Modern front-end development: skinny jeans and handlebar mustaches ITT

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Modern front-end development: skinny jeans and handlebar mustaches ITT

«‹›235 »

luchadornado: Oct 7, 2004; A boombox is not a toy!

There's an argument that C# is the best designed language that strikes a balance between pragmatism and idealism. Sure Python or Go might be better for getting poo poo done, JavaScript is nice for PoCs, C++ is faster, Haskell scratches the functional itch and makes you think about math, etc. - but C# is #2 in most categories which puts it in a special place.

# ? Apr 25, 2017 12:44

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 6, 2024 19:40

HaB: Jan 5, 2001; What are the odds?

Helicity posted:

There's an argument that C# is the best designed language that strikes a balance between pragmatism and idealism. Sure Python or Go might be better for getting poo poo done, JavaScript is nice for PoCs, C++ is faster, Haskell scratches the functional itch and makes you think about math, etc. - but C# is #2 in most categories which puts it in a special place.

I did C# dev for 12 years, from the first version on. Coming from various languages prior to that - it struck me as very well thought out and easy to write in. I used to describe it as "Java without the bloat". Even after not touching it for 5-6 years, I can still pick it back up fairly quickly, which is a testament to how easy to understand it is.

Plus Visual Studio is the best IDE ever. Hands down.

PHP is the most glaring example of why "design by committee" is bad. And VB is just...I'm not sure how to explain it. It's like someone took babby's first language and said "hey - we should really use this! Like. Out in the real world!" and no one was around to say "No. No we shouldn't"

# ? Apr 25, 2017 13:11

Skandranon: Sep 6, 2008; fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Helicity posted:

There's an argument that C# is the best designed language that strikes a balance between pragmatism and idealism. Sure Python or Go might be better for getting poo poo done, JavaScript is nice for PoCs, C++ is faster, Haskell scratches the functional itch and makes you think about math, etc. - but C# is #2 in most categories which puts it in a special place.

C# being restricted to Windows held it back for a long time. Hopefully, with .Net Core, it is one step closer to the Final Solution: C# & TypeScript merge to work equally in browser and backend, eliminating Node & Java in one fell swoop.

# ? Apr 25, 2017 16:23

Odette: Mar 19, 2011

Skandranon posted:

C# being restricted to Windows held it back for a long time. Hopefully, with .Net Core, it is one step closer to the Final Solution: C# & TypeScript merge to work equally in browser and backend, eliminating Node & Java in one fell swoop.

Unfortunately (or fortunately? I'm not sure), there are still dozens of people that believe Microsoft under Nadella is just a fox in sheep's clothing, waiting to use the 3 E's again.

# ? Apr 25, 2017 22:15

Gildiss: Aug 24, 2010; Grimey Drawer

Odette posted:

Unfortunately (or fortunately? I'm not sure), there are still dozens of people that believe Microsoft under Nadella is just a fox in sheep's clothing, waiting to use the 3 E's again.

You don't? Just take a look at the Windows 10 data they are collecting. They're still dirt nasty.

Also what is this React Fiber?

# ? Apr 25, 2017 22:22

Kekekela: Oct 28, 2004

Gildiss posted:

You don't? Just take a look at the Windows 10 data they are collecting. They're still dirt nasty.

Also what is this React Fiber?

Rewrite of the innards of React to "increase its suitability for areas like animation, layout, and gestures".

# ? Apr 25, 2017 22:37

Drastic Actions: Apr 7, 2009; FUCK YOU!
GET PUMPED!; Nap Ghost

Skandranon posted:

C# being restricted to Windows held it back for a long time. Hopefully, with .Net Core, it is one step closer to the Final Solution: C# & TypeScript merge to work equally in browser and backend, eliminating Node & Java in one fell swoop.

Have you heard of Mono? Granted it wasn't a Microsoft project (although now it is thanks to the purchase of Xamarin). I would argued Mono is in a better state than .NET core anyway.

# ? Apr 25, 2017 23:17

luchadornado: Oct 7, 2004; A boombox is not a toy!

Drastic Actions posted:

Have you heard of Mono? Granted it wasn't a Microsoft project (although now it is thanks to the purchase of Xamarin). I would argued Mono is in a better state than .NET core anyway.

Not that this is really the thread for it, but Core CLR is fine - last year, I shipped a billing system and a large website that sees millions of monthly uniques on it. Core is more stable and usable than a lot of node/js libraries these days.

luchadornado fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Apr 26, 2017

# ? Apr 26, 2017 00:01

Munkeymon: Aug 14, 2003; Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.

