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RyokoTK
Feb 12, 2012

I am cool.

FactsAreUseless posted:

Ladders are used to descend when limited space is available.

Scientific evidence suggests that they are a thrill.

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RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




FactsAreUseless posted:

Your character's perception of time is distorted by the poisonous fumes.

Every escort quest where the VIP is suicidal is a purposeful reflection on how they react to a life or death situation.

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.
Escort quest AI is a case study on fight or flight responses.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


Dark Souls :

Some Weapon upgrade paths are completely redundant because you unlock them past the point they would have been useful, in the endgame. What's worse is that the Embers which grant these paths don't carry over into new game plus, making them more pointless.

Siegmeyer died to a second Chaos Eater I forgot to kill beforehand. Just how weak was he? Those guys are lamer than the dragon butts.

It wasn't until DS2 that the stat system got engaging, as every stat was valuable and you could change your mind later. Here everyone goes Endurance 40 and that's it. The legend never dies.

In spite of its many issues Demon's Souls was better. A problem with Dark Souls is that it's padded. There didn't need to be three Asylum Demon bosses, Demon Ruins and Izalith didn't need to be two separate levels with tons of copy-pasted enemies, Duke's Archive's didn't need a Crystal Cave level.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Some Weapon upgrade paths are completely redundant because you unlock them past the point they would have been useful, in the endgame. What's worse is that the Embers which grant these paths don't carry over into new game plus, making them more pointless.

Doubly so because the vast majority of cases, unless you're a wizard or one of those dicks invading in the burg there's no particular reason to use anything other than a regular +15 weapon in Dark Souls.

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

RyokoTK posted:

Scientific evidence suggests that they are a thrill.

ArtIsResistance
May 19, 2007

QUEEN OF FRANCE, SAVIOR OF LOWTAX

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Duke's Archive's didn't need a Crystal Cave level.

I dunno it was pretty cool to get to the top of the Archives and then an immortal dragon kills you and then you go to jail and then you go outside the archives and oh poo poo, it's dat caaaaaave and you fight the dragon in there and win

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

RyokoTK posted:

Scientific evidence suggests that they are a thrill.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


ArtIsResistance posted:

I dunno it was pretty cool to get to the top of the Archives and then an immortal dragon kills you and then you go to jail and then you go outside the archives and oh poo poo, it's dat caaaaaave and you fight the dragon in there and win

The funniest thing about that is the futurepress guide makes a comment about "now pick up your soul from where you got murdered the just for seeing seathe"

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.
Crystal Caves is short but the slanted ramps have the worst collision in the game.

poptart_fairy
Apr 8, 2009

by R. Guyovich

Somfin posted:

"It's badly designed" is often used (by people who don't make stuff) as a way of saying "I don't like it." Appealing to it being made that way intentionally is usually an attempt to get people to see it as a decision rather than a failed attempt at something better. I hate turn-based combat, but I can understand it as a deliberate design decision rather than a failure to deliver a better combat experience.

OK but the context was an "arty" decision that's inconsistent and pretty half-assed when it comes to the gameplay side.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


Oh, and the Centipede demon was a baffling fight because you don't know what you're looking at, can't move off a small island surrounded by lava, and if you lock-on your character vomits through their helmet visor because of his up-close flailing. He wasn't hard, just dumb and it's a shame because he's one of the few enemies in the area that wasn't a rehash.

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010

Nuebot posted:

You don't have to play on hard?

Once I manned up (and learned how to dodge counter properly) the combat on hard is pretty drat good. It's the "take away your items and upgrades unless you save scum" mechanic that's pissing me off at the moment.

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

The Switch, like most modern consoles, has pretty much done away with instruction manuals entirely. Of course, this doesn't help when things aren't loving explained by the game.

Take Mario Kart 8 DX - when you lock in your racer, if you press +/- to see the stats of your kart parts, you'll see three options below - some kinda antenna, some kinda tilt controls, and an arrow pointing ahead of a kart. Other than the tilt controls toggle, the other two are kind of inscrutable, and have zero explanation in the game's built in Info page. I think the antenna thing is some kind of driver assist, as far as I can guess (because seriously, not explained ANYWHERE). The other one? No idea.

How do you gently caress up interfaces this bad in 2017, on a game that you've already released once before, no less? Nintendo, get your poo poo together.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Action Tortoise posted:

Crystal Caves is short but the slanted ramps have the worst collision in the game.

