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Well I lost my whole evening's worth of poo poo. 3 hours, wars with Persia, Ottomans, Tunis, the Papacy, loving hell. gently caress patches. 50 years of endgame grind and assholey poo poo.
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Apr 26, 2017 02:37
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Jabor posted:Post a screenshot and someone will tell you how they did it. I edited one into my original post. The only thing I can think of is that since Zemplen doesn't project a ZoC onto allied Poland's land they can just walk right past my border fort since Zemplen is the origin province for distance calculations? e: I'm gonna hazard that taking the Black Army isn't really worth it. It gives you -15% force limits, -10% national taxes, +30% mercenary cost and +10% merc discipline. But you also get lovely events where they demand payment and events on ruler succession, plus mercs are so expensive you won't be able to afford more than a handful. It only lasts until about 1510 when the Reformation starts. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 02:49
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Were your forts mothballed at any point? Changing the ZoC landscape doesn't cancel any pre-existing movement orders, so you can get caught out if you see them coming and only then decide to unmothball. Once they're in they can walk out the same way just fine - back to the previous province (which is always allowed), and then the next two steps are within range of the return province.
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Apr 26, 2017 03:13
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Jabor posted:Were your forts mothballed at any point? Changing the ZoC landscape doesn't cancel any pre-existing movement orders, so you can get caught out if you see them coming and only then decide to unmothball. the two forts in the southwest were mothballed because I wasn't worried about them, everything else has been at full maintenance because Pol/Lit AI is dumb and Ottomans have had a small army running around sieging their provinces all war of note, the Ottomans occupied Przemysl before entering my fort in Zemplen, maybe them having control of Przemysl (no ZoC from me?) allows them to walk right past my fort?
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Apr 26, 2017 03:19
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Pellisworth posted:I edited one into my original post. Huh, I didn't get any negative events from them
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Apr 26, 2017 03:21
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Fuligin posted:Huh, I didn't get any negative events from them they mostly don't mention the Black Army specifically, just mercenaries loving things up I'm getting one every handful of years, corruption or autonomy and devastation in a province, noble estate loyalty, stuff like that
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Apr 26, 2017 03:28
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Pellisworth posted:Hungary trip report: the Black Army seems like a neat idea but it only exists from like 1460-1510 and it is waaaay too expensive to be able to afford more than a handful of mercs. Eh. You don't exert a hostile ZOC into other countries, so based on that pattern of movement the army's return province is Zemplen; the first ZOC province they entered was Szolnok (the Fort is a Fort province, not a ZOC province). An army can freely move up to two provinces away from the return province, which includes Pest. QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 03:59
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QuarkJets posted:You don't exert a hostile ZOC into other countries, so based on that pattern of movement the army's return province is Zemplen; the first ZOC province they entered was Szolnok (the Fort is a Fort province, not a ZOC province). An army can freely move up to two provinces away from the return province, which includes Pest. Yeah that's what I figured after looking at it a while. That's really stupid. To reiterate, Hungary is a cool and fun start but the Black Army seems way too expensive to be worth it right now. Compare: Benefits +10% Discipline for mercenaries Drawbacks -10% national tax income -15% land force limits +30% mercenary cost bad events every few years and on monarch death benefits end about 1510 when the Reformation hits Hungary has a gold mine and you're decently wealthy but you really can't afford more than a handful of mercs
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Apr 26, 2017 04:23
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Those costs do seem kind of high for the benefits; 10% discipline is large but not exactly game-breaking. But bonuses like that in the early game are hard to come by, so maybe you can leverage loans and become a bigger threat to the ottomans
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Apr 26, 2017 04:48
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QuarkJets posted:Those costs do seem kind of high for the benefits; 10% discipline is large but not exactly game-breaking. But bonuses like that in the early game are hard to come by, so maybe you can leverage loans and become a bigger threat to the ottomans In that screenshot I am getting utterly wrecked by the Ottomans +10% morale from piety and +10% morale from an adviser, we still have way more manpower so pull through I still bled them out, but early game morale (and tech) is king the merc discipline bonus and forcelimits penalty seem very questionable I think you're better off going for a larger conventional army rather than paying huge sums for a few +10% discipline mercs
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Apr 26, 2017 04:57
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It'd... probably be a good idea to get your own morale advisor. The big boon in those early game bonuses is when you stack them on top of everything else you get, not just taking them as a substitution for having to pay attention to normal military poo poo. I've never played Hungary so maybe those penalties hurt them too much, but I think 10% discipline sounds like it could be really strong. Not as a constant thing, but something to turn a couple of doom wars (which in Hungary's position, they have a few of during the first age) from close calls into decisive victories, even if their treasury is drained by the end. Maybe the events are a bit much though, if it's not just that you got unlucky with them.
