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Jenx posted:See...poo poo like this is why the Reserved List just makes no sense to me. No, nevermind how stupid it is, or how it may or may not be killing legacy and vintage and whatever. Nevermind all of that. They think that the community is like a big group of friends and not a customer base. "Hey buddy, you can trust us! Oops, looks like the suits have spoken, sorry man my hands are tied." Retromancer posted:He for real compared it to being raped and then said that I was the cancer that was driving him from the community. Was this over PMs? I'm not seeing it in the comment thread. I even tried to be positive and tell him that the expensive cards in the deck would still likely see play in whatever shows up in the new meta.
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Apr 27, 2017 14:35
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ShaneB posted:Here Thanks, this looks interesting
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Apr 27, 2017 14:34
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Sampatrick posted:I think it's extremely obvious that what happened is that SCG/CFB/whoever else called and told them that they need to fix Standard because attendance is falling faster than it did during CawCaw standard. Then WotC looked at the public outcry, shrugged, and decided to ban it. Not banning it at first was pretty dumb, but not banning it until five weeks from now would have been extremely dumb. This new standard cannot be as bad as what we just had or competitive Magic could take a hit that it won't recover from for years. As it stands, it might not recover from the last couple seasons being so loving awful. I can't recall people ever being this pessimistic about Standard being a fun format. People might say a current format is poo poo, but normally people still think a new format might be fun and exciting. Nobody was excited for this format. Not even the prospect of a Cycling control deck made people excited for this format. So WotC did what they had to do in order to hopefully get people interested in playing Standard. I think this is the least bad thing they could have done after not banning on Monday (even if Saheeli was the better ban). They have always banned things in a reactionary manner, sometimes they get it right but mostly they're wrong. They didn't even get the Caw standard bans right, they only should have banned Stonefirge Mystic, the card somehow Boros Aggro and Caw blade shared, but they banned Jace too because people hated it, it was expensive because it saw play in other formats and represented the dreaded 'pay to win' aspect of magic people complaint about. Sure it was pushed and overpowered, but so is virtually every eternal playable. A set later Snapcaster, an even more broken card, would get a pass because it was only rare, and thus affordable. I mean thank god they banned cat, card needed to go, but they banned it due to people being upset instead of because it was a format warping piece of poo poo that was ruining standard.
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Apr 27, 2017 14:35
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ShaneB posted:Here That actually looks like fun to play.
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Apr 27, 2017 14:37
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This might've been the best move they could've made at this point but they had to clown themselves to hell and back to get to this point in the first place.
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Apr 27, 2017 14:39
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And so now the combo is banned. Will Magic players stop to complain? I'm pretty sure they will not! YggdrasilTM fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 14:43
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YggdrasilTM posted:And so now the combo is banned. No but there's a difference between "I got T1 Thoughtseized!  " and "Standard is nigh unplayable with this combo still allowed".
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Apr 27, 2017 14:47
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Hi, I haven't played since Ice Age but was recently feeling nostalgic and decided to check it out again. Is there still a "core" set like Revised or 4th Edition, etc, or did they get rid of that concept?
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Apr 27, 2017 14:49
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Hi, I haven't played since Ice Age but was recently feeling nostalgic and decided to check it out again. Is there still a "core" set like Revised or 4th Edition, etc, or did they get rid of that concept?
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Apr 27, 2017 14:51
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Hi, I haven't played since Ice Age but was recently feeling nostalgic and decided to check it out again. Is there still a "core" set like Revised or 4th Edition, etc, or did they get rid of that concept? They got rid of it because they wanted each set to have a story because of marketing reasons. They have mostly pushed reprints to masters sets which aren't standard legal.
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Apr 27, 2017 14:51
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Hi, I haven't played since Ice Age but was recently feeling nostalgic and decided to check it out again. Is there still a "core" set like Revised or 4th Edition, etc, or did they get rid of that concept? They ditched it last year, the closest things now are "Masters" sets which are basically core sets for eternal formats but the packs all cost $10 a pop because the cards in the set are constructed staples.
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Apr 27, 2017 14:52
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YggdrasilTM posted:And so now the combo is banned. WOTC could also stand to gain support by supporting the people who play eternal formats only. I mean, that's more or less an LCG model. But apparently there aren't those of us who do that, even though I remember a substantial number of fellow college kids moving to that after standard was a garbage fire for consecutive years. 
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Apr 27, 2017 14:55
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Hi, I haven't played since Ice Age but was recently feeling nostalgic and decided to check it out again. Is there still a "core" set like Revised or 4th Edition, etc, or did they get rid of that concept? Important thing to note, fellow oldschool player... a lot of core rules are different now. Mostly for the best. Eg, Mana burn is long dead, the combat step makes way more sense, and instant speed stuff works very differently. Also, if you still have your old cards, and you played during Revised... congratulations. Your duals that were worth $20 a playset are worth a fortune now.
