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X-O posted:Again, I'm a complete GL know-nothing, but if Johns was writing all this stuff and it's like his favorite characters then why didn't he try to establish something concrete? It sounds like it was left a mess on purpose just from what you're all saying here. Geoff Johns is a tool. He only gives a crap about what he was writing at the time. He didn't mind contracting canon when he was writing pre-N52, and he's not going to care post-N52. My favourite annoying Johns trivia is, post N52 all of the writers were told (Supposedly) "Okay we wont be doing a GL event for 2 years, so you have 24 issues to establish things and build to it." 12 months into it, we get a GL event and every book gets derailed. Why? Well Johns was leaving and he wanted to finish writing his "magnum opus" (Said Opus is the same event repeated ad nauseum with the actors changed) so yeah. I'm probably not the best person to explain why GJ didn't sort it out, because I hate the man. But the skinny of it is, he didn't want that whole line-wide reboot to impact the story he was telling no matter what was going on in any book. If you want me to be completely honest, even though he's my favourite character Kyle probably shouldn't have made the jump into the N52. He just has too much drat baggage associated with him. That entire period of time should have been blanked, or kept as it was. Instead it's... left a mess.
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Apr 24, 2017 04:13
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X-O posted:Again, I'm a complete GL know-nothing, but if Johns was writing all this stuff and it's like his favorite characters then why didn't he try to establish something concrete? It sounds like it was left a mess on purpose just from what you're all saying here. Johns wanted to not actually have his plot, which was heavily tied to the history of the DC universe, be undone by their intent at doing a fresh reboot basically.
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Apr 24, 2017 04:15
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ImpAtom posted:Doomsday may or may not have killed Superman which may or may not have caused Cyborg Superman to come and blow up Coast City which may or may not have made Hal Jordan go crazy and murder all the Green Lantern corps which may or may not have been destroyed which may or may not have left Kyle as the last Green Lantern while Hal may or may not have been the Specter after blowing himself up to reignite the sun. yea, you know, clarifying
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Apr 24, 2017 04:16
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ImpAtom posted:Doomsday may or may not have killed Superman which may or may not have caused Cyborg Superman to come and blow up Coast City which may or may not have made Hal Jordan go crazy and murder all the Green Lantern corps which may or may not have been destroyed which may or may not have left Kyle as the last Green Lantern while Hal may or may not have been the Specter after blowing himself up to reignite the sun. I mean it pretty much sounds like all of this happened now, yeah
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Apr 24, 2017 04:23
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So if they're retconning that the JL has been active for 15 years is Cyborg in his 30s now? That'd be hilarious considering they just de-aged his entire cast of friends last year once again.
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Apr 24, 2017 05:13
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They could probably do something like explain he was on the Teen Titans with Dick, Roy, Garth, Donna, etc.
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Apr 24, 2017 05:15
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Roth posted:They could probably do something like explain he was on the Teen Titans with Dick, Roy, Garth, Donna, etc. It seems like they're sticking to the JL origin tho. Just shoving a lot of stuff in the middle. edit: I guess this would apply to Dick, too, since he was a teenager and showed up in that JL flashback just before Rebirth! Everyone's in their 30s-40s! Except Starfire, Raven, and Beast Boy.
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Apr 24, 2017 05:16
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Two Tone Shoes posted:So if they're retconning that the JL has been active for 15 years is Cyborg in his 30s now? That'd be hilarious considering they just de-aged his entire cast of friends last year once again. I... don't even know anymore.
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Apr 24, 2017 05:19
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X-O posted:I... don't even know anymore. Welcome to the New Teen Titans and their 30 year old robot black friend!
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Apr 24, 2017 05:21
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So if all this stuff happened and that means the Justice Leagues have been running for 15 years does that mean Billy Batson is in his 20s now?
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Apr 24, 2017 05:24
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If they do somehow link Cyborg back to the Titans somehow, I would appreciate his friendship with Beast Boy being restored. That was one of the best things about both characters that they just completely got rid of.
