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Snooze Cruise posted:Ophelia Stairs Julie Andromeda Mao - Andromeda was the daughter of a greek king chained to a rock to feed a sea monster. Unfortunately for her, Miller's middle name wasn't Perseus. Clarissa Melpomene Mao, Julie's sister, was mentioned a few episodes back during a Avasarala/Errinwright scene. Melpomene was the muse of the chorus, but later became the muse of tragedy.
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Apr 29, 2017 19:49
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Isn't Caliban's War a reference to the ongoing troubles in Afghanistan in Expanse-Earth ?
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Apr 29, 2017 20:13
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Oberron's Horn Arachne's Closet Carlito's Way
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Apr 29, 2017 20:20
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Golli posted:Isn't Caliban's War a reference to the ongoing troubles in Afghanistan in Expanse-Earth ? No, it's a reference to Caliban, a half-human slave in Shakespeare's The Tempest.
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Apr 29, 2017 20:19
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Snooze Cruise posted:Oberron's Horn Hey, remember me? It's Benny Blanco-Guanxi from Mars
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Apr 29, 2017 20:24
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In the show, Caliban is also the codename for the protomolecule monster.
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Apr 29, 2017 20:32
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Lord Hydronium posted:In the show, Caliban is also the codename for the protomolecule monster. Hence the reference to The Tempest's Caliban. In the play you have a half-human entity saying "gently caress you" to the humans; in the expanse you have the half-human half-protomolecule hybrids doing much of the same.
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Apr 29, 2017 20:33
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Phi230 posted:Hey, remember me? It's Benny Blanco-Guanxi from Mars This is a very good joke.
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Apr 29, 2017 20:36
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Number Ten Cocks posted:They could have also inserted a cartoon about Smurfs teaching the same lesson, but that would have been extremely stupid, out of place, and completely unsynched to the rest of the show. This was like that, but less stupid and out of synch. I would have preferred zero on both scales. That would've been great actually. Open an episode with a Misk & Mariska(or whatever the backpack dinosaurs were called) adventure featuring the drive, then cut to Amos and Alex drinking beer and watching it while the Roci is on a long drift. I'd prefer that over some guy sitting in a chair going "hi I made spaceships work welp time to die".
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Apr 29, 2017 20:45
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The show does have a distinct lack of Amos and Alex drinking and gambling their way through shore leave.
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Apr 29, 2017 20:56
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:Hence the reference to The Tempest's Caliban. In the play you have a half-human entity saying "gently caress you" to the humans; in the expanse you have the half-human half-protomolecule hybrids doing much of the same. His name is also an anagram for Canibal and, in most reading of Tempest as an autobiography, represents the groundlings or common folk. The dim-witted people easily distracted by pretty sights but incredibly fickle and likely to turn against you the second another option comes along, Shakespeare didn't really have a high opinion of the common folk. In the centuries since the play was written, Caliban has also become a sort of symbol of colonialism and how the Europeans treated aboriginal people they came across. Enslavement and complete dismissal of their culture and intelligence, pretty much exactly how Mao and everyone else in the series, except maybe Miller, treats the protomolecule.
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Apr 29, 2017 20:58
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bloom posted:That would've been great actually. Open an episode with a Misk & Mariska(or whatever the backpack dinosaurs were called) adventure featuring the drive, then cut to Amos and Alex drinking beer and watching it while the Roci is on a long drift. I'd prefer that over some guy sitting in a chair going "hi I made spaceships work welp time to die". Yeah this would have been rad as heck actually.
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Apr 29, 2017 20:59
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:His name is also an anagram for Canibal and, in most reading of Tempest as an autobiography, represents the groundlings or common folk. The dim-witted people easily distracted by pretty sights but incredibly fickle and likely to turn against you the second another option comes along, Shakespeare didn't really have a high opinion of the common folk. Yeah shakespeare was a total booj-lord and we didn't really get intentionally good, comprehensive portrayals of the common man's plight till death of a salesman.
