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actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

I booked an award flight (business class wooo) to Vienna. I'm planning to stay a few days then go to Italy. Should I look to be staying near the central train station? It looks like there's an area called Wieden which is between that and the city center.

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Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014

actionjackson posted:

I booked an award flight (business class wooo) to Vienna. I'm planning to stay a few days then go to Italy. Should I look to be staying near the central train station? It looks like there's an area called Wieden which is between that and the city center.

Anything within walking distance from the Gürtel Straße will get you into the city centre in no time either via U-Bahn or tram. We stayed in the ibis Styles Wien before christmas and it was really rather convenient overall even from there (you can take the U6 from Nußdorfer Straße or walk the short bit to Spittelau, for example). If you insist on walking absolutely everything and want to forego public transport, you will want to look more towards the city centre, however, probably close to the Ringstraße. It probably also depends on how much money you want to spend on the hotel etc.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

Thank you

thistravel
Feb 17, 2006

PT6A posted:

If you don't have specific things you want to photograph and a good reason to do so: don't take it. You will be "that guy" in almost any attraction, especially one that makes you put your bag through a scanner. Enjoy the experience unencumbered, and take your camera if you go hiking or something.

I agree, its bulky, expensive and cumbersome.

I have a google pixel that takes excellent photos supplemented with a G7X.

Pablo Bluth
Sep 7, 2007

I've made a huge mistake.

Saladman posted:

Don't visit too many museums. British Museum is unique. Tate Modern is usually fun but check their exhibit list. Tower of London is OK if you really like castles and/or want to see the crown jewels, but it's pretty unremarkable. The National Gallery is incredibly boring unless you really know your British history in which case it's apparently fascinating, but even after watching The Tudors it bored me out of my mind. I've probably been to a dozen other museums in London in the past few years, and yet I can't remember any of the rest. The Greenwich meridian museum is cool if you like old mechanical watches and clocks or old sailing navigation equipment (I do, but it might not be everyone's cuppa tea).
I would have said The National Gallery has a pretty diverse collection of paintings, with few of the big draws by British artists. Tate Britain on the other hand would require an interest in British history, given it's dedication to British artists. Sure you haven't mixed the two up?

I do like visiting the Natural History Museum, but I'm not sure it necessarily particularly unique compared against other leading natural history museums; it's too easy for all of these institutions to gravitate towards showing off the same/similar specimens. Next door to the NHM, there's the Science Museum and V&A. I highly recommend the former for anyone with a technological bent (given our role in the Industrial revolution, it's got some important objects housed. I always find seeing an Apollo module and the world oldest surviving train in the same room to be a humbling experience.) and the latter which has the world largest collection of decorative art and design.

With big galleries and museums, it's worth looking at what paid-entry temporary shows they've got on display - a lot of them tend to be very well received.

greazeball
Feb 4, 2003



Any tips for Oslo?

My wife and I are going for about 5 days at the end of May (Ascension weekend--is that a big holiday there? Will things be closed?). We've got the city app and will definitely be doing a fjord cruise as well as a bike tour and maybe a walking tour. What are the must-see things in Oslo? We like art, history, museums, architecture, nature and also just wandering around and people watching. Any restaurant recommendations? My wife's vegetarian but I'm not so good places that cater to both (although I'm happy to eat a few veggie meals too) would be great. How useful will learning a few words of Norwegian be?

ALFbrot
Apr 17, 2002

Bollock Monkey posted:

For proper Dutch fare, pay a visit to Moeders - it's a quirky little restaurant that serves tasty food in the style of Dutch mothers. I took some American friends and they really liked it.

Entropist posted:

Also, The Pancake Bakery for Dutch pancakes (can be dinner), and Winkel 43 for Dutch apple pie (or Dutch dinner).

PT6A posted:

A sturdy umbrella and a good coat.

We're back! And while I really appreciated all the recommendations and help I got from the thread, I wanted to thank these ones specifically. Moeders was amazing homestyle food, and The Pancake Bakery and Winkel 43 were both exceptional as well.

However, that last one really came into play, as it was cold and windy while we were there, with it spitting rain and sleet at us a few times. Luckily, we didn't have to pick a specific day when we bought our Keukenhof tickets, so we were able to change plans and go down there on the day that was the nicest.

Thanks again!

Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014

greazeball posted:

Any tips for Oslo?

