|
Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:Ugh I hated that book. Because of the story or the overwhelming D.H. Lawrenceness of it all?
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2017 22:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 03:35 |
|
|
Heath posted:Have you been to the one in he converted apartment up above Indigo Rose downtown? He's only open certain days but the whole place is stuffed to the brim with books and the owner will talk your ear off for hours about basically any book. I have! He sold me an old copy of Crime and Punishment. We once sat insinde while it rained and talked about Russian Lit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2017 23:09
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:I have! He sold me an old copy of Crime and Punishment. We once sat insinde while it rained and talked about Russian Lit. He's the reason I'm reading C&P right now. Cool guy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 00:05
|
|
|
Heath posted:He's the reason I'm reading C&P right now. Cool guy. dude loving loves Crime and Punishment. I think he has a crate in the back and just restocks it each time he sells a copy
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 00:15
|
|
|
Sibboleth posted:Because of the story or the overwhelming D.H. Lawrenceness of it all? I hadn't read any other Lawrence but just found him and his story really boring. I can see how it is important for its place in history, though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 01:51
|
|
|
I'm catching up on some classics I missed over the years and I'm reading Madame Bovary now. I'm really enjoying how flawlessly this book is written but I have to say these are the most e/n problems I've read about since The Sorrows of Young Werter. On one hand I know that it's all about the context of the historical period but on the other - from time to time I can't help being taken out of the book's world and wanting to tell this woman to loving decide something instead of this endless chain of passive-aggressive self-pity.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 11:23
|
|
|
i like hamlet but i cant help being taken out of the book's world and wanting to tell him to loving decide something instead of this endless chain of passive-aggressive self-pity
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 16:05
|
|
|
I don't know how that's supposed to be a dig against what I wrote. Is having impressions other than utter awe forbidden when it comes to classics? It's just what comes to my mind when for example Mrs. Bovary abuses her child because her husband isn't the love of her life. This doesn't take away anything from the quality or legacy of the book.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 16:28
|
|
|
Wishing characters were better (morally) than they are is just a bit of a non starter.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 16:44
|
|
|
It can be a good first step to begin to think why is she acting that way, and maybe getting angry at the society or prejudices or w/e instead of the character. That's one of the beauties of Real Lit that most everything has a point and a purpose apart from drawing you in the story, moving the plot and making you identify with the character
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 17:03
|
|
|
Literature is a project of emotion as much as it is logic. You don't have to make the character an intellectual exercise to be "enjoying it" as real literature. It's completely legit to react to the character emotionally. A great character should elicit an emotional response like a real person would. You are not required to identify with a character. You are merely required to empathize with them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 17:54
|
|
|
Yeah, as I wrote I understand the context. I read a lot of real literature and M. Bovary is just one of those shameful blank spots on the map that I finally decided to fill in. It's not supposed to be any sort of critique of the book, just a random thought I wanted to share with what is basically a chat thread. It's not something that has any big influence on my enjoyment of the book either. Talking about even dumb impressions like this was what I liked about the literature class in school (next to more meaningful analysis). I think this little thought is a complement in a way because it means that Flaubert is still getting a real reaction out of me.
Palpek fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Apr 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 18:04
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:Literature is a project of emotion as much as it is logic. You don't have to make the character an intellectual exercise to be "enjoying it" as real literature. It's completely legit to react to the character emotionally. A great character should elicit an emotional response like a real person would. You are not required to identify with a character. You are merely required to empathize with them. I don't think you're required to do anything (and there are great characters that don't elicit an emotional response like any real person would). There are different kinds of literature with different goals, that's why I was talking of one of the beauties of it. I just think that judging a book on a purely emotional level - especially limited to liking/disliking a character - is a bit on a waste, if the book offers something more than that. Palpek's first post sounded a bit like that, which is why it got this reaction. If it's a part of a discussion, that's perfectly cool imo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 18:24
|
|
|
Sorry if my post sounded like I'm dismissing the book's accomplishments, it was not my goal.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 18:32
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:Literature is a project of emotion as much as it is logic. You don't have to make the character an intellectual exercise to be "enjoying it" as real literature. It's completely legit to react to the character emotionally. A great character should elicit an emotional response like a real person would. You are not required to identify with a character. You are merely required to empathize with them. Quite so. But maybe this is where the unfortunate habit of reading the classics as a Very Serious Intellectual Feat (rather than reading them for their artistic value and/or because they are enjoyable) inevitably leads us.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 19:03
|
|
|
i think part of the book's aims is to present a character whose reprehensibility is understandable because she emerges out of a childhood soaked with romanticism into The Real World, feels all that sweet sweet ennui for her lack of a world of courtship drama, love affairs, grandiose expressions, profound truths, and infinite wealth and in the process of arranging her life according to these principles ruins herself, her husband, and their child. considering its fierce, almost combative realist mode and the sympathy it still offers to emma (calling the novel madame bovary offers, i think, some amount of reconciliation between the reader and emma since she is the third madame bovary to feature in the novel after charles' mom and his first wife - she's hosed from the start, her narrative is still book ended by charles) i think flaubert wrote the book with an eye for a dissonant reader's experience.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 19:11
|
|
|
Palpek posted:Yeah, as I wrote I understand the context. I read a lot of real literature and M. Bovary is just one of those shameful blank spots on the map that I finally decided to fill in. It's not supposed to be any sort of critique of the book, just a random thought I wanted to share with what is basically a chat thread. It's not something that has any big influence on my enjoyment of the book either. Talking about even dumb impressions like this was what I liked about the literature class in school (next to more meaningful analysis). I think this little thought is a complement in a way because it means that Flaubert is still getting a real reaction out of me. I was defending your reading of the story, not criticizing it. Sorry if that was ambiguous.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 19:20
|
|
|
that book stinks
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
What have you got against Madame Bovary Het?
