secret Empire is that the original Secret Empire involved Cap taking down a corrupt president who shot himself in office and was probably Nixon, so how we get from that to "Cap is the real Nazi" is a ride no one can explain.
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Apr 24, 2017 11:23
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The Saddest Robot posted:Up to this point all signs are pointing to this mostly being in Cap's head. The "allies created/used the Cosmic Cube to undo the Axis/Hydra victory" is part of this delusion, the flashback says that only Cap will remember this because of the This was the driftwood a lot of comic fans were clinging to, but that poo poo's been sunk. The storyline is specifically "the Allies used the Cosmic Cube to rewrite history and win the war, and now when Captain America's past was rewritten, it went back to the real history." Oh and there's this whole thing about Hydra, despite being the Nazi science division and full of Nazis, is actually an ancient and venerable secret society that is dedicated to helping mankind or something. Y'know, kind of like the whole fake "Aryan civilisation" thing that the Nazis did! Except shhhh no they're not Nazis don't be crazy. Basically all the questions and problems people have with Cap "suddenly" being a Nazi have been answered by the lovely storyline that goes out of its way to glorify Hydra (who are NOT nazis we swear) because nothing is more important than assuring the audience that Captain America is totally and 100% dedicated to the
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Apr 24, 2017 11:45
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Fuego Fish posted:Oh and there's this whole thing about Hydra, despite being the Nazi science division and full of Nazis, is actually an ancient and venerable secret society that is dedicated to helping mankind or something. Y'know, kind of like the whole fake "Aryan civilisation" thing that the Nazis did! Except shhhh no they're not Nazis don't be crazy.
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Apr 24, 2017 11:48
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Don't read Cape conics and support the companies that churn this intellectually bankrupt genre, for God's sake. Like just buy indie comics from Dark Horse/Image/Avatar Press or Euro stuff or Manga but leave these 60 year old rotting IPs to die.
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Apr 24, 2017 12:33
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I see this and I'm reminded of the furor that went over Steve Rogers being replaced by (jingoistic murderer) John Walker as Captain America. And when the writer Mark Gruenwald was blasted for it, his defense was that he managed to take a book that was on the verge of cancellation and save it, and In that regard he had no regrets. A Marvel editor (Brevort, I think) commented a few years back on how fan anger fuels sales more often than not. He expressed his own puzzlement, explaining more of less that they don't know why it works, but that it does. If you want to know why Marvel pulls stunts like this and seems to ignore frustrated readers, that's a big part of why. That's not to defend the story - I haven't read it and don't particularly care - but the fact that it's being discussed here demonstrates the method to their madness. And "boycott the big two!" has been a rallying cry for decades, but comic stores would likely just fold en masse without them, so I don't think it's particularly productive. They're always put out both great and terrible comics and frankly, I think anybody who thinks there was a time that Marvel was different is hilariously wrong.
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Apr 24, 2017 13:44
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Kubik 
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Apr 24, 2017 14:36
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these are the kind of stories you get if you tell someone they have to put something out once a month for 70 years
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Apr 24, 2017 14:49
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more like if you tell someone they have once chance to get brought on as a staff writer if they pitch this quarter's world-shaking event and people actually buy it for once
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Apr 24, 2017 14:53
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The amazing thing about Spencer is that it's been explained to him slowly, multiple times, why this whole story is a bad idea, and he still doesn't get it. He can't seem to understand why his idea of taking one of the most popular superheroes in the world (who was created by two Jewish guys), turning him into a Nazi, and then trying to validate it with not one but two cosmic cube retcons is getting pushback from the fans.
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Apr 24, 2017 15:22
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JBP posted:Kubik
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Apr 24, 2017 15:23
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Evil Mastermind posted:The amazing thing about Spencer is that it's been explained to him slowly, multiple times, why this whole story is a bad idea, and he still doesn't get it. He can't seem to understand why his idea of taking one of the most popular superheroes in the world (who was created by two Jewish guys), turning him into a Nazi, and then trying to validate it with not one but two cosmic cube retcons is getting pushback from the fans. This is also the guy who had an issue where SamCap fought "evil SJW" supervillains, I kid you not. He's rather bad at this stuff and I wish he would stop, or is just actively awful.
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Apr 24, 2017 15:29
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Evil Mastermind posted:The amazing thing about Spencer is that it's been explained to him slowly, multiple times, why this whole story is a bad idea, and he still doesn't get it. He can't seem to understand why his idea of taking one of the most popular superheroes in the world (who was created by two Jewish guys), turning him into a Nazi, and then trying to validate it with not one but two cosmic cube retcons is getting pushback from the fans. Giving Captain America to Spencer just shows how bad he is when out of his wheelhouse—his Superior Foes and Ant-Man are both kinda fun, but his Avengers was only any good because Hickman co-wrote and everything else he's done is different flavours of garbage.
