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Moltrey posted:There's literally a section in the artbook about how Goro lives alone in an apartment, goes around to fancy resturants to try new dishes so he can have food to use as SOME kind of conversation point and has no problem waiting in long lines cause what the gently caress else is he gonna do with his sad existence. Really? You'd think all the murder would keep him busy.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:39
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ChrisBTY posted:Really? You'd think all the murder would keep him busy. He'd only pop into the metaverse after school and he doesn't have a cat to tell him to go to bed, so he's got plenty of spare time.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:41
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:He'd only pop into the metaverse after school and he doesn't have a cat to tell him to go to bed, so he's got plenty of spare time.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:43
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Joker's relationship with Kawakami is hosed up enough without bringing "mother" into it.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:45
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Just finished the game and I absolutely loved it. It's easily the best SMT game, the best game on the PS4 right now and my GOTY. With that being said, I do feel like they pulled a Far Cry 3 in regards to the villains. I wish Goro or Shido was the final antagonist of the game, instead of a god monster who isn't alluded to until the very end. I know "a group of kids beating up god" is kind of SMT's thing (especially in SMTIV Apocalypse, which was a huge problem with that game), but I feel like it did this game a disservice. The final foe should have been either Shido or Goro. I also wish there was more to do in the post-game. What happened to bringing back the protagonists from previous SMT games as bonus bosses? This was the first time I ever loved an SMT game so much that I wanted to keep playing and fight the optional bosses, but what they have is too lame. Bring back the Demifiend! I still loved this game, despite its flaws, and will probably pay for it again when the inevitable update/remake comes out.
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Apr 24, 2017 07:32
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DeadBonesBrook posted:Just finished the game and I absolutely loved it. It's easily the best SMT game, the best game on the PS4 right now and my GOTY. Is this your first Persona game by chance
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Apr 24, 2017 07:36
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I don't know, I like thematically that it acknowledges that the problems of the world aren't solely caused by individual cackling masterminds. I mean, Yaldabaoth is a cackling mastermind, but it is also primarily the reification of society's apathy and desire for conformity
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Apr 24, 2017 07:39
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While Goro is obviously a better character than Strega, I do agree with darealkooky that there were some fairly obvious ways to take him that I think would've been stronger. He could either have been someone who honestly believed what he said, a sympathetic force of law who may agree with your ideals but not your methods, or they could've gone the other way and had him be a more extreme version of yourself: applying justice violently and indiscriminately. And either of those would've made a better foil for Joker. The way he is now, as Shido's lapdog who's unknowingly desperate for parental approval, certainly makes him pitiable but doesn't really have much to say other than "well, sucks to be him". Ironically, it doesn't really comment on the concept of Justice at all, which I took to be the main theme of Joker and the Phantom Thieves.
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Apr 24, 2017 07:42
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Clarste posted:While Goro is obviously a better character than Strega, I do agree with darealkooky that there were some fairly obvious ways to take him that I think would've been stronger. He could either have been someone who honestly believed what he said, a sympathetic force of law who may agree with your ideals but not your methods, or they could've gone the other way and had him be a more extreme version of yourself: applying justice violently and indiscriminately. And either of those would've made a better foil for Joker. The way he is now, as Shido's lapdog who's unknowingly desperate for parental approval, certainly makes him pitiable but doesn't really have much to say other than "well, sucks to be him". Ironically, it doesn't really comment on the concept of Justice at all, which I took to be the main theme of Joker and the Phantom Thieves. Goro embodies the idea of "well if I was hosed by the system then it's my right to do the same once I'm a part of it" to me at least. Sheer nihilistic gently caress you got mine.
