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Apr 24, 2017 16:22
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This cannot continue.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:24
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Jagged Jim posted:
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Apr 24, 2017 16:25
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So how come Adam can teleport spam all over the place? What technological bump did the aliens bring to the table that allows "magic light teleportation" to be a thing? Or "live birth" for that matter, I guess. This seems a little fantastical.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:25
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This cannot continue...AndwhatIseeisme posted:So how come Adam can teleport spam all over the place? What technological bump did the aliens bring to the table that allows "magic light teleportation" to be a thing? Or "live birth" for that matter, I guess. This seems a little fantastical. Really fast, long-range 3D printing.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:25
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AndwhatIseeisme posted:So how come Adam can teleport spam all over the place? What technological bump did the aliens bring to the table that allows "magic light teleportation" to be a thing? Or "live birth" for that matter, I guess. This seems a little fantastical. 7,000 years of boredom and a lot of dissected android corpses?
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Apr 24, 2017 16:30
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AndwhatIseeisme posted:So how come Adam can teleport spam all over the place? What technological bump did the aliens bring to the table that allows "magic light teleportation" to be a thing? Or "live birth" for that matter, I guess. This seems a little fantastical.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:31
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Forgall posted:He respawned the same way Zero did in D3. It's all loving Watcher magic. "It's Watchers all the way down?"
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Apr 24, 2017 16:31
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AndwhatIseeisme posted:So how come Adam can teleport spam all over the place? What technological bump did the aliens bring to the table that allows "magic light teleportation" to be a thing? Or "live birth" for that matter, I guess. This seems a little fantastical. Wait. You were ok with the sun now constantly being in the sky but not rotationally locked or otherwise roasting all life, the teleporting telekinetic weapons and the endless ammo, but the weird not-an-android mitosis is a bridge too far?
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Apr 24, 2017 16:32
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AndwhatIseeisme posted:So how come Adam can teleport spam all over the place? What technological bump did the aliens bring to the table that allows "magic light teleportation" to be a thing? Or "live birth" for that matter, I guess. This seems a little fantastical. Well, teleporting swords back to them is kinda a thing 9S and 2B can do, also.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:33
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Jetrauben posted:Wait. The sun disappearing or loving up or whatever the hell is going on with that whole deal was explicitly caused by magic being introduced to a non-magical environment, and the weapon teleporting at least gets "electro-magnets" hand-waved around it. Aliens shouldn't be anymore magical than anyone else pre-Caim, and there has been no technology as far as I have seen that should justify teleportation being a thing for a physical object as large as Adam. I'm just wondering what's up.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:41
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AndwhatIseeisme posted:The sun disappearing or loving up or whatever the hell is going on with that whole deal was explicitly caused by magic being introduced to a non-magical environment, and the weapon teleporting at least gets "electro-magnets" hand-waved around it. Aliens shouldn't be anymore magical than anyone else pre-Caim, and there has been no technology as far as I have seen that should justify teleportation being a thing for a physical object as large as Adam. I'm just wondering what's up. Weapon teleportation: Fine. Robot teleportation: Not fine? Like, is your objection that you were not specifically told of the handwave for this one? Hell, your size objection doesn't work given the size of some of the weapons. Beastlord is not significantly smaller than Adam.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:44
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Jetrauben posted:Wait.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:46
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It's technology invented in a non-magic world where magic had been suddenly introduced a long time ago. 
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Apr 24, 2017 16:49
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AndwhatIseeisme posted:So how come Adam can teleport spam all over the place? What technological bump did the aliens bring to the table that allows "magic light teleportation" to be a thing? Or "live birth" for that matter, I guess. This seems a little fantastical. Stubbys are just massed troops. The machines probably operate on the logic of mass producing them to do all the human wave tactic stuff and keep the good tech when you really need it. From the machines point of view the stubby is probably an incredibly cost effective machine to produce, while theyll die in the millions killing one android, they are easy to fix up and easy to make in the first place. Advanced machines have their uses, but theyll get made when needed.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:52
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For those of you who haven't gotten this yet, it looks like US Amazon Prime is selling it at a $10 discount.
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Apr 24, 2017 16:52
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AndwhatIseeisme posted:The sun disappearing or loving up or whatever the hell is going on with that whole deal was explicitly caused by magic being introduced to a non-magical environment, and the weapon teleporting at least gets "electro-magnets" hand-waved around it. Aliens shouldn't be anymore magical than anyone else pre-Caim, and there has been no technology as far as I have seen that should justify teleportation being a thing for a physical object as large as Adam. I'm just wondering what's up. Nanomachines.
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Apr 24, 2017 17:00
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Is it unfair to say that Adam "teleports" using technology to advanced for androids, aka magic, across short distances? Although the perfect dodge is also like teleporting a short distance, so Adam maybe uses a better version of that.
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Apr 24, 2017 17:19
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Augus posted:It's technology invented in a non-magic world where magic had been suddenly introduced a long time ago. And then said magic was collected and shunted back whence it came over the course of a couple of millennia. This world has seen some poo poo.