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Apr 24, 2017 15:34
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gourdcaptain posted:This is also the guy who had an issue where SamCap fought "evil SJW" supervillains, I kid you not. He's rather bad at this stuff and I wish he would stop, or is just actively awful. I wish I could find it again, but Spencer said on twitter that he doesn't like Nazi-punching because he doesn't like the idea of people just getting to decide who they're allowed to punch, and someone else comes back with "dude, you literally just described superheroes."
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Apr 24, 2017 15:47
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Meanwhile, Chris Evans is on Twitter actively expressing his desire to punch some modern-day alt-righ Nazis.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:00
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Evil Mastermind posted:I wish I could find it again, but Spencer said on twitter that he doesn't like Nazi-punching because he doesn't like the idea of people just getting to decide who they're allowed to punch, and someone else comes back with "dude, you literally just described superheroes." Impressive.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:05
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gradenko_2000 posted:What the hell happened to Marvel? There was also this thing the other day where they're apparently asking retailers to wear Hail Hydra t-shirts. Kai Tave posted:If you dare to brave the depths of the comics subforum you can probably get a better answer but to start with be aware that Marvel That Makes Billion Dollar Movies and Marvel That Makes Comics That Sell Like 100,000 copies are sort of in a D&D/Magic: the Gathering kind of relationship where one is vastly more important than the other and the lesser one is basically left to do whatever dumb poo poo they want to because nobody really cares. That said some dude named Nick Spencer apparently pitched Marvel editorial a bold, visionary storyline that could be summed up as "what if all this time Captain America was actually a Nazi?????? And, like, the Allies only won WWII because the used the cosmic cube to cheat reality into what we THINK is the true timeline but then it gets undone because something something anyway Captain America is totally a Nazi now, and maybe always has been" and because this is comics instead of his body being immediately fired out of a cannon into the sun he was told "so when can you start?" Alien Rope Burn posted:I see this and I'm reminded of the furor that went over Steve Rogers being replaced by (jingoistic murderer) John Walker as Captain America. And when the writer Mark Gruenwald was blasted for it, his defense was that he managed to take a book that was on the verge of cancellation and save it, and In that regard he had no regrets.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:07
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The thing that bugs me the most about this whole Cap thing is all the people who're going "well, it's Marvel's character, they can do what they want with it" or "they're just going to undo it all at the end of the event anyway", like those somehow excuse lovely writing or that a story's content doesn't matter. It might just be the seasonal allergies talking, but it's loving aggravating to see people constantly shooting down any criticism about this whole thing.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:26
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Alien Rope Burn posted:And "boycott the big two!" has been a rallying cry for decades, but comic stores would likely just fold en masse without them, so I don't think it's particularly productive. They're always put out both great and terrible comics and frankly, I think anybody who thinks there was a time that Marvel was different is hilariously wrong. They are already dying in a horrible slow way the way it is and while I think that the Big Two stopping (impossible lol since that even though they don't make a profit of comics they do a SHITLOAD out of the intellectual property farming) there COULD be the chance that it could make indies take over the niche and eventually flourish by the virtue of not being a swamp of ideas.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:26
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Also as Cape comics have been rebooted at an exponential rate by 2020 there will be a Spider-Man #1 being released every week
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Apr 24, 2017 16:30
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Just read fascist manga instead like Gundam Unicorn or Attack on Titan, imo.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:33
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It's pretty telling to me that the Big Two IP that takes off--that gets made into movies or even does something as small as inspire a single visual reference--is the stuff where the writers were given relatively free rein, rather than the obsessively manicured and edited Extruded Superhero Product. Like in BvS, people liked Batman's postapocalyptic Darkseid vision, but even I was confused by Flash showing up from the future to yell a warning. The former is Elseworlds as gently caress while the latter reeks of yet another lovely Crossover Event.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:33
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Halloween Jack posted:It's pretty telling to me that the Big Two IP that takes off--that gets made into movies or even does something as small as inspire a single visual reference--is the stuff where the writers were given relatively free rein, rather than the obsessively manicured and edited Extruded Superhero Product. haha holy poo poo now that i think about it that was the only part of the movie that was remotely interesting
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Apr 24, 2017 16:47
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fool_of_sound posted:Just read fascist manga instead like Gundam Unicorn or Attack on Titan, imo. and High School of the Dead and GATE and Mahouka and
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Apr 24, 2017 16:49
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Just read shoujo manga so that you can relax into the comfortable, soft bigotry of conservative gender roles instead of being confronted with all that gross martial fascism stuff.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:56
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Please read my HuffPo thinkpiece, "Easygoing Nazis? The Fascism of Yuru Yuri"
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Apr 24, 2017 16:59
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:Just read shoujo manga so that you can relax into the comfortable, soft bigotry of conservative gender roles instead of being confronted with all that gross martial fascism stuff.
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Apr 24, 2017 17:03
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