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The Deleter
May 22, 2010
TBB exists to troll the idea that people might have fun playing Netrunner.

hmmmm yes not interacting with the rules of the game is the best way to play, im a genius *shits pants*

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berenzen
Jan 23, 2012

He makes decks that are designed to do well at tournaments. That usually means having something that's designed to deal with glacier because it's one of the most consistently strong archetypes in the game.

I'd like to point out there are a lot of people that think that caprice + ash are terrible to play against. And to be honest, they kinda are. So having decks that can counter it is a good thing.

But man, You're getting really mad at a dude that makes decks that are designed to do well.

berenzen fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Apr 26, 2017

Destrado
Feb 9, 2001

I thought, What a nice little city, it suits me fine. It suited me fine so I started to change it.
People are always at pains to point out that TBB is an accomplished deckbuilder when it's mentioned he's a bit of a dick, and vice versa. It's as though he'd lose his powers, Samson-like, if he cut out being a dismissive jerk occasionally.

berenzen
Jan 23, 2012

Every time I've played vs. him, he's seemed like a cool dude, so I really don't know where the idea that he's a dick comes from.

Relyssa
Jul 29, 2012



I've never seen him be a dick and I've had plenty of interaction with him. :shrug:

The Deleter
May 22, 2010

berenzen posted:

He makes decks that are designed to do well at tournaments. That usually means having something that's designed to deal with glacier because it's one of the most consistently strong archetypes in the game.

I'd like to point out there are a lot of people that think that caprice + ash are terrible to play against. And to be honest, they kinda are. So having decks that can counter it is a good thing.

But man, You're getting really mad at a dude that makes decks that are designed to do well.

Despite my shitpost, I don't care that much that he makes good decks. I'd be more generous to him if everything he wrote didn't come across as "teehee, I've beat FFG's attempts to balance the game and kept Anarch top," but whatever. I'm more annoyed that I'm gonna go on Jinteki.net and face that MaxX deck for months and it's not gonna be fun.

Machai
Feb 21, 2013

every time I have faced MaxX the runner has milled their levy, their SoTs and any other recursion so I am personally okay with this meta

The Deleter
May 22, 2010
I guess I should shut up and pack Ark Lockdowns in Scorpius just to be super cruel.

Cinnamon Bear
Aug 29, 2016

by FactsAreUseless
I'm impatiently waiting for reviews of Terminal Directive, because if its decent and core+TD provides a nice limited environment it might be the last Netrunner purchase I make.

Baron Fuzzlewhack
Sep 22, 2010

ALIVE ENOUGH TO DIE

Cinnamon Bear posted:

I'm impatiently waiting for reviews of Terminal Directive, because if its decent and core+TD provides a nice limited environment it might be the last Netrunner purchase I make.

For what it's worth, here's one.

Cinnamon Bear
Aug 29, 2016

by FactsAreUseless

Well, that felt like it hit home for a lot of my feelings, and I'm kind of disappointed by the conclusions. I'll have to think harder about if I want to get it or just call what I have complete. Thanks for the link!

sonatinas
Apr 15, 2003

Seattle Karate Vs. L.A. Karate
holy crap this TD box is huge

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



sonatinas posted:

holy crap this TD box is huge

Core set levels of wasted space. This could have fit in a smaller box.

Supposedly comes with a full 3x playset of everything but IDs, and who cares about that?

The Deleter
May 22, 2010
Yeah it's pretty hilarious how much cardboard got wasted for TD. It's a common thing in recent boardgaming where they have enourmous boxes to try and catch eyes on the shelf, and then have most of it taken up by badly designed inserts. Level 99 games is real bad at this as well - I'm having to make custom boxes and poo poo because BattleCon is so huge and the insert so lovely for no reason.

I'm gonna break the TD box down, binder the legal cards and keep the legacy stuff in one of those Pokemon deckboxes with the dividers in.

E: I'm actually way more excited for playing Alya and a Shaper deck than I thought, everything in her set seems useful in some way. Still not excited about HB though.

Lichtenstein
May 31, 2012

It'll make sense, eventually.
Scored all 7 points in a single turn, via gang sign.

Feels good, man.

The Lord of Hats
Aug 22, 2010

Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?

berenzen posted:

Every time I've played vs. him, he's seemed like a cool dude, so I really don't know where the idea that he's a dick comes from.