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Apr 24, 2017 17:30
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I want to buy this game, but I also need a PS4, so this LP has done a good job of making me want to buy both. it's so weird but the combat looks amazing but it's so weird fantastic LP so far
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Apr 24, 2017 17:31
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Iretep posted:Stubbys are just massed troops. I think you responded to the wrong Nier thread, duder.
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Apr 24, 2017 17:32
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Carlosologist posted:I want to buy this game, but I also need a PS4, so this LP has done a good job of making me want to buy both. it's so weird but the combat looks amazing but it's so weird Can your PC run Nier A? If not, PS4 has some really good exclusives right now even outside of this game so it wouldn't be a bad choice
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Apr 24, 2017 17:32
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Hah! Maybe I'm far too optimistic about SomethingAwful dawt com posters, but maybe we can talk about what just happened in Nier by talking about Nier, and not arguing about this other game? That was a heck of a sequence. What did we just see? The game does present a giant honking clue by way of visual allusion, the wooden masks. The masks, as has been brought up before, are the mark of that weird village in Nier where society was run by literally thousands of rules, and the masks helped facilitate the interactions dictated by those rules. This feels weird and Yoko Taro to us because it takes social convention as a set of heuristics for interacting with other human beings, literally turns it into a visible thing, and takes it to an absurd extreme. That's relevant here because when the level of abstraction is right and it's specific enough, heuristics are the same thing as algorithms. Real, human social heuristics leave a lot of room for making things up on the spot, because most human beings are able to operate with highly vague goals and actually remembering codified rules for every interaction would become absurdly cumbersome. But machines are fundamentally unable to deal with vagueness. Computers are still transistors, and can only accomplish things that can be reduced to the operation of transistor gates. There have been huge and fascinating advancements in how to use statistical distributions (which can be computed in hardware) to analyze the outcome of many trials and categorize patterns in a way that approximates human learning. But... it's not human learning. The society of masks looks a lot like how an AI algorithm might start to categorize and define social behavior. The robot windup enemies provide a similar visual cue to this idea. We see individual robots simulating human situations (i.e. robo-bonking, child care) in individuals and pairs, then come together in a massive aggregate of machines conducting those trials to birth Sephiroth Ken. What seems hard for me to define right now is where the robot emotions are coming from and why. The human experiences of the robots are depicted as stiff and artificial. The voices are similarly robotic. At the same time, it's hard to ignore the game mechanic allusions to the first Nier (the enemy names in a bizzaro language) and we know how that ended up. We're all pretty much expecting this to be as horrible as it possibly could be. I don't trust that just because the emotions sound simulated that they are simulated. But if they are real, how do they exist in robots who have demonstrably inhuman understandings of the human context in which these emotions arise? What is that ken doll, why is he Sephiroth, and what's with the gushing blood? He is literally the creation of machine understanding of... humanity? Something close to it? I don't think we've seen enough to have answers about this yet, but I have a suspicion that this guy, his weird chest bursting clone, and his rage are going to have something to do with it. Edit: another question- what can't continue? 2B's Drakenguarding of the little wind-ups? The emotions they keep talking about? How is mr. Silver there a way to stop that from continuing?
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Apr 24, 2017 17:55
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In a world set in a future literally longer than our recorded history from now, arguing about teleportation seems just a little silly.
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Apr 24, 2017 17:59
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So in Nier 1 when the replicants cleaned up the white chlorination particles, how did they dispose of it? Did they, by any chance, shoot it into space? 
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Apr 24, 2017 18:05
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I'd have guessed about the robots imitating people, but how they're able to form a womb is beyond me. Like my own reading of the machines so far... in the desert they're trying to be people and imitate human life out of context. Other times say things like "androids are scary" and "they're killing everyone", which fits the context but my own Wild Guess is that it isn't, that they're also imitating an incident in the distant past of humans being afraid of androids? My memory of the timeline is fuzzy and that doesn't explain the womb but yknoe, just adding to the conversation.
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Apr 24, 2017 18:13
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Centurium posted:Edit: another question- what can't continue? 2B's Drakenguarding of the little wind-ups? The emotions they keep talking about? How is mr. Silver there a way to stop that from continuing? Considering that they start screaming it while 2B's smashing them all, it's safe to assume that "this cannot continue" refers to the machine/android conflict and the Dickless Wonder Twins there are meant to be some way of resolving it once and for all.
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Apr 24, 2017 18:17
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Haystack posted:So in Nier 1 when the replicants cleaned up the white chlorination particles, how did they dispose of it? Did they, by any chance, shoot it into space? Look, if you saw an interdimensional monster have it out with a dragon via magical music battle, wouldn't the safest place to send its pieces be an environment without sound? Humanity probably saw that go down and wanted no part of it.
