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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Ogmius815 posted:Hahahahaha you think the extreme left wants Obamacare to work.  Most leftists acknowledge ACA is better than what we had, but that it also should be replaced by a single payer system. If it were to fail, we'd default back to the lovely old paradigm
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Apr 26, 2017 19:33
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JeffersonClay posted:There'd be a lot more room for suspicion if this weren't a public event designed to attract financing for healthcare companies. Obama has a vested interest in healthcare companies getting investors so his signature healthcare bill doesn't death-spiral. his signature healthcare bill is already death spiraling last i heard. the insurance companies were saying they couldn't make money and were pulling out. too bad obama didn't care enough about his signature bill to get a public option in there that would act as competition and help keep the insurance cos honest. besides, i already told you i think this is just a convenient cover for repaying favors from obama Condiv fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 19:35
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Ze Pollack posted:Nah, I don't think it's explicit quid-pro-quo either. It exists in the same grey area all really effective regulatory capture exists in: "it is entirely possible this is just me doing this out of the goodness of my heart, but nobody involved believes for a second you'd be getting this offer if I considered you an enemy." Thanks, I generally agree with that. Especially that the unwanted influence is more of a systemic, self-reinforcing issue, and not that it is driven by specific intent or long term planning. It's like a financial influence feedback loop.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:35
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Condiv posted:his signature healthcare bill is already death spiraling last i heard. It's not, but Trump can, and probably will, make it death spiral.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:35
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:
I'm considering picking the book up, sounds neat. What kind of advice did Bill offer?
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Apr 26, 2017 19:37
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Majorian posted:It's not, but Trump can, and probably will, make it death spiral. the insurers stopped claiming it was killing them? i'm not the least bit surprised they were being dishonest moneygrubbers again
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Apr 26, 2017 19:38
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JeffersonClay posted:CDSs are not inherently fraudulent, was there any indication that Cantor Fitzgerald was committing fraud, or taking on absurd amounts of risk with the assumption the government would bail them out? Yes. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ct/pr/indictment-charges-former-cantor-fitzgerald-rmbs-trader-securities-fraud
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Apr 26, 2017 19:37
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Fansy posted:Yes. no that was just one guy (the dumb one who was made into a patsy)
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Apr 26, 2017 19:38
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Ogmius815 posted:Hahahahaha you think the extreme left wants Obamacare to work. What is the matter with you?  Condiv posted:the insurers stopped claiming it was killing them? i'm not the least bit surprised they were being dishonest moneygrubbers again Poitifact had a good rundown last month.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:40
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Pedro De Heredia posted:I had this same argument last night on the Trump thread and it was insane. Like, do people need to be explained that the potential / outward appearance of conflicts of interest is bad and often explicitly regulated against? It's because centrists are only able to relate to their political leaders as some kind of infallible demigods who deserve unquestioning and eternal loyalty by default and not as people that you can disagree with and criticize in good faith. I guess this is why they like to accuse the left of cultish behaviour, since they always accuse the left of poo poo they do themselves.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:40
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Single payer is extreme left, full on communism.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:42
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Majorian posted:What is the matter with you? Where were you when Willa Rogers and company spent years screaming about Obamacare and praying for it to fail in the healthcare threads?
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Apr 26, 2017 19:43
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Wuhao posted:I'm considering picking the book up, sounds neat. What kind of advice did Bill offer?
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Apr 26, 2017 19:45
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Pedro De Heredia posted:What Obama said doesnt matter. This isn't about catching Obama on a lie. It clearly does and is to some people.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:44
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Ogmius815 posted:Where were you when Willa Rogers and company spent years screaming about Obamacare and praying for it to fail in the healthcare threads? They were right
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Apr 26, 2017 19:45
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Ogmius815 posted:Where were you when Willa Rogers and company spent years screaming about Obamacare and praying for it to fail in the healthcare threads? I was there arguing against her. I think I probably got involved in more verbal scraps with Willa Rogers than anyone else here, between my current handle and my two previous ones. But no one here is arguing that they want Obamacare to fail, and very few people in the "far left" in the U.S., such as it is, want that either. You sound positively deranged when you generalize like that, when what people are proposing here is completely reasonable.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:46
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Fansy posted:Yes. I've referenced that indictment multiple times. That wasn't about the financial crisis, he was indicted for actions in 2011. This also blows up the argument that the 400k was a payment to obama for shielding Cantor from prosecution. frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:
It's completely plausible that Obama's appearance at this healthcare conference will promote investment in the corporations which Obamacare needs to remain functional. Maybe we shouldn't reflexively poo poo on it. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 19:47
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JeffersonClay posted:It's completely plausible that Obama's appearance at this healthcare conference will promote investment in the corporations which Obamacare needs to remain functional. Maybe we shouldn't reflexively poo poo on it. It's also completely plausible he could have done it for free if this were the case
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Apr 26, 2017 19:55
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JeffersonClay posted:I've referenced that indictment multiple times. That wasn't about the financial crisis, he was indicted for actions in 2011. This also blows up the argument that the 400k was a payment to obama for shielding Cantor from prosecution.  sorry, but obama shielding cantor from crimes committed in 2011 doesn't blow up the argument that he's being rewarded for a job well done protecting wall street from its many scandals
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Apr 26, 2017 19:59
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Condiv posted:
It's not a theory. Dude is barely out of office and was already a loving centrist neoliberal bank dick sucker.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:00
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Ogmius815 posted:Where were you when Willa Rogers and company spent years screaming about Obamacare and praying for it to fail in the healthcare threads? lol
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Apr 26, 2017 20:01
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i'm sure that cantor will meet justice for defrauding people after obama passed the case off to trump. cantor is definitely not rewarding obama for holding off on their case until it will not be prosecuted at all
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Apr 26, 2017 20:02
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Oh so Obamacare wasn't a huge get for the insurance companies? Tell me more about Hillary For President 2016 lol. I'm with her.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:03
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Black Baby Goku posted:It's not a theory. Dude is barely out of office and was already a loving centrist neoliberal bank dick sucker. i don't disagree. obama gave the banks everything they wanted and is being rewarded for it now
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Apr 26, 2017 20:05
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Condiv posted:i don't disagree. obama gave the banks everything they wanted and is being rewarded for it now Let me spin it: Obama had a wonderful working relationship with the drivers of economic growth.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:07
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JeffersonClay posted:It's completely plausible that Obama's appearance at this healthcare conference will promote investment in the corporations which Obamacare needs to remain functional. Maybe we shouldn't reflexively poo poo on it. why is obamacare so fragile we have to find investors for it constantly? is it gonna fall over the next time we have a recession and investment dries up?