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Apr 26, 2017 05:09
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The AI went from not giving a gently caress about going over dip relation limit to "gently caress you albania/byzantium, get eaten by otto over there." That or they accidentaly/on purposely removed the hidden dip relation for AI to players 
Detheros fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 05:33
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Pellisworth posted:In that screenshot I am getting utterly wrecked by the Ottomans +10% morale from piety and +10% morale from an adviser, we still have way more manpower so pull through Wait, aren't your force limits already much higher than anyone's combat width, even after the penalty? I think the idea is to have a deficit in order to run a combat width of space marines (assuming that you keep up in tech and have a good mil advisor), so that the force limit penalty doesn't matter
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Apr 26, 2017 05:38
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Detheros posted:The AI went from not giving a gently caress about going over dip relation limit to "gently caress you albania/byzantium, get eaten by otto over there." It's honestly a frustrating change. The AI are robots who automatically ally with other robots up until their diplomatic relations are full, while players are humans who have incomplete information and delay. Trying to compete with said robots for limited relations slots is an exercise in frustration. It reminds me of how you used to have to keep the advisor window constantly open in EU3 so you can snag important advisors before the AI because there was a shared advisor pool.
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Apr 26, 2017 06:34
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:It's honestly a frustrating change. The AI are robots who automatically ally with other robots up until their diplomatic relations are full, while players are humans who have incomplete information and delay. Trying to compete with said robots for limited relations slots is an exercise in frustration. It reminds me of how you used to have to keep the advisor window constantly open in EU3 so you can snag important advisors before the AI because there was a shared advisor pool. Did they remove the extra relation slots for players?
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Apr 26, 2017 08:05
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I haven't played 1.21 yet (my game time last night was spent looking at the map changes and poo poo because I'm an idiot) but if it's that bad I strongly suggest that they somehow hosed up, I've hardly ever seen the "too many relations" penalty previously anyway so it would seem strange for it to start popping up all the time now.
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Apr 26, 2017 08:15
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I've gotten a pretty decent Aztecs game past the first stage (the five reforms) and its taken the Europeans forever to show up. What ideas do you think I should lean towards after I reform fully?
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Apr 26, 2017 08:21
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I don't know how prominent it is since I haven't really played much, but I did run into it a couple times in the hour or so I played.
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Apr 26, 2017 08:39
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Mr. Fowl posted:I've gotten a pretty decent Aztecs game past the first stage (the five reforms) and its taken the Europeans forever to show up. What ideas do you think I should lean towards after I reform fully? Exploration, assuming you still haven't taken it. You want explorers and more colonists so that you can gobble up the good New World nodes before the colonizers take them (of course you won't be able to build boats for awhile, but you can still create conquistadors) Then probably Administrative and Defensive
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Apr 26, 2017 09:08
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trying to play 1.21, they must have broken something badly because i'm either getting one ally (within the opening seconds) or getting ostracized completely because everyone has formed a clique and i'm getting a massive malus was this patch designed by a bitter high school child?
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Apr 26, 2017 09:55
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How come when I get a total of -50% Mercenary Maintenance, the maintenance only drops from around .60 to .45? There doesn't seem to be any other modifiers affecting it. edit: Oh, because the higher-than-regulars maintenance is implemented as a +150% modifier to start with. That's kinda lame.