Yeah, I live in the same area and have played against him plenty. I mean, he can come off a bit dismissive when it comes to Netrunner, but part of that is that he really does grasp the game better than just about anyone. He's certainly always been willing to explain stuff in more detail when I've asked; he really helped me get better. He's a chill dude.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

I beat him once on Jinteki while I was playing his Palana deck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJXKVOxqkWM

OhHiMaahk
Jan 8, 2014

sonatinas posted:

holy crap this TD box is huge

All fantasy flight games come in the same size box. It's one of the true mysteries of the universe.

PJOmega
May 5, 2009

OhHiMaahk posted:

All fantasy flight games come in the same size box. It's one of the true mysteries of the universe.

No this thing is bigger than a Core Set box. And oddly shaped. In fact I think it has unique dimensions among FFG.

Plavski
Feb 1, 2006

I could be a revolutionary

OhHiMaahk posted:

All fantasy flight games come in the same size box. It's one of the true mysteries of the universe.

That's not really true, is it? Arkham Horror core is a different size box than the Netrunner Core set. The Netrunner deluxes are a different size again, and the Arkham deluxes are different from them.

Plavski fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Apr 30, 2017

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006


Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

I think at some point, FFG made Core sets the size of Deluxe expansions. I think Conquest was the first to have the smaller one?

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...
So any more thoughts on TD? Is it worth getting? I can pick it up on the way home from work if so.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


You need to get it for the eternal cards anyway. The campaign is fun if you've got a person who can dedicate 5-8 games of time to play against you

Relyssa
Jul 29, 2012



TD UFAQ is here! Relatedly, I'm glad NRDB has the batch rulings now, gently caress wikia.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

Kaethela posted:

TD UFAQ is here! Relatedly, I'm glad NRDB has the batch rulings now, gently caress wikia.

I still don't know who draws the card at the end of Brain Rewiring.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


Still digging the HB ice that does a brain damage whether the trace is successful or not

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
I mean, at least the FAQ addresses that in its own clumsy way. I love all the times it says "Just pretend it ACTUALLY says this!"

I'm a little surprised at how sloppy this release is, it's far worse than anything FFG has released before in terms of Netrunner. I wonder if they recently restructured their QA department or something.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


CodfishCartographer posted:

I'm a little surprised at how sloppy this release is, it's far worse than anything FFG has released before in terms of Netrunner. I wonder if they recently restructured their QA department or something.
:ssh: they don't have a QA department, just some volunteer interns.

PJOmega
May 5, 2009

Kaethela posted:

TD UFAQ is here! Relatedly, I'm glad NRDB has the batch rulings now, gently caress wikia.

"No. An event that initiates a run is not considered fully resolved until that run is complete, and thus is not trashed until afterward."

Everytime I look at the engine running FFG's LCGs I begin muttering as I slowly lower the hood back. Makes no drat sense.

berenzen
Jan 23, 2012

If it was trashed before the run completed, run events wouldn't work because there would be nothing to resolve. Similarly, Deuces Wild wouldn't function if you chose the 'expose a piece of ICE and make a run' option first.

You have to resolve the whole card before an event gets trashed.

So Sure Gamble goes like this:

Costs: Pay 5 credits and 1 click (plus any additional costs that might exist)
Play: Play Sure Gamble
Resolve: Gain 9 Credits
Trash Sure Gamble.

If the trash and resolve steps were swapped, the resolve step doesn't occur because there's no reference for the effect.

berenzen fucked around with this message at 21:22 on May 2, 2017

PJOmega
May 5, 2009

berenzen posted:

If it was trashed before the run completed, run events wouldn't work because there would be nothing to resolve. Similarly, Deuces Wild wouldn't function if you chose the 'expose a piece of ICE and make a run' option first.

You have to resolve the whole card before an event gets trashed.

So Sure Gamble goes like this:

Costs: Pay 5 credits and 1 click (plus any additional costs that might exist)
Play: Play Sure Gamble
Resolve: Gain 9 Credits
Trash Sure Gamble.

If the trash and resolve steps were swapped, the resolve step doesn't occur because there's no reference for the effect.

Sure Gamble makes sense because there are no player actions possible between playing the action and resolution. A run is a lot of processing, and every other game with a robust system would have the "at the end of the run" be a suspended trigger with the card in the discard by that point.

Look, I stopped judging ANR events a long time ago. I've got no dog in the fight. But there's so many little things that FFG decided on while implementing it that would only make sense if looked at sideways while squinting if only there wasn't a lot of path already bushwhacked ahead of them.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.
Netrunner's rules make sense to me as designers trying to avoid complexity at every step and accidentally creating something far more complex and unintuitive than a single unified structure.