My wife and I are going for about 5 days at the end of May (Ascension weekend--is that a big holiday there? Will things be closed?). We've got the city app and will definitely be doing a fjord cruise as well as a bike tour and maybe a walking tour. What are the must-see things in Oslo? We like art, history, museums, architecture, nature and also just wandering around and people watching. Any restaurant recommendations? My wife's vegetarian but I'm not so good places that cater to both (although I'm happy to eat a few veggie meals too) would be great. How useful will learning a few words of Norwegian be?

The National Gallery isn't bad, and if you like Munch, the Munch Museum has some nice things. The Viking Ship Museum is fairly small but I enjoyed it, while the Norsk Folkemuseum is practically next door and has a nice replica wooden stave church. The Frammuseet deals with Amundsen, and the layout with the ship is pretty cool inside. From there, you can take a ferry over to city hall, which makes for a nice, scenic view of the city centre from the water.

If the weather is nice, Frognerparken is well worth it chiefly for the Vigeland statues in the Vigelandsanlegget. Similarly, if it happens to be quite warm already, Akershus Festning will be quite packed with people, so it offers a nice (elevated) view over the city centre and harbour as well as the potential for people watching.

The Opera is a rather neat modern building with nice views. The area around the National Theatre, the Royal Palace, Ibsenmuseet etc. is lovely but also really rather hard to miss, since it's the centre of town, so you will almost assuredly end up there one way or the other.

I can't really recommend restaurants, since it has been a while for me, unfortunately.

edit: Regarding language; it probably doesn't matter, since people usually are alright with English either way, and they will probably switch either way unless they are fairly confident you will both understand them and be able to follow up on any questions. Some basic things like "Hej", "Takk" etc. are easy to learn, however.

Hollow Talk fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Apr 24, 2017

Cheesemaster200
Feb 11, 2004

Guard of the Citadel
I arrive in LHR on Thursday @ 9:50AM and depart LHR on Day 4 @ 3:40PM. Essentially two full days and two half days in the UK.

I have been to London numerous times and seen most of the major tourist attractions. I was thinking of doing something more afield, potentially 2-3 nights in Edinburgh. Is this worth it? The train is only 4 hours, and it would be an interesting trip since I am by myself. I have never been to Scotland, so I thought I would try it out.

Should I do that or try to stay in and around London some more? London is a great city to just wander around in and I could surely keep myself busy. What about around in England? I have always wanted to see Stonehenge.

quote:

My wife and I are going for about 5 days at the end of May (Ascension weekend--is that a big holiday there? Will things be closed?).
Ugh... I just released I will be in Venice for this poo poo. I was wondering why everything was so expensive.

Cheesemaster200 fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Apr 25, 2017

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

Jesus, Cork is a shithole. I'm sorry if you live here. Not being polite, I'm just genuinely sorry.

Thanks very much for suggesting the Liberty Grill though, because that was genuinely great and at least takes the edge off. Would have gone to Paradiso but honestly, just arriving here killed all my desire to do anything fancy. I'm not even gonna drink cause I want to get out as soon as possible tomorrow. Really disappointing last day to an otherwise great trip.

... how feasible is it to drive from Cork to Dublin, go to city centre with public transport cause Jesus gently caress taking the car into that abyss, have a good lunch and be at the airport with the car at around 4pm?

greazeball
Feb 4, 2003



My Lovely Horse posted:

... how feasible is it to drive from Cork to Dublin, go to city centre with public transport cause Jesus gently caress taking the car into that abyss, have a good lunch and be at the airport with the car at around 4pm?

It looks like you can get from Cork all the way to the airport in about 3 hours according to Google maps. The airport will probably have the best express bus service into town anyway. Leave around 8 or 9, drop the car off, see if you can check in your bags/leave them in a locker, then take Aircoach down to O'Connell Street. It takes around 30 minutes each way (leaving every 30 minutes) and it'll cost you €11 return.

MagicCube
May 25, 2004

Cheesemaster200 posted:

I arrive in LHR on Thursday @ 9:50AM and depart LHR on Day 4 @ 3:40PM. Essentially two full days and two half days in the UK.

I have been to London numerous times and seen most of the major tourist attractions. I was thinking of doing something more afield, potentially 2-3 nights in Edinburgh. Is this worth it? The train is only 4 hours, and it would be an interesting trip since I am by myself. I have never been to Scotland, so I thought I would try it out.

Should I do that or try to stay in and around London some more? London is a great city to just wander around in and I could surely keep myself busy. What about around in England? I have always wanted to see Stonehenge.

