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Crazycryodude posted:Think we can trade the data to the US for an Arleigh Burke? Higgins should be retired by now... right?
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Apr 30, 2017 17:45
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Think we could get a bidding war for the data? I bet USA, EU, Russia all want some. Maybe India or China too. 
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Apr 30, 2017 17:47
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Crazycryodude posted:Think we can trade the data to the US for an Arleigh Burke? No way in hell it's worth that much. In fact, I think folks may be overestimating the value in general. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spruance-class_destroyer This may be doable as a planned asset. If we can somehow get one that's serviceable. Those VLS cells are plenty to overwhelm an IADS. Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Apr 30, 2017 |
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Apr 30, 2017 17:49
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You're just not lobbying hard enough. It's not about what the data's actually worth, it's about what it's worth PLUS a few kickbacks for the right Pentagon officials to bump it up an order of magnitude.
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Apr 30, 2017 17:52
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Crazycryodude posted:You're just not lobbying hard enough. It's not about what the data's actually worth, it's about what it's worth PLUS a few kickbacks for the right Pentagon officials to bump it up an order of magnitude. This man is wise.
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Apr 30, 2017 17:52
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power crystals posted:e: to clarify: a lot of this stuff is known pretty well in theory. But nobody's ever actually tried to shoot down an Su-30MK with surface fire before. People that expect to have to face those would love to know details of how it tried to evade incoming shots and how effective it was, especially things like its DECM suite. Russia sure as poo poo doesn't publish that data. "Apparently it goes crazy and turns almost invincible when shot at. Key word almost, but still."
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Apr 30, 2017 17:53
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Night10194 posted:"Apparently it goes crazy and turns almost invincible when shot at. Key word almost, but still." *The General staff roar in approval, applauding*
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Apr 30, 2017 17:57
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Night10194 posted:"Apparently it goes crazy and turns almost invincible when shot at. Key word almost, but still." It actally got hit by 2 missiles. The first had no effect other than making it flash, so we think the russians have figured out hitpoints and i-frames
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Apr 30, 2017 17:58
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Dandywalken posted:No way in hell it's worth that much. In fact, I think folks may be overestimating the value in general. Yeah I doubt we're anywhere near "billions" in worth. Mostly I just want to see the CIA or whomever try to negotiate with us so we can find out how quickly they go insane when faced with this group. Agean90 posted:It actally got hit by 2 missiles. The first had no effect other than making it flash, so we think the russians have figured out hitpoints and i-frames 
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Apr 30, 2017 18:07
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On one hand we could use the European planes. On the other that F-15 is a beast. Voting BFLM so we can get that sweet, sweet F-15.
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Apr 30, 2017 18:09
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Agean90 posted:It actally got hit by 2 missiles. The first had no effect other than making it flash, so we think the russians have figured out hitpoints and i-frames Russians have implemented Dark Souls invincible dodging technology in their fighter jets and this is terrifying.
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Apr 30, 2017 18:09
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K&P What a useful blend of interesting aircraft! Still a hard choice against the might of the F-15 + F-111, and the loving wild recon Mig-25 + lil' botey combo. I do wonder if the Frogfeet might look a little better once there's a damage model with their armor situation. I also think the Jaguars are a good idea for future ASuW use as we expand into naval concerns.
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Apr 30, 2017 18:09
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I like the looks of Jaguars, they are one of my favorite planes in fact, but maybe not what we need right now. I guess I must vote: K&P
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Apr 30, 2017 18:13
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The Sandman posted:
Looks like it didn't get posted there, but I have a link! A MESSAGE FROM THE PRINCE! 
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Apr 30, 2017 18:22
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Neophyte posted:tl:dr We have a giant sub shaped hole in our capabilities and we need to fill it with Romanian seamen ASAP! This actually makes a lot of sense. A naval attack by Angolan surface vessels and landing craft against targets along the coast backed up by, say, a Chinese submarine that launches cruise missiles at Lubango would be.. unpleasant. And even if just a few of the Gripens are busy hunting surface vessels the Goons' CAP would be seriously weakened. That said, apart from the boat the Euro-deal is probably the most effective all-round. The Tornados can carry dedicated (but less effective than the Rb.15s) anti-shipping missiles as well. Yooper, you magnificient bastard. PenguinSalsa fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Apr 30, 2017 |
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Apr 30, 2017 18:25
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Sounds like a good reason for a pre-emptive strike against the Angolan Navy.