Yeah, on repeat, non-completionist playthroughs you can get through it in like a minute. Sucks figuring it out the first time, though.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Strom Cuzewon posted:

Once I manned up (and learned how to dodge counter properly) the combat on hard is pretty drat good. It's the "take away your items and upgrades unless you save scum" mechanic that's pissing me off at the moment.

I played on normal and the only thing that killed me was the optional boss. :shrug:

Lord Lambeth
Dec 7, 2011


food court bailiff posted:

The Switch, like most modern consoles, has pretty much done away with instruction manuals entirely. Of course, this doesn't help when things aren't loving explained by the game.

Take Mario Kart 8 DX - when you lock in your racer, if you press +/- to see the stats of your kart parts, you'll see three options below - some kinda antenna, some kinda tilt controls, and an arrow pointing ahead of a kart. Other than the tilt controls toggle, the other two are kind of inscrutable, and have zero explanation in the game's built in Info page. I think the antenna thing is some kind of driver assist, as far as I can guess (because seriously, not explained ANYWHERE). The other one? No idea.

How do you gently caress up interfaces this bad in 2017, on a game that you've already released once before, no less? Nintendo, get your poo poo together.

At least with the Wii U, you could check out the instruction manual ingame by pressing the home button. Dunno if that's in the switch.

Schubalts
Nov 26, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.

Feonir posted:

Did he not call Something Awful's own Dark ID a cultural ambassador to the west? I seem to recall that being a thing. In all its insane glory.

He did, because Dark Id's Nier LP brought an absurd amount of internet attention back to Nier, and it actually started selling again. Taro found out what was going on, and the rest is history.

swamp waste
Nov 4, 2009

There is some very sensual touching going on in the cutscene there. i don't actually think it means anything sexual but it's cool how it contrasts with modern ideas of what bad ass stuff should be like. It even seems authentic to some kind of chivalric masculine touching from a tyme longe gone

ArtIsResistance posted:

I dunno it was pretty cool to get to the top of the Archives and then an immortal dragon kills you and then you go to jail and then you go outside the archives and oh poo poo, it's dat caaaaaave and you fight the dragon in there and win

I love it. It's really disorienting and weird. Plus it's cool that Seathe lives in a nest he probably secreted behind the actual nice house that the gods gave him.

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

Lord Lambeth posted:

At least with the Wii U, you could check out the instruction manual ingame by pressing the home button. Dunno if that's in the switch.

Nope! Like I said, no digital manuals whatsoever.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


food court bailiff posted:

Nope! Like I said, no digital manuals whatsoever.

This is about Zelda but

quote:

I don't think it's a massive oversight. It's a game of adventure and discovery. Pretty much everything in game has explanations if you want them but they're not endlessly thrust in your face. It's so well put together that a manual couldn't really tell you much that isn't covered in game and accessible at any point. Plus, if you're worried about remembering some piece of advice an in game character is giving you, just 'capture' it and refer to it at any time.

People really will defend any terrible decision from companies they love won't they?

Schubalts
Nov 26, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.
At least Breath of the Wild has labeled buttons that appear on screen and tutorials for everything, to take some of the pain. That Mario Kart UI just sounds useless.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Mementos. Just everything about them. The music, the decor, the comments from the characters about how boring they are

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006

Schubalts posted:

At least Breath of the Wild has labeled buttons that appear on screen and tutorials for everything, to take some of the pain. That Mario Kart UI just sounds useless.

I remember the UI being like that but I looked earlier today and it was clearly labeled. Also there is a simple manual accessable from the main menu.

Black Pants
Jan 16, 2008

Such comfortable, magical pants!
Lipstick Apathy
I just recently obtained and played Dishonored and while I guess the game was alright (but also dumb and short), there are some small issues that really destroyed the game for me.

First of all, I was playing on PC, and despite this there is a button that does two things: block, or, if you are in the right position, do a silent takedown of an enemy. ..the problem being that the 'right position' can be really, really finicky leading to so loving many times where I timed everything perfect, darted up behind some guard's back, then repeatedly blocked at him before he noticed me and turned around.