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Apr 29, 2017 21:11
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Toast Museum posted:The show does have a distinct lack of Amos and Alex drinking and gambling their way through shore leave. This. Those two on shore leave hit every bar, brothel and gambling den when they aren't on duty.
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Apr 29, 2017 21:17
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:In the centuries since the play was written, Caliban has also become a sort of symbol of colonialism and how the Europeans treated aboriginal people they came across. Enslavement and complete dismissal of their culture and intelligence, pretty much exactly how Mao and everyone else in the series, except maybe Miller, treats the protomolecule.  The poor, primitive, victimized protomolecule. Dude, humans are the aborgines.
Number Ten Cocks fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 21:16
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Number Ten Cocks posted:
Well, I mean, it is an alien intelligence (or at least the closest thing the expanse peeps deal with till the gates and poo poo) and the first thing we do, because humans are p poo poo, is try to exploit it.
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Apr 29, 2017 21:19
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:Well, I mean, it is an alien intelligence (or at least the closest thing the expanse peeps deal with till the gates and poo poo) and the first thing we do, because humans are p poo poo, is try to exploit it.  What is the first thing it did upon discovering humans?
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Apr 29, 2017 21:22
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Number Ten Cocks posted:
Its job.  but no really, its job. protomolecule's an intelligent hammer and all the universe is its nail
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Apr 29, 2017 21:23
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I actually thought they were a bit harsh to the proto"monster" when it was on their ship. It seemed passive and only interested in food. Plant guy was right, it was clearly an intelligent sentient creature and maybe there would have been some way to communicate with it. Just give it a nuke's core and slowly approach it like in those street dog rescue videos.
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Apr 29, 2017 21:26
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:Its job. It just rose up and seized the means of production in order to build a better world.  You can't build a huge alien omelet without breaking a hundred thousand sentient eggs. Number Ten Cocks fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 21:25
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Number Ten Cocks posted:It just rose up and seized the means of production in order to build a better world. unironically, yes
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Apr 29, 2017 21:27
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Baronjutter posted:I actually thought they were a bit harsh to the proto"monster" when it was on their ship. It seemed passive and only interested in food. Plant guy was right, it was clearly an intelligent sentient creature and maybe there would have been some way to communicate with it. Just give it a nuke's core and slowly approach it like in those street dog rescue videos. I feel like if Holden hadn't just made up with Naomi there was the possibility of a love triangle here. Dumb, narrow minded writers.
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Apr 29, 2017 21:28
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scifi released a little video of the "best of" drummer and a promise that we'll see even more of her in season 3. That makes me happy. I'm glad they're expanding characters that apparently aren't really that important from the books if they have good actors or good fan reaction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrVgSVFXM8M
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Apr 29, 2017 21:31
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i like plant guy, i hope he TAKES ROOT in the ship and remains a major character after i assume they get his daughter back
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Apr 29, 2017 21:31
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Baronjutter posted:scifi released a little video of the "best of" drummer and a promise that we'll see even more of her in season 3. That makes me happy. I'm glad they're expanding characters that apparently aren't really that important from the books if they have good actors or good fan reaction. She's got to be replacing Michio Pa for the book 3 stuff (so backhalf of season 3), and I suspect with the show changes and how Holden found out that Fred Johnson has the protomolecule sample in the finale the Rocinante will be headed to Tycho for some sort of confrontation first episode of next season. They've got no leads or reason to hang around Ganymede right now, so that seems the the logical destination.
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Apr 29, 2017 21:34
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Number Ten Cocks posted:
You're assigning malice to an automaton. It wasn't meant to encounter multi-cellular life, let alone sentient life. It was doing its best to do what it was programmed to do.
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Apr 29, 2017 21:35
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Snooze Cruise posted:i like plant guy, i hope he TAKES ROOT in the ship and remains a major character after i assume they get his daughter back You're in luck, Prax is totes cool and vaguely important!