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Apr 26, 2017 10:47
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1.21 Manchu trip report: at 400~ development and with one ally (Oirat) and one vassal (Mongolia), I could break tributary and just wait it out while they spammed request to tribute. 8 years later, disaster fires and it's all downhill from there. Could get my cores back + south and north Heibei in the peace treaty, lost maybe 40k soldiers to something insane like 300k; at that point they have 10 years of truce at 0 mandate just putting out fires. Looks like it's relatively easy with a player Manchu, not sure how AI Manchu can handle it. However, mercenary spam is insane for AI Ming - 0 manpower, 75k troops of which 71 is mercs. Where the hell do they come from? canepazzo fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 15:56
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Why in the hells do you get -3 stability and +3 war exhaustion (wtf?) when declaring a war of independence? 
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Apr 26, 2017 16:19
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Poil posted:Why in the hells do you get -3 stability and +3 war exhaustion (wtf?) when declaring a war of independence? Are you truce-breaking?
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Apr 26, 2017 16:20
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Jabor posted:Are you truce-breaking? 
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Apr 26, 2017 16:31
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Poil posted:Why in the hells do you get -3 stability and +3 war exhaustion (wtf?) when declaring a war of independence? loyalists in your nation or something
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Apr 26, 2017 18:00
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So I want to play an Oirat game, how can I entice my lovely vassal to rebel? I want to conquer all that tasty poo poo to the East but they're in the way and they also won't let me annex them because of historical rivals.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:33
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RabidWeasel posted:So I want to play an Oirat game, how can I entice my lovely vassal to rebel? I want to conquer all that tasty poo poo to the East but they're in the way and they also won't let me annex them because of historical rivals. A quick and effective way would be to dismiss all your troops and not have any allies, they should be tricked into thinking they can win, obviously best not to do while bordering someone looking to attack you and take your stuff, and assuming you have enough space, manpower and money to quickly raise another army before they walk all over you.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:14
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Okay, I give up. Qara Qoyunlyu is an impossible nation unless the stars align. What a loving waste of time.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:26
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Koboje posted:A quick and effective way would be to dismiss all your troops and not have any allies, they should be tricked into thinking they can win, obviously best not to do while bordering someone looking to attack you and take your stuff, and assuming you have enough space, manpower and money to quickly raise another army before they walk all over you. Honestly at this point I think it might be easier to do Yuan as Korchin. Having extremely fast access to the gold mine in Buryatia and the Manchu lands makes up for having a fairly crap monarch. You'll be able to abdicate him in 1458, hopefully after having rolled a good heir. Plus with Feudalism no longer existing in that part of the world, I like the idea of culture shifting that one province and then dumping all your development from razing into it, giving you a big rear end boost to your wealth as well as jump starting Feudalism. Possibly this isn't exactly necessary if you can beat Ming fast enough but it sounds fun. Obviously it's even easier to just use Uzbeks or Timurids and do a cheesy religion switch strat but that seems to remove some of the joy from the whole thing.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:31
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How does Ming tech up so fast? We're at printing press 24% or so, I am about to embrace it, Ming's still missing Colonialism, yet they're 3 levels of adm/dip/mil tech ahead of me in Qing. What? Not to mention they have unlimited mercs (0 manpower, 96k troops all mercs, and more where they come from) and at 0 mandate + disaster are still not getting anything more than the token rebellion (that gets crushed with no issue). What is the weak point? Maybe Ming really is overpowered. At least I got Manchurian candidate, now I can move to more normal plays.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:48
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canepazzo posted:How does Ming tech up so fast? We're at printing press 24% or so, I am about to embrace it, Ming's still missing Colonialism, yet they're 3 levels of adm/dip/mil tech ahead of me in Qing. What? At that point, the weak point is an outside invader, i.e. you.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:51
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canepazzo posted:How does Ming tech up so fast? We're at printing press 24% or so, I am about to embrace it, Ming's still missing Colonialism, yet they're 3 levels of adm/dip/mil tech ahead of me in Qing. What? They have a disaster which will fire if they border a non-tributaried >300 development horde, which makes their troops suck and tanks their mandate value, making their troops suck even more. You will never outtech them, you need to get as big as you can as fast as possible and then go independent for long enough to make their mandate go down.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:38