Edinburgh - Good. London's medium to lesser known sites - Good. Most day-trips out of London - Good. Stonehenge - Bad.

Really boils down to what you personally want. Obviously staying in London would be easier and there is tons to see that you probably haven't already. On the other hand, Edinburgh and Scotland is something new for you and a very nice place to go. There are also a bunch of little day trips you could do from London if you want while still being close for your flights in and out. Bath, Oxford, York, etc.

Couldn't really give a definitive answer because I really enjoyed both places. I lean towards London because I recently spent about 4 months there and I feel like there was still a lot more stuff to do there. But new experiences are always nice as well.

Beachcomber
May 21, 2007

Another day in paradise.


Slippery Tilde
My wife and I have decided not to go to Disney because there's so much to do in London.

Are there any UK goodies I should makes sure to try? Also, I know Harrod's or Fortnum and Mason's "hampers" are kind of a big deal but I'm not sure why and they're kind of expensive. I've only seen them mentioned in books. What are you supposed to do with them?

We will definitely be eating:
Bacon Sandwich
Indian Food
A variety of biscuits
Scones with cream and jam (we've also done this in Sydney and Dublin)
Probably fish and chips at a place called The Seashell unless there's a better place
Food from stalls at various markets. I was thinking Camden but am open to suggestion

I feel like I'm forgetting some cultural food touchstones, I just really like to get into local food and don't want to kick myself when I get home for forgetting to try (insert food here)


Edit: Full English Breakfast :yum:

Beachcomber fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Apr 26, 2017

The Schwa
Jul 1, 2008

My Lovely Horse posted:

Jesus, Cork is a shithole. I'm sorry if you live here. Not being polite, I'm just genuinely sorry.

Thanks very much for suggesting the Liberty Grill though, because that was genuinely great and at least takes the edge off. Would have gone to Paradiso but honestly, just arriving here killed all my desire to do anything fancy. I'm not even gonna drink cause I want to get out as soon as possible tomorrow. Really disappointing last day to an otherwise great trip.

:chloe:

Sorry you had a crap time :shrug: I really enjoyed Cork. If 'just arriving there' had that much of an effect on you maybe it was less about Cork and more about you. Pity you didn't get to the Bierhaus, it's great.

webmeister
Jan 31, 2007

The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.

Beachcomber posted:

I feel like I'm forgetting some cultural food touchstones, I just really like to get into local food and don't want to kick myself when I get home for forgetting to try (insert food here)


Edit: Full English Breakfast :yum:

Here's a pretty decent list with recommended venues as well:
http://www.freetoursbyfoot.com/top-10-british-foods-london/

Pablo Bluth
Sep 7, 2007

I've made a huge mistake.
Jellied eels? That's a proper London regional dish.

Beachcomber
May 21, 2007

Another day in paradise.


Slippery Tilde

webmeister posted:

Here's a pretty decent list with recommended venues as well:
http://www.freetoursbyfoot.com/top-10-british-foods-london/

Thanks!

Pablo Bluth posted:

Jellied eels? That's a proper London regional dish.

The European Eel is critically endangered since 2010. :(


Edit: researching this put me on jugged hare and peach Melba, thanks!

Beachcomber fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Apr 26, 2017

Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014

My Lovely Horse posted:

Jesus, Cork is a shithole. I'm sorry if you live here. Not being polite, I'm just genuinely sorry.

Thanks very much for suggesting the Liberty Grill though, because that was genuinely great and at least takes the edge off. Would have gone to Paradiso but honestly, just arriving here killed all my desire to do anything fancy. I'm not even gonna drink cause I want to get out as soon as possible tomorrow. Really disappointing last day to an otherwise great trip.

... how feasible is it to drive from Cork to Dublin, go to city centre with public transport cause Jesus gently caress taking the car into that abyss, have a good lunch and be at the airport with the car at around 4pm?

I don't think you understood how this "drinking until things are pretty"-thing works! :confused:

Beachcomber posted:

Are there any UK goodies I should makes sure to try? Also, I know Harrod's or Fortnum and Mason's "hampers" are kind of a big deal but I'm not sure why and they're kind of expensive. I've only seen them mentioned in books. What are you supposed to do with them?

