|
Thundercloud posted:Garro did it first. Funny thought but Guillimans actually younger than quite a lot of marines today, hes at most like 3-400 years old.
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 14:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 19:45 |
|
|
ANAmal.net posted:I liked the part where Guilliman takes about two seconds after waking up before going completely apeshit and splattering a bunch of heretics. And his little interlude looking around Macragge like "what the hell people", then decides to just fake giving a poo poo because he's gotta do what he's gotta do. Otherwise the fluff was mostly bad and dumb, just page after page of Guilliman punching his way through the rogue's gallery of Chaos mans with no real consequences or sense of danger on either side. GW has, for the first time in 40k, two Primarchs meet up, and all they do is gently caress each other up for a while until one of them gets drop-kicked back into the warp. Fluff-wise the entire book felt like a wasted opportunity. I also bought the book just for the fluff, same as GS2. Yeah that part when Guilliman wakes up and wrecks dudes was OK. The biggest problem with GS3 is that it doesn't really have a point of view character. We get a couple in GS1, and Cawl's bits are probably the most interesting as a result, and most of GS2 is told from Yvraine's point of view, which is probably why it's the best of the bunch. GS3 really needed to take us deeper into Guilliman's head, or give us a different POV character, but instead almost everything is told from an outsider's view so it feels like breathless nerd descriptions of what's happening. And the way the book sets up mysteries is just dumb as hell--leaving out key details of an event is not a mystery guys, it's just sloppy storytelling. Part of the issue for me is that I don't really care about the depictions of most of the battles/fights and they all run together over a hundred or so pages. Stuff like Mortarion's plague and Fulgrim's crown are more interesting to me than who kills who in what way. And yeah, agreed on Guilliman and Magnus meeting--that should have been way more interesting than it was. quote:EDIT: Ok the other thing that ironically owns about Gathering Storm 3 is that it adds an Ultramarines-specific table for Warlord traits, and then Guilliman, who is literally the Ultramarine, gets all the traits off of an entirely different table. I was OK with this because it was a mechanical way to show that Ultramarines are different from the dude who's been in stasis for thousands of years Pawl posted:Summoning Stuff Thanks for posting this. This is interesting, and a good way to handle summoned units so they don't just turn into free poo poo. Something that hasn't been answered--I don't think--is whether we'll have scatter dice in 8th. I assume they're also going away, since templates are being done away with. I'm hoping they are going away because summoned/teleporting units scattering was one of the game's least fun mechanics. How does AoS handle summoning/teleporting in? TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Apr 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 14:25
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:it feels like breathless nerd descriptions of what's happening. It reads exactly like a transcript of an author's proposal delivered over the phone to a commissioning agent. I would put money on this being a product of the period of when BL and design studio were thrown into a thresher. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if those books weren't given as many drafts as normal because they were a discarded legacy investment from Kirby's plan to Squat the setting. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Apr 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 14:34
|
|
|
Lovely Joe Stalin posted:It reads exactly like a transcript of an author's proposal delivered over the phone to a commissioning agent. I would put money on this being a product of the period of when BL and design studio were thrown into a thresher. When was that? Gathering Storm 2 was pretty good and my impression is that these were probably written around the same time
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 14:38
|
|
|
Couple of years back i think, it was the year where BL put out like, one Heresy novel. They had actual authors tasked to write poo poo for codex books and so on. Behind the scenes it was a nightmare apparently, and coincides with Abnett going AWOL from BL. I'm likely wrong and it was just written by a moron and approved by someone with no shame, but I'd rather think there was a solid explanation for that execrable waste of potential. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Apr 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 14:39
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:Something that hasn't been answered--I don't think--is whether we'll have scatter dice in 8th. I assume they're also going away, since templates are being done away with. I'm hoping they are going away because summoned/teleporting units scattering was one of the game's least fun mechanics. It's very unlikely, as their new very stupid dice cubes lack a scatter die:  Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Couple of years back i think, it was the year where BL put out like, one Heresy novel. They had actual authors tasked to write poo poo for codex books and so on. Behind the scenes it was a nightmare apparently, and coincides with Abnett going AWOL from BL. They actually had BL authors write the fluff in codexes? I thought that was an almost never thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 14:42
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:
Summoning works through spells or abilities from Wizards. Assuming a successful spell cast, controlling player sets up the summoned squad within 16" of the caster, but 9" away from any enemy unit. Summed units cannot move, but they can shoot and attempt a charge if something's in range. Summoned units can also have any equipment loadout they want per their warscroll, but since AoS doesn't factor equipment into points cost I don't know how this'll work in 8th if they port the same system over.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 14:47
|
|
|
SteelMentor posted:Summoning works through spells or abilities from Wizards. Assuming a successful spell cast, controlling player sets up the summoned squad within 16" of the caster, but 9" away from any enemy unit. Summed units cannot move, but they can shoot and attempt a charge if something's in range. Summoned units can also have any equipment loadout they want per their warscroll, but since AoS doesn't factor equipment into points cost I don't know how this'll work in 8th if they port the same system over. Ah, cool. Huge improvement on deep striking, hope we get something similar in 8th. Deep Strike Mishaps are like the Platonic ideal of a "feel bad" moment in gaming
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 14:52
|
|
|
MasterSlowPoke posted:They actually had BL authors write the fluff in codexes? I thought that was an almost never thing. https://trackofwords.wordpress.com/2017/02/11/black-library-there-and-back-again-with-laurie-goulding/
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 14:52
|
|
|
