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Kirby did nothing wrong
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Apr 25, 2017 07:12
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Leperflesh posted:Especially the car thing, a new 2017 model does not invalidate the 2016 model or make it less useful or less derivable in any way, it's a terrible comparison. I don't even need to change the text of this to make it apply to tabletop models.
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Apr 25, 2017 07:12
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Leperflesh posted:For example Wizards sets the release schedule for their magic the gathering cards a year or more in advance. Everyone knows at the time they're buying cards exactly when they'll stop being legal for the standard format.. This is untrue. The release schedule is a known thing but WotC has both hosed with what's legal in standard multiple times in the past few years and changed the banned and restricted announcements with no warning in the same time frame, so this is not the exemplar you hope it is. Please counter my argument with 5000 words of text that no one but your fans in the thread will pay attention to tia.
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Apr 25, 2017 07:12
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Hamshot posted:Your last claim could also do with some examples to back it up. you first
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Apr 25, 2017 07:12
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this thread is loving embarrassing
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Apr 25, 2017 07:15
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Is there some sort of Tyranid toxx? if not, I think there should be
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Apr 25, 2017 07:16
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Hamshot posted:I don't even need to change the text of this to make it apply to tabletop models. We're talking about rulebooks, but there is an expectation - with good prior experience behind it - that models are going to be obsoleted too. Not all of them, probably not even most of them, but... who knows? GW has not given out much information about what they're going to do to the various factions. Why not? They surely know by now. tallkidwithglasses posted:This is untrue. The release schedule is a known thing but WotC has both hosed with what's legal in standard multiple times in the past few years and changed the banned and restricted announcements with no warning in the same time frame, so this is not the exemplar you hope it is. Please counter my argument with 5000 words of text that no one but your fans in the thread will pay attention to tia. Please describe any instance in which WotC made cards in a current release, which had just come out within the last (say) six months, invalid for legal standard. I'm not moving the goalposts here: invalidating brand new products being charged for is GW's habit. I'm not an expert on Magic so maybe they've genuinely done this. If they have, it's despicable.
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Apr 25, 2017 07:19
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From the outside all this stuff about how much GW is or isn't improving from being "Absolutely Horrible" to just "Slightly Less lovely In General" comes off like two grumpy old men arguing about who owns what mud clump in a bog
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Apr 25, 2017 07:20
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I don't think anyone claimed Wizards of the C was good, its a parallel but it isn't a 100% one. Their normal pattern is to announce things ahead of time, more than a few simple weeks. Anecdotal story of Gw being Gw I was chatting with a clerk in the FLGS, dude gets a call from GW. I think it was for Fantasy's Storm of Magic books or some such. How many preoders for it they asked? None he said, because they can;t take preorders till a week in advance, that was day one, so they had loving zero. They wouldn't be able to set aside any because no one had any they could set aside for anyone else. Everyone had to pretend this thing was not coming till GW had declared it. How do you have preoders for something you can't preorder?  Fake Edit. Grumpy Old Grogs. Arguing for nothing about miniatures.
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Apr 25, 2017 07:21
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Huh? Sorry, I don't follow what you're trying to say there buddy.
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Apr 25, 2017 07:22
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Wizards has made a couple of changes to the Standard rotation period in the past few years, it is true. The first one was when they changed the patterns for when sets would rotate out of Standard. I don't believe this changed the point at which any already released sets were going to leave Standard; it was only for upcoming sets. The second came when they realized they'd actually made the Standard rotation too fast (or so they believed), so they changed it to make people's cards relevant for longer, which, while technically a change, is obviously an improvement from the consumer value perspective. Bannings are something that you can't really compare to any sort of normal product lifecycle, because by definition they mean that Wizards hosed something up and that banning a card is healthier on balance for the game than doing nothing. Not sure what the equivalent in a miniatures game would be but it isn't equivalent to the normal set/edition rotation. Finally, it's worth remembering that many MTG players already view the Standard of recent years (and specifically its relative levels of promotion over the eternal formats) as a naked profit-grubbing exercise that works to the detriment of players and the game experience in general, and feel that we'd be much happier if eternal non-rotating formats were promoted and made more accessible. So while I won't put any words in Leperflesh's mouth, he might not be intending to hold Wizards up as some sort of exemplar, just pointing out that even a bar as low as that one is still over GW's heads. JerryLee posted:I think if you want to make GW look remotely cool or good, you might need something stronger than "Starting to edge up towards maybe not being too much greedier and shittier than D&D or MTG" because let's face it, those examples also look insane to anyone who isn't already a hooked whale.
