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At the very least, they're redoing cross class stuff in stormblood so you don't have to level other poo poo, although details are light so who knows. Also the people who defend the MSQ bullshit in the thread here are some funny people.
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Apr 25, 2017 07:32
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I like FFXIV but I have no idea why it's considered one of the best MMOs. It has a really cramped-feeling, unimmersive world with lots of hidden walls and loading, really bad world quests, tons of daily grinding requirements on random content without context, and of course the mandatory 40+ hour main story grind to be able to play with your friends. These things are all really bad no matter what your particular taste in MMOs is. But it's especially bad if you really like immersion and world exploration. Part of its consistent hype is just because it's part of a really popular franchise. But I think most importantly to its praise as *the* MMO is the fact that it's patched much faster than anything else. I think this shows that above all, MMO players just want new poo poo as much as possible, and are anxious with the idea that content won't be delivered regularly. And I think it reveals something about the psychology of a lot of people who play these games: they dread the idea of running out of goals and being forced to stop playing, even temporarily. I think this is one of the saddest and shittiest parts of the genre. I've seen it in all the games I've played to some extent, but the most among FFXIV players, by far. Most players know the patch schedule 2-3 patches out; and it's all been so systematized with intermediate letters from the producer, etc. Everyone knows exactly what is in every patch before it's been released. So yeah, I think FFXIV is the paradigmatic MMO but mostly because it most fully indulges the worst desires of the MMO playerbase.
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Apr 25, 2017 10:08
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A lot of the disconnect with people not understanding why folks like FFXIV is that it's really only superficially like WOW or other western MMOs, and it has a very different... pace I guess, for lack of a better term. Not even stuff like leveling speed specifically, but the more methodical pace of combat and how the slow GCD interacts with avoiding attacks, and even how it tends to build up options and rewards and just speed in general as you progress. The early game is almost unbearably slow and shallow compared to something like WOW but once you hit the endgame you're almost overwhelmed with options to do, especially since square goes out of their way to make almost every bit of old content relevant in some way and keep experienced players and new players interacting. And yeah there's a lot of grinds but come on that is the endgame gameplay for literally every MMO on the market. If you don't like that you really should be playing something else. I can absolutely understand why people won't like it though, and it definitely has a lot of real issues. The piano keybinds for a lot of classes are inexcusable and it boggles the mind how people in the FFXIV thread defend insane poo poo like the current endgame black mage rotation. 
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Apr 25, 2017 10:56
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I like that FFXIV has cool fights, even if they're not the most inventive or whatnot. Some of them even feel pretty cinematic while you play and that's kinda neat. I'm extremely bad at it, though. I also quite like the Heavensward story as well as many of the sidequests and job/class quests. In terms of presentation it's top-notch, and it's one of those rare few MMOs that people actually play for the stories, even purely comic relief sidequests like Hildibrand. This despite the fact that many of the good stories are gated behind completion of a much less interesting 1-50 MSQ. Which, obviously, is a whole lot and therefore a big problem. The overworld is definitely unengaging though. In HW it definitely felt like they really didn't know what to do with it, and their attempts to improve it and make it more difficult and engaging just made everyone not want to do any world content because it was such a slog. I do actually enjoy exploration in games quite a lot but I don't necessarily need to do that in an MMO. Open world games currently dominate the industry so, while a weak overworld is very much a flaw, it's one I'm willing to overlook.
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Apr 25, 2017 13:53
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FWIW, the HP sponges mobs in HW are is stricly a function of "enemies on overworld die too fast" rage on the official forums IIRC. This was mentioned in one of the live letters, and it likely won't happen again. The bullshit olde mmo overworld grind got put in via diadem now.
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Apr 25, 2017 14:01
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Ponuh posted:I like FFXIV but I have no idea why it's considered one of the best MMOs. It has a really cramped-feeling, unimmersive world with lots of hidden walls and loading, really bad world quests, tons of daily grinding requirements on random content without context, and of course the mandatory 40+ hour main story grind to be able to play with your friends. These things are all really bad no matter what your particular taste in MMOs is. But it's especially bad if you really like immersion and world exploration. The first sentence is explained by your last sentence. It's also why MMOs have plateaued and as a genre don't have anywhere to grow. Welcome to the micro transaction based card game future!
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Apr 25, 2017 15:50
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Asimo posted:The piano keybinds for a lot of classes are inexcusable and it boggles the mind how people in the FFXIV thread defend insane poo poo like the current endgame black mage rotation. But the black mage rotation is probably the easiest one out of them all? Like, go look at a ninja rotation, what the actual gently caress were they thinking? When they said they were ability pruning I was happy, then they said we'd end up with about as many buttons and I was sad again. hobbesmaster posted:The first sentence is explained by your last sentence. It's also why MMOs have plateaued and as a genre don't have anywhere to grow. Welcome to the micro transaction based card game future! Really they just have to find ways of cutting down on development time without harming the experience, and the best way is probably like what PSO2 does where you have the ark ship that everyone is on and you go do missions and then come back. There's no wide open world that has to get made and the focus is only on content that you either play like dungeons or socialize. Getting rid of leveling and making it just about gear progression is another path they could take, and after cata I'm not sure leveling is even worth it to make content for in terms of how fast people blow through it.