Mishaps are OK when it's a super risky deepstrike but sometimes you just roll a max scatter and get poo poo on.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 15:13
|
|
|
Lord Twisted posted:Mishaps are OK when it's a super risky deepstrike but sometimes you just roll a max scatter and get poo poo on. The problem is that mishaps are so brutal you end up not wanting to Deep Strike units at all. Then you factor in that the Deep Striking units also have to be held in reserves, come in on a random turn, and are typically some of the more expensive/important models in your army, and having a single mishap (or just scattering too far in the wrong direction) can swing an entire game. It's just not a good mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 15:17
|
|
|
Warpath: Firefight handles mishaps by allowing the opponent to redeploy the unit within 12" of the target point. It's a good compromise between no risk and ohgodmyunitisdestroyedthankyoudice. In Epic: Armageddon, units never scatter but each takes suppression on a roll of a 1, which works great in the context of that game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 15:32
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:The problem is that mishaps are so brutal you end up not wanting to Deep Strike units at all. Tried doing a Deep Strike during one of my few 40k games from a Valkyrie. Rolled a mishap so bad it let the opponent place the models so they ended up at a table edge and then got picked apart one by one.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 15:33
|
|
|
spacegoat posted:Warpath: Firefight handles mishaps by allowing the opponent to redeploy the unit within 12" of the target point. It's a good compromise between no risk and ohgodmyunitisdestroyedthankyoudice. gently caress that too. I'm already paying for the Deep Strike by paying points for the models and not being able to assault for a turn. I don't need the extra randomness on top of it Cooked Auto posted:Tried doing a Deep Strike during one of my few 40k games from a Valkyrie. Rolled a mishap so bad it let the opponent place the models so they ended up at a table edge and then got picked apart one by one. This happened to one of ANAmal.net's shithouse Deathwing idiot squads when we were doing a game of Stronghold Assault (the breakthrough mission), which uses the table long-ways. They didn't arrive until turn 3 and mishapped into us deploying them, so we put them on the far corner of the table and they spent all game trying to run to a position of relevance. They may as well have been destroyed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 15:44
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:The problem is that mishaps are so brutal you end up not wanting to Deep Strike units at all. Then you factor in that the Deep Striking units also have to be held in reserves, come in on a random turn, and are typically some of the more expensive/important models in your army, and having a single mishap (or just scattering too far in the wrong direction) can swing an entire game. It's just not a good mechanic. Just played a game about two weeks ago where my transcendent c'tan which was my only real way of damaging the tau backline mishapped twice, first going back in reserve and second dieing. Losing 250 points like that feels really bad. (I did not have a chance in hell of winning after that)
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 15:48
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:gently caress that too. I'm already paying for the Deep Strike by paying points for the models and not being able to assault for a turn. I don't need the extra randomness on top of it  In FF you can assault the turn you deep strike.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 15:52
|
|
|
General Olloth posted:Just played a game about two weeks ago where my transcendent c'tan which was my only real way of damaging the tau backline mishapped twice, first going back in reserve and second dieing. That's the problem with Deep Strike--the best case scenario is that what you expect to happen occurs. Literally every other outcome is bad to varying degrees. spacegoat posted:
Most of the units I Deep Strike with in 40k can too 
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 15:52
|
|
|
I am still coming to terms with what level of shittiness I will forgive in the Imperium fluff and rulea if the Ork rules are good again.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 16:00
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:Most of the units I Deep Strike with in 40k can too Most? Good for you, you must be real proud
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 16:03
|
|
|
None of mine can because they don't have formations for spoiled snowflakes 
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 16:06
|
|
|
spacegoat posted:Most? Good for you, you must be real proud This is the point where I tell you that I don't particularly care which units can and can't assault out of deep strike in another game I don't play with different rules. The only reason it matters in 40k is because units are protected while in an assault, and because I can't control where they end up. If I could put them into cover 100% of the time off Deep Strike, I wouldn't really care that they couldn't assault immediately. The point is, it's context specific and assaulting out of deep strike isn't a game-defining thing for me e: Also 40k has bad rules. This is an opinion I haven't been shy about expressing Soulfucker posted:None of mine can because they don't have formations for spoiled snowflakes git good bro TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Apr 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 16:12
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:This happened to one of ANAmal.net's shithouse Deathwing idiot squads when we were doing a game of Stronghold Assault (the breakthrough mission), which uses the table long-ways. They didn't arrive until turn 3 and mishapped into us deploying them, so we put them on the far corner of the table and they spent all game trying to run to a position of relevance. They may as well have been destroyed. In my case they vere IG Vets and were like the last ones to get killed. Picked apart by a bunch of Dark Eldar Venoms if I remember right. It had already been a terrible game so that didn't really lighten my mood all that much. First and only time I bothered with Deep Striking I think.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 16:16
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:gently caress that too. I'm already paying for the Deep Strike by paying points for the models and not being able to assault for a turn. I don't need the extra randomness on top of it This ruled, and was almost as good as when ShadowDaesh instantly lost 250 points of Wolf Guard to the warp, in a 750 point game, completely loving him over. It's hilariously spiteful when a DS attempt goes wrong, which points to it being something that doesn't belong in a game that's at least nominally supposed to be fun for both parties. While I do appreciate the good feeling of pulling off a successful deep strike gamble, it fuckin' sucks rear end that half the time you either actually lose the unit or effectively lose the unit. And like you said, there's enough drawbacks to it already, to the point where I just don't deep strike unless I have a way to negate the scatter (Belial, Ravenwing with teleport homers, etc).