Helicity posted:

Not that this is really the thread for it, but Core CLR is fine - last year, I shipped a billing system and a large website that sees millions of monthly uniques on it. Core is more stable and usable than a lot of node/js libraries these days.

Next on Ripley's Believe It or Not: a midget giraffe that's taller than a thousand beached jellyfish!

# ? Apr 26, 2017 00:19

geeves: Sep 16, 2004

HaB posted:

Plus Visual Studio is the best IDE ever. Hands down.

VS has a very good Arduino plugin and I like Peek Definition. That's about it for me.

Autocomplete is a disaster. You can't pick up in the middle of a method or field name. If you screw up and pick the wrong one or back out of picking the wrong one, you have to start the name from scratch to get auto complete to work. I've only used VS for a couple of months. So I'm sure I'm just scratching the surface.

Git in VS doesn't work half the time when I try to push and merge conflicts. gently caress. I keep an IntelliJ project covering the same code so I have something usable.

I wish the maker of the Arduino CLion plugin would get his rear end in gear and get it to work correctly. But if not, hopefully I can get Eclipse to play nice with my arduino projects so I don't have to drop $500 on VS.

Visual Studio is the personification of some micromanager who wants to make his developers' lives miserable.

# ? Apr 26, 2017 00:58

an skeleton: Apr 23, 2012; scowls @ u

VS code is pretty sweet and i find that using command line for Git is more than sufficient

# ? Apr 26, 2017 01:04

Summit: Mar 6, 2004; David wanted you to have this.

I know a lot of C# lifers who swear by Visual Studio. After using it for years and then moving over to JetBrains products I have 0 desire to return.

# ? Apr 26, 2017 01:45

Gul Banana: Nov 28, 2003

geeves posted:

Autocomplete is a disaster. You can't pick up in the middle of a method or field name. If you screw up and pick the wrong one or back out of picking the wrong one, you have to start the name from scratch to get auto complete to work.

ctrl+space

# ? Apr 26, 2017 03:45

Plavski: Feb 1, 2006; I could be a revolutionary

VS 2017 is actually nice for JavaScript now. I mean, it's no VSCode or anything, but the Salsa stuff they added has improved my life quite a lot for writing modern JavaScript alongside our dotnet C# backend.

It's still buggy as gently caress though but they've a new tiny-update devOps style patching system so you get seamless updates and fixes every couple of days. Way better than the old service pack updates every 6 months.

# ? Apr 26, 2017 09:42

The Merkinman: Apr 22, 2007; I sell only quality merkins. What is a merkin you ask? Why, it's a wig for your genitals!

We've started transitioning to using Docker.

Because of that, and the fact that I do my development on Windows 10 (to reflect the environment our average non-mobile customer uses), I can no longer use VirtualBox to test other versions of IE, preview versions of Windows 10 and also Linux just because I use it at home.
I looked up some thing about Docker Toolbox but don't know if that's even what I'd want for my use case.
I also tried Microsoft's Hyper-V, but I get an error Failed to create a new virtual machine, even when using their image!

I'm sure other people in here have a combo of Windows+Docker+need to test other OSs, right??
What do you recommend? (don't say just use Linux/Mac as I then wouldn't be using what our average customer does!)

# ? Apr 26, 2017 13:59

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

Fun MomentJS puzzler: what's the difference between

code:

var now = moment();

var sixtySix = moment().subtract(66, 'years');
var almostSixtySix = moment().subtract(65, 'years').subtract(11, 'months');
var sixtyFive = moment().subtract(65, 'years');

console.log(moment().diff(sixtySix, 'years'));
console.log(moment().diff(almostSixtySix, 'years'));
console.log(moment().diff(sixtyFive, 'years'));

and

code:

var now = moment();

var sixtySix = moment().subtract(66, 'years');
var almostSixtySix = moment().subtract(65, 'years').subtract(11, 'months');
var sixtyFive = moment().subtract(65, 'years');

console.log(now.diff(sixtySix, 'years'));
console.log(now.diff(almostSixtySix, 'years'));
console.log(now.diff(sixtyFive, 'years'));

# ? Apr 26, 2017 15:28

lunar detritus: May 6, 2009

Pollyanna posted:

Fun MomentJS puzzler: what's the difference between

?

Without running it I bet anything weird that may be happening is because moment likes to mutate itself.

# ? Apr 26, 2017 15:32

IAmKale: Jun 7, 2007; やらないか; Fun Shoe

In the first example you're creating three new instances of Moment. In the second you're reusing the one instance. At face value the former seems less optimized since you're using more more memory relative to the latter, but there's probably very little impact on actual perceived performance.