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Apr 25, 2017 07:27
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mods rename me to wizard of the c, tia
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Apr 25, 2017 07:29
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JerryLee while not equivalent in previous GW codex's a unit that might have been too strong sometimes had a 0-1 stipulation, could only have one of it or had to be taken with something to take it again. Not the same as banning but a restriction could help. Anything done after a printed release was much harder to control outside of regular event goers because if you did not play competitively everyone tends to house rule, if it was restricted it would be a toss up if a pick up game held it or not. Early 2000's 40k was buy a rule book, buy a codex if anything was FAQ maybe you saw it, more likely if you went to GW based stores before they went the one man route, a practice that still, to me, feels bad a lovely unless the person running it has enough table space for people to play normally instead of just reserved for intro games, some do some don't. Hell some special characters had a game point restriction unless an opponent agreed other wise. Off the top of my head in CSM Abbadon had it, Kharn did, Ahriman did but not Lucian or Typhon. A little thing like that could solve a few issues here an there. Everyone touts "gentleman's agreement" might as well have it in print.
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Apr 25, 2017 07:39
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Leperflesh posted:We're talking about rulebooks, but there is an expectation - with good prior experience behind it - that models are going to be obsoleted too. Not all of them, probably not even most of them, but... who knows? GW has not given out much information about what they're going to do to the various factions. Why not? They surely know by now. Are you just blind to the basic concept of how the DCI has worked for ~20 years? They do this all the time.
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Apr 25, 2017 07:53
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He said he is not an expert on Magic.
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Apr 25, 2017 07:57
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Once again: bans and restrictions are contingencies that are only used if they are absolutely needed. That's a fairly relevant distinction. If anything, many people suspect that the DCI is too reluctant to ban money cards when, for the health of the game, they ought to.
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Apr 25, 2017 08:05
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JerryLee posted:Once again: bans and restrictions are contingencies that are only used if they are absolutely needed. That's a fairly relevant distinction. I'd agree with you, but : Leperflesh posted:Please describe any instance in which WotC made cards in a current release, which had just come out within the last (say) six months, invalid for legal standard. I'm not moving the goalposts here: invalidating brand new products being charged for is GW's habit. This is some ignorant poo poo to post as hyperbole when five seconds of googling will bring up a list.
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Apr 25, 2017 08:11
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So ... The death thread was right all along about the new 40k... Who would have thought?
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Apr 25, 2017 08:10
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Only because they keep on moving the goalposts. Games workshop is releasing a new edition? 
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Apr 25, 2017 08:13
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Liquid Communism posted:I'd agree with you, but : That's true. I personally give him the benefit of the doubt that he meant lovely bad-faith obsolescence that can be directly compared to GW's, and it didn't occur to him (because he isn't familiar with competitive Magic) that the way he worded it would technically include game-balance bans. But yeah, it was bad wording.
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Apr 25, 2017 08:16
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Everyone and their dog called it on this turning out to be to be the Age of the Emperor The real curveball was that this is an improvement.
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Apr 25, 2017 08:18
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Leperflesh posted:
I was under the impression only older cards were banned. If they're banning cards they just printed, that's pretty gross and they absolutely should offer people refunds for them.
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Apr 25, 2017 08:39
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It's getting farther and farther away from anything that's a good direct comparison to GW, but part of the "problem" with offering refunds is that Wizards doesn't want to acknowledge that there's an out-of-control secondary market for single cards (even as they tacitly try to avoid doing anything that would lower the secondary market value too far). So when they ban, e.g., Smuggler's Copter, if they were to issue refunds, what would the refund be? The $20 or whatever that it would have cost from a dealer? The $3.99 the booster pack would have cost if you get all your Constructed rares by busting packs like a moron? MTG's own particular brand of nerd capitalism has a lot of broad similarities to GW's but it also has lots of idiosyncrasies that you're not really going to be able to compare one-for-one.