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Apr 24, 2017 07:46
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except that goro isn't acting out of self interest, everything he does is to help shido out of his super naive "I'm going to make him prime minster and THEN decide to ruin his career" plan which the game proves was failed from the start and also I guess god give him loki to make people go crazy or something as part of the game which still isn't really "gently caress you got mine" so much as it is just "gently caress you"
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Apr 24, 2017 07:53
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darealkooky posted:except that goro isn't acting out of self interest, everything he does is to help shido out of his super naive "I'm going to make him prime minster and THEN decide to ruin his career" plan which the game proves was failed from the start and also I guess god give him loki to make people go crazy or something as part of the game which still isn't really "gently caress you got mine" so much as it is just "gently caress you" You're describing his goal. I'm talking about how he rationalizes the pursuit of his goal to himself. World is poo poo might as well be poo poo too.
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Apr 24, 2017 07:56
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darealkooky posted:except that goro isn't acting out of self interest, everything he does is to help shido out of his super naive "I'm going to make him prime minster and THEN decide to ruin his career" plan which the game proves was failed from the start and also I guess god give him loki to make people go crazy or something as part of the game which still isn't really "gently caress you got mine" so much as it is just "gently caress you" Isn't that self-interest though? He's acting solely to revenge on his dad (though he also wants his acknowledgement as well) and he doesn't care who gets hurt to achieve that. That seems plenty selfish. He's only it for himself.
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Apr 24, 2017 08:02
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In terms of the tarot Akechi fits in perfectly with the meaning of the reversed Justice card, which as the traitor makes a lot of sense. He is convinced that the world is completely unjust and the only truth is what you make, which includes killing. While both Joker and Akechi see the justice system as corrupt and broken and that its stated goal is a lie, everything that the Phantom Thieves do is actually about trusting that the system can be fixed and that it can be forced to align with those goals, while Akechi takes advantage of the broken system for his own ends. Also, while looking stuff up for this, I learned something which I supposed was probably more obvious to Japanese audiences? -- Kogorō Akechi is the Japanese Sherlock Holmes, a fictional master detective who consults with the police and faces off against a gentleman thief and master of disguise, "The Fiend with Twenty Faces". Pretty neat...!
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Apr 24, 2017 08:07
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darealkooky posted:except that goro isn't acting out of self interest, everything he does is to help shido out of his super naive "I'm going to make him prime minster and THEN decide to ruin his career" plan which the game proves was failed from the start and also I guess god give him loki to make people go crazy or something as part of the game which still isn't really "gently caress you got mine" so much as it is just "gently caress you" That isn't entirely true. He is also using his abilities to cause mental shutdowns and violent insanity to provoke innocent people into committing crimes so he can 'solve' them which is how he became a famous detective. That is entirely due to his need to be loved.
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Apr 24, 2017 08:10
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Zore posted:That isn't entirely true. He is also using his abilities to cause mental shutdowns and violent insanity to provoke innocent people into committing crimes so he can 'solve' them which is how he became a famous detective. There's a super lengthy conversation on the phone where akechi and shido exposit that the entire detective thing came about as a way to cause shidos victims to have mental breakdowns and also prevent it from being traced to him (because instead akechi "solved the case of the crazy guy"), was he doing it just for the fun of it too?
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Apr 24, 2017 08:30
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I think one little change which could have helped is simply to find Akachi right in front of the final boss, having survived his earlier off screen 'death' and incorporate him into that fight - the difference being brought there as a tool of Yaldobaoth, to mirror Sataniel being under the control of the protagonist. There are numerous ways this could have been made even more explicit, such as him directing the stuff in the final areas of Mementos to protect the Grail.
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Apr 24, 2017 08:43
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Whoops wrong thread
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Apr 24, 2017 08:49
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I wanted Akechi to be the last boss, alas, he ended up having too many issues to pull it off. I also don't really like or buy that he is genuinely surprised Shido was going to kill him too,even including his daddy issues
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Apr 24, 2017 11:15
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played college ball y'know 
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Apr 24, 2017 11:30
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Everyone drew the parallels and they aren't wrong. Honestly Pride is always considered the deadliest sin, i would have been completely fine if he was the last encounter.
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Apr 24, 2017 11:59
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8 restful hours of sleep a night, son.