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Apr 29, 2017 21:35
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Phi230 posted:You're assigning malice to an automaton. It wasn't meant to encounter multi-cellular life, let alone sentient life. It was doing its best to do what it was programmed to do. It's a pretty smart automaton! But you're right, there is no free will and no malice, life is a war of all against all by automatons who sometimes mistakenly think they exist. I agree that the protomolecule does nothing wrong when it liquifies humans, humans do nothing wrong when they eat cattle, and the UN and Mars do nothing wrong when they oppress Belters.
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Apr 29, 2017 21:40
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Number Ten Cocks posted:It's a pretty smart automaton! But you're right, there is no free will and no malice, life is a war of all against all by automatons who sometimes mistakenly think they exist. yes now replace "life" with "capitalism"
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Apr 29, 2017 21:42
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Number Ten Cocks posted:It's a pretty smart automaton! But you're right, there is no free will and no malice, life is a war of all against all by automatons who sometimes mistakenly think they exist. My guess is you haven't read book 2 yet so I'll just say your dumb opinion is wrong and will be proven wrong in about a year
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Apr 29, 2017 21:43
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:yes now replace "life" with "capitalism" Capitalism is life, life is capitalism. Some can't accept this. Phi230 posted:My guess is you haven't read book 2 yet so I'll just say your dumb opinion is wrong and will be proven wrong in about a year I've read all the books and just finished a reread of book 2. In book 4 it explicitly thinks of humans as aborigines. It understand the concept and has no instructions to not destroy sentient life to accomplish its purposes. Nor does it care about loading/maintaining insane subminds based on absorbed humans, only the runaway Miller process cares and takes steps to kill the whole thing. Number Ten Cocks fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 21:42
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Some of the posts on this page really need more spoiler tags.Number Ten Cocks posted:Capitalism is life, life is capitalism. Some can't accept this. It doesn't think about anything. It's incapable of caring about the remnants of consciousness it contains. It's a fancy genetic algorithm, not an entity with even limited agency.
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Apr 29, 2017 21:52
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Toast Museum posted:It doesn't think about anything. It's incapable of caring about the remnants of consciousness it contains. It's a fancy genetic algorithm, not an entity with even limited agency. The only way that makes it different from humanity is that it lacks our illusions.
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Apr 29, 2017 22:40
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R-Type posted:From the show-watcher's only perspective, who the gently caress is Caliban and why should I care about his war. I know they titled a book from the series, but why name a episode that if it's not explained? The show at least put "CALIBAN PROJECT" on that pad Avasarala showed Bobbie. The word "Caliban" never appeared in the text of "Caliban's War." The literate masses were left to google "Caliban" and reach their own conclusions. (Or have familiarity with The Tempest and reach their on conclusions.)
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Apr 29, 2017 23:17
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Eiba posted:Honestly, you had a lot of book readers asking that exact question after reading that book. None of the book titles appear inside any of the books. Everyone should have to google Cibola unless you know some pretty obscure or specialized poo poo, and maybe the same for Abbadon, but the rest are at least fair. Caliban is the third most obscure, I'm not going to claim everyone should have read the Tempest or remember every character. Number Ten Cocks fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 23:29
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I knew what Cibola was, but that was more because I read a lot of stuff about weird poo poo when i was a teen, and the 7 cities of gold. My first reaction to Leviathan is that it's a Thomas Hobbes reference.
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Apr 29, 2017 23:40
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And Abbadon's Gate is a reference to warhammer 40k
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Apr 29, 2017 23:44
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Number Ten Cocks posted:None of the book titles appear inside any of the books. Everyone should have to google Cibola unless you know some pretty obscure or specialized poo poo, and maybe the same for Abbadon, but the rest are at least fair. Caliban is the third most obscure, I'm not going to claim everyone should have read the Tempest or remember every character.
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Apr 29, 2017 23:44
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Snooze Cruise posted:Ophelia Stairs The protomolocule discovers the Something Awful forums and uses it to study humanity. It subsequently "drowns" itself in one of Venus' lava plains.
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Apr 30, 2017 00:05
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MizPiz posted:The protomolocule discovers the Something Awful forums and uses it to study humanity. It subsequently preps the bull. This is genefic we are talking about here. Gotta shoehorn in a fetish.
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Apr 30, 2017 00:33
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