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jassi007 posted:It has nothing to do with gathering data. That is the bullshit they say when they mean "we desperately hope that the collective playerbase finds a way out of this mess for us because more bans are going to erode consumer confidence badly." It probably won't happen but they want to let the format have a shot of pulling up for the loving dive it is in now. They don't give a poo poo about customer confidence though? If so, they wouldn't have banned top considering that probably killed more $ in deck building than any ban in a long time. At this point it feels more like ego than anything else. Bannings admit they were wrong not only with aether revolt, but also with the set that came after. It also highlights a long term problem of designing stuff too far in advance. People who make the decisions decided that nothing is better for the image no matter how dumb it is. Top gameplay for tournament speed was enough to ban it regardless of any balance concerns but it should have happened long ago. Sickening fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 19:09
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https://twitter.com/MagicOnline/status/856570395398258689
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Apr 24, 2017 19:10
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Count Bleck posted:I'm just still mad they didn't even give Smuggler's Copter a god drat chance in a format with Fatal Push.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:13
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Apr 24, 2017 19:15
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Sickening posted:They don't give a poo poo about customer confidence though? If so, they wouldn't have banned top considering that probably killed more $ in deck building than any ban in a long time. People building a Miracles legacy deck (or any legacy deck really) doesn't put any money into Wizards pockets since it is all done on the secondary market, so that point doesn't really ring true.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:17
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Just watched Kenji have an opponent ask him how you go about Exerting. You'd think it would ask you when you attack, but nope.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:18
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MrBling posted:People building a Miracles legacy deck (or any legacy deck really) doesn't put any money into Wizards pockets since it is all done on the secondary market, so that point doesn't really ring true. They just put Counterbalance in this set for those players so this is not true
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Apr 24, 2017 19:19
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Sickening posted:They don't give a poo poo about customer confidence though?
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Apr 24, 2017 19:23
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MrBling posted:People building a Miracles legacy deck (or any legacy deck really) doesn't put any money into Wizards pockets since it is all done on the secondary market, so that point doesn't really ring true. MTG players don't make WOTC money? Are you sure?
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Apr 24, 2017 19:32
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Sickening posted:MTG players don't make WOTC money? Are you sure? LEGACY players do not.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:35
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Sickening posted:MTG players don't make WOTC money? Are you sure? If I decide to build a Legacy deck, I would be either trading for cards or buying them from places like Starcity Games or ChannelFireball. WOTC themselves aren't making any money from that part. That is all I'm saying. There's a reason WOTC doesn't give a poo poo about Legacy or Vintage, the one or two cards they make every third set that are playable on those formats have no real impact on sales.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:35
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Count Bleck posted:I'm just still mad they didn't even give Smuggler's Copter a god drat chance in a format with Fatal Push. Smuggler's Copter was a stupid loving card that had no good reason to exist. Your anger is misplaced, unless this is an ironypost to comment on "giving Amonkhet a chance" to answer a turn 4 infinite combo. This is only sort of a bug. The problem is the fact that Exert is not a trigger that goes on the stack and most people expect it to be a Declare Attackers trigger. It's a decision you have to make as you declare the attacker. Allowing you to choose to exert after you declare attackers is literally cheating. But there should probably be a button with "Attack with all and exert all available attackers," yes. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 19:38
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YggdrasilTM posted:LEGACY players do not. They don't play events for sealed prizes? They don't play any other formats? They don't play large events or buy products other companies have to play WOTC for licensing/etc? MrBling posted:If I decide to build a Legacy deck, I would be either trading for cards or buying them from places like Starcity Games or ChannelFireball. WOTC themselves aren't making any money from that part. That is all I'm saying. This would be true if they didn't just create a masters set that catered to them. They obviously aren't the priority, but all you folks writing off these customers that are deeply invested into the game might have faulty logic. I don't even play legacy. Sickening fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 19:39
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I just love the theory that there's a cabal of Legacy-only players that play no Magic other than Legacy. Saying "WOTC makes no money off Legacy players" is such a stupid sentiment I don't get why anyone would type it out, and then think that it seems like a good thing to post. Mentioning that WOTC makes no money directly from Legacy play doesn't say anything relevant other you have terrible insight.
Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 19:43
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Sickening posted:This would be true if they didn't just create a masters set that catered to them. They obviously aren't the priority, but all you folks writing off these customers that are deeply invested into the game might have faulty logic. I don't even play legacy. We're also 2 for 4 on sets containing cards that were reprinted in a Masters Set that were banned from the format they were intended for shortly after.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:43
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YggdrasilTM posted:LEGACY players do not. Yes they do, Eternal Masters was very successful and they're looking at rolling out more similar sets. Cards like Leovold find their way into from Conspiracy and generate buzz for those as well. Legacy players don't buy as many cards but they're also one of the easiest markets to design for, just print something efficient, that skirts a cost somehow or interrupts card drawing and it has a good chance to trickle in. E: Hell make it blue and you double it's chances
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Apr 24, 2017 19:44
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YggdrasilTM posted:LEGACY players do not. Funny, I'm pretty sure I've bought $several thousand of in-print singles over the last few years.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:46
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Sickening posted:They don't play events for sealed prizes? They don't play any other formats? They don't play large events or buy products other companies have to play WOTC for licensing/etc? I think you might be focusing on the word "any" but there are quite a few people like me who spend very little in dollars that end up in WOTC's pocket vs. a 3rd party vendor. Even accounting prizes, pre-release, a draft or two of a Masters set, a licensed product WOTC probably see's like 5-10% of the total value of my Magic expenditure in the course of a year, as opposed to casual players who are buying product, people who play standard who have a more vested interest in opening product or going to more sanctioned events etc. I'd wager someone who plays standard probably spends 20-40% if not more of their total Magic expenditure per year direct to WOTC. They have to be several times more valuable as a consumer than someone like me who plays modern/cube, 2-5 drafts per set and a pre-release and I crack like 20-50 prize packs of whatever set.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:47
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Count Bleck posted:Just watched Kenji have an opponent ask him how you go about Exerting. That's because that's against the rules. Exert requires you to exert AS you attack; the act of pressing OK is declaring attackers. It's a super, super minor rules thing, but you can't declare attackers, realize you actually made a bad attack and then decide to exert.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:48
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jassi007 posted:I think you might be focusing on the word "any" but there are quite a few people like me who spend very little in dollars that end up in WOTC's pocket vs. a 3rd party vendor. Even accounting prizes, pre-release, a draft or two of a Masters set, a licensed product WOTC probably see's like 5-10% of the total value of my Magic expenditure in the course of a year, as opposed to casual players who are buying product, people who play standard who have a more vested interest in opening product or going to more sanctioned events etc. I'd wager someone who plays standard probably spends 20-40% if not more of their total Magic expenditure per year direct to WOTC. They have to be several times more valuable as a consumer than someone like me who plays modern/cube, 2-5 drafts per set and a pre-release and I crack like 20-50 prize packs of whatever set. Those card stores still make money which they can then use to purchase product from WotC, and it helps them remain open to purchase more product from WotC.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:49
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jassi007 posted:people who play standard who have a more vested interest in opening product People who play standard have no more incentive to open product than people who play modern or legacy.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:58
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Angry Grimace posted:That's because that's against the rules. Exert requires you to exert AS you attack; the act of pressing OK is declaring attackers. It's a super, super minor rules thing, but you can't declare attackers, realize you actually made a bad attack and then decide to exert. I mean more like when you select the creature to attack, a little popup prevents you from continuing because it has the Yes/No menu with "Do you want to Exert X Creature?"
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Apr 24, 2017 20:01
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Angry Grimace posted:That's because that's against the rules. Exert requires you to exert AS you attack; the act of pressing OK is declaring attackers. It's a super, super minor rules thing, but you can't declare attackers, realize you actually made a bad attack and then decide to exert. Then it should prompt when you toggle the attack? Or when you hit ok on your attacking choice ask you for each creature? These are both pretty obvious and simple solutions that are a lot more intuitive
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Apr 24, 2017 20:01
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Count Bleck posted:I mean more like when you select the creature to attack, a little popup prevents you from continuing because it has the Yes/No menu with "Do you want to Exert X Creature?" Magic Online can't be coded to do that, because
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Apr 24, 2017 20:03
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Angry Grimace posted:I just love the theory that there's a cabal of Legacy-only players that play no Magic other than Legacy. Saying "WOTC makes no money off Legacy players" is such a stupid sentiment I don't get why anyone would type it out, and then think that it seems like a good thing to post. Mentioning that WOTC makes no money directly from Legacy play doesn't say anything relevant other you have terrible insight. There DEFINITELY is a cabal of Legacy-only players that play no other Magic other than Legacy.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:04
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mcmagic posted:There DEFINITELY is a cabal of Legacy-only players that play no other Magic other than Legacy. Shame that Wizards just cannot print cards for them, because Wizards said Wizards cannot.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:06
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mcmagic posted:There DEFINITELY is a cabal of Legacy-only players that play no other Magic other than Legacy. And yet they still end up giving WOTC dollars through all the ways mentioned. I would also wager they have and will play the game longer than players in other formats on average. jassi007 posted:I think you might be focusing on the word "any" but there are quite a few people like me who spend very little in dollars that end up in WOTC's pocket vs. a 3rd party vendor. Even accounting prizes, pre-release, a draft or two of a Masters set, a licensed product WOTC probably see's like 5-10% of the total value of my Magic expenditure in the course of a year, as opposed to casual players who are buying product, people who play standard who have a more vested interest in opening product or going to more sanctioned events etc. I'd wager someone who plays standard probably spends 20-40% if not more of their total Magic expenditure per year direct to WOTC. They have to be several times more valuable as a consumer than someone like me who plays modern/cube, 2-5 drafts per set and a pre-release and I crack like 20-50 prize packs of whatever set. All customers aren't created equal. Having a wide variety of customers is right in WOTC wheelhouse though. Why do you think we have so many formats and levels of competition?