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RabidWeasel posted:They have a disaster which will fire if they border a non-tributaried >300 development horde, which makes their troops suck and tanks their mandate value, making their troops suck even more. You will never outtech them, you need to get as big as you can as fast as possible and then go independent for long enough to make their mandate go down. Sounds like he's already triggered the disaster and tanked their Mandate except it doesn't really bother them. At that point you can beat them 3:1, it's tedious but very doable if you can field two combat widths of troops. With the increased revolts and lingering penalties they might collapse after you take the Mandate from them but the problem there is you'll have a really negative Mandate income yourself. Right now what you want to do is trigger the disaster and slowly grind them down over several wars while you get a bunch of tributaries, in particular make sure any nation that borders you is a tributary. This will probably involve forcing Ming to release some in a war deal which inexplicably costs the same as a full vassal. Then take the Mandate from them maybe around 1600 when your Horse combat bonuses are starting to lose strength and you have a bunch of tributaries so hopefully you won't tank your Mandate. Things I would still like to see tweaked: Ability to more cheaply break tributaries in peace deals Transfer tributaries in peace deals Non-tributary neighbors won't lose you Mandate score if you have a truce with them Right now it's not really beating Ming that's the tough part, it's setting things up so when you take the Mandate you have a positive or near positive Mandate income. Edit: you might be able to game it by feeding vassals so you don't end up neighboring Ming or something. The problem is once you take the Mandate you have a 1000 dev neighbor Ming which will tank your Mandate Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 21:56
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If you're going to be taking the Mandate from Ming take Exploration ideas and start colonizing. You want to build up a tributary network worldwide and there's lots of little nations in the Pacific, New World, and Africa that will happily sign up to join you. Also, if you really want to stomp Ming's face in hard core conquer Korea and Japan and use the economic might of those countries to fund your banner armies. It also helps to culture convert places so you can get even more banners. Development isn't bad either. As long as you're swinging hard into Ming before miltech 19 you should be able to run them over with cav. edit: don't take the Mandate in the first war, take it in the second or third. When you go to war with them after you take the Mandate go way above 100% overextension because you need to cut them down to size as fast as possible and that will mean eating some poo poo revolts. Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 22:09
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Agreed with breaking/transferring tributaries in peace deals. Honestly Paradox probably just forgot to add that as an option? Also, when a few provinces defected from a rival to my vassal, it gave the vassal a big extra liberty desire bonus beyond just the development. What's the reasoning for that?
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Apr 26, 2017 23:47
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Redmark posted:Agreed with breaking/transferring tributaries in peace deals. Honestly Paradox probably just forgot to add that as an option? You used to be able to release Persia as a small vassal then let their nationalist rebels get you shitloads of free territory. This is to prevent that
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Apr 27, 2017 00:15
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Is anyone else not able to save to the cloud with 1.21? It keep saying I lack space(i have 940MB Free) or I'm using forbidden characters(I'm just using country names).
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Apr 27, 2017 03:43
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genericnick posted:Did they remove the extra relation slots for players? Yes, or it's a bug. Allying with other nations especially as an OPM is a loving nightmare now. Recommend skipping this patch till they fix it, game is not fun playing "desperate for ally whack-a-mole". tqilamknbrd posted:trying to play 1.21, they must have broken something badly because i'm either getting one ally (within the opening seconds) or getting ostracized completely because everyone has formed a clique and i'm getting a massive malus seems like it I Love You! fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 04:24
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I Love You! posted:Yes, or it's a bug. Allying with other nations especially as an OPM is a loving nightmare now. Recommend skipping this patch till they fix it, game is not fun playing "desperate for ally whack-a-mole". Agreed. Ming will completely change its mind, arbitrarily, if they will accept you as a tributary. It happens randomly as Qara Qoyulyu. Once you become a tributary, you are immune to DOWs, even if Ming has no chance of reaching you. This expansion is bugged and unbalanced, bad.
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Apr 27, 2017 04:39
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