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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW6E_TNgCsY
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Apr 27, 2017 18:25
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Jordan7hm posted:Aren't you in Toronto? Yea but I'm using this example to say if O Leary became prime-minister and went on a rampage to dismantle every government institution while enriching his friends it won't result in a left leaning backlash that takes us back to a better time. Instead it normalizes what otherwise would've been unacceptable right wing bullshit and let's parties like the liberals look amazing by comparison. I think what we are witnessing is an era where the Overton window is shifting increasingly to the right and through smoke and mirrors, internet echo chambers, denial, identity politics etc we have created a convoluted sociopolitical psychology not seen since the divine right of kings.
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Apr 27, 2017 18:25
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For me, the answer always goes back to this old quote from Prince of Darkness: YOU WILL NOT BE SAVED BY THE HOLY GHOST YOU WILL NOT BE SAVED BY BY THE GOD PLUTONIUM IN FACT YOU WILL NOT BE SAVED!!!
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Apr 27, 2017 18:26
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K71UbC1EaSE
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Apr 27, 2017 18:30
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EvidenceBasedQuack posted:Getting out of perma-lurk mode to remind you that Vox Pop Labs, the creators of Vote Compass, are responsible for mydemocracy.ca... It's pretty unsurprising to me that a Liberal aligned media company has once again tried to kneecap our social democratic party by touting a "lefter than left" alternative that isn't actually all that left wing if you spend a few minutes looking into their candidates and positions. Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 18:36
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Probably giving a crazy person too much credit but there might be a case to be made that speeding up the dismantling of Canada could be both inevitable and a good thing for Quebec, maybe BC as well. Voting in a heinous ultra right-wing conservative government might give Quebec the nudge it needs similar to how Brexit might energize the Scottish separatist movement. It's a stretch, and putting an incredibly generous spin on what's surely low effort trolling.
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Apr 27, 2017 18:51
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ChairMaster posted:Between voting for the Conservatives or the conservatives or the unelectable dipshits or the unelectable wifi conspiracy theorists, you should just pick the honest choice and vote Conservative. I know I'm late to the "hate on Chairmaster because he dared make a joke about not voting left wing!" , but this was a pretty great line.
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Apr 27, 2017 18:53
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Accelerationism won't work because all evidence in modern history seems to show that when things get worse, they just stay worse. Then that's the new status quo and things get worse from there. There is no backlash. There's no limit to how far you can grind people down, short of literally starving them. They just take it and accept it and rationalize it. Maybe some people snap, but the police are armed like the military and the rich live behind high walls. They just end up taking it out on their peers. Things are going to be keep getting worse regardless, but there's no reason to speed it up. Enjoy the not quite as bad while it lasts.
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Apr 27, 2017 18:55
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Everyone post their favourite 90s hit! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah5gAkna3jI
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Apr 27, 2017 18:58
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patonthebach posted:Everyone post their favourite 90s hit! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4UqMyldS7Q
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Apr 27, 2017 19:02
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https://youtu.be/p-qfzH0vnOs
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Apr 27, 2017 19:08
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I think what Chairmaster is trying to say is Full Communism Now
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Apr 27, 2017 19:16
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THC posted:It's pretty unsurprising to me that a Liberal aligned media company has once again tried to kneecap our social democratic party by touting a "lefter than left" alternative that isn't actually all that left wing if you spend a few minutes looking into their candidates and positions. For about ten years I had no idea Vox Pop Labs had any ties to the Liberals (or Greens?). At the time I thought it was just being biased against both parties looking at my Vote Compass results. More and more it does look like a deliberate attempt to depict the New Democrats closer to the Liberals, and the Greens outflanking them on the left. It's plausible, but at the same time several posters here made good points that all of these parties promote neo-liberal policies. If you have concrete evidence of collusion between Vox Pop and political parties, by all means post away 
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Apr 27, 2017 19:20
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vyelkin posted:https://twitter.com/christyclarkbc/status/857289025870110720 This letter is great. In the letter she writes: quote:For years, American thermal (or steam) coal exports moving through Canada have been increasing due to a shortage of U.S. port capacity. In 2016, 6.2 million tonnes of U.S. thermal coal was exported through the Port of Vancouver. The Port forecasts this volume to steadily rise as coal demand rises in Asia and U.S. port capacity is maintained or falls due to state and regional opposition. That's interesting. I wonder where she got those statistics. Oh hey, the Port of Vancouver has a website with a published yearly statistics section, let's see what it says: quote:Thermal Coal Exports Hmm, that doesn't seem like it's increasing. Okay, well maybe she's talking about the U.S. share of Thermal Coal exports increasing while Canadian exports fell...oh, all Thermal Coal exports from the Port in that timeframe were Foreign Cargo; there has been no export of Domestic Thermal Coal Cargo.