The second and third issues are connected. I wanted to do a no kills, no detection achievement run and found out (almost) immediately that 'No kills' takes on a particular meaning in Dishonored: it means kills by anyone, in any manner, for any reason. NPCs in that game are assholes, and there are several encounters that, when activated, cause unavoidable deaths unless you're really really lucky with the knockout crossbow. For example: If, on the second last mission, you decide to expose the traitor peacefully, you'll come down the stairs from the propaganda broadcast room to find two guards holding him. Despite being a frail old man, he'll escape their hold and run away. ...followed by the guards who chase after and kill him. And, if you shoot him with a sleep arrow to prevent that, the guards will come running looking for you. The second half of this issue is that if you do everything perfectly but in the process of doing so load a save from a previous mission to do something differently, that fucks up the achievement tracking for Ghost (complete all missions, alerting no one and killing no one) despite giving me Shadow (complete all missions without alerting anyone) AND reading 0 deaths on every mission. :argh:

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

I am getting really sick of ann in persona 5 getting perved over with the whole thing repeatedly being played for laughs. I'm 50 hours in and it's still happening. Ha ha! sexual harassment is funny!

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.
I keep missing the timing for visceral attacks in bloodborne. I can stagger guys but I'm either too late or too fast with the follow up to trigger the attack.

I was playing the game prepatched so I'm not sure if that affects anything.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

I have come to the opinion that stealth games should have either no non-lethal or lethal alternatives because it breaks brains.

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire

Barudak posted:

I have come to the opinion that stealth games should have either no non-lethal or lethal alternatives because it breaks brains.

Its really bizzare because somehow it's become part of the cultural expectation that you offer both options and the result is the non lethal option is generally more frustrating and means I'm not using the majority of the games weapons, but I end up feel like I'm being judged by the game for not using the non lethal options.

Black Pants
Jan 16, 2008

Such comfortable, magical pants!
Lipstick Apathy
If there is stealth in a game I tend to go in hardcore on it because I'm bad at twitch shooting and I like stealth puzzles and generally when a game is built with stealth in mind the combat is retarded anyway. So I tend to treat all stealth games like the highest Metal Gear Solid difficulty: detection means death.

Dishonored is super weird about it too. The whole game world is built for stealth and if you kill people you get high chaos which means lots of zombies so you gently caress yourself over. But then you have most of the game's available upgrades and purchasables being about deadly force.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

Black Pants posted:

If there is stealth in a game I tend to go in hardcore on it because I'm bad at twitch shooting and I like stealth puzzles and generally when a game is built with stealth in mind the combat is retarded anyway. So I tend to treat all stealth games like the highest Metal Gear Solid difficulty: detection means death.

Dishonored is super weird about it too. The whole game world is built for stealth and if you kill people you get high chaos which means lots of zombies so you gently caress yourself over. But then you have most of the game's available upgrades and purchasables being about deadly force.
Dishonored was pretty clearly originally built around the high chaos ending and being more of an assassin than a Thief clone. Then the non-lethal methods of removing mission targets were added, chaos and the multiple endings were added, and you got a game that has a ton of detail lavished on killing people in imaginative ways but debateably discourages it. Dishonored 2 improves the non-lethal playstyle a lot and gives you tools for non-lethal that don't ultimately turn to "never get detected ever". A non-lethal frontal approach is totally doable, so the whole thing feels a lot less odd.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


MGSV did non-lethal right. You got a score bonus if you finished a mission without killing anyone, but it wasn't mandatory to getting an S-rank as being stealthy or fast would get you the same result You can also spare soldiers, not out of the goodness of your heart, but because they would be better off making card-board boxes on your assembly-line oil-rig. There are missions were you have to kill, but that's not a problem because you're playing a hardened mercenary, not Julie Andrews.

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

Black Pants posted:

If there is stealth in a game I tend to go in hardcore on it because I'm bad at twitch shooting and I like stealth puzzles and generally when a game is built with stealth in mind the combat is retarded anyway. So I tend to treat all stealth games like the highest Metal Gear Solid difficulty: detection means death.

Dishonored is super weird about it too. The whole game world is built for stealth and if you kill people you get high chaos which means lots of zombies so you gently caress yourself over. But then you have most of the game's available upgrades and purchasables being about deadly force.
You're playing Dishonored wrong. What makes Dishonored good is being seen, then trying to figure out a way to escape and re-approach the situation without having to kill a ton of people. It's a game that gives you a lot of options to keep going when things go wrong, which is the most exciting part of the game. You can also kill about a quarter of the enemies and stay in low chaos, which is a lot.