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Apr 30, 2017 18:30
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The Sandman posted:Sounds like a good reason for a pre-emptive strike against the Dictator's palace. I agree.
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Apr 30, 2017 18:37
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Cathode Raymond posted:I agree.
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Apr 30, 2017 18:38
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The Sandman posted:I don't. That, we want to loot harder than the British looted the Summer Palace during the Second Opium War, which we can't do if we blow it up. I bet once we get in there it's gonna be a Trump-style, piss-yellow gold-plated-everything garbage king's idea of a palace with nothing but big hunting trophies and grandiose portraits everywhere.
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Apr 30, 2017 18:42
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The Sandman posted:Sounds like a good reason for a pre-emptive strike against Chinese SSBN bases. Not an emptyquote.
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Apr 30, 2017 18:45
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Jimmy4400nav posted:Looks like it didn't get posted there, but I have a link! Huh. I've been so used to megalomaniacal tweets and the madness that is the Free State I didn't expect to hear anything sane from an opponent in this theatre.
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Apr 30, 2017 18:54
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Jimmy4400nav posted:Looks like it didn't get posted there, but I have a link! Nice to actually have, y'know, respectable opponents in this madhouse of a theater. I'm almost sad they're gone. Almost. LostCosmonaut posted:Not an emptyquote. Look man, we already talked about it during the last stream and concluded that China's going to be the final boss anyway. It can wait.
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Apr 30, 2017 18:55
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Dr. Snark posted:Look man, we already talked about it during the last stream and concluded that China's going to be the final boss anyway. It can wait. You say that, but even now their stealth zeppelins circle overhead. We know they are there and we know that they are stealth. We know these things because there's nothing on the radar, which is characteristic of an incoming stealth zeppelin strike.
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Apr 30, 2017 18:59
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Nice of the prince to not hold it against us. I hope we didn't kill all his pilots in their planes.
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Apr 30, 2017 19:00
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Speaking of other PMCs, we haven't heard much about SMARF recently. Do we have any intel on whether they were able to replace some of their losses?
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Apr 30, 2017 19:02
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I was gonna vote for the bote because it is a bote, but apparently it's kind of poo poo so K&P based on the arguments in the thread.
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Apr 30, 2017 19:02
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Cathode Raymond posted:You say that, but even now their stealth zeppelins circle overhead. We know they are there and we know that they are stealth. We know these things because there's nothing on the radar, which is characteristic of an incoming stealth zeppelin strike. Don't forget the submarine supercarrier
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Apr 30, 2017 19:09
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K&P sound good to me.
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Apr 30, 2017 19:13
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Crazycryodude posted:Don't forget the submarine supercarrier Thanks you, yes. We have no reason not to believe that the Chinese may own a noiseless submarine that can deploy many hundreds of aircraft in seconds via some sort of combination of variable geometry aircraft and a tube launching system.
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Apr 30, 2017 19:15
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K&P
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Apr 30, 2017 19:19
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I'm putting my vote in for K&P. Tempting as the Ivanov's package is, I feel that Admiral Croctopus deserves a worthy bote for his magnificence. Kind of like the idea of grabbing a pack of F-20s to expand our forces later (assuming Yooper's willing to allow it), but since the Yanks presently aren't offering any, I'm not really interested in what theyre offering. Hope Bacaruda made it out OK.  Maybe he got smuggled to safety by some of the Count's sympathisers, right?
