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I actually wonder if the map even correlates beyond superficial resemblance. She came in 5th in Nantes (4th in LA as a whole), and a lot of the paler regions aren't "coastal elites" of the 50s, they were poor, rural areas that Paris barely remembered existed. Provence is also one of the wealthiest regions of France.
Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Apr 25, 2017 |
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Apr 25, 2017 10:14
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Agnosticnixie posted:I actually wonder if the map even correlates beyond superficial resemblance. She came in 5th in Nantes (4th in LA as a whole), and a lot of the paler regions aren't "coastal elites" of the 50s, they were poor, rural areas that Paris barely remembered existed. Provence is also one of the wealthiest regions of France. It's possible that those poorer (in the 50s) areas went from that to having service industry jobs, while the richer industry-heavy areas turned into rust belts. And I think overall wealth would matter less than income disparity. But it does look like there are other factors in play. I'm curious if it does explain why Cote d'Or is a macronist island, though. Edit: True vvvv Kassad fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Apr 25, 2017 |
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Apr 25, 2017 10:24
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Kassad posted:I'm curious if it does explain why Cote d'Or is a macronist island, though. I think you have to remember that "winning the first round" might only be by a very small amount when looking at these maps.
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Apr 25, 2017 10:25
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Inferring anything from a superposition of the wealth map and the electoral map would be a bit facile, but as vexing as it is for the left, it's pretty undeniable at this point that the FN base is largely poor and uneducated. http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/politique/elections-regionales-2015/20151208.OBS0971/elections-regionales-qui-a-vote-fn.html https://fr.statista.com/statistiques/675022/intentions-vote-elections-presidentielles-france-par-csp/
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Apr 25, 2017 10:30
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i love the uneducated
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Apr 25, 2017 10:44
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Macron is a piece of poo poo for agreeing to debate her. He's part of the problrm, so loving much. Don't really disagree with any of this, but I don't think it'll turn out so poorly? MLP is an awful debater, she's been raised in a cocoon and crumbles at the slightest bit of pushback. I expected a bit of the same from Macron but he actually held his composure and did pretty OK. It was really only Melanchon and Poutou who managed to expose how empty she is, but I think Macron could succeed in further marginalizing her instead of legitimizing her. Which, I agree sounds like a stupid thing to say about agreeing to a 1v1 debate, but she's really, truly bad at it. It's certainly a risk and I hate that I'm even rooting for it at this point but here we are. edit: still leaning toward abstaining, even if I'm rooting for Macron to have a good performance.
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Apr 25, 2017 10:46
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lost in postation posted:Surely 50 years would have been enough to create a effective social safety net and reasonable education policies so that the workers' children wouldn't be destitute and unemployable in a modern economy, though. No, because that's the kind of things that we can no longer afford, because France today is much poorer than it was in the 1960s. At least that's what austerians keep saying.
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Apr 25, 2017 11:28
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All those destitute children in France lol
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Apr 25, 2017 12:28
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Ahahaha now Boutin is calling rightwing electors to "revolutionarily" vote for Lepen from her twitter.
Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Apr 25, 2017 |
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Apr 25, 2017 12:31
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Toplowtech posted:Ahahaha now Boutin is calling rightwing electors to "revolutionarily" vote for Lepen from her twitter. when i think revolution i think boutin
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Apr 25, 2017 12:40
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Kurtofan posted:when i think revolution i think boutin She would have made pretty good guillotine fodder !
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Apr 25, 2017 12:42
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Cat Mattress posted:No, because that's the kind of things that we can no longer afford, because France today is much poorer than it was in the 1960s. At least that's what austerians keep saying. Aristos right before the revolution were constantly telling themselves that everything was miserable because they couldn't afford one more servant and other bullshit like this when most of them had never been wealthier and France had technically never been that prosperous. Which we all know how it ended.
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Apr 25, 2017 12:42
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Geriatric Pirate posted:All those destitute children in France lol Their "children" are now middle-aged, you dunce.
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Apr 25, 2017 12:59
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MeLKoR posted:
That was trully the greatest moment of that generation.too bad it was all down hill from there. Still,raising a glass to that handsome motherfucker today,and everyone who punched fascism in the face while being hunted by the secret police. Also a reminder that our former president granted retirees pension to the former head of the secret police years before granting it to the guy who was the literal face of the revolution.gently caress cavaco Silva,I will dance a little jig on your grave.