The hampers are just a selection of what F&M offers more generally and would maybe help if you cannot decide, I guess? I'd just go and pick a few things downstairs that look yummy, to be honest. F&M have some very nice tea blends (I like Queen Anne, for example, and last year's Christening Tea was very nice as well) as well as really rather tasty jams, marmalades, and chutneys. They also have some nice cookies, but those tend to be rather steeply priced considering how many you usually get. Be aware that you are essentially treating yourself, since their products are priced accordingly. F&M has lovely little things, but whether you care about those foods at all of course depends on you -- they are certainly not a necessity. The shop does make for a good base for christmas shopping, however! I prefer F&M to the East India Tea Company, for example, who I think are a bit odd when it comes to flavours, and whose packaging looks tacky. And even if you don't go and spend a lot (or anything), just go in and have a look regardless, it's quite nice and decently located either way.

Regarding food more generally, a sunday roast might not be a bad idea, though most decent pubs are not directly in the centre but slightly further afield and usually local pubs.

Hollow Talk fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Apr 26, 2017

Kopijeger
Feb 14, 2010

greazeball posted:

Any tips for Oslo?

My wife and I are going for about 5 days at the end of May (Ascension weekend--is that a big holiday there? Will things be closed?). We've got the city app and will definitely be doing a fjord cruise as well as a bike tour and maybe a walking tour. What are the must-see things in Oslo? We like art, history, museums, architecture, nature and also just wandering around and people watching. Any restaurant recommendations? My wife's vegetarian but I'm not so good places that cater to both (although I'm happy to eat a few veggie meals too) would be great. How useful will learning a few words of Norwegian be?

Ascension Day (25th of May only) is basically an extra Sunday: most shops will be closed, but most museums, restaurants and convenience stores will be open. visitoslo.com has more information. Aside from what has already been mentioned, at Bygdøy there is also the Kon-tiki museum and a "Maritime museum" that are worth a look if the subject matters interest you. Also, assuming decent weather it could be nice to take the five minute boat ride from the wharf by the city hall out to Hovedøya, a popular recreational spot with beaches, some woodland and the ruins of a medieval monastery and walk around. There are other small islands nearby serviced by the same boat. The Henie-Onstad Center is a bit out of the way in Sandvika, but has a decent collection of modern art. There are also the Contemporary Art Museum and the Astrup-Fearnley Museum for art, but I haven't visited them myself. The forested area called Nordmarka, north of the city, is also popular for recreational hiking. There are plenty of prepared trails to follow, but also completely legal to go outside them.

As mentioned earlier, most people are fluent in English, but I'd recommend learning basic politeness phrases as a gesture of respect. If you manage to say "takk" instead of "thank you", you will make a better impression overall.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

I'm willing to accept that it was me and not Cork. Maybe I get to go back one day under different circumstances to give it a proper chance. :(

Camden Market food stalls are alright if you stick to the ones in the lock area, but boy the area is overrun. You can find good food there but it's no fun navigating the place. There's a place that makes good ice cream freshly with liquid nitrogen. Also, find the used DVD shop upstairs if it still exists and the embittered owner will tell you all about the tourist crowds.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

Will the Eurocity train on Austrian railways from Vienna to Venice have wi-fi? I can't tell. Also is first class worth the extra 30 euros? It's about a 7.5 hour trip.

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005

actionjackson posted:

Will the Eurocity train on Austrian railways from Vienna to Venice have wi-fi? I can't tell. Also is first class worth the extra 30 euros? It's about a 7.5 hour trip.

I have no idea and yes, definitely on a long trip.

caberham
Mar 18, 2009

by Smythe
Grimey Drawer
Just get a data card geeze

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

caberham posted:

Just get a data card geeze

I have data coverage in Europe with Google Fi, but if there's wi-fi available that's even better

Saladman
Jan 12, 2010

actionjackson posted:

Will the Eurocity train on Austrian railways from Vienna to Venice have wi-fi? I can't tell. Also is first class worth the extra 30 euros? It's about a 7.5 hour trip.

First class is only worth it if it's an overnight trip where you want to sleep / nap, or if there's some event going on that would cause the carriages to be exceptionally full (though I'm pretty sure EC trains always guarantee and assign a seat to all tickets). Otherwise you get a marginally smaller seat, marginally more legroom, and a guaranteed power plug (which IME is never, ever a problem in second class even during major, busy commuting routes).

No idea about Wifi. I kind of doubt it. Wifi on trains seems to be something that exists in theory and is often advertised, but not so much in practice because they probably only have it on one train carriage of one train in the country's entire rail network. I'd love to find out this is wrong. Also sometimes trains go so fast that you can't use your cell phone's internet (like on France's TGVs, you can only use your cell phone's connection when the train has slowed down to pass through towns). I doubt this applies on the Vienna - Venice route though.