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Apr 30, 2017 19:22
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K&P is a really good package. Ideally we'd get K&P plus the F-15 but c'est la vie
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Apr 30, 2017 19:26
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Dr. Snark posted:Nice to actually have, y'know, respectable opponents in this madhouse of a theater. I'm almost sad they're gone. Almost. I suspect their sense of honor was their weakness
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Apr 30, 2017 19:27
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Since I don't have a lot of background information on the various planes that we have I decided to put together a write-up of each, including useful information and common payloads. The goal here was more for my own education than anything else, but I wanted to share and get your input so I know what I might have screwed up or if there are other common loadouts I should be looking at. 8 - JAS 39C Gripen : Meteor & SDB Price: $70M Type: Generation 4.9 Multirole (Fighter/Attack) Properties: Terrain Avoidance (300ft/100ft), Fly-by-Wire, Night Navigation, Bombsight - Advanced Navigation (INS/GPS), Probe Refueling Speed: 350/480/580/925 Radar: 120nm (DECM, 120 nm RWR) Common Weapon Payloads A/A Intercept (220 nm): 4x RB 107 Meteor (75 nm) / 2x AIM-2000A (15 nm) Land Standoff Strike (530 nm): 2x AIM-2000A (15 nm) / 8x GBU-39/B SDB (60 nm) Naval Standoff Strike (180 nm): 2x AIM-2000A (15 nm) / 2x RB15F Mk2 (80 nm) / 2x RB 107 Meteor (75 nm) The Gripen is our workhorse, providing flexible multirole capabilities for intercept and standoff strike. 1 - Hawk 209 Price: $14M Type: Generation 3 Attack Properties: Night Navigation, Bombsight - Advanced Computing, Probe Refueling Speed: 280/480/560 Radar: 40 nm (120 nm RWR) Common Weapon Payloads A/A Intercept (130 nm): 4x AIM-9P-4 Sidewinder (10 nm)* Land Strike (150 nm, Limited All-Weather): 2x AIM-9P-4 Sidewinder (10 nm)*, 2x AGM-65G Maverick IR (8nm) *Note: Sidewinder could be swapped for AIM-2000A The Hawk 209 is a light multirole fighter primarily useful for ground attack. 2 - Tornado IDS - Germany Price: $30M Type: Generation 3.5 Attack Properties: Terrain Following (200 / 100), Fly-by-Wire, Night Navigation/Attack, Bombsight - Advanced Navigation (INS/GPS), Probe Refueling Speed: 350/480/580/925 Radar: 40 nm (120 nm RWR) Common Weapon Payloads HARM (820 nm): 2x AIM-2000A (15 nm), 2x AGM-88B HARM (70nm) Land Standoff Strike (650 nm): 2x AIM-2000A (15 nm), 2x Taurus KEPD 350P (180 nm) The Tornado IDS is a long-range attack craft that often forms the backbone of essential strike missions against targets like SAM radars or 2 - Tornado IDS - Saudi Arabia Price: ? Type: Generation 3.5 Attack Properties: Terrain Following (200 / 100), Fly-by-Wire, Night Navigation/Attack, Bombsight - Advanced Navigation (INS/GPS), Probe Refueling Speed: 350/480/580/925 Radar: 40 nm (120 nm RWR) Common Weapon Payloads Land/Naval Standoff Strike (1050 nm): 12x Brimstone (16 nm), 2x AIM-2000A (15 nm) Naval Standoff Strike (950 nm): 2x Sea Eagle (60 nm), 2x AIM-2000A (15 nm) Cruise Missile (825 nm): 2x Storm Shadow (215 nm), 2x AIM-2000A (15 nm) ALARM (950 nm): 2x AIM-2000A (15 nm), 5x ALARM Blk 1 (40 nm) The Saudi version has arguably better toys. 5 - Saab SK60B Price: $1.2M Type: Generation 1 Properties: Bombsight - Ballistic Computing Speed: 250/340/420 Radar: N/A Common Weapon Payloads Rocket (375 nm, Day-Only, Limited All-Weather): 12x M/70 135mm Rocket (2nm) The SK60B is the much maligned ground attack craft that the PMC uses when the skies are safe. The plane has one job; shoot stuff with rockets. Best used against targets that can't shoot back. 6 - F-4E Phantom II - Greek Price: $15M Type: Generation 3.5 Multirole (Fighter/Attack) Properties: Night Navigation (Air-to-Air, Air-to-Surface Missiles), Bombsight - Ballistic Computing, Boom Refueling Speed: 350/480/580/925 Radar: 80 nm (120 nm RWR) Common Weapon Payloads A/A AMRAAM (150 nm): 4x AIM-9L Sidewinder (10 nm)*, 4x AIM-120B AMRAAM (40 nm) Land Strike (450 nm): 2x AIM-120B AMRAAM (40 nm), 2x GBU-10E/B Paveway II LGB (4 nm)m 1x AN/ALQ-119 ECM Pod Bomb Truck (240 nm): 2x AIM-120B AMRAAM (40 nm), 12x Mk82 500lb LDGP (1 nm), 1x AN/ALQ-119 ECM Pod *Note: Sidewinder could be swapped for AIM-2000A The F-4E is a workhorse bomb truck, not ideally suited for air-combat but excellent for delivering a large quantity of munitions to a target in ground support. 