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Apr 25, 2017 17:40
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:But the black mage rotation is probably the easiest one out of them all? Like, go look at a ninja rotation, what the actual gently caress were they thinking? When they said they were ability pruning I was happy, then they said we'd end up with about as many buttons and I was sad again. Well that's lame. I don't like how slow leveling is in FF14, but I always feel that I'm a minority when it comes to that. I enjoy how Marvel Heroes handles it by exponentially increasing your xp rate for each hero you take to endgame (maxes at 200% xp).
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Apr 25, 2017 20:25
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Truga posted:"enemies on overworld die too fast" rage on the official forums is there any bad game design that idiots won't want more of as long as it makes spooky casuals unhappy
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Apr 25, 2017 21:20
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The only real surprising thing is that developers still actually listen to hardcore forum whiners. See also: this entire thread.
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Apr 25, 2017 21:40
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RottenK posted:is there any bad game design that idiots won't want more of as long as it makes spooky casuals unhappy anything pay to win is about it.
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Apr 25, 2017 22:02
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but what if I call my game's cash shop currency "hardcore points" and every time you buy them a pop up message appears and tells you that you are better than the people who don't obsessively dedicate their lives to videogames
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Apr 25, 2017 22:20
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RottenK posted:but what if I call my game's cash shop currency "hardcore points" and every time you buy them a pop up message appears and tells you that you are better than the people who don't obsessively dedicate their lives to videogames yo does this game accept paypal, asking for a friend
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Apr 25, 2017 23:01
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RottenK posted:but what if I call my game's cash shop currency "hardcore points" and every time you buy them a pop up message appears and tells you that you are better than the people who don't obsessively dedicate their lives to videogames Does a loud voice mockingly call you cupcake and deride your in game achievements when this happens?
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Apr 25, 2017 23:09
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The in game currency will be 'cupcakes'.
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Apr 26, 2017 10:43
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Ponuh posted:I like FFXIV but I have no idea why it's considered one of the best MMOs. It has a really cramped-feeling, unimmersive world with lots of hidden walls and loading, really bad world quests, tons of daily grinding requirements on random content without context, and of course the mandatory 40+ hour main story grind to be able to play with your friends. These things are all really bad no matter what your particular taste in MMOs is. But it's especially bad if you really like immersion and world exploration. I'm not sure why you gotta use words like "dread", "anxious" and "indulging the worst desires". If I'm going to play a game for a long time I want new content to keep it interesting, no shambling terrors needed. Of course I personally haven't played an MMO for more than a month in about a decade...
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Apr 26, 2017 10:57
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CoffeeBooze posted:Does a loud voice mockingly call you cupcake and deride your in game achievements when this happens? no but if you can subscribe to a feature that will make this voice mock and deride people in your dungeon party every time they make a mistake or criticise your mistakes
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Apr 26, 2017 12:09
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Mayor McCheese posted:Well that's lame. They sort of do that in FFXIV with the armory bonus by giving you a 100% exp bonus below 50 for combat classes below your highest and 50% above 50, but that'll probably get buffed in SB, but the first one takes a long time, yeah. They've made it a lot better by making the MSQ before level 50 give a lot more XP so you don't have huge dead zones anymore, but the sidequests tend to all suck regardless. It gets parroted a lot, but they did a lot better in HW. Partially that's because levels take longer, so they pack more MSQ into each level than average. There was a huge argument in the thread about the jump potions they're doing that make your character a level 50 in the class of your choice and have the MSQ done up to HW so that you can catch up with friends easier. The thread regulars tended to think it would make everyone suck at their class and "Why are you playing the game if you don't want to do ALL of the content" but SE already put the potion in on the chinese version and the statistics showed (to almost no one's surprise outside of the grogs) that people who bought the potion had a much higher retention rate because they could catch up and play with friends easier. What a shocker. I'm not sure if jump potions are in yet or not, but if they're not they should be in relatively soon, and if you've got a character at 50 you'll have access to every class and will skip the worst part of the story straight into the very good HW story. There might be another version of the potion that brings you to 60, or they just update the potion, not sure about the details because I'm a broken human being with all of the combat classes at 60. They've also added a roguelite dungeon called palace of the dead that lets you play any class at 60 because it's an alternate leveling system and lets you level pretty fast because parties don't need a specific party make up, so 4 dps is just fine. It's much easier to level in FFXIV now than it ever has been, and people still complain about it on the forums like it's a bad thing.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:00