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Apr 24, 2017 12:09
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My girlfriend watched me play through and it was really fun to see the reactions of someone who isn't all that familiar with SMT or Persona. Before this, her only exposure to Persona was through the Persona 4 anime. So far the best reaction (other than how extremely invested she was in finding out how Joker survived being shot in the head) was how hard she laughed when the ultimate Judgement Persona was loving Satan. Once you've played a couple SMT games, fusing Satan's no big deal.SyntheticPolygon posted:Morgana gives a half-assed explanation for it if you talk to him before you go to bed that night. It's still dumb though. I don't even think it was a half-assed explanation so much as a massive shrug. Unless I'm misremembering Morgana's just like, "You got closer to Akechi even though that wasn't even the real you there. Weird, huh? That's pretty cognitive. Anyway don't think about it too hard and go to bed." Harrow fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 13:49
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I think my biggest issue with Akechi is the sheer body count he has. If the game focused more on him using palaces and stuff like that for blackmail then it would be a lot easier to empathize with him.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:16
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Caught a youtube of the bonus NG+ fight vs. the twins and man, they can baton pass and if they manage to down everyone they pull an all out attack just like you can, complete with poses and the death splash screen and you bleeding profusely. It seems really unlikely to happen to you (the youtube I saw had only Joker facing them), but it's worth looking up regardless because man the passes and posedown are both top tier, the all out attack animation in particular is way cooler than anything your party ever does and now has me wishing you got an improved looking all out attack when using a party you've maxed your confidant rankings with. Guess that NG+ run is gonna get started after all, youtubing around a bit has reminded me how much I love this game.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:18
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Ultimately, Shido makes some foolishly attention-grabbing moves on his way to the top. He has Akechi cause some very noticeable mental shutdowns specifically so that he can:
That said, his sin is Pride and all of the above tracks perfectly well with someone who is utterly ruled by their pride. So I'm not saying it's bad character writing to have him make a bunch of prideful mistakes. It's just remarkable how much he could've gotten away with if he'd been able to control that pride even a little.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:25
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It's rad as poo poo and if you can't do enough damage to them after a few turns, they'll decide you're not strong enough and just end you with an AOA. I tried it as soon as the fight was available on my NG+ run and lasted 6 turns. Also I have no idea what's up with Caroline's AOA portrait, either the perspective is hosed or she just has really tiny baby hands or something.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:28
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I dunno, but bobble-head Caroline is still amazing no matter how many times I see it. Their AOA splash screen + post is also really, really cool. 
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Apr 24, 2017 14:30
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Can't believe I didn't know that until you guys mentioned it today this owns
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Apr 24, 2017 14:34
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I wonder why Persona soundtracks from 3 onward tend to have groovy, stylish songs with lyrics for everything except boss fights. Random battles, running around town, even one or two of the dungeons, but then boss fights always fall back on just guitar and either strings, distorted electronic sounds, or both. Persona 3 doesn't quite fit the pattern--the final boss themes are a  Velvet Room remix and a great version of "Burn My Dread"--and Persona 5 does have "Rivers in the Desert," but I kinda wish they'd keep the game's overall musical aesthetic more prominently for boss fights. Persona 5's final boss theme is perfectly good, it's just a letdown after "Rivers in the Desert" and the rest of the game's sweet musical style.In the process of writing this post I remembered how much I love "Burn My Dread" so now I'm going to go listen to that
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Apr 24, 2017 14:33
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Maybe it's to emphasize the fact that you're facing off against an otherworldy being that you should have no chance of standing up to?