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Apr 24, 2017 18:17
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Haystack posted:So in Nier 1 when the replicants cleaned up the white chlorination particles, how did they dispose of it? Did they, by any chance, shoot it into space? Probably some other dimension, hopefully the Drakengard one, but let's be honest, probably just some random dimension which is gonna get hosed over. The Nier humans likely don't give a poo poo about that. Meanwhile, the Watchers, they laugh. Lalalalala.
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Apr 24, 2017 18:23
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I also want to point out a cool musical choice, beyond the machine chanting in the song. Automata has a heavily female vocal backing, appropriate given the majority-female main cast, but I really like that the first encounter with a very masculine figure is also one of the few uses of purely male vocals in the game. I'm excited to get to other instances of very (if subtly) appropriate musical design decisions down the line. Goddamn, I adore the variety in this game's soundtrack.
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Apr 24, 2017 18:27
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:Probably some other dimension, hopefully the Drakengard one, but let's be honest, probably just some random dimension which is gonna get hosed over. The Nier humans likely don't give a poo poo about that. The cycle of suffering in Taroverse is really caused by every dimension making other people deal with their problems huh. Who wants to bet whatever poor reality got hecked over by that dumped the watchers in Notspain
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Apr 24, 2017 18:28
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Eldritch entity discovers one weird tip to get free trans-dimensional trips! Humans hate it!
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Apr 24, 2017 19:10
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Augus posted:You can turn Spec Ops: The Line off if you don't want to be complicit anymore. But you probably won't, you paid for the game after all. That's kinda the point, really. You're experiencing a story and being made to feel complicit in the horrible things going on in the story. While I did delete the game, you can just drop the WP at the very edge before it's teleported in over the civvies to make people feel bad, or I dunno, one could beat the horde of enemies or some other ingenious plan or give up. It's poor storytelling to offer choices and then force decisions, even if the game is obviously both trying to tell a character story as well making the player feel bad (which a lot of people did). Like those fake choices of 'but you must' in old jrpgs. And its arguably the key moment of a game about choices. Make others' opposition in the military strong and violent, as would be the case with a clear majority of service members in liberal democracies, waterproof of him having to do it, and add the option to just die or end the campaign somehow. I honestly don't think this is more than a notch better than CoDs "Hurh durh, General commands his soldier to massacre civilians at a foreign airport" 'controversy'. In terms of player involvement in the character this is just lazy storytelling masquerading as drama, not one shade of evil versus another. Negating this criticism requires seeing this game as being completely about the character (and even then it needs some waterproofing), and not about the player. Some people saw it that way, but others didn't. I think it was a mix personally. Hemingway To Go! posted:I'd have guessed about the robots imitating people, but how they're able to form a womb is beyond me. I'm skeptical of the 'aliens invaded' backstory. Only seen through the Prologue though. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 19:10
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RA Rx posted:It's poor storytelling to offer choices and then force decisions, quote:And its arguably the key moment of a game about choices. RA Rx posted:I honestly don't think this is more than a notch better than CoDs "Hurh durh, General commands his soldier to massacre civilians at a foreign airport" 'controversy'. In terms of player involvement in the character this is just lazy storytelling masquerading as drama, not one shade of evil versus another. CoD is jingoistic and basically says that it's ok the character helped shoot up an airport because he's actually a good guy and he's doing it for the greater good. Spec Ops:The Line is a tragedy where a decent person ends up doing horrible things that he can never move on from. How is that not a big difference?
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Apr 24, 2017 19:42
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RA Rx posted:I'm skeptical of the 'aliens invaded' backstory. Only seen through the Prologue though. I'm already 100% sure the little backstory bit we've been given is a complete lie - the real question is just HOW it's lying to us.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:44
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AndwhatIseeisme posted:The sun disappearing or loving up or whatever the hell is going on with that whole deal was explicitly caused by magic being introduced to a non-magical environment, and the weapon teleporting at least gets "electro-magnets" hand-waved around it. Aliens shouldn't be anymore magical than anyone else pre-Caim, and there has been no technology as far as I have seen that should justify teleportation being a thing for a physical object as large as Adam. I'm just wondering what's up. Devola and Popola were both androids and both were also capable of teleportation for what it is worth.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:50
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Haystack posted:So in Nier 1 when the replicants cleaned up the white chlorination particles, how did they dispose of it? Did they, by any chance, shoot it into space? They dumped it back into Drakengard 3. D3 heavily hints during the prologue that cathedral city in notSpain is actually the ruins of Tokyo. If by any chance somebody want to object that Drakengard 3 takes place before Drakengard 1: 
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Apr 24, 2017 19:53
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I wanna be able to teleport. Would make commutes and parking fees much more manageable.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:05
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This is the most boring use of such an ability I've ever heard. You are the most boring person.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:08
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MiddleOne posted:Devola and Popola were both androids and both were also capable of teleportation for what it is worth. They could like fly too which makes me question the usefulness of the flight units. I guess at some point magic just totally fell out of fashion
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Apr 24, 2017 20:10
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