VVV: That was also my experience the one time I paid for it, like 6 years ago on DB. €5 for EDGE-speed internet access?? Sign me up.

Saladman fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Apr 27, 2017

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

In trains I've been on (mostly Netherlands and some other EU countries), there is wifi. It is advertised, and the network is there when you look for it. You can also connect to it.

Then, it's so horribly slow that you're lucky if you manage to load a page at all. Usually I don't even bother with it and just use my 4g.

I did hear they're trying to improve it, though. So YMMV.

Honj Steak
May 31, 2013

Hi there.
Deutsche Bahn recently introduced a WiFi in the ICEs that's good enough for surfing, texting and e-mails, but they ask you not to stream videos in order so that everyone gets some bandwidth.

orange sky
May 7, 2007

Honj Steak posted:

Deutsche Bahn recently introduced a WiFi in the ICEs that's good enough for surfing, texting and e-mails, but they ask you not to stream videos in order so that everyone gets some bandwidth.

People will definitely oblige

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

With the bandwidth you get, you don't want to watch videos. But they also partnered with a streaming service so you can stream selected movies and shows from onboard servers. I'm willing to bet the selection is crap and German language only, because Germany (on both accounts), but it's a good idea at least.

Raimondo
Apr 29, 2010
We've got a tripped planned for France/Spain last couple weeks in June. Fly into and spend 5 nights in Paris, 2 nights in Bordeaux, 3 nights Barcelona, and 4 nights then fly out from Madrid. There's going to be 6 of us.

For transportation between spots, we're thinking train, and I'm looking at raileurope.com. Is that probably the best choice for travel? Should I buy tickets as soon as they come available? I can buy a couple of the trips, but a couple seem to far out in advance.

For Bordeaux, we wanted to do a wine tasting tour, but we're finding that a lot of them have an 18+ age restriction. My niece, who this trip is for, is 17. Is that just a tour company thing, or do the wineries not allow under 18 people for some reason? Drinking age for beer/wine is 16+ in France right?

Raimondo fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Apr 27, 2017

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005

Saladman posted:

First class is only worth it if it's an overnight trip where you want to sleep / nap, or if there's some event going on that would cause the carriages to be exceptionally full (though I'm pretty sure EC trains always guarantee and assign a seat to all tickets). Otherwise you get a marginally smaller seat, marginally more legroom, and a guaranteed power plug (which IME is never, ever a problem in second class even during major, busy commuting routes).

You also have the advantage that no families ever buy first class tickets because 30E is nothing but 120E isn't, and on a 7.5 hour trip that is definitely something. If it's longer than 5h I always shell out the extra because being marginally more comfortable for that long is totally worth it.

Waci
May 30, 2011

A boy and his dog.

Raimondo posted:


For Bordeaux, we wanted to do a wine tasting tour, but we're finding that a lot of them have an 18+ age restriction. My niece, who this trip is for, is 17. Is that just a tour company thing, or do the wineries not allow under 18 people for some reason? Drinking age for beer/wine is 16+ in France right?

It's been 18 for everything since 2009.

Waci fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Apr 27, 2017

BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
So I might have time in August for an interrail trip. This would be my fourth, so I'm pretty up to speed on the practical aspects of traveling through Europe by rails. Last time I spent a couple of days going through Austria and Switzerland to take in the Alps for the first time (Sweden doesn't really have much of that sort of topography). This time I'm thinking of heading further south into Italy, partly to visit Rome as I have a keen interest on Ancient Rome and the early Catholic Church, but I'd also be interested in visiting some WWI-related places in Northern Italy (I visited Ypres some years ago, very interesting!).

I guess I'm wondering if there's any particular place in Northern Italy I should visit if history is my primary interest? I should note that I've actually been to Genoa 9 years ago.

Raimondo
Apr 29, 2010

Waci posted:

It's been 18 for everything since 2009.

Aw crap. Yea, I've been operating on wrong information. Thanks. Doesn't help when you google "france drinking age" it spits out Belgiums rule about beer/wine 16+ as a the top result.

Saladman
Jan 12, 2010

Raimondo posted:

For Bordeaux, we wanted to do a wine tasting tour, but we're finding that a lot of them have an 18+ age restriction. My niece, who this trip is for, is 17.