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Apr 27, 2017 14:57
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YeehawMcKickass posted:That actually looks like fun to play. Yeah, with a few edits I might give this a spin. I think 4 Censor's is a must and I'm not sure if you really want the extra turn cards
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Apr 27, 2017 15:01
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Hi, I haven't played since Ice Age but was recently feeling nostalgic and decided to check it out again. Is there still a "core" set like Revised or 4th Edition, etc, or did they get rid of that concept? Magic no longer uses the Core Set model. Instead, every expansion is designed to be accessible to new and returning players. Pop along to your local store for a Draft event, the current format - Amonkhet - is particularly fun.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:06
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Marketing New Brain posted:They have always banned things in a reactionary manner, sometimes they get it right but mostly they're wrong. They didn't even get the Caw standard bans right, they only should have banned Stonefirge Mystic, the card somehow Boros Aggro and Caw blade shared, but they banned Jace too because people hated it, it was expensive because it saw play in other formats and represented the dreaded 'pay to win' aspect of magic people complaint about. They banned Jace because Jace was the best card in that standard. Caw-Go was arguably the best deck even before Stoneforge was around. The other top tier decks were things like URx Twin featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, RUG Control featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, UW Control featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, UB Control featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, and then RDW and Valakut. Jace was more prevalent in that format than SFM. Also, you're insane if you think Snapcaster is better than Jace or SFM.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:09
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Pontius Pilate posted:Went 4-0 at the weekly modern tourney at the LGS with grixis death's delver. Got lucky in my matchups: beat jund death's shadow, abzan company, naya bushwhacker, and elves in the finals. Got $40 in credit.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:11
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Sampatrick posted:They banned Jace because Jace was the best card in that standard. Caw-Go was arguably the best deck even before Stoneforge was around. The other top tier decks were things like URx Twin featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, RUG Control featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, UW Control featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, UB Control featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, and then RDW and Valakut. Jace was more prevalent in that format than SFM. I kind of stopped playing in tournaments for a while when Theros block was released so I can't speak to that, but I did play standard during RTR/INN and Snapcaster wasn't degenerate or anything. Hell, I recall Thragtusk-laden aggro decks being the bulk of the format at the time
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Apr 27, 2017 15:21
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Well, it was a lot of Midrange Thragtusk decks but yeah, Swagdaddy was the most played card in the format. It was very diverse even accounting for that, however. Pretty much every archetype was viable in that standard.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:31
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The best part about Innistrad block was being able to trade Swagtu$ks for Liliannas straight up. They were just that good.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:33
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Sampatrick posted:Well, it was a lot of Midrange Thragtusk decks but yeah, Swagdaddy was the most played card in the format. It was very diverse even accounting for that, however. Pretty much every archetype was viable in that standard. Thragtusk Standards were actually pretty good, we got mad at resto/thrag at the time but there was a lot of different stuff going on & they all played pretty well against each other
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Apr 27, 2017 15:35
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INN-RTR owned because it had Esper Sphinx's Rev decks with Nephalia Drownyard as a win condition.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:36
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Attorney at Funk posted:INN-RTR owned because it had Esper Sphinx's Rev decks with Nephalia Drownyard as a win condition.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:43
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INN-RTR was a good standard Khans-Theros was a good standard I would not say the same of anything since
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Apr 27, 2017 15:43
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The one sideboard instant that allowed you to swap graveyard amounts with your opponents was also really good.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:45
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Sampatrick posted:Well, it was a lot of Midrange Thragtusk decks but yeah, Swagdaddy was the most played card in the format. It was very diverse even accounting for that, however. Pretty much every archetype was viable in that standard. I didn't say it was bad--I very much enjoyed my Ghost Dad deck. I was just pointing out that Snapcaster wasn't a degenerate or format-defining card in standard at the time, so complaining about it being on the level of JTMS or Cawblade is, to me, crazypants
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Apr 27, 2017 15:45
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Xaerael posted:Also, if you still have your old cards, and you played during Revised... congratulations. Your duals that were worth $20 a playset are worth a fortune now. Thanks! I Ebayed most of my collection, to include about 10-15 dual lands back in 2000 and got about $250 for the lot. I should try not think about that, huh? I should still have my 3 best decks somewhere I just haven't been able to find them yet. Hopefully this weekend.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:45
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I think KTK/BFZ was p good, all things considered. I even think RTR/THS wasn't as bad as people claim it was. Every archetype was viable and tier 1 in that standard. Just everything since SOI has been kind of garbage.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:46
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Bring back Block Party as a format!