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Apr 24, 2017 20:12
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Someone with photoshop skills replace Sensei's Top in that sign with Felidar Guardian from the tweeted picture and then copy it 50 times to block out most of the WOTC building for me. TIA.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:16
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Sickening posted:And yet they still end up giving WOTC dollars through all the ways mentioned. I would also wager they have and will play the game longer than players in other formats on average. Big agree, even if they aren't spending the same amount of money on things that directly pay to wizards, they are free word of mouth advertisement, occasionally subsidize standard sets when a playable gets printed, and help trickle money into stores by built singles and event slots. It's worth having them around and paying low effort lip service at the very least
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Apr 24, 2017 20:21
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Death Bot posted:Big agree, even if they aren't spending the same amount of money on things that directly pay to wizards, they are free word of mouth advertisement, occasionally subsidize standard sets when a playable gets printed, and help trickle money into stores by built singles and event slots. The 90% of the Legacy and Modern players "free word of mouth advertisement" is "Standard sucks and it's a money pit, do not play it".
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Apr 24, 2017 20:27
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YggdrasilTM posted:The 90% of the Legacy and Modern players "free word of mouth advertisement" is "Standard sucks and it's a money pit, do not play it". 1) That's not everyone who plays those formats 2) It's true
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Apr 24, 2017 20:30
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TheKingofSprings posted:1) That's not everyone who plays those formats It's only half true. It is a money pit if you aren't winning a lot of store credit but for the vast majority of the last few years standard has been fun and I've enjoyed playing it.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:30
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Count Bleck posted:I mean more like when you select the creature to attack, a little popup prevents you from continuing because it has the Yes/No menu with "Do you want to Exert X Creature?" this is absolutely what should happen, and if you select all creatures attack it just has a pop-up for each exertable creature
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Apr 24, 2017 20:31
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mcmagic posted:It's only half true. It is a money pit if you aren't winning a lot of store credit but for the vast majority of the last few years standard has been fun and I've enjoyed playing it. My store only gives out packs so yes it is a money pit. And for the people who aren't grinding and winning while grinding it is a money pit and that would be everyone who doesn't make prizes.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:31
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YggdrasilTM posted:The 90% of the Legacy and Modern players "free word of mouth advertisement" is "Standard sucks and it's a money pit, do not play it". Yes, the best course of action would be to make standard not suck and I am glad everyone agrees. mcmagic posted:It's only half true. It is a money pit if you aren't winning a lot of store credit but for the vast majority of the last few years standard has been fun and I've enjoyed playing it. You are getting dangerously close to "Playing standing makes me money" kind of talk and the math never checks out. You know better. Sickening fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 20:34
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YggdrasilTM posted:The 90% of the Legacy and Modern players "free word of mouth advertisement" is "Standard sucks and it's a money pit, do not play it". agree with this in both ways
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Apr 24, 2017 20:32
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TheKingofSprings posted:My store only gives out packs so yes it is a money pit. They don't let you trade back packs for store credit?
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Apr 24, 2017 20:33
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mcmagic posted:They don't let you trade back packs for store credit? They didn't when I used to play, no.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:33
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Death Bot posted:Then it should prompt when you toggle the attack? Or when you hit ok on your attacking choice ask you for each creature? These are both pretty obvious and simple solutions that are a lot more intuitive This only matters if you use the "attack with all" shortcut. When you click on an individual exert creature during Declare Attackers it will give you the option to either attack or attack and exert. mcmagic posted:There DEFINITELY is a cabal of Legacy-only players that play no other Magic other than Legacy. Nah, that's largely bullshit. You're talking about a statistically irrelevant portion of an already statistically irrelevant demographic. There's also a guy who claims that Modern Masters cards aren't real. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 20:43
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I'm sure Wizards cares about eternal format players (in their own perverse way) but I'd say they care way way way more about their prime profit pusher of standard.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:50
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