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Apr 27, 2017 19:21
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EvidenceBasedQuack posted:For about ten years I had no idea Vox Pop Labs had any ties to the Liberals (or Greens?). At the time I thought it was just being biased against both parties looking at my Vote Compass results. More and more it does look like a deliberate attempt to depict the New Democrats closer to the Liberals, and the Greens outflanking them on the left. Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 19:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GIz4-KcPNo
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Apr 27, 2017 19:33
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This one goes out to Prime Minister Justin <3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyhrYis509A
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Apr 27, 2017 20:37
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ChairMaster posted:Don't you guys want to the the end of things for real? Are you really content to let the status quo slide so very very slowly into the future we know is coming? To elect Hillary Clinton and Justin Trudeau and let them slowly siphon money and power into the hands of the people who already have more of it than they could ever need while we stand idly by and watch all our predictions come true over the course of our entire lives? Don't you want to see Donald Trump fire nukes at whoever he feels like? Don't you want to see the Conservatives dismantle all social supports and environmental agencies in the country and let the oligarchs turn entire provinces into the pits of Mordor in the search of petty resources we don't even need anymore? What do we have to lose that isn't already doomed? Are you a member of Soldiers of Odin by any chance?
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Apr 27, 2017 22:06
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I feel like a soldier of Odin poster would be more obviously pro "Canadian values" while embracing their adolescent grade nihilism , but anything's possible
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Apr 27, 2017 22:35
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I think they're more "everything will be fine if we gently caress over non-white people" and less "gently caress everything there's no point in even trying anymore". Either way, I'm flattered that someone finally got mad enough to spend however much money it is to buy me a custom title.
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Apr 27, 2017 22:50
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Good title imo
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Apr 27, 2017 22:58
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Take notes CI, ChairMaster is trolling this thread harder than you have in years
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Apr 27, 2017 23:03
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EvidenceBasedQuack posted:For about ten years I had no idea Vox Pop Labs had any ties to the Liberals (or Greens?). At the time I thought it was just being biased against both parties looking at my Vote Compass results. More and more it does look like a deliberate attempt to depict the New Democrats closer to the Liberals, and the Greens outflanking them on the left. I have a friend who works at Vox Pop Labs because I am part of the Canadian Intellectual Elite and he doesn't seem like the type. I once got in an argument with his roommate, also a Vox Pop Labs guy, over Quebec's ostentatious religious symbols ban, with him arguing in favour of the ban as a complete separation of church and state so that the state could be "neutral" in its dealing with all people and me arguing that that stance explicitly excludes minorities from "neutrality" and also explicitly forbids people from certain religions from participating in the state, rather than just acknowledging that people can treat cases or governmental work neutrally despite their own religious feelings, which funnily is something we never have to point out for white Christians. Another of the Vox Pop founders is a hardcore Quebec sovereigntist. Based on my intimate secondhand knowledge of how Vox Pop Labs works, they base a lot of their Vote Compass stuff on what the parties themselves tell them. So they reach out to parties and ask for their platforms and opinions on issues to inform the Vote Compass questions and stances. One reason why they might be more sympathetic to the Green Party is actually because the Green Party tends to be the most responsive party to these kinds of communications, and actually engages them in regular dialogue and actually answers their questions in a timely manner, whereas a lot of their other information has to be pulled from other parties' platforms and websites and is less precise. I don't think there's necessarily an explicit prejudice or any actual collusion between Vox Pop and the Liberal Party, if there's any actual bias it probably comes in the form of mutual membership in the kind of technocratic Pol-sci Department elite that runs our country. So basically what I'm saying is that idk wtf is going on with them
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Apr 27, 2017 23:19
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vyelkin posted:Effort post Thanks! I hadn't thought of it that way. It's unfortunate the Vote Compass is not a robust representation of which party better reflects the user. Because in my past experience it was certainly advertised as somewhat accurate. 