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I think one of the biggest things FFXIV has in its favor is it is polished to a mirror sheen. I can count the number of times I've actually encountered a bug on one hand. I remember playing WotLK and for like 3 months (during ToC I think) an early zone quest was bugged and locked out the rest of that zones story. Any close to being like that gets patched within a week at most. They are also constantly adding QoL and cosmetic features every patch rather the. Just when expansions come out.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:43
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:There was a huge argument in the thread about the jump potions they're doing that make your character a level 50 in the class of your choice and have the MSQ done up to HW so that you can catch up with friends easier. The thread regulars tended to think it would make everyone suck at their class The thread consensus was actually the opposite of that, it was just the usual two always wrong guys that got stuck on that position, and they are very loud. Thread consensus was that the "Don't know how to play X" class ship had at best sailed with POTD leveling, and at worst retards were always going to be bad and no amount of time spent leveling was going to change that. The duo of dumb's sub argument when the first one failed was "Why would you want to play with your friends at current content when you have all this awesome story you can solo???" as if Final Fantasy's writing was the next coming of Tolstoy and the thought of enjoying challenging and rewarding content with friends or even the concept of friendship was alien to them. Maybe Fister Roboto literally is a robot.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:10
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Whenever I think of FF XIV's gripping low-level story I immediately hear "pray, return"
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Apr 26, 2017 20:18
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Rhyme's right, the FFXIV thread is largely on board aside from a few diehards who will insist on talking the subject out every time it comes up like THIS time is the one where everyone will suddenly agree with them. Heck, I'm one of those goofy goofballs that tolerates or even likes the early MSQ Story Arcs, and I think that "You should appreciate that content" is an incredibly dumb reason to protest Jump Potions.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:38
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Content being gated behind the MSQ in FFXIV is definitely its biggest problem. My wife and I tried to play FFXIV again after the HW release, we had hit max level in AAR but hadnt done much beyond that. It was nearly 40 hours of questing to get to HW content, to make things even worse a lot of that questing was boring rear end fetch quests. We got a little ways into HW and just couldnt take any more, which is a shame to since we really like just about everything else about FFXIV. If we could just do pick up raids and dungeon in between grinding out the MSQ it would have been so much more tolerable, but everything was locked behind hours of tedium. For new players starting from scratch I cant even imagine how miserable this must be.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:50
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CoffeeBooze posted:If we could just do pick up raids and dungeon in between grinding out the MSQ it would have been so much more tolerable You can in fact do that after level 18! There's no excuse for the Titan and Garuda level range and level 48-49 being dead air but after Leviathan the game throws dungeons and trials at you. If the do 10 quests then dungeon formula doesn't interest you FF14 isn't what you want, that's how the game is set up even in the endgame. Hell the endgame is leveling new jobs up if we are being honest. The highs are high and the lows are low. A Heavensward jump potion would help alot really. 138 quests vs 284 + 138 quests. Wildstar is better because you do the tutorial zones and just say no, you'll never see a dungeon.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:06
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Wildstar is clearly the best because even if you say yes and queue up for a dungeon youll never actually get a group.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:08
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God that is true... You can't win. gently caress everything I'm gonna go play Minecraft and RP a Paladin. Fat and Useless fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 22:13
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I think Blizzards plan of new expansions coming with a free boost to the starting level for that expansion is incredibly solid. When I came back a couple months ago they had changed the class I had previously played significantly enough that I didn't enjoy it anymore. Without the free boost my options would have been suck it up or start a new dude from scratch, but as it was I was able to test out every class(!!!) Before deciding on what felt more fun and being able to jump right into the fray I would no poo poo have straight up quit if that wasn't an option, instead I have two dudes at the new max level and I'm working on two more because it turns out that I enjoy this expansion quite a bit!
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Apr 27, 2017 01:09
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:I think Blizzards plan of new expansions coming with a free boost to the starting level for that expansion is incredibly solid. When I came back a couple months ago they had changed the class I had previously played significantly enough that I didn't enjoy it anymore. Without the free boost my options would have been suck it up or start a new dude from scratch, but as it was I was able to test out every class(!!!) Before deciding on what felt more fun and being able to jump right into the fray Yeah they absolutely throw in a free jump potion w/expansion imo. I'd use it to level a dps class because fuuuuuuck potd.