1 - SU-25T Frogfoot A Price: $8.5M Type: Generation 3 Attack Properties: Night Navigation (Air-to-Air, Air-to-Surface Missiles), Bombsight - Ballistic Computing, Boom Refuelling Speed: 270/370/520 Radar: ? nm (120 nm RWR, 10 nm Laser Designator, 2 nm Bomb Sight) Common Weapon Payloads Anti-Tank (210 nm): 2x AA-8 Aphid (5 nm), 16x AT-16 Scallion (5 nm) Guided Bomb (200 nm, Day Only, Clear Weather): 2x AA-8 Aphid (5 nm), 4x KAB-500L LGB (4 nm) Another bomb truck, the SU-25 is exclusively intended to deliver a large quantity of short-range munitions to surface targets. It carries no weapons with a range greater than 6 nm. 2 - AMX Price: ? Type: Generation 3 Attack Properties: Fly-by-Wire, Night Navigation (Air-to-Air, Air-to-Surface Missiles), Bombsight - Ballistic Computing, Probe Refueling Speed: 350/480/570 Radar: ? nm (30 nm Infrared, 120 nm RWR) Common Weapon Payloads A/A (150 nm, Day Only, Limited All-Weather): 4x AIM-9L Sidewinder (10 nm)* Counter-Runway (480 nm, Day Only, Limited All-Weather): 2x AIM-9L Sidewinder (10 nm)*, 2x Durandal (1 nm) Guided Missile (510 nm, Day Only, Limited All-Weather): 2x AIM-9L Sidewinder (10 nm)*, 2x AGM-65 Maverick EO (6 nm) Guided Bomb (505 nm, Clear Weather): 2x AIM-9L Sidewinder (10 nm)*, 2x GBU-16B/B Paveway II LGB (4 nm) *Note: Sidewinder could be swapped for AIM-2000A The AMX is a multi-purpose ground attack craft. 2 - Mirage F.1CR Price: ? Type: Generation 4 Attack Properties: Night Navigation (Air-to-Air, Air-to-Surface Missiles), Bombsight - Advanced Computing, Probe Refueling Speed: 350/480/580/925 Radar: 60 nm (5 nm Visual, 120 nm RWR) Common Weapon Payloads A/A (150 nm): 4x R.550 Magic 2 Mk2 (10 nm) Guided Missile (210 nm): 2x R.500 Magic 2 Mk2 (10 nm), 2x AS.30L (6 nm), 1x Barax NG DECM Pod Guided Bomb (275 nm): 2x R.550 Magic 2 Mk2 (10 nm), 2x BGL-400 LGB (4 nm), 1x Barax NG DECM Pod Guided Bomb (350 nm, Day Only, Clear Weather): 2x R.550 Magic 2 Mk2 (10 nm), 4x GBU-12D/B Paveway II LGB (4 nm), 1x Barax NG DECM Pod The Mirage is a flexible ground attack craft that also includes recon capabilities. 1 - EA-6B Prowler Price: $52M Type: Generation 2.5 Electronic Warfare Properties: Night Navigation (Air-to-Air, Air-to-Surface Missiles), Probe Refuelling Speed: 300/415/570 Radar: 150 nm (500 nm ESM) Common Weapon Payloads Short Range Jammer (650 nm): 5x AN/ALQ-991 ECM Pod HARM (550 nm): 1x AGM-88C HARM (70 nm), 4x AN/ALQ-991 ECM Pod Arguably one of the most valuable assets in the company, the Prowler provides crucial jamming support for operations. 1 - Saab S 100B Price: $45M Type: Generation 1 Airborne Early Warning Properties: Night Navigation (Air-to-Air, Air-to-Surface Missiles) Speed: 180/285/350 Radar: 350 nm (500 nm ESM) Range: 780 nm The S 100B provides crucial radar coverage for company operations. 1 - MQ-9 Reaper Price: $32M Type: Generation 1 Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle Properties: Night Navigation (Bomb, Rocket Delivery) Speed: 120/170/260 Radar: 45 nm (15 nm Laser Designator, 100 nm IR/EO) Common Weapon Payloads Strike (1450 nm): 4x AGM-114K Hellfire II (5 nm), 2x GBU-49/B Paveway II (4 nm) Recon (1600 nm): 2x Gorgon Stare Increment 2 Sensor Pod While the Reaper does possess the ability to carry weapons, it's ability to identify targets and provide remote lasing has been proven to be far more useful. 1 - Sperwer UAV Price: $1.5M Type: Generation 1 Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Properties: Night Navigation (Air-to-Air, Air-to-Surface Missiles) Speed: 60/95/100 Radar: 0 nm (30 nm CCD, 30 nm FLIR, 20 nm Laser Rangefinder) Range: 270 nm Generally regarded as disposable (as disposable as a $1.5M asset can be) the Sperwer is a remote recon craft. 