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Apr 25, 2017 08:53
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Xarbala posted:Everyone and their dog called it on this turning out to be to be the Age of the Emperor Even GW would have seen what an absolute train wreck age of sigmar was initially. Granted, it would have been hilarious if they didn't take that lesson to heart...
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Apr 25, 2017 08:56
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how bout we just do the reasonable thing and compare gw to other tabletop mini games but not every other trad game company, or car companies, or airlines? 
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Apr 25, 2017 08:57
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Leperflesh posted:Thanks for regurgitating the exact same missing-the-point arguments we've already taken apart, Hamshot. Including the stupid car analogy. Atlas Hugged posted:I think it is cool and good that GW is giving even as much as store credit for books that will be invalidated. Leperflesh posted:It is amazing how a company obsoleting products they just released get a total pass from people just because they offered store credit, not a refund good for no more than eight weeks after purchase. Leperflesh posted:Just to be clear I've never played warhammer 40k and the only 40k minis I own, I purchased more than 20 years ago. Leperflesh posted:how are you this dense Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:here you go friend Leperflesh posted:store credit, not refund or return policy Leperflesh posted:By "everyone" you mean like four or five posters and the hilarious part was I guess them arguing with believable, commonly-found crap opinions that, woah, here's the big joke, didn't belong to the people posting them! But were completely within the bounds of what actual real posters have posted, so... yeah, good job pretending to believe things other people believe, for effect! Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:perhaps someone should go find posts on another forum, then c/p them here as their own. thats the height of comedy surely Leperflesh posted:I'm not mad I hope they find a cure for whatever rare mental affliction ails you, so you can be healthy again one day.
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Apr 25, 2017 09:09
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owned by noted indigent furry ijyt and his ability to hit the quote button!
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Apr 25, 2017 09:19
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And now the personal attacks begin. Thank you ijyt.
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Apr 25, 2017 09:37
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For_Great_Justice posted:And now the personal attacks begin. Thank you ijyt. Welcome to the death thread. That's all it's ever been.
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Apr 25, 2017 09:40
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I guess the death thread is killing...itself?
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Apr 25, 2017 09:41
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Quick, someone make a thread where people guess how long the death thread will survive
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Apr 25, 2017 09:51
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Apparently GW is acknowledging the weakening position of the pound and prices are going to see an 8% drop out in my neck of the woods. In Australia they're doubling prices.
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Apr 25, 2017 09:52
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For_Great_Justice posted:And now the personal attacks begin. Thank you ijyt. You're welcome.
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Apr 25, 2017 09:53
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:owned by noted indigent furry ijyt and his ability to hit the quote button! You owned yourself long ago.
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Apr 25, 2017 09:54
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Gw loves them Dollarydoos.
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Apr 25, 2017 10:12
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Xarbala posted:Everyone and their dog called it on this turning out to be to be the Age of the Emperor I'd wait until there's actual rules to read
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Apr 25, 2017 11:23
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Thirsty Dog posted:I'd wait until there's actual rules to read Hasn't stopped the death thread getting in a hissy fit before.
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Apr 25, 2017 12:43
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Hixson posted:Guys, there's a whole lot of mad posting going on in here. Everyone take a deep breath and post something nice! I'll start: This, but ironically. I get upset that a company that I admittedly never engage with does things I find disappointing, but yet I can't stop posting. 
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Apr 25, 2017 12:44
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Angry internet thread needs to move goalposts so fast in order to justify remaining angry that now GW is only doing the bare minimum (a.k.a not enough) because they're not offering FULL REFUNDS ON MODELS. Sad!
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Apr 25, 2017 12:53
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Wow that was the wrong thread...
NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Apr 25, 2017 |
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Apr 25, 2017 12:56
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