# ? Apr 26, 2017 15:34

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

That's all well and good, yes. I guess the other question is, what do each of the console.log calls output?

Answer:

66
65
65

vs

66
65
64

# ? Apr 26, 2017 15:37

geeves: Sep 16, 2004

Gul Banana posted:

ctrl+space

ctrl + space only works if I start from the first letter of a word.

It does not work if I mistype then backspace then ctrl + space in the middle of the word.

# ? Apr 26, 2017 16:10

Lumpy: Apr 26, 2002; La! La! La! Laaaa!; College Slice

Pollyanna posted:

Fun MomentJS puzzler: what's the difference between

What happens if you do it the way you should be doing it with moment using clone() or calling moment( otherMoment )

# ? Apr 26, 2017 19:25

Gul Banana: Nov 28, 2003

geeves posted:

ctrl + space only works if I start from the first letter of a word.

It does not work if I mistype then backspace then ctrl + space in the middle of the word.

vOv works for me

# ? Apr 26, 2017 19:53

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

Yeah I ctrl-space all over the place, I'm a ctrl-spacin' machine

# ? Apr 26, 2017 20:01

The Fool: Oct 16, 2003

The Merkinman posted:

We've started transitioning to using Docker.

Because of that, and the fact that I do my development on Windows 10 (to reflect the environment our average non-mobile customer uses), I can no longer use VirtualBox to test other versions of IE, preview versions of Windows 10 and also Linux just because I use it at home.
I looked up some thing about Docker Toolbox but don't know if that's even what I'd want for my use case.
I also tried Microsoft's Hyper-V, but I get an error Failed to create a new virtual machine, even when using their image!

I'm sure other people in here have a combo of Windows+Docker+need to test other OSs, right??
What do you recommend? (don't say just use Linux/Mac as I then wouldn't be using what our average customer does!)

I just use Hyper-V. Do you have local admin?

# ? Apr 26, 2017 20:38

The Merkinman: Apr 22, 2007; I sell only quality merkins. What is a merkin you ask? Why, it's a wig for your genitals!

The Fool posted:

I just use Hyper-V. Do you have local admin?

I think so, I even tried running Hyper-V as admin. No Dice.

EDIT:
OK if I use the normal "New" option instead of "Quick Create" I'm able to make one....but it doesn't have any internet access.

The Merkinman fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Apr 27, 2017

# ? Apr 26, 2017 22:33

teen phone cutie: Jun 18, 2012; last year i rewrote something awful from scratch because i hate myself

Looking into Meteor without knowing basically anything about Node (or the model and controller layers for that matter).

What's the consensus?

E: do i need Webpack with it? It seems like it does importing/exporting and bundling right out of the box, but I can't find any docs on what packages come with it

teen phone cutie fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Apr 27, 2017

# ? Apr 27, 2017 21:23

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

Grump posted:

Looking into Meteor without knowing basically anything about Node.

What's the consensus?

I see job postings asking for experience in it a lot. No idea if that means it's a technology that's popular because it gets poo poo done, or because there's lots of legacy systems written leveraging it that need to be supported. I remember it being pretty okay when I used it.

# ? Apr 27, 2017 21:27

teen phone cutie: Jun 18, 2012; last year i rewrote something awful from scratch because i hate myself

Yeah I was pretty much sold on it because their site said you could do the same in 10 lines that takes 1000 on node.

Idk. Gonna try the todo example and see what I think

Only knowing React isn't getting me very far when applying to jobs

# ? Apr 27, 2017 23:21

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

Grump posted:

Yeah I was pretty much sold on it because their site said you could do the same in 10 lines that takes 1000 on node.

Idk. Gonna try the todo example and see what I think

Only knowing React isn't getting me very far when applying to jobs

Meteor is good if you were going to try to do a very, very specific thing with Node. If you want to do anything different from that, then Meteor becomes less useful. That's kind of a thing with frameworks/tools like Meteor.

# ? Apr 28, 2017 00:14

smackfu: Jun 7, 2004

Best practices question: We have a build script and we run 'npm install' in it. Should we be running 'npm update' instead? Or should we just lock down our module versions so it doesn't matter?

# ? Apr 28, 2017 11:14

Plavski: Feb 1, 2006; I could be a revolutionary

smackfu posted:

Best practices question: We have a build script and we run 'npm install' in it. Should we be running 'npm update' instead? Or should we just lock down our module versions so it doesn't matter?

I'd recommend using yarn, check in your yarn.lock file and leave it at that. Npm update will likely break your build due to some dodgy release, while relying on package.json alone will cause package issues across multiple developers. Yarn will enforce a checksummed package versioning across everyone. It guarantees your npm folders will all be the same and you can agree on a best practise internally for updating versions.