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Apr 25, 2017 13:22
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eshock posted:Don't really disagree with any of this, but I don't think it'll turn out so poorly? I don't know that he'll lose the debate. It'll be a festival of platitudes though, and the level of discourse will be awful. That's not what makes me angry though. What makes me angry is that Marine Le Pen will continue to be treated as if she were a legitimate candidate, with legitimate ideas that deserve to be debated. She has been treated as such for a good decade now. gently caress that poo poo.
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Apr 25, 2017 13:28
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Flowers For Algeria posted:What makes me angry is that Marine Le Pen will continue to be treated as if she were a legitimate candidate, with legitimate ideas that deserve to be debated. She has been treated as such for a good decade now. gently caress that poo poo. She is though? She has the same right to stand as anyone else. She's a horrible person with horrible ideas, but that doesn't make her illegitimate. She deserves to be debated, where someone hopefully crushes her ideas into the ground.
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Apr 25, 2017 13:38
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TheRat posted:She is though? She has the same right to stand as anyone else. She's a horrible person with horrible ideas, but that doesn't make her illegitimate. She deserves to be debated, where someone hopefully crushes her ideas into the ground. This is the part that typically doesn't happen. Her and her people have been on 24/7 news channels for years (there's a joke that Philippot should be on the BFMTV payroll, considering how often he's there) and they are almost never challenged on their bullshit in a meaningful way. One debate won't undo a decade of damage.
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Apr 25, 2017 13:47
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TheRat posted:She is though? She has the same right to stand as anyone else. She's a horrible person with horrible ideas, but that doesn't make her illegitimate. She deserves to be debated, where someone hopefully crushes her ideas into the ground. Yeah, that didn't work with the OG nazis either.
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Apr 25, 2017 13:58
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There's also the fact that the FN and the hangers-on of the fachosphère have successfully sown the kind of counterfactual logic and mistrust for the mainstream media that make logical rebuttals / fact-checking largely ineffective on her core electorate. They could be have an effect on undecided voters, though.
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Apr 25, 2017 13:58
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TheRat posted:She is though? She has the same right to stand as anyone else. She's a horrible person with horrible ideas, but that doesn't make her illegitimate. She deserves to be debated, where someone hopefully crushes her ideas into the ground. nazis are not legitimate debate targets, they are targets for brick throwing
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Apr 25, 2017 14:03
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OTOH refusing the debate would be turned into "coward Macron afraid of our fearless leader" memes in 5 seconds flat, having her blow a fuse on live TV is actually better.
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Apr 25, 2017 14:08
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Yeah, it's a few years too late for that. It's also why there's so much uncertainty about the "barrage républicain" thing this time compared to back in 2002. It's hard to see the FN as a party to shun at any cost when UMP/LR bastards have been parroting their ideas for years.
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Apr 25, 2017 14:14
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Kassad posted:Yeah, it's a few years too late for that. It's also why there's so much uncertainty about the "barrage républicain" thing this time compared to back in 2002. It's hard to see the FN as a party to shun at any cost when UMP/LR bastards have been parroting their ideas for years.
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Apr 25, 2017 14:19
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Yeah, you see a lot of noise about Mélenchon not saying to vote for Macron, but even with Fillon doing that, polls are predicting that 30% of his voters will go on to vote for Le Pen (for Mélenchon, it's about 10%, but more are predicted to abstain than Fillon voters). Macron isn't likely to get the same kind of landslide as Chirac did.
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Apr 25, 2017 14:27
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So #jamaismacron is trending here in France. A glance at the tweets reveals many #maga accounts, US flags in the profile...hmm.
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Apr 25, 2017 15:18
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canepazzo posted:So #jamaismacron is trending here in France. A glance at the tweets reveals many #maga accounts, US flags in the profile...hmm. My favorite is "Macron wants to make France into Germany. Sound good???" How can i be angry against that level of stupidity.  Honestly if it's POL and the pro-trump guys, they aren't helping Le Pen. Even Poutine hire trolls who at least can type their script in a decent French. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Apr 25, 2017 |
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Apr 25, 2017 15:27
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Toplowtech posted:My favorite is "Macron wants to make France into Germany. Sound good???" From noted political commentator "Kekmagician3.0" no less.