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Apr 27, 2017 23:35
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EvidenceBasedQuack posted:Thanks! I hadn't thought of it that way. It's accurate in the sense that a bunch of Poli Sci PhDs looked at the party platforms and determined what they consider to be the most accurate assessment of their stances on each issue, but it necessarily loses a lot of nuance when you actually break it down into 30 "agree/disagree" issue statements. tbh this thread might have a more favourable view of Vote Compass if we instead looked at in a sense where we all consider the NDP to be Liberal-lite anyway so they're not wrong when they say that, and the Green Party has the luxury of picking more radical policy positions because they know they'll never actually have to implement them, so of course they appear farther left on a two-dimensional plot. Really my issue with Vote Compass is that I don't think you can accurately represent political alignments on a basic "left/right, progressive/conservative" spectrum, and that when placing the parties' positions they probably pay too much attention to what they actually say in their platforms and less to what they actually do or their vote history in Parliament, which is an understandable choice but still leads to really misleading results like, for example, where they plotted the federal parties in 2015 versus how the Liberals have actually governed:  Vote Compass, if you actually look at more than one of their graphs at a time, tends to end up putting parties along a fairly direct top-left/bottom-right line, with very few parties ever getting put in the top right (economically right-wing but socially progressive) or bottom left (economically left wing but socially conservative) quadrants. Whether that's just because they haven't been covering elections with prominent populist or libertarian parties, or whether it's because they tend to equate social liberalism with economic liberalism too much and are therefore bad at representing parties like the LPC, or whether it's because they take the parties at their word rather than their history and those stances tend to go together in party platforms, I can't say. But I do think it has a distorting effect on people who take the test and end up thinking, for example, that the LPC and Trudeau are much farther left than their voting history or (now) governing record actually suggests, because Vote Compass doesn't take into account the fact that politicians lie. And I think that's understandable since that would open them up to a host of criticisms and concerns that they probably don't want to deal with, but then does, again, have a distorting effect. Also I never talked to my friend about the mydemocracy fiasco so I have no idea why they thought that was a good idea.
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Apr 27, 2017 23:53
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vyelkin posted:Also I never talked to my friend about the mydemocracy fiasco so I have no idea why they thought that was a good idea. The Liberal Party thought it was a good idea because they could ask vague questions, get vague answers, and then cite the vague answers as evidence of non-consensus. Vox Pop thought it was a good idea because they got paid to do it.
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Apr 27, 2017 23:57
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Whatever nerds make that vote compass thing should just stop because their tunnel-vision analysis is very bad
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Apr 28, 2017 00:06
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Supercar Gautier posted:The Liberal Party thought it was a good idea because they could ask vague questions, get vague answers, and then cite the vague answers as evidence of non-consensus. Yeah but there might be more to it than that. One thing Vox Pop does like to do is create these sort of "profiles" of political types, and do surveys to divide people into them. They did one a few years back for Torontonian political profiles and we had a good laugh about it in this thread at the time. So they might have been interested in the idea of finding out what kind of democratic profiles were out there and how many Canadians fell into each one, without necessarily thinking through (or at least having as a primary motive) either the functional political purposes of the LPC or the financial motives, which I'm sure did play a role. One thing to remember is that Vox Pop is, at its heart, an academic enterprise run by a bunch of Poli Sci academics who want to publish papers based on big data surveys of hundreds of thousands of people. When you take a Vote Compass test, you're not only finding out your own stance so you can share it on Facebook or use it to advise your vote or whatever, you're also providing them with a data point, and one of the primary purposes of Vox Pop Labs existing is so they can collect hundreds of thousands, or even millions, of these data points and then conduct quantitative academic research on them. (Aside: A big part of their academic profile over the last while has been in justifying uses of a massive self-selected data base rather than a small randomly selected one, i.e. 500,000 people who decided to do Vote Compass rather than 2,000 people you randomly selected for a poll, and still get representative results for a wider society) So I wouldn't be surprised if they had academic motives for mydemocracy based on trying to legitimately find out what people thought about underlying issues of electoral reform, in addition to the financial ones and the LPC's political ones. Again though this is all just my hypothesizing, I never talked to any of them about it and I think no matter what their motives were they should have realized what they were actually doing and done a better job of it.