Phrosphor
Feb 25, 2007

Urbanisation

I see a lot of negative reviews for TD here and on Reddit. I was thinking of picking it up for some casual games with a friend, neither of us are big netrunner players but we both like the setting and game. Is it worth it for the narrative or are we better off just avoiding it?

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug
Having not played TD but being a big netrunner fan in general, I suspect the really critical reviews are coming from the super hardcore fans. I think a casual fan would probably enjoy it a lot, from what I've read.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

The campaign is fun if you've got a person who can dedicate 5-8 games of time to play against you

Destrado
Feb 9, 2001

I thought, What a nice little city, it suits me fine. It suited me fine so I started to change it.
As a super hardcore fan I am quite enjoying it, the criticisms seem to focus on the campaign being imbalanced and the narrative not being all that. Both are fair points, but I felt like it was a result of opening big Timmy campaign cards with pretty inconsequential flavour text. The campaign's involved a lot of laughter and swearing for me, but I think it's a matter of the temperament you go into it with. A finely honed battle of wits this is not, it's a box for throwing cards at each other in mock outrage.

Overall I'm satisfied by it and want to see how they refine the concept. I'm cutting FFG some slack for trying something new.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


Destrado posted:

As a super hardcore fan I am quite enjoying it, the criticisms seem to focus on the campaign being imbalanced and the narrative not being all that. Both are fair points, but I felt like it was a result of opening big Timmy campaign cards with pretty inconsequential flavour text. The campaign's involved a lot of laughter and swearing for me, but I think it's a matter of the temperament you go into it with. A finely honed battle of wits this is not, it's a box for throwing cards at each other in mock outrage.

Overall I'm satisfied by it and want to see how they refine the concept. I'm cutting FFG some slack for trying something new.

:same:, except the fact that FFG suggests to use Magnum Opus in the Shaper deck is some bullshit. Mopus ruins limited formats, straight-up.

The story cards were really cool though, it was awesome reading the story where Todachine shows up and is a badass, then seeing his card, where indeed he is!

Destrado
Feb 9, 2001

I thought, What a nice little city, it suits me fine. It suited me fine so I started to change it.

Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

The story cards were really cool though, it was awesome reading the story where Todachine shows up and is a badass, then seeing his card, where indeed he is!

There was a very hearty What the gently caress?! when I saw that card go into my buddy's Skorpios deck.

Close second: Opening the Cautions in Runner Pack 2 and being a Shaper.


I feel like Mopus isn't all that when the format is really fast, the Corp has IPO and Hunter-Seeker, and your in-box breakers heavily depend on spare MU. Oh, and no tutoring and only 2 Mopus in the core, better hope you draw/NVRAM it. It's still a good card, but it's not your one-card solution to all problems like it is in Draft or such.

FRINGE
May 23, 2003
title stolen for lf posting
Whats everyone going to do with the early sets? I havent bought a set since the end of SanSan, and now that a huge chunk of what I own is going to become garbage this year Im pretty disenchanted with paying 200+ to catch up.

edit: From that review, pretty much this:

quote:

When my friends and I started going to meet-ups, everyone in the scene was playing around five games a week, which means the refinement of our decks was a magical, personal process. Today, when you and your friends can test the same deck six or seven times a night, with no tedious sleeving and unsleeving cards, you end up with brutal decks that are more science than art.

As my friend Tim puts it, when we started playing Netrunner we could design a deck and think it might just work. “There is always hope.” By the time we got good, the best decks in the world were in such rapid circulation in our local meets that to play anything else felt silly. We’d get new cards, design a deck on our lunch break… and feel that we’d wasted our time, because the deck wouldn’t stand up to the world’s best. Our prize for getting good at the game was realising that every deck we made wasn’t competitive.

And yeah that box is comical:

FRINGE fucked around with this message at 07:16 on May 4, 2017

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fomo sacer
Feb 14, 2007

FRINGE posted:

Whats everyone going to do with the early sets? I havent bought a set since the end of SanSan, and now that a huge chunk of what I own is going to become garbage this year Im pretty disenchanted with paying 200+ to catch up.

edit: From that review, pretty much this:


And yeah that box is comical:


I'll be using my rotated cards to cube with, which is in any case the best way to play netrunner.

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