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Apr 27, 2017 15:47
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Sampatrick posted:They banned Jace because Jace was the best card in that standard. Caw-Go was arguably the best deck even before Stoneforge was around. The other top tier decks were things like URx Twin featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, RUG Control featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, UW Control featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, UB Control featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, and then RDW and Valakut. Jace was more prevalent in that format than SFM. You are way off and the best deck after cawblade was Valakut by a mile in that format or twin if you prefer, definitely not Rug, which wasn't a control deck anyway. Jace was not more prevalent than SFM and also not better than it, at the time it was banned. Snapcaster was and is better than Jace in a format with preordain, although we never saw them together, and thragtusk was not the dominant card, it was snap, Geist and Resto, nobody was resolving swags once that deck broke out. Snap remains better in Legacy and modern than Jace, and SFM was better than both in standard and would be in Modern too. All the multi colored non SFM Jace decks were only a thing before Sword of feast and famine broke out and changed that format forever.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:52
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So what decks are now allowable in standard? The obvious ones that come to mind are B/G delirium that reoccurs Ishkanahs and G/W Tokens. Let us pray that a Marvel deck doesn't become a thing like it was.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:54
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TheChirurgeon posted:I didn't say it was bad--I very much enjoyed my Ghost Dad deck. I was just pointing out that Snapcaster wasn't a degenerate or format-defining card in standard at the time, so complaining about it being on the level of JTMS or Cawblade is, to me, crazypants It absolutely was in the deck that played 4, the UW Flash deck, and it was insanely dominant and the best deck in the format by a ridiculous margin.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:55
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Wizards has spent the last 20 some-odd years getting it wrong, and yet living through it. Necro Summer, Combo Winter, Time Spiral, etc ... There have been plenty of times in which I thought Magic would die. Hell, I have sold my cards off and on just thinking I'd never play again ... yeah, I stopped that for the most part. This game could keep chugging along, though I think that the shareholder syndrome (shareholders who have no clue but profits) is the problem now. They want more releases and I don't think R&D can keep up and not make broken poo poo.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:59
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They need to hire more people for dev, that are actually good at the game.
Lone Goat fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 16:01
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I think the problem with them banning Guardian now instead of two days ago like they should have is the messaging. People that wanted the combo dead were pissed already, people invested in the deck assumed they were safe for another 5 weeks at least so they're pissed now. And Wizards still refuses to admit they hosed up. They're using MtGO "data" to justify not banning the drat thing on Monday. 2 days isn't long enough to gather the kind of info they needed. By calling it an addendum, they're trying to pretend that the ban was potentially queued up before Monday's list. They really, really just need to suck it up, flat out say "We made a mistake" and move on. But they don't, and they haven't admitted that they've made mistakes until several months later. This has been a running theme since at least Khans at this point. If anything is killing player confidence, it isn't getting their cards banned, it's the way Wizards has been handling all this poo poo for the past few blocks.
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Apr 27, 2017 16:04
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Lone Goat posted:They need two hire more people for dev, that are actually good at the game. Just so happens melissa was part of the playtest group and it looked like there wasn't much emphasis on that team. It appears they have changed their mind on that front, maybe for the better.
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Apr 27, 2017 16:04
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Marketing New Brain posted:It absolutely was in the deck that played 4, the UW Flash deck, and it was insanely dominant and the best deck in the format by a ridiculous margin. Hmmm nope http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck_search_result.asp?Location=2013+Magic+World+Championship+-+Standard
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Apr 27, 2017 16:11
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Marketing New Brain posted:It absolutely was in the deck that played 4, the UW Flash deck, and it was insanely dominant and the best deck in the format by a ridiculous margin. Snapcaster was never in an insanely dominant deck in Standard. The best deck it was in was UW Delver which was the de facto 'best deck' for a while but hardly dominant, the big Standard events that season were mostly won by Primeval Titan decks iirc, and Birthing Pod was strong for a while too. I don't know why the Magic community has a tendency to remember all past Standard formats as one-deck or one-card formats when even the worst ones have had 3-4 top archetypes.
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Apr 27, 2017 16:14
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Thanks! I Ebayed most of my collection, to include about 10-15 dual lands back in 2000 and got about $250 for the lot. I should try not think about that, huh? At least you got to sell them :P My duals and power all got stolen, along with a huge chunk of my collection that spanned Legends to Exodus, by my psycho ex.
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Apr 27, 2017 16:17
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En Fuego posted:This game could keep chugging along, though I think that the shareholder syndrome (shareholders who have no clue but profits) is the problem now. They want more releases and I don't think R&D can keep up and not make broken poo poo. I couldn't tell you how to do it, but Wizards needs to change something about their development and production cycles such that they aren't locked into certain decisions a year or more before a set is released. I think it's crazy that if there's enough player outcry over some trend in the game, then the next three or four sets are write-offs because they were locked in before the complaints were raised. What other business could get away with saying "we know you're unhappy but FYI we can't even attempt to fix this for another year" the way Wizards has said that they started turning things around in Hour of Devastation.
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