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Apr 28, 2017 00:07
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That's just an illustration of what a bankrupt enterprise Poli Sci has become. You can't ignore the internal dynamics, history, or webs of relationships that define each party and treat them all like interchangeable organizations differentiated only by their electoral platforms.
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Apr 28, 2017 00:20
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I wanna know if Weaver's anti-union comments are a factor when they calculate that the BC Greens are the most left-wing party.
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Apr 28, 2017 00:24
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Helsing posted:That's just an illustration of what a bankrupt enterprise Poli Sci has become. You can't ignore the internal dynamics, history, or webs of relationships that define each party and treat them all like interchangeable organizations differentiated only by their electoral platforms. I agree wholeheartedly. That, and this: THC posted:I wanna know if Weaver's anti-union comments are a factor when they calculate that the BC Greens are the most left-wing party. are my fundamental problem with Vox Pop and Vote Compass: they're so dedicated to the contemporary trend of everything having to be quantified and quantifiable, And statistics, and Big Data, that as far as I can tell they tend to ignore, or at least severely undervalue, things like leader comments, speeches, past voting records, staffing, relationships, etc, etc, etc., all the things that qualitative Poli Sci used to look at, because those things would introduce a subjective element into their analysis and the whole goal of political science these days is to be as objective as possible and as quantitative as possible and frankly I think that's a dumb and terrible way to approach politics and that's why I didn't want to pursue Poli Sci further than I did at the academic level.
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Apr 28, 2017 00:33
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It seems to be the same old bullshit libertarian political compass poo poo that ends up putting fascists dead center because they make some noise about unemployment (for the right kind of people) and completely ignore the history of what defines right wing outside of their lovely "every political intervention in the economy is left" blinders that essentially make Tsarist Russia and Bismarck seem like havens of socialism. Besides the part where the libs were aggressively lying or being lied about by their water carriers in the media.
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Apr 28, 2017 00:37
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Unbelievably, ignoring the fact that the Feds are happy to shower money on any transit project, the BC Liberals, if reelected, are still going to require a referendum for any new revenue source for public transit projects.quote:
My "strong business case" for replacing the Pattullo is that it's going to collapse and kill a bunch of people. I dunno maybe that's not strong enough.
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Apr 28, 2017 04:12
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Im not sure how political it is but we got notices today that all insulin prices are going up by the maximum allowed under the law in Ontario. Same with all Pfizer drugs. Just in case any of you need more reasons to hate any politician that is currently promoting a private healthcare system like notable rear end Patrick Brown.
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Apr 28, 2017 04:22
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Femtosecond posted:Unbelievably, ignoring the fact that the Feds are happy to shower money on any transit project, the BC Liberals, if reelected, are still going to require a referendum for any new revenue source for public transit projects. Holy gently caress, gently caress the BC Liberals so loving much
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Apr 28, 2017 04:58
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Helsing posted:Take notes CI, ChairMaster is trolling this thread harder than you have in years CI's one weakness is that he actually cares
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Apr 28, 2017 05:03
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Femtosecond posted:Unbelievably, ignoring the fact that the Feds are happy to shower money on any transit project, the BC Liberals, if reelected, are still going to require a referendum for any new revenue source for public transit projects. I always like to remind people that voting for the BC LIberals will likely lead to death of many due to their idiocy.
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Apr 28, 2017 05:03
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CLAM DOWN posted:Holy gently caress, gently caress the BC Liberals so loving much Sounds like you have an anger management problem, this is why we need a strong stable jobs like Christy "Jobs" Clark protecting our jobs.
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Apr 28, 2017 05:20
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MikeSevigny posted:Sounds like you have an anger management problem, this is why we need a strong stable jobs like Christy "Jobs" Clark protecting our jobs. Hah, I actually like Horgan more for getting a little pissed, he has every right to, Christy is such a lying destructive corrupt pile of poo poo, I'd be mad too
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Apr 28, 2017 05:24
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MikeSevigny posted:Sounds like you have an anger management problem, this is why we need a strong stable jobs like Christy "Jobs" Clark protecting our jobs.
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Apr 28, 2017 05:30
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