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 21:08
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:I have! He sold me an old copy of Crime and Punishment. We once sat insinde while it rained and talked about Russian Lit. Heath posted:He's the reason I'm reading C&P right now. Cool guy. Spoiler alert if you aren't halfway done with the book yet: Marmeladov's death had my eyes watering, it's such an incredible scene.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2017 23:09
|
|
|
There were parts of that book that were funny but after a long while I couldn't bring myself to care about her dumb problems anymore
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 01:41
|
|
|
I'm reading Count of Monte Cristo right now and loving it. I wound up with an abridged version (Bantam pub), abridged by Lowell Bair. I've been told the unabridged Robin Buss version is the best edition of the novel and I'm considering picking it up. I'm only 76 pages into the abridged version so far. Should I pick up the unabridged version and pick up where I left off, or will I miss details previously mentioned in the unabridged version? Or should I just start from the beginning of the unabridged version?  SPOILER Here's where I am in the plot: Dante has literally just discovered the treasure on the isle.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 21:28
|
|
|
Quit Being a loving Child and Read the Unabridged Version
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 22:48
|
|
|
at the date posted:Quit Being a loving Child and Read the Unabridged Version
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 00:58
|
|
|
i'm reading CivilWarLand in Bad Decline and it's excellent
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 05:35
|
|
|
me your dad posted:I'm reading Count of Monte Cristo right now and loving it. I wound up with an abridged version (Bantam pub), abridged by Lowell Bair. I've been told the unabridged Robin Buss version is the best edition of the novel and I'm considering picking it up. That doesn't happen until page 230ish in the Robin Buss version, to give you an idea of how much is missing. also iirc buss says in his intro that all other english translations, including abridged versions, are based on old early 20th century translations that take some liberties with the text.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 07:00
|
|
|
i think george saunders is dril
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 16:30
|
|
|
chernobyl kinsman posted:i think george saunders is dril I came to this here town with seven dolers stitched in of my panse and do not intend to go any drat plase until someone tell me where in Hel is my dolers
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 19:39
|
|
|
Anyone have a recommendation for a French author or two who use really stripped-down prose? I'm trying to slowly re-learn all the poo poo I forgot in school and I figured reading some stuff in French is probably as close as I'm going to get to immersion anytime soon. I'm at a super basic level right now so ideally I'm looking for something that isn't too long or full of complicated grammar structures, etc.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 04:12
|
|
|
Grizzled Patriarch posted:Anyone have a recommendation for a French author or two who use really stripped-down prose? I'm trying to slowly re-learn all the poo poo I forgot in school and I figured reading some stuff in French is probably as close as I'm going to get to immersion anytime soon. I'm at a super basic level right now so ideally I'm looking for something that isn't too long or full of complicated grammar structures, etc. Seconded. I'm at children's book level but I'd love to go ahead and get a few ideas!
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 04:52
|
|
|
Camus and Beckett are always a go-to.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 06:28
|
|
|
I remember struggling with Beckett's prose in English a few years ago, don't know if it's a good fit for somebody at a children's book level, although I might've had problems with some specific aspect of it. I'd add Sartre and Modiano - his was one of the first adult books I read fully in Catalan. Which reminds me, that I suggest trying translations, as they tend to flatten the language a bit. Maybe even a translation from English of somebody whose stuff you know quite well. At least that's what helped me v  v
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 06:54
|
|
|
learn your french from hergé and dumas like everybody else
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 06:57
|
|
|
Burning Rain posted:I remember struggling with Beckett's prose in English a few years ago, don't know if it's a good fit for somebody at a children's book level, although I might've had problems with some specific aspect of it. I think Beckett is harder in English than French, but I was thinking of his plays. Definitely not suggesting L'Innommable or anything.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 08:31
|
|
|
Patrick Modiano is very terse and precise in his language
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 12:31
|
|
|
Grizzled Patriarch posted:Anyone have a recommendation for a French author or two who use really stripped-down prose? I'm trying to slowly re-learn all the poo poo I forgot in school and I figured reading some stuff in French is probably as close as I'm going to get to immersion anytime soon. I'm at a super basic level right now so ideally I'm looking for something that isn't too long or full of complicated grammar structures, etc. Poetry not prose but Jacques Prevert might be up your alley
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 23:22
|
|
|
Grizzled Patriarch posted:Anyone have a recommendation for a French author or two who use really stripped-down prose? I'm trying to slowly re-learn all the poo poo I forgot in school and I figured reading some stuff in French is probably as close as I'm going to get to immersion anytime soon. I'm at a super basic level right now so ideally I'm looking for something that isn't too long or full of complicated grammar structures, etc. After the intro class I took, I taught myself French using Le Petit Prince, Le Sabotage Amoreux by Amelie Nothomb, and Contes de la Bécasse by Guy de Maupassant. None of them are especially complex. Le Petit Prince is a children's book and a staple of many French classes, Nothomb writes in a contemporary style using ordinary vocabulary, and this edition of Maupassant has nice big print and plenty of room for note-taking.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 23:32
|
|
|
Holy poo poo, thank you guys for all for the great recommendations! Going to see if my library happens to have any of them in the foreign language section.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 03:16
|
|
|
yeah, Nothomb is a great suggestion for learning the language
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 07:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 03:35 |
|
|
Definitely seconding Tintin and Astérix, comics are great for language learning.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2017 10:25
|
|