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Apr 26, 2017 20:09
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:It's also completely plausible he could have done it for free if this were the case Yes, everyone who has ever been paid to do a good thing could theoretically have done it for free. There are bad optics here, but part of the reason the optics are bad is ideological opponents stripping his speech of all context. Wall Street paid obama to give a speech which will help Obamacare remain functional !!! Condiv posted:
He didn't shield them his justice department indicted him you dolt.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:15
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If FDR proposed the second Bill of Rights today, how would liberals respond?
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Apr 26, 2017 20:17
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JeffersonClay posted:Yes, everyone who has ever been paid to do a good thing could theoretically have done it for free. There are bad optics here, but part of the reason the optics are bad is ideological opponents stripping his speech of all context. Wall Street paid obama to give a speech which will help Obamacare remain functional !!! lol A) this is assumed context B) Even if its true, the Insurance companies will massively profit C) None of what you said negates the fact that an ex-president shouldn't accept cash for using his former office for clout Fansy posted:If FDR proposed the second Bill of Rights today, how would liberals respond? Only if none of them are allowed to have nice things except the people in number 4, subsistence only!
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Apr 26, 2017 20:17
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Fansy posted:If FDR proposed the second Bill of Rights today, how would liberals respond? stalinism
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Apr 26, 2017 20:18
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JeffersonClay posted:Yes, everyone who has ever been paid to do a good thing could theoretically have done it for free. There are bad optics here, but part of the reason the optics are bad is ideological opponents stripping his speech of all context. Wall Street paid obama to give a speech which will help Obamacare remain functional !!! indictment is the first step, not equivalent to a guilty verdict, and the indictment was made after he knew trump was coming to the WH. do you honestly think trump's DoJ is actually gonna prosecute?  i'm sure it's just a coincidence that it took 5 years to indict cantor. no guilty verdict means cantor gets away scott-free. I'd call that shielded and a job well done. Condiv fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 20:19
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JeffersonClay posted:Yes, everyone who has ever been paid to do a good thing could theoretically have done it for free. There are bad optics here, but part of the reason the optics are bad is ideological opponents stripping his speech of all context. Wall Street paid obama to give a speech which will help Obamacare remain functional !!! The pre-ACA healthcare system was functional. Jim Crow was functional. If 'functional' is your standard you may as well drop the pretense and admit you don't believe in a single one of the goals of liberals or the left more broadly, and that you're just here to troll Bernie voters
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Apr 26, 2017 20:22
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Fansy posted:If FDR proposed the second Bill of Rights today, how would liberals respond? Probably say it was pie in the sky full communism now, maybe you'll get a hot take on Sanders too.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:30
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JeffersonClay posted:Yes, everyone who has ever been paid to do a good thing could theoretically have done it for free. There are bad optics here, but part of the reason the optics are bad is ideological opponents stripping his speech of all context. Wall Street paid obama to give a speech which will help Obamacare remain functional !!! Of all the ideological conflicts to have, this is the least ideological. Being against cozy relationships between politicians and big business should not be ideological. It is not something that should just 'anger the Sanders wing'. Everyone should be bothered by this kind of thing (and, in fact, most people who are not devoted to specific politicians/parties do get bothered by it). This is one of the most insidious ideas that Democrats had in 2016, the notion that legitimate criticism of them is just 'leftism'. People said this all the time about leftists/Bernie bros to pretend that Clinton's issues in the primary were not going to follow her to the general (they did).
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Apr 26, 2017 20:31
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Fansy posted:If FDR proposed the second Bill of Rights today, how would liberals respond? The Democrats would reach across the isle to the Republican party and together would do everything in their power to have the man impeached and removed from office.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:32
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Condiv posted:hmm, something tells me you're being disingenuous as usual Attaboy! drat I'm willing to burn Kansas but you want to burn anyone who beans, corn, and other agriculture to Mexico.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:40
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JeffersonClay posted:Yes, everyone who has ever been paid to do a good thing could theoretically have done it for free.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:41
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Fansy posted:If FDR proposed the second Bill of Rights today, how would liberals respond? Lol get this kind of commie poo poo out of here. FDR? More Like Fuckin' Dick Roach
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Apr 26, 2017 20:42
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SSNeoman posted:Attaboy! drat I'm willing to burn Kansas but you want to burn anyone who beans, corn, and other agriculture to Mexico. you sure love republican trade bills and republican policies a bunch. you sure you're not a republican? also, our subsidized agriculture has nuked mexico's agriculture, causing the immigration crisis. imo that's a bad thing all nafta's ever been good for is pitting the poor of mexico against the poor of america to drive down wages Condiv fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 20:49
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a simple query for the extremist dirtbag leftists itt: if obama is taking this money unethically then why, praytell, havent the pupils of his eyes transformed into giant cartoon $$'s? just curious
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Apr 26, 2017 21:00
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