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Apr 27, 2017 05:55
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who here has played asta online
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Apr 27, 2017 16:37
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I think liking FFXIV's system of updates is not just about a fear of no content. MMOs in general are plagued by developers actually having no plan, and basically making poo poo up all the time. The regularity of FFXIV's updates and systematic nature have proven to the players not just that there will always be content, but that the devs aren't complete morons, liars, or pie-in-the-sky idea-men. Like, I'm not denying at all that there has been content that made most players, including me, think "why were they wasting their time on this terrible idea??" (i.e. Lords of Verminion), but the important thing is the perception of communication. Right from its origin as a 2.0 version of a failure, the devs have honestly given players the impression that they'll notice when things are wrong and try to improve them. Martman fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 20:06
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Have they done something to the absolutely awful bank and auction interfaces yet
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Apr 28, 2017 09:31
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Martman posted:. Right from its origin as a 2.0 version of a failure, the devs have honestly given players the impression that they'll notice when things are wrong and try to improve them. i have the collectors edition of 1.0 somewhere.... How long did it take them to go from 1 to 2.0? like 2 or 3 different teams of developers and never actually charging the current players as they knew that the minute a $ was added everyone would leave. (played maybe 4 hours of 2.0, which was about 3 hours and 55 minutes more than i played 1.0, but at least i didnt rage quit) FF14 2.0 is 15 (or 16) but was such a huge failure that they simply had to do everything possible to save face. What other franchise would do that? FF is part of something bigger than the single installment now. There are people that really do care about where it was and where it is going. WoW is also part of something larger, its part of the Blizzard franchise. ESO is part of the whatever it is you'd call that lore. Wildstar is part of nothing and was so boring to play i cant imagine the pain developers would have to go through coming up with more content edit, the last sentence was meant to go somewhere else Meskhenet fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Apr 28, 2017 |
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Apr 28, 2017 11:33
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it is with great regret I must inform you the Wildstar thread is about FF14 again MMOHMO is kind of littered with MMOs that want to switch things up and change the genre and that's something cool to aim for but are any of them actually playable or deliver on that promise?
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Apr 28, 2017 13:31
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The previous thread was subtitled "mmohmo chat thread", it was very fitting imo.Pierson posted:MMOHMO is kind of littered with MMOs that want to switch things up and change the genre and that's something cool to aim for but are any of them actually playable or deliver on that promise? Project Gorgon is a sincere and interesting project and even playable for free but too low-budget to be taken seriously yet. I think that's it?
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Apr 28, 2017 13:38
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people that say the mmo genre is dead are objectively retarded. pre-wow there was at most a million western mmo players in every title combined. now that wow has slowed down there are still millions more western mmo players than the genre ever had pre-wow. every non final fantasy or wow mmo has been incredibly niche or unsuccessful, nothing has really changed except your perception of what the genre should look like. just because big developers have stopped throwing away cash in droves to do the impossible and replicate wows success doesn't mean the genre is dead, only that they have accepted the genre for has always been and probably will always been, incredibly loving niche and dominated by a few titles. so if you think having a hilarious AAA mmo failure every couple of years is a sign the genre is somehow more healthy you are objectively retarded
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Apr 28, 2017 16:51
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UHD posted:Whenever I think of FF XIV's gripping low-level story I immediately hear "pray, return" On one hand this is exactly why I'd say a skip potion or whatever is perfect for XIV. Because that MSQ is trash incarnate and made to be as tedious as possible and also mandatory and what the gently caress were they thinking. On the other it doesn't actually fix anything to alleviate why you want to skip it in the first place.
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Apr 28, 2017 16:58
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Pierson posted:it is with great regret I must inform you the Wildstar thread is about FF14 again Since this has become the general MMO thread, is it that odd? I don't follow the other MMO threads, so I'm assuming FF14 fatigue is still a thing.
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Apr 28, 2017 20:46
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Percelus posted:people that say the mmo genre is dead are objectively retarded. pre-wow there was at most a million western mmo players in every title combined. now that wow has slowed down there are still millions more western mmo players than the genre ever had pre-wow. every non final fantasy or wow mmo has been incredibly niche or unsuccessful, nothing has really changed except your perception of what the genre should look like. just because big developers have stopped throwing away cash in droves to do the impossible and replicate wows success doesn't mean the genre is dead, only that they have accepted the genre for has always been and probably will always been, incredibly loving niche and dominated by a few titles. so if you think having a hilarious AAA mmo failure every couple of years is a sign the genre is somehow more healthy you are objectively retarded
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Apr 28, 2017 22:36
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Asimo posted:Yeah, for example look at all the big-name AAA MMO games in development, such as: He just said AAA developers have stopped throwing money away trying to make WoW 2
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Apr 28, 2017 23:45
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Which is the sign of a healthy, growing industry. There's no big-name MMOs in development, and surprisingly few MMOs in general in development (and almost all of them in Asia). Everyone's moved to much easier to make and equally profitable MOBAs, hero shooters, mobile games, and so on. No, existing MMOs still exist and will continue to do so, so no the genre isn't "dead". But barring some big sea change in the game industry what we have now is what we're going to get.
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Apr 28, 2017 23:48
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