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Apr 24, 2017 14:37
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Could be. I thought the final battle version of "Burn My Dread" actually did a great job of selling that, though--it's tense and heroic at the same time, it's utterly perfect for that final fight. I think they could pull off something that fits with the game's musical style but also sells the "holy poo poo we're fighting the closest thing our universe probably has to a god" thing. I should also note that I thought the final battle theme for Persona 4 was good even if it dropped the game's main musical style, but that's specifically because it has fully seven minutes of nothing but dread and foreboding strings and percussion leading up to a really triumphant orchestral version of "Reach Out to the Truth" and that sold the whole thing for me. Maybe if Persona 5's final boss theme had somehow incorporated "Life Will Change" or something I'd be more positive because I'm a sucker for recurring musical motifs.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:39
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Harrow posted:I should also note that I thought the final battle theme for Persona 4 was good even if it dropped the game's main musical style, but that's specifically because it has fully seven minutes of nothing but dread and foreboding strings and percussion leading up to a really triumphant orchestral version of "Reach Out to the Truth" and that sold the whole thing for me. It was perfect. They weren't going to top it, so I commend them for not trying something similar again.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:41
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Harrow posted:If he had instead used Akechi and the Metaverse specifically for blackmail and just accepted that it'll take longer to rise to power that way, he might well have gotten away with it completely. Well, that, and maybe don't get drunk and assault a woman on the street, and if he absolutely must, just let the kid who interrupts you go, maybe with a threat or two. Akechi would have murdered the gently caress out of him at that point. He wouldn't have been as guarded around someone who wasn't a hired killer, and nobody would have been around to get in Akechi's way.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:47
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I know it replaced the original soundtrack for it, but I kinda liked they redid Persona 1 music to match the later series style. Not played much of it in a while, but do seem to remember the Persona 2 PSP rerelease didn't redo the sountrack through, which is a bit sad even if it good for purist.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:48
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Harrow posted:I don't even think it was a half-assed explanation so much as a massive shrug. Unless I'm misremembering Morgana's just like, "You got closer to Akechi even though that wasn't even the real you there. Weird, huh? That's pretty cognitive. Anyway don't think about it too hard and go to bed."
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Apr 24, 2017 14:50
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Harrow posted:Could be. I thought the final battle version of "Burn My Dread" actually did a great job of selling that, though--it's tense and heroic at the same time, it's utterly perfect for that final fight. I think they could pull off something that fits with the game's musical style but also sells the "holy poo poo we're fighting the closest thing our universe probably has to a god" thing. P%'s final boss theme really suffers for also being like a minute long before looping, it sounds like something that should play briefly in a hopeless boss battle before the party rally and the battle begins in proper (which I guess technically is the case, but considering the next phase is an instant-win QTE it's not really much of a consolation). Really it would have been nice to have an extended straight fight with Yalbadaoth along with a proper final boss theme to compliment it
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Apr 24, 2017 14:59
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Speaking of music, I just unwrapped the CD that came with the collector's edition the other day. Man, they definitely want you to go buy the real ost huh?
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Apr 24, 2017 15:21
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Saint Freak posted:Speaking of music, I just unwrapped the CD that came with the collector's edition the other day. Same with the artbook. I get that they wanted to avoid spoilers in the bundled items this time, but they ended up very flimsy as a result. Not that the bundled OSTs have ever been good.
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Apr 24, 2017 15:31
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multijoe posted:P%'s final boss theme really suffers for also being like a minute long before looping, it sounds like something that should play briefly in a hopeless boss battle before the party rally and the battle begins in proper (which I guess technically is the case, but considering the next phase is an instant-win QTE it's not really much of a consolation). I imagined the final boss going like this. First phase is what's in the game, second phase happens when everyone is cheering you on to 100%. Joker gets put on a {SEND} status while preparing the spirit bomb and the team gets fully healed like they do normally. Team then has to defend him and you have to manage with just the 3 for a short while. I kinda figured that was going to be the case when I saw everyone get healed but Joker (rude) but nope.
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Apr 24, 2017 15:40
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NRVNQSR posted:Same with the artbook. I get that they wanted to avoid spoilers in the bundled items this time, but they ended up very flimsy as a result. Oh yeah, I forgot the art book in Persona 4 spoiled Adachi, as I was flipping through it early on in the game and come upon the page for Adachi showing him with multiple evil portaits and figured he was the killer. Rirse fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 15:45
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