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Apr 24, 2017 05:26
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X-O posted:I said it before, this whole thing is just creating way more questions than it should be. They should have just left it alone. That being said it's done so go ahead and try to salvage what you can of it and anything you can write off about N52 Superman is a good thing. DC just being DC and doing things seemingly impulsively now at weird rear end whims. It sucks for other writers because this feels like last minute from the top kind of mandate that they now have to scramble to make it work.
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Apr 24, 2017 05:29
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Alright Geoff, there's a lot of questions and confusion here, but I'll just forget about all of it if we can have Conner Kent back and restore his friendship with Tim Drake. I'll forgive anything if you give me that back.
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Apr 24, 2017 05:29
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Wasn't it Scott Lobdell who went out of his way to write about how Tim and Conner are totally not gay?
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Apr 24, 2017 05:31
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Onmi posted:Geoff Johns is a tool. He only gives a crap about what he was writing at the time. 'Cept he did Rebirth for everyone else and went "later." One of the reasons it could be starting to get messy now might be cause he isn't there. Edit: You've read Omega Men, right? Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 05:33
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Roth posted:Wasn't it Scott Lobdell who went out of his way to write about how Tim and Conner are totally not gay? Unless you want to retcon Steph and Cassie out of their lives I don't think outright gay fit either of them before Lobdell, either. Wouldn't surprise me if Lobdell threw in a bunch of NO HOMO moments in his awful comics, though.
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Apr 24, 2017 05:34
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I meant more as in "There's no way these TOTALLY STRAIGHT guys could like each other as more than friends, none of that gay poo poo here"
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Apr 24, 2017 05:36
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I just really want an issue of Super Sons where Jon and Damian have to team up with Conner and Tim. Come on DC.
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Apr 24, 2017 05:38
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X-O posted:I just really want an issue of Super Sons where Jon and Damian have to team up with Conner and Tim. Come on DC. Sounds like the OG Titans/YJ generation teamups but moved a generation down. Itself being a callback to the Teen Titans/JL crossovers.
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Apr 24, 2017 05:40
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Teenage Fansub posted:'Cept he did Rebirth for everyone else and went "later." My first comic book character, the book that got me into comics period, was Green Lantern and Emerald Twilight. I think it's safe to say that if there's a book in which Kyle gets to star to any degree, especially if the general concensus is that it's very good, then yes, I've read it... Well, most of it, I have missed the first few issues that I'm tracking down. I'm guessing you're bringing this up because they retold his origin again? X-O posted:I just really want an issue of Super Sons where Jon and Damian have to team up with Conner and Tim. Come on DC. This plox. I'd say throw in Bart, but there's no one currently at the Jon/Damien level to be a counterpart.
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Apr 24, 2017 05:57
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Hopefully the big 2 get desperate enough to do another DCvMARV and the boys can team up/battle with Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:03
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Onmi posted:This plox. I'd say throw in Bart, but there's no one currently at the Jon/Damien level to be a counterpart. You could throw in Wally West II. I think Iris II/Impulse would fit better in that vein, though, but no one in the world likes her but me.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:07
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I think either some of us are misinterpreting the series of events or I'm misinterpreting it. From what I can understand, fifteen years ago Superman came on the scene and the Justice League was together for a while. Then Doomsday attacked and Superman died and the Justice League broke up. Then, about five years ago, the Darkseid invasion event -- or some version of that -- happened and the Justice League got back together with its current roster that includes Cyborg. So, basically, the New 52 version of the Justice League is being retconned as the most recent incarnation of the Justice League, which has actually been around before then.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:21
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I either need to start reading more comics, or fewer comics, because I am so confused. Hopefully everything gets sorted out in the next crisis and I can pick things up then.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:25
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Hopefully everything gets sorted out in the next crisis and I can pick things up then. Also being said by DC's writers and editors after every event.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:30
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It's not that hard to get! 
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Apr 24, 2017 06:32
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BrianWilly posted:I think either some of us are misinterpreting the series of events or I'm misinterpreting it. Actually, what if the original incarnation that Superman was originally part of was the JSA?
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Apr 24, 2017 06:34
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Roth posted:Wasn't it Scott Lobdell who went out of his way to write about how Tim and Conner are totally not gay? Tim and Kon's friendship has less homoerotic undertones under Lobdell. He did make them best buds with Bunker, who was openly gay and one of the best mexican characters I've seen in mainstream comics; though.  