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.
I'm guilty of savescumming for perfect results but fudging stealth and trying to save a run is definitely the best way to enjoy a sneaking game

Inspector Gesicht posted:

MGSV did non-lethal right. You got a score bonus if you finished a mission without killing anyone, but it wasn't mandatory to getting an S-rank as being stealthy or fast would get you the same result You can also spare soldiers, not out of the goodness of your heart, but because they would be better off making card-board boxes on your assembly-line oil-rig. There are missions were you have to kill, but that's not a problem because you're playing a hardened mercenary, not Julie Andrews.

I love MGSV because once you get a hang of the enemy AI's patterns you can exploit them to behave exactly the way you want. I used to think No Trace runs were impossible until I figured out how to consistently hold up guards.

The game's really good at letting you choose how easy/hard or how discreet/loud you want a mission to be not from any difficulty setting but on your loadout.

Zahi
Jun 4, 2009

bent

Guy Mann posted:

Tons of games quietly use procedural generation to help with things like generating terrain or creating a forest without having to place thousands of trees by hand and it can work pretty well for that. The most popular recent one I can think of is Horizon Zero Dawn, I'm on my phone so I can't dig it up but I remember them building up a lot of the new procedural generation tech that went into making it.

Which would fit strongly with the main plot ideas in the game, but they still didn't do the lazy thing of making the world a huge empty hellscape like the bethesda games and handcrafted a lot of it.

RyokoTK
Feb 12, 2012

I am cool.
I thought only Oblivion (and maybe FO3?) were procgen and they handcrafted Skyrim, or at least did what Guy Mann was talking about and built the terrain/dungeons and generated the doodads like trees.

Death Zebra
May 14, 2014

A few more complaints about Tales of Symphonia 2:

- There are trophies for watching all skits and capturing all monsters but there is no indication of which you've already got.

- The optional dungeon is several hours long, has massive randomly generated floors and the end boss only has a chance of dropping it's treasure. Thankfully there are save points and the dungeon is repeatable which is a point in the games favour. Others have disappointed by having content like optional superbosses on a once per playthrough basis...which isn't been a problem if you have the sense to create an extra save file unlike me.

- The game does not explain stat growth. It's apparently weighted in favour of stats which are already high and points are not redistributed from stats which are already maxed. Cooking, which affects stats, is also unexplained and characters, without any player choice, may mix in extra ingredients which have detrimental effects.

- Cutscenes are skippable but dialogue scenes are not. You can set text scroll speed to instant but the benefits are limited as text bubbles can be a second or more apart. This gets grating as the game frequently showers you with them in quick succession and you need 2 playthroughs to unlock the highest difficulty.

- The quests are highly repetitive and typically involve redoing a previous dungeon in its entirety with most of the puzzles already solved. I swear I've been through that goddamn ore mine 20 times. The quests' rank can be too low as well. I've been getting quests with a recommended level of 30 or even 20 at a time where you can easily be above 50 without grinding.

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005




Guy Mann posted:

Tons of games quietly use procedural generation to help with things like generating terrain or creating a forest without having to place thousands of trees by hand and it can work pretty well for that. The most popular recent one I can think of is Horizon Zero Dawn, I'm on my phone so I can't dig it up but I remember them building up a lot of the new procedural generation tech that went into making it.

I think Assassin's Creed Syndicate's London was mostly procedurally generated, which is impressive considering how well it hangs together in gameplay, as well as architecturally and historically. They just set up the major buildings and landmarks and let an algorithm do the rest.

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax

Barudak posted:

I have come to the opinion that stealth games should have either no non-lethal or lethal alternatives because it breaks brains.

People complained about Mirror's Edge letting you use guns so in Mirror's Edge Catalyst they removed the option entire entirely and then people complained about that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMjQ3hA9mEA

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ShootaBoy
Jan 6, 2010

Anime is Bad.
Except for Pokemon, Valkyria Chronicles and 100% OJ.

Part of the reason the non lethal stuff in Dishonored 1 feels tacked on is because it totally is.

They made the game with lethal in mind, then got it back from the playtester's with a giant "Where's the non lethal?" on it. So they had to go cram it all in at the last minute.

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