For us, when I do an upgrade of libraries, I make sure everything is working right, then check in the new yarn.lock file to the server. Everyone else does a get latest and fires up yarn install which updates their packages to the right level. We then have a one-stop shop for package changes so no-one gets out of sync.

# ? Apr 28, 2017 11:23

Honest Thief: Jan 11, 2009

I've got a way too big CSS file that I need to prune for unused rules, purify-css doesn't seem to work properly anymore, or at least it bungles up in some inner error and the descriptor message isnt helpful; any other similar tools I can use?

# ? Apr 28, 2017 13:16

teen phone cutie: Jun 18, 2012; last year i rewrote something awful from scratch because i hate myself

Lumpy posted:

Countdown to you discovering storing data as a combination of a list of IDs _and_ a map of objects keyed by ID can be a lot easier / better than storing a list of objects....

This post is old but I've just discovered that storing any major data in React components period is hell, especially for user form submission.

Time to learn Redux I guess! I can only put it off for so long

Pretty proud of the app so far though. React is pretty sweet: http://recordit.co/l4kIxOtDjX

teen phone cutie fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Apr 28, 2017

# ? Apr 28, 2017 15:06

Kekekela: Oct 28, 2004

Thanks to whoever reminded me to get off my rear end and install bugsnag. I'd somehow convinced myself that my redux driven masterpiece was going to be immune to mundane client side runtime errors but I was of course very wrong.

One problem I'm having, as I've used it on projects before but never actually been the one configuring it, is getting it to recognize my hosted source-maps. Aside from the documentation onsite, does anyone have any idea how I could troubleshoot? I know that uglify is putting in the appropriate tag in the bundle.js.

# ? Apr 28, 2017 15:30

Macichne Leainig: Jul 26, 2012; by VG

Honest Thief posted:

I've got a way too big CSS file that I need to prune for unused rules, purify-css doesn't seem to work properly anymore, or at least it bungles up in some inner error and the descriptor message isnt helpful; any other similar tools I can use?

Not sure if it's exactly what you're looking for, but UnCSS seems pretty similar and looks a bit more recently updated. Integrates with a few build tools too if you'd like to do it that way.

https://github.com/giakki/uncss

# ? Apr 28, 2017 15:33

Honest Thief: Jan 11, 2009

Protocol7 posted:

Not sure if it's exactly what you're looking for, but UnCSS seems pretty similar and looks a bit more recently updated. Integrates with a few build tools too if you'd like to do it that way.

https://github.com/giakki/uncss

Yeah, thanks, seems to have done it.

# ? Apr 28, 2017 16:08

Lumpy: Apr 26, 2002; La! La! La! Laaaa!; College Slice

I'm still reading the article, but this seems pretty cool Render React in Sketch.

# ? May 1, 2017 14:51

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

Quick question about React design.

If I hypothetically have a page with a fixed top navbar, and then the rest of the page below. Would ALL of that go into my main app component, which would then be made up of smaller interface components? Or would I have two separate divs on the main page that would have "main" React components injected into them?

# ? May 1, 2017 17:21

luchadornado: Oct 7, 2004; A boombox is not a toy!

COOL CORN posted:

Quick question about React design.

If I hypothetically have a page with a fixed top navbar, and then the rest of the page below. Would ALL of that go into my main app component, which would then be made up of smaller interface components? Or would I have two separate divs on the main page that would have "main" React components injected into them?

Not to be snarky, but ask yourself what the definition of "main" is.

To build on that, there might be a reason to have separate React apps on the same page, but I've never seen it. I've seen React SPA admin type apps, React for rendering user-facing pages, isomorphic React, React inside Electron... never seen multiple entry points on a page.

# ? May 1, 2017 17:59

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 6, 2024 19:40

Lumpy: Apr 26, 2002; La! La! La! Laaaa!; College Slice

COOL CORN posted:

Quick question about React design.

If I hypothetically have a page with a fixed top navbar, and then the rest of the page below. Would ALL of that go into my main app component, which would then be made up of smaller interface components? Or would I have two separate divs on the main page that would have "main" React components injected into them?

code:

<App>
  <Navbar />
  <Router>
     // render based on your route here
  </Router>
</App>

Your router can be react-router, or a simple switch statement or anything in-between, but that's basically how you do it in a single page app. You *could* have multiple apps and so on, but that's a pain in the butt and unless you have a compelling reason to do so, don't!

# ? May 1, 2017 18:20

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Modern front-end development: skinny jeans and handlebar mustaches ITT

«‹›235 »