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Apr 24, 2017 08:21
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Unless you want to retcon Steph and Cassie out of their lives I don't think outright gay fit either of them before Lobdell, either. Wouldn't surprise me if Lobdell threw in a bunch of NO HOMO moments in his awful comics, though. When Kon died, Tim Drake moved Heaven and Hell to try and bring him back. He decided to break every law of science and nature to try and resurrect Superboy. And when he did finally come back his reaction was to break down and cry uncontrollably. When it came to Stephenie Brown, he didn't even try and investigate her death and I think all he did when she came back was maybe shake her hand. It's always been clear who Tim's one love was. (Well when they weren't doing that weird "Tim is asexual" subtext.)
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Apr 24, 2017 12:12
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The Question IRL posted:When Kon died, Tim Drake moved Heaven and Hell to try and bring him back. He decided to break every law of science and nature to try and resurrect Superboy. And when he did finally come back his reaction was to break down and cry uncontrollably. No horse in this race, really, but given the mandated disdain for and hate of Steph by DiDio et al -- which is why she was bumped off to begin with -- I wouldn't really take Tim's non-reaction to her death, at least, as much of a sign of anything. On Kon-El, if they ever do bring him back I hope they ditch Geoff Johns' retcon (the Luthor DNA hybrid bullshite), because that was stupid as hell and did nothing but pile pointless drama on Kon. His origin was just fine and screwed up already, he didn't need a ~Luthor connection.
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Apr 24, 2017 12:32
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I finished the first Mark Waid Flash tpb yesterday. The last issue in it was an Annual, which was part of a company-wide crossover that year. I was somewhat confused when it ended with Wally being possessed by Eclipso, with no mention of where the story was continued. 
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Apr 24, 2017 12:45
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irlZaphod posted:I finished the first Mark Waid Flash tpb yesterday. The last issue in it was an Annual, which was part of a company-wide crossover that year. I was somewhat confused when it ended with Wally being possessed by Eclipso, with no mention of where the story was continued. Everything worked out alright. The annuals from that era aren't really worth reading tbh.
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Apr 24, 2017 13:34
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BrianWilly posted:I think either some of us are misinterpreting the series of events or I'm misinterpreting it. But who founded the original one, Wonder Woman or Black Canary?
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Apr 24, 2017 13:40
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But see, complexity is cool and good and doesn't at all confuse things.
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Apr 24, 2017 13:42
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Aphrodite posted:But who founded the original one, Wonder Woman or Black Canary? Wonder Woman, who was of course Hippolyta sent back in time, duh
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Apr 24, 2017 14:18
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X-O posted:Alright Geoff, there's a lot of questions and confusion here, but I'll just forget about all of it if we can have Conner Kent back and restore his friendship with Tim Drake. I'll forgive anything if you give me that back. This but also Martian Manhunter
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Apr 24, 2017 14:41
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While we're asking for things, please have Rip Hunter show up and backhand Dr. Manhattan for what he did to Rip's nice clean timeline.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:44
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:While we're asking for things, please have Rip Hunter show up and backhand Dr. Manhattan for what he did to Rip's nice clean timeline. Check the latest Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps.
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Apr 24, 2017 17:26
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So when people were suggesting Elseworlds for me to read, no one mentioned Kingdom Come. Is it not good? I've only ever heard the premise and I liked it a lot. Stuff like Justice Lords or Red Son where the supers finally are allowed to do something. No more status quo is god, they try to make real change with all those amazing powers they have. There's so much potential here in terms of philosophy and politics and yeah.That's what I thought KC dealt with. But it seems like a lot of people sy it's poo poo.
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Apr 25, 2017 15:40
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NikkolasKing posted:So when people were suggesting Elseworlds for me to read, no one mentioned Kingdom Come. Is it not good? I've only ever heard the premise and I liked it a lot. It's a great comic. I am shocked that it was not recommended as it's usually on best of lists. Marvel also tried something similar with Earth X, but that goes to poo poo real fast.
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Apr 25, 2017 15:50
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