If I had to guess, I'd guess that if you go with her as a family then they're not going to give a poo poo or card, and if they do, just saying "she's 18 but doesn't have her ID" will work fine. Unless that winery tour is run by the only person in France who really cares about the drinking age.

BigglesSWE posted:

I guess I'm wondering if there's any particular place in Northern Italy I should visit if history is my primary interest? I should note that I've actually been to Genoa 9 years ago.

What type of history? There's a ton of history in Northern Italy! Genoa is a busy, dirty, modern port city. It's like going to Marseilles and then going to the rest of the Cote d'Azur.

BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!

Saladman posted:



What type of history? There's a ton of history in Northern Italy! Genoa is a busy, dirty, modern port city. It's like going to Marseilles and then going to the rest of the Cote d'Azur.

Well anything goes, I suppose. I'm interested in history in general, but in particular the world wars and Ancient Mediterranean society. The Italian front of WWI really fascinates me (trench warfare in the Alps sounds scary as hell) and I fell madly in love with the Alps after taking the Glacier Express between Chur and Zermatt a couple of years ago, so visiting the Italian Alps might just be a nice trip in of itself.

Entropist
Dec 1, 2007
I'm very stupid.
Wifi in the Dutch trains usually functions acceptably, but it's quite slow, and only in regular intercity trains, not local trains or Intercity Direct trains.

In some countries you have to pay extra for wifi from what I noticed, like in the German ICE trains and I believe also in the Thalys.

BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
Wifi is included with the more modern Swedish trains (SJ). That's as far as I know regarding wifi in Europe.

Saladman
Jan 12, 2010

BigglesSWE posted:

Well anything goes, I suppose. I'm interested in history in general, but in particular the world wars and Ancient Mediterranean society. The Italian front of WWI really fascinates me (trench warfare in the Alps sounds scary as hell) and I fell madly in love with the Alps after taking the Glacier Express between Chur and Zermatt a couple of years ago, so visiting the Italian Alps might just be a nice trip in of itself.

Are you willing / able to rent a car? In theory there are buses and trains in the Italian Alps, but in practice, eh... it's not Switzerland or Austria, that's for sure.

Ancient ruins: Nothing as impressive as Rome or Naples. E.g. Verona has an ampitheater, Sirmione has an ancient rich person's villa... but neither is remotely as impressive as the Colosseum or Villa Poppaea.

Medieval / Renaissance: Basically anywhere. If you're not going in the mid-June to end-August crazy tourist months, then Milan-Venice-Florence are probably the most worth going to, to be honest. Other cities like Padua, Verona, Bologna, and Bergamo are a good substitute to have reduced crazy crowds in summer, but if you're in shoulder season, might as well go with the most famous places. I've spent probably 2 months altogether as a tourist around northern Italy over the past few years, and the major towns and cities start to blur together after a while. They all have some magnificent cathedral, a pedestrian shopping zone, a big plaza where you can eat at 50 restaurants and get a coffee and gelato, etc. With the exception of Venice, which is totally unique. It's all great though — what I mean is just don't worry too much about which particular cities you pick, because the experience of going to Padua is pretty similar to the experience of having been to Verona. Trieste, Genoa, and Torino are memorable for me in how industrial and gritty they felt. There are also a million cute smaller towns that are also almost indistinguishable, but which are all very nice, e.g. Lecco, Menaggio, Stresa, Finale Ligure, Aosta, ...

WW1 history: No idea. WW2 history: seems almost totally absent, I guess unsurprisingly. Salo bears not a single trace of the fact that it was the Italian Nazi puppet state's capital of Italy for like 3 years during WW2, like the Italian Vichy.

Unless you have a huge amount of time, I would not try doing the dolomites without a rental car. If you have like a whole summer like as a college backpacker, then either way works. For the Italian lakes, some of them are also easily accessible by public transit (e.g. south side of Lake Garda, east side of Lake Como).

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BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
Car rental is out of the question, so wherever I go, it'll have to be with public transport.

Sounds like Rome+some of the older cities up north might make a good mix. Thanks for your input. This is very much on the planning stage; I can only go for the last two weeks in August and something else might show up there.

If nothing else, the Italian kitchen is by far my favourite but I haven't really experienced it "on site". My stay at Genoa was very much a cheapskate sort of living; nowadays I tend to spend a bit more on food when abroad.

Some scurrying on Google indicates that Gorizia might be a good place to visit, so I'll make a note of that.

BigglesSWE fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Apr 27, 2017

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