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Apr 25, 2017 15:30
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france into germany would probably be better than what we have right now tbf
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Apr 25, 2017 15:44
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Kurtofan posted:france into germany would probably be better than what we have right now tbf Can't wait for my 0 hour contract and desperate decrepit old guy filling my cart at checkout
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Apr 25, 2017 15:45
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Flowers For Algeria posted:I don't know that he'll lose the debate. It'll be a festival of platitudes though, and the level of discourse will be awful. That's not what makes me angry though. That ship has sailed, her name's on the ballot, people are going to vote for her in 2 weeks. IMO, this is the most damaging moment to MLP's public persona that I can remember (link is to English-subtitled version): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/05/french-election-factory-worker-philippe-poutou-emerges-as-star-of-tv-debate I'm 100% on board w/ de-legitimization, but I can already hear the smug self-satisfaction in her voice if Macron were to refuse the debate and prove the system is against Pauvre Marine again. At this point, letting some sunlight in can only help. Basically this: BobMorane posted:OTOH refusing the debate would be turned into "coward Macron afraid of our fearless leader" memes in 5 seconds flat, having her blow a fuse on live TV is actually better. eshock fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Apr 25, 2017 |
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Apr 25, 2017 15:52
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The correct reaction isn't to not show up. It's to "debate" her by calling out anything nazi and/or putinist she spews, no matter how small or silly. Of course, Macron's a neolib, he won't want to hurt the poor fascist's feelings by making GBS threads on her.
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Apr 25, 2017 15:55
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unpacked robinhood posted:Can't wait for my 0 hour contract and desperate decrepit old guy filling my cart at checkout There's no checkout personell in Germany, just cashiers and you're supposed to pack the stuff yourself. 
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Apr 25, 2017 16:14
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Honj Steak posted:There's no checkout personell in Germany, just cashiers and you're supposed to pack the stuff yourself. The decrepit old guy thing isn't made up. Obviously it's just a one time anecdote but I remember being shocked at super old people doing poo poo jobs like pushing carts, mopping floors and selling hotdogs on the street
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Apr 25, 2017 16:27
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unpacked robinhood posted:The decrepit old guy thing isn't made up. did you go to potemkin Germany or something? where the hell was that?
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Apr 25, 2017 16:35
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:did you go to potemkin Germany or something? where the hell was that? Couldn't tell you really, we were driving aimlessly near the border between luxembourg, France and Belgium.
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Apr 25, 2017 16:41
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unpacked robinhood posted:Couldn't tell you really, we were driving aimlessly near the border between luxembourg, France and Belgium. I dunno man, obviously poo poo is much worse over here, but it's not America or something. Universal retirement age is still ~65y, you can always weasel out of having to take a job and keep getting unemployment benefits and floors in shops are cleaned by machines or cheap immigrants 
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Apr 25, 2017 16:50
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:I dunno man, obviously poo poo is much worse over here, but it's not America or something. Universal retirement age is still ~65y, you can always weasel out of having to take a job and keep getting unemployment benefits and floors in shops are cleaned by machines or cheap immigrants Yeah it was a kneejerk reaction do Kurtofan saying he'd rather we'd be like Germany because it's the kind of thing you hear from the usual suspects to justify less social protection and workers rights, because look: Germany. *conveniently forgets about workers unions being a thing over there* unpacked robinhood fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Apr 25, 2017 |
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Apr 25, 2017 17:09
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Kurtofan posted:france into germany would probably be better than what we have right now tbf On the long term, definitely not. Germany is a dying country. Unemployment is low because the German population shrinks, so there's a lot of old people who need care and very few young people who need jobs.
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Apr 25, 2017 17:30
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Cat Mattress posted:On the long term, definitely not. Germany is a dying country. Unemployment is low because the German population shrinks, so there's a lot of old people who need care and very few young people who need jobs. They're bringing lots of good people in to make up for it
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Apr 25, 2017 17:32
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I doubt a refugee pupulation will make much of a difference in any direction.
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Apr 25, 2017 18:03
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