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
ANAmal.net posted:This ruled, and was almost as good as when ShadowDaesh instantly lost 250 points of Wolf Guard to the warp, in a 750 point game, completely loving him over. It's hilariously spiteful when a DS attempt goes wrong, which points to it being something that doesn't belong in a game that's at least nominally supposed to be fun for both parties. Yeah I should clarify, that 250 points of my c'tan was in 1200 points out of 2200 on my side for a 2v2. My ork friend was my ally. The tau ripped us to shreds without any way to kill his big suits. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 16:34
|
|
|
If were talking about deepstrike mishaps everyone should ask Hixson how he feels about teleporting in a big unit of sekhmet terminators with a praetor in it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 16:36
|
|
|
tallkidwithglasses posted:If were talking about deepstrike mishaps everyone should ask Hixson how he feels about teleporting in a big unit of sekhmet terminators with a praetor in it. Fortunately I was there to ensure we still won.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 16:41
|
|
|
Pawl posted:This last part is incorrect. You cannot resummon a destroyed unit indefinitely. Yep your right I mistook the replacing slain models thing for being able to summon more units.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 17:25
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:
They all follow the same format with very little difference.Though I think a few spells change it a tiny bit. quote:Raise Skeletons has a casting value of 5. So pretty you set them up within 18" of the caster but they can't be too close to enemy units. The new layout for 40 k units will probbably be like this as well. (With some differences as we know gear will cost points) https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-skeleton-warriors-en.pdf MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Apr 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 17:30
|
|
|
Teleport Homers, especially in zone Mortalis make deep striking so thematic and effective.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 18:05
|
|
|
Article on the Community page just came out with statlines previews for some units: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/ e: Initiative is gone, WS/BS were replaced by target values (e.g. 3+), Strength and Toughness are still there. There's still a SvT table of some kind, but I think there's no ceiling anymore (real low strength still wounds on a 6+, presumably), stats aren't capped at 10 Space Marines now Ld 7 Dreadnoughts have T7, 8 Wounds, 3+ save Terminators have 2 Wounds, 5" movement, 2+ save (Space Marines have 6") The Super-Heavy designation is gone too--just varying wounds/toughness TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Apr 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 18:14
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:Article on the Community page just came out with statlines previews for some units: Nevermind my earlier post. Looks like the statlines will be similar to how they used to be.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 18:21
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:Article on the Community page just came out with statlines previews for some units: Sad we're not getting 2 wound Marines and 4 wound Terminators but these seem neat.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 18:24
|
|
|
mango sentinel posted:Sad we're not getting 2 wound Marines and 4 wound Terminators but these seem neat. Ditto, but 2 wound terminators is nice. Now we just need to see how armor save modifiers are going to shape up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 18:25
|
|
|
Lack of initiative means that we will get alternating combat activation, book it. The only other possible system is the 'attack in your phase' or 'attack in your phase then bounce' like KoW and the strikes first thing means those aren't happening. It's really looking like AoS
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 18:26
|
|
|
mango sentinel posted:Sad we're not getting 2 wound Marines and 4 wound Terminators but these seem neat. I wouldn't be surprised to see special rules that make these a bit more durable, especially terminators. AoS has a bunch of units that get to ignore save modifiers up to a certain value, or re-roll saves.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 18:29
|
|
|
TKIY posted:Lack of initiative means that we will get alternating combat activation, book it. As in: each side moves, each side shoots, each side fights? Or each side does the turn for a unit?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 18:29
|
|
|
TKIY posted:Lack of initiative means that we will get alternating combat activation, book it. The charging unit goes first, it's in the article e: No idea what happens after that, though TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Apr 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 18:28
|
|
|
I like the sound of a static stat for both BS and WS. I also really like the movement stat. Makes much more sense than everything moving the same.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 18:32
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:The charging unit goes first, it's in the article Right but not every round will have a charger. I'm guessing that it goes: - All chargers go - Defending player and attacking player alternate activations
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 18:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 19:45 |
|
|
Zuul the Cat posted:I like the sound of a static stat for both BS and WS. I also really like the movement stat. Makes much more sense than everything moving the same. Considering how this gets rid of all the funky vehicle/flyer movement rules it's great. All you need to say is 'vehicle can only disembark passengers if it moves 6" or less'. That saves tons of rule craziness.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2017 18:33
|
|