1 - C-130E Price: $7M Type: Generation 1Transport Properties: Night Navigation (Air-to-Air, Air-to-Surface Missiles), Boom Refueling Speed: 210/325/350 Radar: 50 nm Payloads 10 Tons Cargo (3600 nm) 16 Tons Cargo (3000 nm) 20 Tons Cargo (2500 nm) The C-130 is a ubiquitous cargo aircraft capable of surviving in nearly any environment. At some point we should strap guns to it. 1 - CN235 Cargo Plane Price: $15M Type: Generation 1Transport Properties: Night Navigation (Air-to-Air, Air-to-Surface Missiles) Speed: 185/245/260 Radar: 35 nm (Weather and Navigation Only) Payloads 4 Tons Cargo (2300 nm) 6 Tons Cargo (2100 nm) We got this to start with otherwise we'd probably have another C-130. 1 - KC-135R Stratotanker Price: $39M Type: Generation 1 Tanker (Air Refueling) Properties: Night Navigation (Air-to-Air, Air-to-Surface Missiles), Wing Drogue, Centerline Boom Speed: 230/480/520 Radar: 40 nm (Weather and Navigation Only) Range: 3900 nm (Tanker) We probably don't want this to blow up. 1 - VC10.K4 Price: ? Type: Generation 1 Tanker (Air Refueling) Properties: Night Navigation (Air-to-Air, Air-to-Surface Missiles), Probe Refueling, Centerline Drogue, Wing Drogue Speed: 230/480/510 Radar: 35 nm (Weather and Navigation Only) Range: 3090 nm (Tanker) Losing this would also be bad. 2 - SA-22 Price: $18M Radar: 30nm (Acquisition), 100 nm (LLTV), 100 nm (IR), 15 nm (Tracking) Weapons: SA-22 Greyhound (10 nm), 30mm 2A38M (1 nm) 2 - ZSU-23-4 Price: $4M Radar: 27 nm Weapons: 23mm ZSU-23-4 Shilka (0.8 nm) 1 - I-HAWK Price: $20M Radar: 45 nm (Radar), 80 nm (Visual) Weapons: MIM-23K- I-HAWK ELM (22 nm) Beer4TheBeerGod fucked around with this message at 04:00 on May 1, 2017 |
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Apr 30, 2017 19:32
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That list is pretty handy, and should probably be in the OP 
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Apr 30, 2017 19:36
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K&P because that bote isn't very good and we need the versatility those Tornadoes provide. I'd love to have that F-15SA, but we're already doing okay on air-to-air stuff thanks to the Meteors our Gripens can carry. It would be nice to have an aircraft that actually has any range whatsoever, though. Our Gripens have the shortest legs known to man, and they can't spend any time out at range. That F-15SA can carry 6 AIM-120Cs, 2 AIM-9Xs, a DECM pod and its Tiger Eyes IRST out to 200nm and spend 210 minutes there on CAP. Our Gripens have such short legs that they don't even have a CAP loadout--the closest equivalent is their A2A max intercept with 4 Meteors and 2 IRIS-T, which lets them go a piddling 220nm out, blow their load, and then immediately return. Dandywalken posted:No way in hell it's worth that much. In fact, I think folks may be overestimating the value in general. Yeah, those Su-30s are decidedly uninteresting. They're not even new enough to carry R-77s, and there are governments friendly to the US that operate newer models. They're definitely not going to score us the $1,800,000,000 - $presumable discount for buying used we'd need to pick up a Burke.
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Apr 30, 2017 19:37
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You've mixed up agility with aircraft generation and the VC.10 K.4 is not a UAV, but the rest looks good.
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Apr 30, 2017 19:47
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Do we want to push the capital next, or surprise the Free State? (I guess the subquestion is, how is the heist doing?)
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Apr 30, 2017 19:47
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K&P Then buy my B1-B.
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Apr 30, 2017 19:48
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Olothreutes posted:K&P I'm fine with being on the SK60B for now, but I want to be on the strategic bomber also when we get one 
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Apr 30, 2017 19:51
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